The Startup CPG Podcast

BJ McCaslin
Water space. For me it is, I feel like regardless of how successful the concept is fiscally, this year, next year, the year after, this brand is going to do great things. It's going to help people, it's going to get you a better night's sleep, it's going to get your gut healthier, it's going to put you in a mindset that you don't need to have that 15 tall boy. It's going help you focus to get through that day. And that to me is, I know again it's cliche but that at the end of the day is why you do it, right? You don't just do it because you're going to run up a 2 billion dollar deal, but at the end of the day we do this because we want to make a great product for people.

00:45
BJ McCaslin
So, you know, support us to try it. That's the biggest thing.

00:50
Grace Kennedy
Hello Startup CPG listeners, this is Grace and I'm here with another founder feature. Today I'm interviewing BJ McCaslin, the co founder of Holy Water. Holy Water and wellness brands that creates multiple beverages to solve used occasions throughout the day like Hydration Focus Performance and non alcoholic social tonics. BJ is an industry veteran with over 20 years in the beverage space. We talk all about where he sees the functional non alcoholic category going, how he sees Holy Water fitting in and why he believes that human capital is the most important component to success. I loved this interview and as always, let me know what you think. Hello everyone and welcome back to the Startup CPG podcast. This is Grace and today I am joined by BJ McCaslin, the co founder of Holy Water. Welcome to the show, bj.

01:52
BJ McCaslin
Thank you Grace. I appreciate you having me.

01:54
Grace Kennedy
Yes. So excited to have you here. And for our listeners, BJ is repping a hat that is representing the brand Holy Water. So I'm, I'd love for you to let our listeners know. Who is Holy Water?

02:05
BJ McCaslin
I love it. Fresh off the Startup CPG section at Expo West. That's how I actually booked this date. Super exciting. We love the inclusion in Startup cpg. It's just an amazing platform. Getting on there every day and clicking through what people are talking about. It's inspiring, it's motivating and super informational. So Holy Water, it's a culmination of really the things that I love. Right. We say your health is sacred, so drink Holy water. I've been a beverage and hospitality entrepreneur since 2004. I opened my first restaurant when I was 21 and four or five years later, I learned how to fail with a family project. And then I sold a company to Vita Coco. After I launched it, 60 days later, I sold it to Vita Coco. Yeah.

02:46
BJ McCaslin
So holy water has been something that I've been brewing up literally in my mind for the past 15 years. We utilize the best ingredients, and we create skus that solve numerous use occasions in your life throughout your day. So we have a hydration skew, we have a performance skew recovery. We have a focus skew, and then we also have non alcoholic social tonics. So we are partnered with Live nation as a live vendor. We're sold as a mocktail on premise, and then we're a functional beverage in the grocery channel and independent C stores. So we utilize something really unique. My partner is a biochemist, PhD, and my other partner, Jasmine, is a hustler. What we do is we utilize this ketone molecule. So there's only four brands in the world that are using this molecule.

03:33
BJ McCaslin
Either it's beta hydroxybutyrate, known as BHB, or it's R13 butane dial. And that is 10 grams of that each can. So an enormous amount of an effective ingredient. Right. When you look at the top people in our lane that are really dope brands that I love and that are crushing it, their max is like four or five, six grams. Some are two grams. Right. This one ingredient per can is 10 grams. And then we layer on with that ketone, functional mushrooms, and then also nootropics. So that's kind of like our holy grail is those three items. And then what we do in each skew is we create another specific aspect of a formula. So our focus skew has gotu cola, ginkgo, bilboba, all these really cool things. Our performance skew has creatine in it. Our non alk has the hemp in it.

04:20
BJ McCaslin
So we really canvas and have scoured every great ingredient, and we put them into these cans. And so I love it. It's funny because the ingredients we use taste terrible. And so it's taken me so long to create this flavor profile. I finished one in like a year. I'm going on a year now to finish the other two SKUs and then the other one's been out. So we'll have the whole portfolio out probably early May. And we're stoked. We're just launching retail. We're like a year old now, right. And we've been in business since really selling the product in July. But we came out with Our first non in March of last year.

