The Startup CPG Podcast

Keya Wingfield
I really love food, as you can tell, and I love to eat. I love to feed people even more than I love to eat. I think food is a massive unifier in this world, more than music and art. Not to insult anybody, but because we all have to eat, we don't have to consume music, we don't have to consume art, but we have to consume food. So I love to feed people because it connects us all and I think it's a great leveler of humanity.

00:36
Caitlin Bicker
Hey, everybody, this is Caitlin Brooker, managing editor at Startup cpg. We are back with another founder feature. Today I'm sitting down with Keya Wingfield, founder of Keya Snacks, a brand making potato chips that leverage Indian heritage onto beloved American snacks. We're talking about how Keya went from making custom desserts to accidentally launching a chip brand during the pandemic. The intentional design choices behind her stunning packaging. I'll give you a little spoiler. It's her face on the bag and it represents every woman who has ever fed anybody and why she's fighting against the sea of sameness, as she likes to call it, in the chip aisle. I think everybody's got a lot to learn in this episode, brands and retailers alike. So enjoy. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Startup CPG podcast.

01:28
Caitlin Bicker
This is Caitlin and today I'm here with Keya Wingfield, founder of Keya's Snacks. Keya, welcome to the show.

01:34
Keya Wingfield
Hello. Thank you for having me.

01:36
Caitlin Bicker
Of course, the pleasure is all mine. I love having you here. Love the chips. We are huge fans in our household. Even my 2 year old is obsessed, which is a huge feat. And I just need to say before we get into this, I was swimming today and I was like, how do I introduce Keya to the world? For anybody who has not heard of you and your products, who is Keya? And to me, I just have to say this to you are like the baddest bitch in CPG in my opinion. You really are. You have the style, your products are on point, the swag, literally everything, the attitude. I love everything about you. So I just needed to give your flowers for that.

02:24
Keya Wingfield
Stop. Listen, are we allowed to cry on a podcast?

02:26
Caitlin Bicker
Go for it.

02:27
Keya Wingfield
People do that. It's coming. I think there's tears forming. That is incredibly generous of you. Thank you, thank you.

02:33
Caitlin Bicker
So we gotta get into it now. Who is Keya for? Anybody who's not familiar with your products. Can you tell us what Keya Snacks is?

02:42
Keya Wingfield
We make potato chips. We leverage my Indian heritage onto beloved American snacks.

02:48
Caitlin Bicker
I Love it. And what kind of flavors can a consumer find if they pick up a bag of your chips?

02:54
Keya Wingfield
So our motto is anything but boring, and our flavors kind of reflect that really well. We make two flavors right now. Bombay spice and black salt.

03:02
Caitlin Bicker
And those are an ode to your upbringing from my understanding. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

03:09
Keya Wingfield
That's right. I was born and raised in Bombay india. It's called Mumbai now. So when I say Bombay, people are like, where is that? And I've been in the US for almost 20 years now. I feel old when I say that, but I was very young when I moved here. So this snack brand is an homage to both my cultures of Indian and American.

03:27
Caitlin Bicker
I really love it, and it's really hard for me to pick a favorite flavor. I don't think I'm capable of doing it.

03:34
Keya Wingfield
I would not recommend that. Yeah, no, don't do it. Just buy both.

03:38
Caitlin Bicker
Yeah, I know you have a bag with you right now. Can you hold it up for anybody who's watching?

03:43
Keya Wingfield
Dun, dun.

03:45
Caitlin Bicker
This branding, I was sold before I even tasted the products. The branding is unlike anything I have seen on the shelf. I would imagine if I see it on a store in Massachusetts.

03:56
Keya Wingfield
Hello?

03:57
Caitlin Bicker
Anybody listening? Can we please get more around me now? I would imagine if anybody were to see them on a shelf in a store, I know my eyes would go right to it. It truly is unlike anything else we're seeing. So walk us through how you got to this point. Who helped you out? Tell me everything.

