The Startup CPG Podcast

Jenn Ko
We started seeing MSG as an upcoming trend in certain media resources about food, and were like, we need to take the story before anyone else does. And that was a big thing for me because I had so much seen that things like goji berries and jujubes, jujube dates, now a lot of Asian ingredients are blowing up and becoming really trendy. And I wanted to make sure that us asian people, that were actually taking this story and doing this ourselves.

00:48
Caitlin Bricker
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the startup CPG podcast. We are back with another founder feature. Today we're joined by Jen Ko, founder of daim, an everyday MSG seasoning, on a mission to flip the narrative and bring bold, simple umami to your food. After working in advertising and tech, Jen returned from studying abroad during the pandemic with a renewed purpose to advocate for her culture. This led her to create daim, challenging misconceptions about MSG while celebrating her Asian heritage. We'll dive into why MSG got a bad rap despite being perfectly safe and Jen's journey from MSG skeptic to advocate and brand founder. I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I enjoy cooking with daim. Enjoy. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the startup CPG podcast. This is Caitlin and today I'm here with Jen Ko, founder of daim. Jen, welcome to the show.

01:45
Jenn Ko
Thank you, Caitlin. It's so good to be here.

01:48
Caitlin Bricker
I am so happy to have you here. When I got the DIME products in my hands for the Shelfie Awards submission, I looked at your product and I was blown away. A, because I really like the branding and B, because I received a product that changed my whole perspective on an ingredient. So I got educated and I got a great product in my hand. So can you introduce listeners to dime? Sure.

02:13
Jenn Ko
Well, I'm glad you said that because we're doing our job then we've. We're making our goal happening. Yeah. So I'm the co founder of daim. I have a few other co founders who have worked on this product with me. DAIM is an everyday MSG seasoning. So like you mentioned, MSG has gotten a bad rap and there's a lot of history behind what people think MSG is, especially here in the US Maybe in other countries, it's a bit different, but I grew up here and even my own family talked about MSG and how it's bad and so many with this brand. What we wanted to do was reintroduce MSG to the world and make it really fun and cool and colorful and loud and Bold. So even just by looking at the packaging, for example, people can get a different perspective of what MSG is.

03:02
Caitlin Bricker
Yes. And it worked on me.

03:05
Jenn Ko
I love that.

03:05
Caitlin Bricker
I will be completely honest. I was regrettably, one of those people who always just thought, oh, msg, it's bad. I'll stay away from that. Thinking about Chinese food especially, I feel like that's a very common misconception with Chinese food. And I will say my sister at some point said, you know, that's not true. But I just wrote her off because I'm like, what do you mean? It's common knowledge that MSG is bad for you. And then your product was the product that solidified it for me. That. Wait, this misconception that I've had in my head pretty much my entire life is totally wrong. So can you tell us how MSG got a bad rap?

03:45
Jenn Ko
Yeah, well, that's exactly how I was as well, so don't feel bad about it. I'm sure there's a lot of people who feel the same way. So msg, actually, it's funny because it started in Japan. So even that disconnect of how you think about Chinese food and how MSG is so tied to Chinese restaurants here in America, and like, the no MSG sign that's on all the Chinese menus, it's actually was invented in Japan by a chemist way back in the 1900s, early 1900s, and he was just trying to figure out what this flavor was in something that his wife had made. And so that's kind of how the fifth taste, umami, that we, most of us know what that is, came about. And so he did a bunch of science.

04:29
Jenn Ko
I'm not a chemist, so I probably can't talk exactly on the method, but he extracted the acid, it's like an amino acid that he extracted from ingredients, and then turned it into what we now know as msg. The best way that I understand it and I can, like, visualize it in my brain is like, if you're extracting sugar from fruit, so, like, sugar is naturally in fruit, and you take it out, do some chemistry, and then you create it into a form, like table sugar that you can use, and you're cooking and sprinkling on different foods. So that's similar to that process of msg, where it came from and how you can use it just in everyday foods.

05:12
Caitlin Bricker
So that's a great explanation on MSG and what it is. So why is this misconception about MSG out there now?