04:52
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, so exciting. And I think first tried your product actually last summer when you guys were just launching, I think in July at Fancy Foods. Your co founder Jasmine brought some of the product to our party and it was like the perfect thing to have after we'd been on our feet, tired all day. Didn't necessarily want an alcoholic beverage at this party and so she brought all the holy water. And it was like such a big hit among our crew of start of TPG people. But also just generally was a hit and so it was the perfect addition there, but really exciting. And I'm curious, how do you develop these skus so that you can mask the flavor while also not adding in? Cause I hear sometimes people just mask it, right? With a bunch of shit and sugar and X, Y, Z.

05:35
Grace Kennedy
And so how do you go about the development process to retain the high quality ingredients you're talking about while also masking maybe some of these flavors that are not as desirable?

05:47
BJ McCaslin
I'm lucky. That's how I got in the industry. This like, these are some R and D samples I received this morning. It's really cool to be able to work with the food scientists and to work at bench and I love that process and anything I do, I really try to make myself an expert, right? So I really try to go deep and be a sponge and learn from the people around me. And so utilizing these ingredients, understanding the biggest thing is like your sweetener system, right? What are you gonna sweeten it with? And is it gonna be sugar? Then how many grams of sugar is it gonna be juice? Well, how many grams of sugar derived from the juice? Is it monk fruit stevia allulose, erythritol sucralose. So that's where I really start.

06:25
BJ McCaslin
It's like, okay, here's a flavor profile, here's how much sugar I want. And then do I wanna add a real juice to it? And then, okay, now where is the PH need to be? So it does get technical. I'm not that educated. I went to college and I played football. I was a backup quarterback at Kentucky and I mastered in political science. So really the understanding of what goes on, when you start talking about bricks and ph levels, it really, it's over my head. But that's why I work with flavor scientists. I have a great group, I have numerous people. I work with Paula, I work with Laron Dunn, I work with a lot of good people in the industry. So we start with that and then we just iterate. I'm actually Flying to Fort Walton on Friday. I'm helping a friend.

07:04
BJ McCaslin
I'm making him a coffee. His brand's called beach weekend. So we're trying them all in one sitting, and we'll be done with it. And so that's the same thing. That's the sentiment I bring into what I do with holy water. And you want to make sure they're great skus, right? It's funny, because a distributor just turned me down yesterday after, like, eight months, and they, like, literally made that so personal for my employer that, like, man, I took it to everybody, and everybody hated it, right? And I was like, bro, you've had this thing for eight months. Like, you couldn't have told me this in eight days or eight weeks? You were 70 years when the Dodgers won the super bowl and all that. I know they don't hold super bowl. And I was just like, what are we doing?

07:37
BJ McCaslin
And he's like, I really put my job on the line here. And I was just like, okay, man. I just sent him back a meme like, thank you. Hopefully we can work together in the future. But that's a big distributor, too, so it's like. And they sell a ton of health and wellness products, and it's in a market that is very predominant for health and wellness. So it's funny to see how some people take it. And then it's also great to see that you know what you're doing is effective and you know that you're doing the right thing. I love what's going on, like, with Poppy. My friend Ruby ran Poppy and Chris. And I love what's going on around the culture with, like, popkin and lemon. Perfect. And obviously, my colleagues back at Viacoco, I love flavor. My chihuahuas love flavor.

08:14
BJ McCaslin
But I know at the end of the day, I love health, and I love efficiency, and that's effectiveness. And so these drinks that we make, yeah, we put a lot into them. 17 grams of effective ingredients, and it tastes like shit until we make it taste good. And then that's really come out with it. That's why the first skew took me a year. This next one, I'm almost done with the other two SKUs. They're literally, like, perfect. But I want them to be amazing. I want you to taste them and be like, wow. Because some people try the ketone ingredient on. Its owner is a huge complimenting brand that we have in the space, and we love them. And the guy who runs it is so dope, and his energy is amazing. And we're friends with Them and it's a gnarly molecule. Right.

08:48
BJ McCaslin
And we all know the taste, but it's so effective. So that's what's really cool. We'll never stop using it. I was going to even use the one that it's paraxanthium or something like that and it's a caffeine derivative. But it was so gross. When I was making my skews, I was like, I'm working with so much other stuff. Just get this thing out of here. This thing is too hard. Yeah. I love the process. I wish it would be a little bit more smooth sometimes, but it is the labor of love.