04:17
Keya Wingfield
Okay, so let's do the quick spiel first, because then maybe the brand will make sense. So I'm actually a pastry chef. I'm not this bad CPG person. This isn't badass CBG person. I wish. However, I've been running a custom dessert studio for 15 years. The reason it's funny that I'm a pastry chef is because growing up india, I had never seen an oven. It is not a part of our culture. We don't bake very much. So when I moved here is when the first time I saw this box in the kitchen with knobs on it, and I'm like, what is that box in the kitchen? And my husband is like, it's an oven, you moron. I'm like, oh, and bake things. I mean, he has stored cereal boxes in there. What do I know? I'm not from here.

04:57
Keya Wingfield
So I'm like, okay, sorry, one second. I have to go and bake 50,000 cakes. So I did that. I taught myself how to bake. I also taught at a college for nine years as a professor. I went on to become a food network champion. And I do a bunch of stuff with them.

05:12
Caitlin Bicker
You can't just gloss over that.

05:15
Keya Wingfield
It's fun. I really love food, as you can tell. And I love to eat. I love to feed people even more than I love to eat. I think food is a massive unifier in this world more than music and art. Not to insult anybody, but because we all have to eat, we don't have to consume music, we don't have to consume art, but we have to consume food. And I think it's a great leveler of humanity. So I love to feed people because it connects us all. So 2020 came about, the bottom fell out and we pivoted to making modern Indian American to go meals from custom desserts. And with those meals I would send teeny bags of Bombay spice chips. I always have an open bag around me. Like it's like for some weird reason I always have one here.

05:59
Keya Wingfield
So we would send teeny bags of masala chips as a thank you for letting us pivot. And then not even a week later, customers are calling to order just the chips. And I'm like, what chips? What do you want, sir? He's like, you know those little things with the bag and the brown and the chips in there? I'm like, oh, you want those? He's like, yeah, yeah. I'm like, okay. So overnight we learned how to make a CPG product, how to make it shelf stable, slap a label on it and go deliver it the whole nine yards. We did that for four years. Couldn't keep up with demand anymore. So in March of last year, in 2025 is when we relaunch with professional packaging. Single origin organic spices from India, potatoes from the farmers in the east coast. A fantastic co packer in place.

06:46
Keya Wingfield
And here we are. Ever since we've been going full force.

06:50
Caitlin Bicker
And Daniel, our founder had showed me a photo of your packaging.

06:55
Keya Wingfield
Oh, those clear bags. I still have PTSD from filling those bags. Like oh my God, don't get me started.

07:01
Caitlin Bicker
This was from I think like a backyard event at his parents house in D.C. if I'm remembering correctly, the glow up is very real.

07:11
Keya Wingfield
We should talk about that. So you know what's funny about that event at Daniel's house was pretty much pivotal because I had the guts to show up there with my little baggie of potato chips. I'm like, oh look, I'm a brand. And he's like, okay, that's cute. So I went from that to this. This is a labor of love in every way possible. Massive shout out to my brother, older brother, mind you, because everybody's asking us who's older? And I'm like, that's rude. You should know by looking at us. I'm clearly the younger one, so don't ask me that. But he is not a CPG designer. He's an artist, a graphic artist, and a really talented, very deeply. Just very deeply understands a lot of things, right? And especially me. I was born around him.

07:57
Keya Wingfield
He knows me really well and he knows my intention really well. So we did interview a bunch of art agencies and bunch of companies to do the packaging. But I would keep begging him. I'm like, why don't you do it? You do it. And he would say, no, no, I don't know how to do this. So obviously I had to pull out the little sister card and do some fake crying and just kind of blackmail him into doing all this. He's like, fine, I'll do it. Then me and him went to work. We studied everything. We used the shelves, the market, the countries, the. He lives in Hong Kong, by the way. And we looked at everything and then we landed on. Okay, everything out there is beautiful, but how do we show up as ourselves? Period? That's it. That's all that mattered.

08:38
Keya Wingfield
So we chucked all the rules. There are a lot of rules about having product photo out on the front of the packaging. And we chucked that. I'm like, no, thank you. I think my consumer is very smart and they know what a potato chip looks like. I'm pretty sure of that. I don't think they need a picture of a potato.