05:21
Jenn Ko
Yeah. So really brief history lesson back in the 1960s, when was kind of when a bunch of Chinese immigrants and Asian immigrants were coming to the country because of an act that put into place that allowed more Asian immigrants to come to America. So that was around the time that Chinese restaurants were booming. There was just a lot of more Asian communities that were forming. And so I, in what I understand, Americans got just introduced to the. This culture, the food. And MSG was an ingredient that was widely used in the Asian community already. So they were cooking with that. Somebody wrote a letter that said, he stated that he was feeling unwell after eating at Chinese restaurants. He was getting sweats, headaches, et cetera. And really kind of the gist of it was that letter just blew up.

06:19
Jenn Ko
And I think it was really attached to a lot of the xenophobia that was happening at that time in the country because of this wave of immigration. With that letter, the term Chinese restaurant syndrome was coined. And that started to, again, make this wave kind of like going viral back in the day of how people visualize Chinese food and Chinese restaurants specifically.

06:44
Caitlin Bricker
It is just so interesting how something seemingly so minor could blow up and be so big. Which, yes, it's like today's version of going viral on social media. Some random person writes a letter, and now there's this common misconception that still lives on today. I would have still had the misconception had I not been introduced to dime. It really is just so wild.

07:11
Jenn Ko
Yeah, I like to actually connect it to. And this kind of goes into the story later when we talk about maybe how we came up with the idea. But when I was sitting in my apartment alone during 2020, Covid was blowing up. And you kind of saw in the news, right, that people were like, oh, I can't go to Chinatown. I can't eat at Chinese restaurants because of a certain narrative. So that's how I like to parallel that in my brain. Because now we've all lived through Covid and so we can kind of understand that experience and how that happened.

07:47
Caitlin Bricker
Yeah, it's a scary parallel. And it does help understand how this may have gone down years ago and how this has still been perpetuated, because unfortunately, we're still seeing the effects of, again, like, these misconceptions and just like, flat out racism that stemmed from the beginning of the pandemic today. And it's accepted, which is even scarier. So why Dime and why now? Sure.

08:14
Jenn Ko
So the why now is funny. I think the universe kind of aligned. Again, brief story of just. I've always Known that I wanted to create a brand and create something for myself. And I think Covid really helped propel me to hone in on what story I wanted to tell and how to celebrate my culture. The actual way Dime started, though, was I was shopping with a friend, grocery shopping, and he was like, oh, I have to go get some msg. I'm making dinner tonight. This was years ago. And I was triggered. I was like, msg, like, no, that's bad. Like you use that. And he started going through this explanation of msg. So that's when I got educated actually about it. And that then started me on this rabbit hole of understanding it, trying it, et cetera. Fast forward.

09:08
Jenn Ko
We were literally at dinner with a group of friends and were like, hey, like, we've gotta do something. We started seeing MSG as an upcoming trend in certain media resources about food. And were like, we need to take the story before anyone else does. And that was a big thing for me because I had seen that things like goji berries and jujubes, jujube dates, now a lot of Asian ingredients are blowing up and becoming really trendy. And I wanted to make sure that us asian people, that were actually taking this story and doing this ourselves.

09:50
Caitlin Bricker
I love that. It is interesting to see trends blow up. And then one of the things that I personally really like to do when I see a brand, I like to, of course, look at the ingredients, but then I go right to the about us page or the our story page, and I want to know what the story is. And for me, I do like to see the dots connected when it comes to ingredients like that. Like, why are you highlighting an ingredient like this? Or why now? Why does your connection to the ingredient make sense? So I really like hearing your story about how the narrative for MSG was flipped for you and now how this has become something that you're so passionate about.

10:32
Jenn Ko
Yeah. And I think the biggest thing too is, like, I really appreciate you sharing your side of it and your story and admitting, like, yeah, I totally thought it was bad because I want people to feel okay with that. Right. Like, we don't care that people thought it was a bad ingredient. So much so, like, relatively, because again, that was my experience as well. It's more so now people being open minded and seeing, like you're saying, connecting the dots as like, Asian founders and us coming to the world and being like, this is an amazing ingredient, like, everyone should try it. Yeah.

11:10
Caitlin Bricker
I mean, it does feel kind of strange having to admit that, especially on a podcast. But, I mean, we all make mistakes, right? I think the most important thing is that we can learn from them and not repeat it. And definitely not let history repeat itself in this case.

11:25
Jenn Ko
Yeah.

11:26
Caitlin Bricker
So tell me a little bit more about your upbringing and how it plays into the creation of Dime.