09:11
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, totally. So I'm curious. You mentioned this long journey with this distributor who didn't end up working out, but it sounds like you have obviously partnered with Live Nation and how have you approached these conversations with possible retail locations or partnerships like Alive Nation, which seems like a perfect partnership for a brand like Holy Water. Like how have those conversations gone for you?

09:33
BJ McCaslin
Yeah, really. My track record, my past. I had a previous relationship with some folks at Live Nation and that's how we got into that parlay. Even from Coca Cola. He's an investor. He's on our board. Really? Khe Christina Schmidt from Kahi. She is a godsend. She is a heck of a woman. But even like I reached out to Eve and she runs canteen and she's like, send me some samples and I look and she literally sends me an address three houses down from mine. And I was like, you my neighbor, like, so a lot of it is in with startup CPG. I'm coming out to your guys grocery run in NorCal in two weeks. It is just effort. Right? So having breaks like Christina from Khe and they're new at Kahe program KE is the most amazing distributor.

10:14
BJ McCaslin
Their team and their resources are above and beyond. We just brought on a broker so that broker partner as well is somebody that we have to lean on. But I'm aggressive like the range me guys are amazing veer and they're really awesome guys. So you have to lean into all these tools. You have to lean into your past. You have to be pleasantly persistent and just knock on doors and that's even how I sell. It's like if you need it right now because I know it's an emerging category and I know my complimentary brands in the space that have crushed it like hi o who I love in parch and kin and desoi who I compliment on the non outside of things like they deserve this time. They put in the work, they've spent the money.

10:51
BJ McCaslin
And my complimenting brands like Ketone iq, they've done the same thing. So we're happy to be in the conversation with them. They lead the category and that's kind of how we want to go about it. Like I was telling a buyer From Costco at SoCal, he's like, we're going to do a roadshow for Holy Water coming up in Los Angeles and Costco. And I was telling another buyer about I would love to be in the region. And he was talking about complimenting brand running. And I was like, man, I love that brand. That is the best brand to start off with right now because it's going to solidify the liquid, the lips, the consumers are going to love it. And he was like, man, this is so refreshing to hear you speak highly about other brands.

11:26
BJ McCaslin
I just sold a wine company to a private Equity office in 22, and that's such an aggressive space and everybody dislike each other. The distributors were so aggressive every day. And I'm an aggressive person in general. If you ask anybody, they call me Baby Jesus, but I'm an aggressive Baby Jesus. So for me to be able to get into a space where. Now, I know this is going to sound cliche, but I think it stems from startup cpg. I really do. I mean, the way that you guys have made all CPG folks approach this from a place of community and feeling each other's pain and understanding the struggle and uplifting each other. We didn't have that when I started and it was a very less saturated category, but now it's so saturated.

12:06
BJ McCaslin
Everybody looks at each other as competition and it is because there's only so much shelf space in a four foot set. But at the end of the day, you earn your right to be there by following up with the people and doing what you need to do. And again, it all starts D2C too. So we put a lot of time into D2C. We've hired some agencies and blown a ton of dough and they'd done nothing, even though they do great for other brands. And then I look back at, okay, well what did we do wrong in that partnership, right? How did we map ourselves well and what are we accountable for? And let's go back to the drawing board and make that happen again. So it's a mix, right?

12:35
BJ McCaslin
A lot of D2C, a lot of blessings from people like Christine McKay and then a lot of opportunity. And ECRM is great because they're doing these one off meetings and then you Guys have these grocery runs, so the more you can put your product in front of people. Darren at Bristol Farms, that guy's a godsend too, right? We went up there and he's the first retailer to put us in. Ephraim and Zara High touch the distribution. So when you get a few small people that are early adopters to take you on, that's where the love starts. And if you don't have that, it's tough because I know it's such a tough competing role. What's your anchor account? Right. Hey, you can't start the business. Can't get distribution without an account. But I can't get into your account without distribution.

13:12
BJ McCaslin
So where do you want me to start? This is expensive. You're never going to make money shipping water around.