08:56
Caitlin Bicker
What an intro to potato chips your products would be for someone who had never had potato chips for real.

09:03
Keya Wingfield
I would love to meet that person, actually. Like, where are they? They would be our mascot. But so there were a lot of design rules we've broken in making this bag. And very proudly, because, again, we just wanted to be ourselves. That's it. In this world where you're told to do a lot of different things, we're like, we appreciate it, we respect it. Here's how we look at it. Obviously, that's my face on the packaging. However, it's not just my face. It's the face of every woman that has ever fed anybody. Mothers who raise us, women who feed us. It's actually a mixture of my mom, my daughter and me combined. We all have round faces. If you can't tell, there is A seam in the back here, that is from my mom's sorry waters.

09:43
Keya Wingfield
My mom is the reason I know anything about food. So this is respect to her. In our typography, there's a story of fours. You'll see there's four tines and everything. So there is many reasons, but two reasons that I love about this. There is an Indian goddess of food. Her name is Annapurna and she has four arms. She is the one who feeds everybody. So we see mothers as Annapurnas in our life. They must have forearms, given how much they do. And then the second thing was, you know, when you're selling something and buying something, there are two hands that sell it and two hands that buy it. And you wanted to pay respect to that process. So there are a lot of other hidden gems in the bag. You have to discover it for yourself.

10:24
Keya Wingfield
There's a poem around the face that my husband wrote. He asked me, what is your intention? And in 30 seconds he wrote that's my daughter's hand in the back selling you the chip. He's like, this is a potato chip. I'm like, okay, thank you. But, yeah, a lot of love has gotten into it.

10:38
Caitlin Bicker
You really can tell. And I did not know that about the sorry, strip on the back for your mom. That is incredible. Beautiful. I love that so much. And I know you recently posted about how much she had inspired your journey with flavor and food and making this product ultimately. And I was touched reading that I would not have any of the skills that I have in the kitchen had it not been for my parents. I mean, no shade to my parents, but the flavors weren't there like yours are.

11:10
Keya Wingfield
It's cool. It's cool. All parents have their own set of skills. They're passed down. Now that I am a parent, I can see how hard they worked in raising us. No shade whatsoever. And no shame in that either, right?

11:19
Caitlin Bicker
Of course not.

11:21
Keya Wingfield
Yeah. No. My mother was a very special individual. She was the most selfless human being on the planet. If she met you in the street, she would give you the clothes off her back kind of person and lived to feed people. When I was growing up around her, I didn't have enough sense to spend time with her in the kitchen or learn how to cook. I was a useless teenager. But later on, I learned that even though I didn't actually get teachings from her and she never pushed it, I was somehow inherently gotten the gift of flavor from her. And I live to honor that.

11:51
Caitlin Bicker
It's funny how that works, huh? Like, you really Just don't realize how much you want to pull knowledge from these people who are no longer here. Until you're older, until you're at an age where it just makes sense to you. Like, you're saying that's gotta be a universal experience, I would assume.

12:09
Keya Wingfield
I hope so, because it's a beautiful feeling. You know, I wish that for everybody.

12:13
Caitlin Bicker
Totally. And I know you've mentioned this to me before too, but building Keyas has been something that you're hoping to. I mean, it's a success in my eyes, but you're hoping to have this brand be a success enough so that your daughter can look up to you and know that, hey, I built something from nothing. You can do this too.

12:32
Keya Wingfield
Absolutely. I'm raising a daughter. She's seven now. Not to mention her American lifestyle of buying all the Lululemons and Sephoras. I'm gonna have to support all that, so. Better sell some chips.

12:47
Caitlin Bicker
What's her favorite flavor? Does she have a favorite?

12:49
Keya Wingfield
Oh, you know, here's the funny thing about her. She only really eats Mac and cheese. That's it. That's her entire personality. But she crushes a whole bag of Bombay spice chips. It is unreal to see her.

13:02
Caitlin Bicker
Yeah. Sounds like her and my daughter would be kindred spirits for sure.