11:33
Jenn Ko
Yeah. So this is another reason why I was so motivated to create a brand and to celebrate my culture. Because I grew up in a predominantly white and Caucasian community. So I had the notion of I want to just fit in. I want everyone to like me. I want to do all the cool things that I see my friends doing. And I really ran away from my Chinese culture. My dad came from Hong Kong. My mom. Her mom is from China. So I'm second generation. But I didn't want to have any part of that. And that was my life for a really long time. And then again, fast forward to during college, I got much more exposed because I went to a school that actually had a big Asian community.

12:23
Jenn Ko
I started feeling comfortable, like, going to Asian restaurants with my friends and talking about Asian culture and just feeling more comfortable. And then as I got older and I started traveling more and going to other countries, I just fell in love with culture and different cultures and being able to celebrate it and seeing how other communities celebrate their culture. And so that was like, the turning point for me. I was like, okay, I want to be proud of who I am and not be that little girl who was too scared or too embarrassed about who they were.

12:59
Caitlin Bricker
I love that. And I think it's great that now you're making a very powerful statement with your brand. I mean, it's on the package. I didn't even have to look on your website. I knew exactly the message that you're trying to deliver with your brand, because it's right there in front of your face.

13:14
Jenn Ko
You know, with Asian parents, it was also always like, the path. Right. You go to school, you go to college, you get your job in. So I think even that was like, a big moment for me of let me do something that is not that path and breaking out. So, yeah, it's kind of like a big moment to break out of my shell and, like, be who I really want to be.

13:36
Caitlin Bricker
I love it. And what does your family think about this? Your choice in creating Dime and putting it out there in the world?

13:43
Jenn Ko
Sure. So, actually, funny story. I actually haven't told my parents that I've started this brand. I have told other family members who think it's so cool and have celebrated it and have helped me talk about it and tell their friends about it, I think. But this story of like not even telling my parents yet, I think it kind of ties into my upbringing and this journey to where I've gotten to is. And there's still kind of that fear of like, what if this isn't accepted yet or the world doesn't accept MSG or I don't know, it's still a little bit of that fear. And so while I want to like come out and celebrate it and be really excited, I think because they also had that stigma of MSG is bad.

14:34
Jenn Ko
It's like going into the scariest person, you know, and like trying to educate them.

14:38
Caitlin Bricker
Right.

14:38
Jenn Ko
It's like your parents, like trying to get them on board. So. So tbd. I'll follow up with you on that one.

14:45
Caitlin Bricker
That is very interesting. It's cool to hear that perspective. I'm sorry that you're like dealing with a little bit of anxiety or fear maybe in telling them, but I think that's a very relatable story, especially because as a founder, I can only imagine that taking this leap is scary in itself. But then to also know that you're gonna have eyes on you and people are gonna wanna talk to you, like myself. And how do you navigate that?

15:13
Jenn Ko
Yeah, yeah, Very new world for me for sure.

15:16
Caitlin Bricker
So what do you do on a day to day basis? Is Dime your full time gig or do you have anything else going on the side?

15:23
Jenn Ko
Yeah, so I have something going on the side. My whole career has been in media marketing, project management. So that's kind of what I call my quote unquote day job. I'm consulting for now to pay the bills, but I am so focused on dying, becoming like my thing. Like this is my passion. And every time I get to take my breaks or at the end of the day at night I'm like working on Dime and figuring out how to like make a Instagram reel and like edit all my stuff or like what do I do? What's a co packer? Like how do I talk to these people? That just lights me up.

16:03
Jenn Ko
And so I feel like I'm at that crossroads now where I am starting to see like the rainbows and daisies and unicorns over there and I want to like run to that. And then like my day job is here and I'm like, yes, I still had to pay the bills but hopefully eventually Dime will blow up and that can be a full time thing.

16:23
Caitlin Bricker
Love it. So why the name Dime? I'm Always very curious in why people choose the brand names that they do. So tell us about that.

16:32
Jenn Ko
Yeah, so. So I will say this as well as I can without being too crazy. So we love to be crazy.

16:39
Caitlin Bricker
Give it to us.