13:17
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, totally. And I've heard that from so many beverage brands that DDC is just like so hard to make profitable or worth it in any way. I'm curious where you see, you know, we do see a lot of emerging brands in this category of these like functional non alcoholic options for events like Live Nation does and also just people's lives in general. And I'm curious where you feel like you see the category going and how you see holy water being a part of that.

13:43
BJ McCaslin
I mean, look, that's why when I was leaving the wine project, this is what I told them to do, right? I said, let's make this high margin shot that's small that we can ship online and it's effective. And that's why I have a shot that is 87% margin and it's super effective with the ketones, nootropics, functional mushrooms, a little bit of the hemp. But we're going to do that in a can now because it's more sessionable. But we're going to do a healthy shot instead of the hemp shot because you see that. I was like, how messed up am I going to get? So I'm at Bill's house yesterday, Bill Wyland's, right? The Bellagio. And all the platform guys are there looking fitted and working out and killing me in ping pong. And I'm just like having a few beers.

14:22
BJ McCaslin
I love to have a few beers and talking to Josh Tapeman and he's like, I really don't drink. And I was like, yeah, you do. And he's like, no, I really don't. I was like, wow, okay. So that is really the movement and Josh is super young. I remember buying Josh's product on Virgin Air eboost in like 2013, the first time I flew to see Bite of Coco in New York on a red aisle. And for someone like that who's been in the industry for so long now, you know, he's probably in his mid-40s and he's just like, he looks great. It's like, what's the point of drinking? And that's really where it's moving. And then folks that are younger than us, they're in the same sort of sentiment, right? There is a ton of people who drink still, including me.

14:58
BJ McCaslin
That's where the thought really hit me. I was actually at a Grateful Dead show. They sell some CBD at Wrigley Field and everyone's drinking their tall boys and you're having your substance of choice. And I'm looking out and I don't need another tall boy. Right. But I want to continue to drink something and so I want to feel something. And so that's where holy water came in. It's like, let's put this in your body because not only is it going to help you right now, but it's going to help you while you sleep. It's going to help you tomorrow. So we have like Laird Hamilton and Gabby Reese. They buy the brand from us and they're like, this is one of the best brands out there. We love what you do. It helps us sleep, it gives us energy.

15:32
BJ McCaslin
They're on subscription, they're really good friends, they're super dope. And they really helped my last company too. So they're amazing people in the industry. And that's really what it's about for us is seeing people like that who are the early adopters, who are also the stakeholders, like Josh, like Gabby, who aren't imbibing with wine and beer at night and they want to still be social. And so that's why this non alcoholic play for us was really ideal because I said, okay, I can't compete with water at these venues, right. Because they all have a water contract. And then I can't CSD or I can't be an energy drink. And so a mocktail was a great place for me to land. And then I want to make people feel something and I want to solve it. Something that people need and that's hydration.

16:12
BJ McCaslin
And then even like right now, I don't have my focus ski. But that's what I would take before this, right? Because when I played ball, I would always drink a Red Bull. Right. And then a halftime, I drink a Red Bull.

16:20
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, it makes total sense. And I Think that's where I am as a consumer myself as well is I'm not completely sober, but definitely there are times at events where I want to like not have another alcoholic drink or start with a non alcoholic drink. Like just the other night at a dinner party I was at, there was both Ghia or Gia. Don't know how to say it. Like non alcoholic. Yeah, Spritz. And there is wine. And so I decide, okay, now I want to have the non elk option and now I want wine. And like, having those options feels really great for consumers like me or also for completely sober consumers. And so it's exciting to see that's where the industry is going.

16:57
Grace Kennedy
I'm curious, as you've been having conversations with both consumers and like retailers, distributors, things like that, like even at an Expo west, for example, what's been kind of the response from those in the industry? Like, are they seeing the growth of this space as much as so many of the consumers or like creators like yourself are?