13:06
Keya Wingfield
Yeah. Like, she'll eat, like, a half the bag and go water spicy, but she'll keep eating it. They're not spicy, but to her, it is because she's. Yeah. Has no palate, essentially.

13:18
Caitlin Bicker
That is a very good segue. Because I do feel like even though your products are packing such a punch with flavor, they are not something that seems so unattainable for an untrained palate. So can you talk to us a little bit about how you chose the ingredients and flavors and how you ultimately landed on these flavors that you're pushing out there to the world?

13:40
Keya Wingfield
Excellent question, and probably one of my favorite questions. Because while we heard the story about how the product came to market, the origin story is what makes this brand. I feel like. So I married a white guy, and he didn't like Indian food. And I'm like, what in the world am I gonna do with you? I can't divorce you over this. I can't kill you, because I love you. So what do we do here? So I used to make the Bombay blend that's on the Bombay spice chips right now for myself all the time. This is 20 years ago. And I would put it on eggs and tacos and salads. Cause I was so homesick and One day I took that blend, put it on his favorite snack, which is a basic salted potato chip. Go figure.

14:20
Keya Wingfield
Put it on there, gave it to him, and it did the trick. Like, he learned how to eat Indian food by eating these chips. It opened his palate. He eats all kinds of cultural foods now. It was a massive aha moment for me as a chef, so that's how these flavors came to be. Because of my unique positioning of upbringing india, and really, as a chef, my growth has happened in the US So I really understand both the palates very well. I'm positioned in a way so I know what is inviting and how to make the unapproachable, approachable.

14:53
Caitlin Bicker
You do. I'm like, okay, Mike Drought. That is definitely a superpower of yours. My daughter, she's just a little over two now. I think she first tried your products when she was, I want to say a year and a half. And she was literally. She opened the bag herself. She knew she wanted it. The Brandon got her, and she was walking around our kitchen with the bag in her hands. I mean, it was basically the same size as her, but she was like, this is mine now. I want this for sure. She had not had those flavors before, but she tried them and she was like, okay, this is something I need in my life now as an 18 month old.

15:30
Keya Wingfield
I mean, listen, I can't ask for a better feedback than that, right? Like, there cannot be anything better than winning over kids. Truly. That's amazing. Amazing. There's a job waiting for you. When are we ready? I'll let her know she can come be my CEO. Yes.

15:45
Caitlin Bicker
I think she has CEO energy. So what has it been like for you doing live demos, being in stores with people who have never tasted something like this before? I mean, you must be getting the good with the bad, right? I would assume.

15:59
Keya Wingfield
Okay. I have a lot of funny demo stories.

16:02
Caitlin Bicker
Please enlighten us.

16:03
Keya Wingfield
Oh, my gosh. I'm going to get in trouble for saying some of these. When we launched, I did all the demos myself because I had to be that person. I'm like, oh, I got to go out in the field and get firsthand impression and firsthand knowledge of product and consumer. So there's so many insane demo stories that will remain with me for a long time. One was this lady walks up to the table and goes, so these look very premium. I can't afford this. This is before. She's tried it before and nothing. Right? Just like examining the bag, you know, And I'm like, they're 549 for the bag. And her jaw dropped. She's like, wait a minute. You're telling me this is not 1299? I'm like, no, ma'. Am. This is 5 49. It has got made with clean ingredients. It's made india.

16:48
Keya Wingfield
They're organic there. There's packaging. Like, I gave her the spiel, and she then said, I didn't think something like this could be accessible because the way it looks so premium.

16:58
Caitlin Bicker
I mean, it does.

16:59
Keya Wingfield
Oh, right. And she was so taken aback that she bought six bags.

17:04
Caitlin Bicker
Wow.

17:05
Keya Wingfield
Bought six packs. Like, I'm going to give these to my friends. That was a beautiful story because that was intentionality from our side coming to life. Like, I fought very hard to maintain that msrp, that competitive msrp, because everybody should have access to good premium flavor. The other reason, and this is a side story, but the reason went to India to get these spices is because I know where the good stuff comes from. And everything else that was Indian flavored, if you will, or cultural flavor in this country was so whitewashed. I'm like, you don't deserve that. Consumers don't deserve that. They deserve the good stuff. They deserve the stuff that I would feed my daughter in my house. So that was the intention behind the flavoring. Anyway, coming back to demo story number two. This is a good one.