16:40
Jenn Ko
Okay, perfect. We'll be crazy. So obviously I have one here. It's a bag. It's a little pouch. You can take it in your pocket. You can take it wherever you are. Msg, our seasoning is a powder. So if you kind of catch my drift, we're moving towards, yes, what we call a dime bag. And actually the true inspiration was were prototyping, and we had originally done it in the shaker, the glass shaker bottles. And one of our co founders, she was traveling and she was like, man, the food was so bland everywhere went. And I wish I had some of our seasoning with me. Like, I would have literally pulled out a bag, a little baggie and all. Everything kind of collided and were like, we're on to something.

17:30
Jenn Ko
And so we had brainstormed tons of different names, knowing that the kind of dime bag reference is, like, what were going for. And then we had so many options, and were like, let's just be bold about it and call it what it is. Also, we had the safety net of, like, you know, dime piece, dime, 10 out of 10. So there's like many connotations I think people can take from it. But we really wanted it to be like, you get your dime bag, you take it with you want it on everything. You're addicted to it. Like, it's something that you always need.

18:07
Caitlin Bricker
There's a lot you could do with marketing wise, with a name like that.

18:11
Jenn Ko
Yes. Yes, exactly.

18:13
Caitlin Bricker
I had a feeling that's what you were going for, but I had to ask.

18:17
Jenn Ko
Yeah, that in of itself is great. Like, I love when for me, right, like, if I'm getting new brands or like, exploring a brand, I like when I've already created this story in my head about the founder or, like, why they did what they did or called it what they called it. And then you hear and you're like, oh, yeah. Like, I knew. I knew it. And I love that. And so I hope people who buy dime go through that journey too.

18:43
Caitlin Bricker
I think they will. I mean, I will be honest with you. Like I said, your product changed my perspective on msg. So I had never intentionally put MSG on my food. Literally, just the smallest pinch of the Korean seasoning that I put on my. I made a quesadilla and I put it in there.

19:01
Jenn Ko
Yum.

19:02
Caitlin Bricker
The tiniest pinch of that just. It blew the flavor out of the water. And I was like, okay, I get it. Like, I could totally see myself using this every day.

19:15
Jenn Ko
Yes. Yeah. And on anything, right?

19:17
Caitlin Bricker
Like, on anything, too. Like, I could honestly see it being, like, something really good, even in sweets, like using a salt to elevate the sugar or really anything.

19:28
Jenn Ko
Yeah, I know. I love that you went on that journey because I think we want to be directional. We want to give people, like, yes, use it on these things. But at the same time, I personally don't want to be too prescriptive because I want people to go on that exploration and the journey and, like, sprinkling it on, like, your quesadilla. And then you're like, wait, I could put this on my cookies or something. Or like, my brownies. Like, I love that.

19:54
Caitlin Bricker
So what are you using? Diamond.

19:56
Jenn Ko
Oh, man, I eat it every day, so I've been feeling great. Yeah, I'm a healthy person. My doctor hasn't said otherwise. I love the yuzu lemon pepper on literally anything that has avocado. I don't know what it is with, like, the mix of the yuzu and lemon with avocado, but that is amazing. I don't eat meat. I'm actually semi vegan. I eat eggs. So I've heard it's really good on, like, fish, shrimp, seafood things. The Korean chili, I only really make stir fries. So, like, any stir fry I make, I love to put it in sauces. So anything that you're going to put chili flakes on, I've had it on pizza and then the OG Eggs. Like, eggs. Every morning I eat on eggs. I've been doing a lot of pasta, so I love making pesto.

20:50
Jenn Ko
So I think, like, yuzu lemon could be really good with pesto. I mean, any of them could be, like, if you want the spice, a Korean chili. But the OG is always good because it has, like, garlicky vibe to it. So, yeah, I eat it on everything. I haven't tried. Yeah, you know, I haven't tried is cocktails. And one of my friend and I friends and I was talking about, like, there has to be something there. And so I need to experiment on that soon.

21:18
Caitlin Bricker
For sure. I mean, immediately I'm thinking of margaritas. Assalted rim. Like, I. When I was drinking, I never liked a salted rim because it was just too much salt. But if I were to just get one little sprinkle of, like, the yuzu lemon in a margarita, that would have.

21:37
Jenn Ko
Been a Game changer.

21:38
Caitlin Bricker
Because you still get the salt without the salty rim. I like where you're going with that.

21:43
Jenn Ko
Yeah, I need to. I need to experiment. I want to just have a day where I have, like a hundred different ingredients and. And try it and then I'll document it for you all.