17:17
BJ McCaslin
When you look at the leading brands like hi, who's the top dog and Ken Parts and Desoi, who I love, they are crushing it. And the retailers are doing a great job coming around to understanding where these drinks belong in store, right? Because there is no set. There's still not a functional set. There's rtd, coffee, soda, protein, things like that, enhanced water. And. And then now it's like, okay, well where does a functional drink go? It goes in a cooler, but where does it go? On the shelf, right? Where's the mop? And then for the non oc, it's like, oh, well, let's just all put them in the non ox section. And that's tough too because now that's like the canned wine set that I was just in, convenient wine. And you're putting it into that mixer set.

17:57
BJ McCaslin
And are those people going and looking for that over there or where are they shopping in the store? So I shop at high ends, one of the most beautiful stores. And Matt Shelley is an amazing buyer out of Ohio. And they kill. Recess is probably the number 12 with hi. Oh, and like they crush, right? They're doing the right thing. He's promoting it in the best way with these end caps in center store. So it's all about getting it in front of the consumers. And then the education. The education is massive and it's a huge hurdle for us. That's why what we sell is hydration. We sell focus, we sell performance, we sell non alk. When you start looking at my can you're going to be like, what is R1 3 butane dial? Right. What is this stuff? What is L Alani?

18:34
BJ McCaslin
What is schizandria berry? What's Chaga? And then obviously making sure that you can get in front of people and talk to them. Because our industry knows and that's what I tell everybody. Right? Like our industry knows what holy water is. They know us as founders. I've been in the game since 2004. They know us as what our ingredients do. But then we have to be able to educate the buyer. And the buyer is getting to that place where the buyer knows now. But then who doesn't know is still the customer. The customer has no idea. So it's still like what's the prettiest can? Or what did I see on Instagram? Or what did Jane tell me about? Right.

19:06
BJ McCaslin
So it's still that same amount of marketing and then getting into a level of obviously Amazon's a great place to start because people are, they trust what they're buying off of Amazon and it's simple for them to make that transaction. So the more difficult we make it for them to transact, the harder it is for them to get liquid lips and for us to get stomach share. So that's why being in beverage businesses are so expensive, they're easy to get into and that's why you see so many entrants because it's a low cost there, a low barrier of entrance but then it's hard to maintain. Right. It's a minimum of the year if you're trying to do things on a large scale.

19:40
Grace Kennedy
What do you prioritize when it is such a high cost game with beverage in terms of the marketing and all these things like how do you prioritize where to put your dollars and what feels most important, particularly where you are now a little more than a year in, I guess or a little less than a year.

19:57
BJ McCaslin
Yeah, for me it's humans. Right. Human capital is huge for me. I have a great team with Jeremy, Jasmine, Travis Wilkerson. He's from Uptime. He started from the bottom in his business. I've got a great team that I outsource for D2C right now with Austin and Hannah and Leon. My wife's are a fractional cmo. So it's really the people working with the people that we have and in brokerage then investing in our distributors. That's where I start with it. We have a great Anheuser Busch distributor, Jack Hilliard in Texas and if we can invest in their People invest in our people. Then we know at the end of the day we're doing the right thing. And that's why it's funny, when that last distributor just told me that I was like my soul sucked.

20:34
BJ McCaslin
It's like, bro, this guy knows me for years and he knows best friends of my best friend. And I'm just like, bro, like we would have invested so much into your distributor and into your people because that's really what we're about. And I'm a very cerebral individual. So this is a tough business to be in and I want to make you at least like your job and like who you're working with. You don't work for me ever. We all work together. So the fact that we can get our team positive and then if you're talking about we have to go D2C we have to focus on our D2C metrics. That's really where we're investing our time right now. And again our shot's small. So we make money on the shot but people buy more of the cans.

21:10
BJ McCaslin
So it's a cost loss that shots in about a thousand C stores also. So you talk about how we execute Rep Rally is a really cool these drop ship agencies that we work with rep rally, fair airgoods again that to me all still folds in the D2C and then it's invest in DSD right. Khe and my Anheuser Busch. But grow slow, go methodically, go deep. The retailers that you're in put a lot of opportunity. We're going to work with a guy, Greg Lake, he's an amazing dude. He really started Poppy and their awareness. So really get with people that have, I would say passion for getting our brand and our messaging out there. So again starting with people but then going into the trade spend D2C and then obviously promotional pricing is big. So people want to buy your drink.