17:49
Keya Wingfield
So again, this woman walks up and goes, who's that? I'm like, oh, that's me on the packaging. And she's like, you're ikea. I'm like, yes.

17:56
Caitlin Bicker
Yes. Wow.

17:57
Keya Wingfield
Your boss must be very impressed with you to put your face on the packaging. I'm like, huh?

18:03
Caitlin Bicker
I'm the boss.

18:05
Keya Wingfield
She thought that I was, you know, because I'm standing in the corner demoing something, so she thinks I'm like, a employee or whatnot. And it was so funny that she thought that I must be such a good employee that created a product with my name on it. It was adorable.

18:19
Caitlin Bicker
Have you learned any lessons in your life prior to KS that you feel like are applicable to what you're doing with KS now? Because you say your background's not in cpg, but I would assume that you've learned some things outside of CPG that could be applied today.

18:36
Keya Wingfield
I could write a book about all the shady jobs I did when I moved here. I work for some weird real estate guy. I worked at Barnes and Noble. I was painting walls for art galleries for a long time. I've done all the weird jobs, truly. So I don't know if any of that is applicable to KS Max or building this brand. But I would say that my upbringing in Bombay has been the driver of things, because Bombay is kind of like New York on steroids. It's nuts all the time. So you better learn how to survive and you better learn how to thrive in that environment. So I think I would give more credit to that than anything else.

19:14
Caitlin Bicker
Do you feel like there's anything that's happened on your journey as a founder that you can pinpoint and say, hey, other founders, like, watch out for this, or this is a lesson I've learned and I want you to hear it?

19:27
Keya Wingfield
I have to think about that answer a little bit because there's probably a lot of things like that. And I'm sure I've had these conversations with founders one one about, oh, try this, try that. But I'm also extremely new at this. So usually I'm in a position to be receiving that advice, not giving it out. I don't think I've learned enough to do that just yet. But having been in the food business for 15 years, not necessarily CPG, I think burnout is a real thing, and I'm always asking people to look out for that. It sneaks up on you, and when it hits you're left without any kind of tool to deal with it, and the implications are massive.

20:03
Caitlin Bicker
I think that's a really good call up, a really good call out, because a lot of people like yourself are doing this solo. They don't have anybody else to lean on. They don't have a team that they can tap in and say, hey, I need a break today. Can you take this over for me? It's like all the world and your whole brand on your shoulders. Do you have any tools that you lean on when it comes to feeling like you're on the verge of burning out?

20:27
Keya Wingfield
I like to go for walks a lot. I like to work out a little bit. I like to go buy makeup when I'm down, don't recommend it. Makeup is expensive. It adds up fast. But those are just some quote unquote coping mechanisms. I like to get on a call with my brother. I bug him no end. He has listened to all my nonsense very patiently. And obviously, my daughter, I think at the end of the day, watching her smile makes everything worth it. Like, I would do it 50,000 times over if it meant giving her a good life. And I have really good people around me, you know, people like you, people like my small team that I have. I'm surrounded by the most just Incredible human beings who also want me to succeed and us to succeed together.

21:10
Keya Wingfield
I really can't complain right now.

21:12
Caitlin Bicker
I love that you have no complaints. And I also love being in your circle. It's really beautiful to watch you be so vulnerable online in front of people that you have never and probably will never meet. And you mentioned working out, too. That's been an inspiration for me. Seeing you talk about just, like, your day, going to the gym, and I'm like, hell, yeah, I need to go to the gym too, or I'm gonna go swim now. Because Keya did it. I want to do it.

21:40
Keya Wingfield
You've been really regular with that. Like, I don't think I've been on.

21:42
Caitlin Bicker
Top of it, trying. It's hard. And, I mean, I can't even imagine what it's like being a CPG founder, too. Like, it's go, go all the time.