21:53
Caitlin Bricker
Yes, I will definitely be watching that. So tell me about your hopes and dreams for Dime. Where do you envision seeing Dime? What type of customers would you like to use? Dime, tell me what's on your mind.

22:08
Jenn Ko
Yeah, I mean, it's hard to not say everyone. I want everyone to have it. I think our vision truly is it's like a household cold item. So instead of. Well, maybe not instead of, but in addition to grabbing, like now, I feel like everyone has the everything but bagel seasoning in their house. So in addition to having that on your shelf, to have daim on your shelf is my dream. I obviously want people to just embrace it. My dream is that people will not be going to the Chinese restaurant and asking or looking to see if they use MSG or if they are. It's like, because they know it's going to taste better and so they're actually seeking it out. I think next up, I would love to see, like, specialty stores.

22:56
Jenn Ko
So I really envision our brand and the way that we built the brand to be at your little local specialty market down the street where you know the person and they have, like, the coolest upcoming brands that you've never seen before or even, like, the colors stand out to you. And then of course, like, nationally and big retails, retailers would be amazing. But I think mostly just people to embrace it. I want people to be so excited and to be talking about how they're using it and to tell their friends and family how much like you. Your story, kind of like how much it's changed your thoughts and you know your flavors now when you cook.

23:38
Caitlin Bricker
Truly. I need to make a little reel on Instagram. I used to be so good with the content. Now I'm in a lull, but maybe Dime will reinvigorate my content creation.

23:49
Jenn Ko
Yes.

23:50
Caitlin Bricker
Yes.

23:50
Jenn Ko
I love that. Yeah.

23:51
Caitlin Bricker
So something that I really love to ask is, how did you find startup cpg?

23:58
Jenn Ko
Yeah, so I actually didn't work in CPG previously, so I remember my first job I got in the CPG world. One of my friends had been part of the community for so long, and he was like, you have to just join the community because there's discussions literally every second about something that you need to know about the cbg world. And so I had been actually part of the community for I think at least two or three years before starting Dime. So I had just been hanging out in there and talking to people and seeing what people were talking about.

24:35
Jenn Ko
And I think when before you go on this journey to start a brand, it's really intimidating and you start to, like, chip away at that intimidation when you see how many other people have been able to do it and the amazing brands that they've made. So I was just watching a lot of the brands and seeing their story and following them on social. And so when we started daimon, I was so excited that I'd already been part of the community. And then that's what I started to jump in. And I was like, I have a bajillion questions, like, somebody tell me how to find my packaging vendor, because I know nothing.

25:14
Caitlin Bricker
Amazing. I saw you just recently introduced yourself and I'm like, wow, we're. We're striking while the iron's hot right now.

25:22
Jenn Ko
Yes. Yeah. And I think that's like my personality where I'm kind of like, let me observe a little bit. Let me be a spirit sponge. And then I, like, pounce. I'm like, all right, it's going time.

25:32
Caitlin Bricker
Yeah. Just gotta gather your data. So that's great to hear how you found us. Now tell our audience where they can find Dime.

25:41
Jenn Ko
Yeah, so we have a website, www.dimesg.com and we're also mostly. Well, we sell solely on Amazon, so you can find us on Amazon. We eventually will be in retail. So follow us on social media, Dime MSG to our journey and see where you can find us next.

26:03
Caitlin Bricker
Amazing. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us. I am so excited about your brand and I cannot wait to see where you go and what you do next.

26:13
Jenn Ko
Of course. Thank you so much, Caitlin. This was amazing. I love talking about it. I could talk for hours. So I appreciate you sharing your story and giving us again that confidence boost of we're in the right direction, we're doing the right thing.

26:26
Caitlin Bricker
Of course. I am happy to be an advocate for you. Thank you so much. Bye.

26:31
Jenn Ko
Bye.

26:35
Caitlin Bricker
All right, everyone, thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, do us a solid and leave us a five star review on ratethispodcast.com startup cpg. I'm Caitlin Bricker, the host of the founder feature series and editor at Startup CPG. Feel free to find me on LinkedIn or reach out to me on Slack and get on my radar. I'm always keeping my eyes peeled for new and emerging brands to spotlight. If you're a potential sponsor who would like to appear on the podcast, please email partnershipstartupcpg.com and finally, as a reminder for anyone listening, if you haven't already, we would love for you to join our free CPG community on Slack. You can sign up via our website or@startupcpg.com See you around.