21:52
BJ McCaslin
My drink everyday low price is like349,399. That's a high entry rate for somebody to go pick up. Right? You do a lot with $5. So for me but then when you look at like it's a coffee, I go get my flat white every morning and it's still six bucks. Right. And my drink is so much more effective than 90 milligrams of Cappy. Right. Some milk. So that's where you also have to put it into your mind is that I've always done this. I've always taken the ethos of I've used the best ingredients possible. You might canned wine, I would buy. Everyone else buys jug wine orange wine. That's like the gnarliest, grossest stuff, right? Three cents a gallon. And it's like, for me, I bought $12, 18 gallons of wine. And that's the same thing I do here is I buy real juice.

22:34
BJ McCaslin
We buy this R13 butane, dial all these really great mushroom extracts, all these nootropics, all these vitamins. And we know if we're putting great things in the can, at the end of the day, we're going to win. We're going to make people feel well. And that's the thing. When people buy our drink, we get consistent velocity. We have returning buyers. And that's how you know that the project has validity, that you're getting each sales right. So that's the biggest thing too, as an entrepreneur in this game is like, you can't force the idea to be relevant because you're passionate about it, just because you like what you're doing. If the consumers are giving you that feedback and that response and you're not seeing it through velocity, then you need to change or you need to stop doing it right.

23:12
BJ McCaslin
I take calls all the time from folks in the beverage business about, hey, can you do this? I actually mentor folks formally at an online entrepreneurial university, and I teach people how to build beverage companies. And I tell them straight up, like, hey, it's a labor of love and you gotta love what you're doing, but you're not gonna make any dough. A long time, like, year. I think I made 22k right, in like the first 18 months. 22k, like, that's not even livable, man. Like, my taxes on my home are 26,000. When you start talking about, is this a viable business to be in for you, a lot of the time, the answer is no. And you can't get to a place where you see the validation and get through these hurdles. That to me, it's like a game.

23:52
BJ McCaslin
It's like, okay, can I get to the next step? Even getting investment dollars is very difficult. And I have a great track record. I'm like three out of four, three out of five. I know the best people in the business like Ken Sadowski and Joshua and the GM Uzis, and they're all amazing. But it's like, we love what you do and Noah Bremen. But it's like, bro, you gotta prove this right, just because we like you and we love Jasmine and think Jeremy's cool and we love the can. Like, you gotta go make it happen. And if you don't make it happen. Then there's no reason to take my good money and put it against a bad group of people executing it. So that's what we've done. We banged our head against the wall. We've made it happen.

24:26
BJ McCaslin
I think we've redone our website about 15 times. So we're finally getting to a place where our website's gonna be relaunched again for the 10th time. So we're excited about that. And then the D2C space has really taken off for us and now finally moving forward with retail as our next step.

24:41
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, I was just thinking of as you're talking about how you're spending money and all these things. I was thinking about another expensive area, which is a trade show like Expo west, which you guys were just at, and retail, as you were saying, sort of being the next step. How did you approach Expo west and how did it go for you guys?

25:00
BJ McCaslin
It went great. I mean, and again, the only reason we did it was because we could afford it with startup cpg. So the cost that startup had was less than the cost it was for them to bring our pallet out of the back to the boot. Yeah, our biggest thing was liquid ellipse full cans. We brought a pallet. 104 cases gave out. Every single can just charged hard. I had my partners from Latin America and I had like six of them in, were really funded very well from a couple of groups in Latin America right now. So that's where our ties are at. They were super impressed and they're just like, how do you keep this energy? And I was like, we all. We got my phrase.

25:30
BJ McCaslin
And I'm like, that's all we have to like, who else is going to do it if we're not? So the amazing event, Daniel and the CPG team, it was well positioned and we had great traffic, so met a ton of amazing people. Reiterated to a lot of the people we've been meeting with that were. Were doing the right things. And it's just funny, right? You run into like the head whole food buyer and then you had to run into the head of the Wegmans buyer and you run into the people that you aspire to get your product in front of them at some point. And the fact that you can do that all in a matter of 72 hours, it's massive. And that you can get liquid the lips.

26:01
BJ McCaslin
I stopped Gary Vee and I gave Gary Vee a can I see your name tag? And I know your name, right? I'm coming for you. So it Was cool to be able to execute it. And those are always super nostalgic and community building. And there's so many great events around it, right? Like the family fund had an amazing event. The next day, Gianuzi had an amazing event. And just to see everyone in one place at the same time. I love that I actually took my family and the baby with us and I think I spent a lot of time with them out there. But nice to have their support and just to see all the people in our industry at the same time. You get to see a lot of old colleagues too. That cauliflower dill pickle pizza was the best thing out there.

26:35
BJ McCaslin
Then what's great, I had never really noticed. I've done Expo a few times, but it was always with Vita Coco. So it was always a bigger scene for me. So to be able to do it with my own brand and be small, like literally it's a backdrop and a table and a pallet of product. Like, you know, we just gave out cold cans and a couple barrel coolers and we read it like, I run my restaurants, right? Like just keep backstock cold, move it to the front, keep putting cans on ice. So.

26:58
BJ McCaslin
And what's cool again is that CPG community, like leisure and like the girls from the tea company that were across from us and the gummy person next to us and the cookie lady next to us and twisted alchemy, it was just a really cool again, I really credit startup CPG with giving me some calm in the space all the time.

27:15
Grace Kennedy
Yes, it can definitely be a very chaotic and busy event. So I'm glad that the sort of CPG section, you know, gave you a little calm. I'm curious too. You've done Expo a couple times. For people who maybe have never gone to Expo before or even any big trade show and are thinking about exhibiting or even just walking the show with samples. Do you have any advice for how to gear up for your first time at one of these big trade shows?

27:40
BJ McCaslin
It's like you got to figure it out. I see people walk the floor and I've walked the floor of shows sometimes and I think that's aggressive. But you guys had meetings that were set up range, we had meetings that you could set up and that was really cool. The one one piece. If I don't have like my own food in the fridge, I'm not going to eat anybody's food. Right. I'm like that kind of person. So I don't like selling from in the aisle. I don't like Going up and coming out from walking the show. And I know it's a more cost effective way, so I don't knock it, but it's just, I don't like it because I know how much your energy is to behind that line and then you project so many people.

28:13
BJ McCaslin
So with regard to exhibiting, you always got to make sure that you're confident you're going to get at least one sale that pays for the show. Right? That's always my mentality is if you're going to spend some dough, like at least know that you have to get one anchor out of that show and then when you do. And that to me, is really where that's my goal. It still is. It always has been. My dad started taking me to trade shows when I was like 14 years old and I collected money from him for his company selling sports memorabilia. And it was like, that was always his advice to me too, was like, just pay for the show. And so then when you do that, you're like, okay, now I can stack another one with the confidence that I'm in.

28:47
BJ McCaslin
But I really like what you guys do with these smaller opportunities where you have all these buyers coming. And it is. That's the key right now is getting in front of the busy buyer. And you know, I've never used brokers before because I'm really pleasantly persistent. I could email you all day, every day, just for fun. Actually, I just reminded myself I got to email a guy right when we get off this call. And I'm gonna do it every day. I'm gonna do it three times a day, and I'm gonna be very nice to you about it. And I'm gonna say thank you and I hope to see you soon. And please do what we are all here to do to bring great products to the amazing consumers and better healthy for you products. Like that's my thing too, is I'm not like a.

29:24
BJ McCaslin
I don't think I'm an elitist at all. I'm always for the masses, right? And that's always what Laird says. It made things for the masses, not the classes. And it's like, I know what our product is, I know how effective it is, I know what we put in it. And then I do see some other brands out there, not the complimenting brands I've seen said about, but I do see people that just want to get into the business because they think it's sexy and they want to make money, even if it's a snack or whatever. And I get that. But at the end of the day, like, our bodies are evolving in a way in this world that we need to fuel them with the right stuff.

29:55
BJ McCaslin
And it's just too long when you start looking at why our parents are sick and what's going on, what disease and sicknesses in our generations. I'm 42. It's because of what we consumed, right? Our food is killing us. It's not because you live by power lines or things like that, because of what we're eating. And that's why I know it's super critical for me as a maker to put forth the best possible product I can. And then from there, really work hard to make sure that I find my tribe, find people that love it, and then build within them. Human capital to me is the most important thing. Build within your consumers who champion you and give you that energy to keep moving forward every day.

30:31
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, I love that and I loved how you said you prioritize human capital because I think that is so important and can get lost sometimes when we're thinking about, like, how to save money or how to do things like, well, I don't need that person. Like, we all need people and we all need connections and humans to help us and nobody has all the answers. So I love that's a priority for you and for Holy Water. So, yeah, well, as we're coming up on the end of our time chatting, I always like to ask, you know, like, how can our listeners and the startup CP community support Holy Water and follow along on the journey?

31:06
BJ McCaslin
I love that. I appreciate it. The same thing we're doing with Startup CPG is, I think, continue to uplift all brands. The face of adversity is us when we're in our offices by ourselves and it's dark and the money's running out. So just keep putting positive energy into the space so we all succeed together. For us, obviously you can buy it on Amazon, you know, buy it at your local stores, buy it at Bristol Farms, Heb soon, sprout soon, Costco soon, fresh time soon. So for us, it's like, if you see it, try it. That's the biggest thing too is I try everything. My wife knows that I try every brand and she's not allowed to drink some brands, but I don't like some of the people that work at those brands.

31:44
BJ McCaslin
She knows what we're allowed to do and like, to me, it's like just the Holy water space for me. I feel like regardless of how successful the concept is fiscally this year, next year, the year after this brand is going to do great things. It's going to help people. It's going to get you a better night's sleep. It's going to get your gut healthier. It's going to put you in a mindset that you don't need to have that 15th tall boy. It's going to help you focus to get through that day. And that to me is. I know again it's cliche but that at the end of the day is why you do it. Right. You don't just do it because you're going to run up a 2 billion dollar deal like we're all not Rohan. I get it. Does that right.

32:20
BJ McCaslin
There's another few people. But the end of the day, we do this because we want to make a great product for people. So support us to try it. That's the biggest thing. You can use the code always 30. It's always 30% off to do that on our website. And if you like it, tell people. If you don't like it, tell me what I can do better. I'll work with my team and we're always here to try to make a better product for you. And like I always say, we're blessed to be able to chase this dream every day.

32:43
BJ McCaslin
I've been able to do it for 20 years and I always look back on it and I say if I have to go work a corporate job the next 20 years of my life, I look back at how blessed I was and thankful for this opportunity at the beginning of my career. But the problem is nobody hires me. I can't get a job.

32:57
Grace Kennedy
You're stuck in this business.

32:59
BJ McCaslin
Yeah. Startup cbg. And you guys are stuck with me for life.

33:02
Grace Kennedy
We love it. I mean we're thrilled and it's been so much fun to chat with you and learn more about holy water. And I hope everybody goes and tries it and checks it out and sees what's up with holy water. And I will say if you Google holy water, you gotta make sure you put in the. You're looking for the drink, the non alcoholic drink.

33:19
BJ McCaslin
Gotta put in holy water ketone. You gotta put in holy water mushroom. So we patient the focus of performance. We're working on it. But yeah, no, I feel you. This whole Internet world. When I started my first brand, I think Instagram just came out right in lapped ever since. And that's why you get these young gurus in the beverage space like Wild Wonder. They're doing a great thing through food service and that's super inspiring for me to see what they're doing in a traditional capacity. You got guys like IO who crushed it online, Recess crushed it online. So I'm trying to figure out what to do still in year 20 and, you know, thankful to have a crew like you and thankful to have my team to be able to go do it.

33:54
Grace Kennedy
I love it. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show, bj. It was a pleasure. All right, everyone, thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, it would help us out so much if you left a 5 star review on ratethispodcast.com startupcpg I am Gracie Kennedy, the host of the Founder Feature series. So feel free to add me on LinkedIn or reach out to me on Slack. I'm always on the hunt for new and exciting brands to feature. And if you're a potential sponsor who would like to appear on the podcast, please email partnershipsartofcpg.com and finally, as a reminder for anyone listening, if you haven't already, we would love for you to join our community on Slack. You can sign up via our website startupcpg.com.