21:51
Keya Wingfield
Yeah. Or sit, sit. Because I've been a tether to my laptop all day, literally. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Yeah.

21:59
Caitlin Bicker
I think your journey's been pretty amazing to watch. I've been watching it. I think my first introduction to you is the Shelfies last year. That was the first time I saw your products, tasted them, and I was just blown away. That is such an overused term for me. But it's the truth. It is the truth. I would love to know what your strategy is for the next year. Do you have anything exciting coming down the pipeline? Anything you want to share with listeners?

22:26
Keya Wingfield
Strategy is to survive, not pass out.

22:30
Caitlin Bicker
Not religious. But here we are.

22:31
Keya Wingfield
Yes. Yeah. Not die from working so much is the main strategy. I think because I have no chill. We've got a third flavor in the works. It should be releasing in a month or so, hopefully. Fingers crossed. And then again, I want to feed people and there's a lot of product left in me to come out. There's other stuff we're working on that's very exciting stuff.

22:51
Caitlin Bicker
Yeah. Oh, I cannot wait. If these two flavors did it for me. Like, you've done it. I cannot wait for the third.

22:59
Keya Wingfield
Pressure, pressure.

23:01
Caitlin Bicker
I gotta know. What do you want to tell retailers who are listening? Why should they put Keya's on their shelves?

23:09
Keya Wingfield
Oh, man. I will 100% get in trouble for this answer. But I'm going to be honest. I've been to every store now, Right? Or not every, but I've been to a lot of stores, and I find that most of the main aisles are filled with the same product, regardless of the banner it's under. It's the same seven or eight brands that I will see over and over again. And great for them. I'm happy that they have the velocities and the presence they have. But I think we owe it to our consumer to provide them with other options and better options and although who should say better but different options and be able to support the smaller brands that are trying to bring about a real change, if you will and can. Right. Bigger brands have more to lose.

23:52
Keya Wingfield
They cannot iterate the way we can. So take advantage of that.

23:56
Caitlin Bicker
I love it. I think that's great advice and I think it's definitely something that retailers should take advice from you seeing all the aisles that you've been in and all the products that you've tasted on your own and being through the testing. I think it's great advice and as a consumer, I can back this up.

24:14
Keya Wingfield
Thank you. I think it's a sea of sameness as I call it. I think it's time to break through is this sleepy giant industry when it comes to some of the food.

24:23
Caitlin Bicker
You saying the sea of sameness. I don't know if you've ever seen it on my LinkedIn banner or if you're familiar with it, but it's the same. The 99 cent store photo. You gotta see it. It just looks like the sea of sameness. It's like this endless image of products in a store. Endless aisles, endless products. But a lot of it looks the same. I got introduced to that piece of artwork when I was in high school and it's stuck with me ever since. But you gotta check it out. I'll send it to you after.

24:53
Keya Wingfield
Yes, please send it to me. Kito. Funny story, because we are on a shelf in one big retailer and I snapped a photo of it, the whole shelf together and I could so clearly see this brand just standing out regardless of how much product is around it.

25:09
Caitlin Bicker
Absolutely.

25:10
Keya Wingfield
In my most tired moments, I look at that picture and I'm reminded of what we're working.

25:14
Caitlin Bicker
I love it. All right, we need to get Keya's in more people's hands. So tell everyone your website and your social handles. Give it to us.

25:23
Keya Wingfield
All right, so website is ksnacks.com Two S's in the middle, by the way. And did you point this out? I don't know who pointed that out, but when you look at the website, it's Keya as there is a word in the middle that you cannot unsee, unfortunately. Sorry about that.

25:37
Caitlin Bicker
I don't think it was me.

25:38
Keya Wingfield
Okay. I don't know who that was.

25:39
Caitlin Bicker
Now I'm going to go looking.

25:41
Keya Wingfield
Oh no, it was somebody from the industry and I'm like, whoops. And Instagram, you can follow me on Keya and co. We also have a business page called Keyas Snacks, which we don't populate very much, but I need to work on it. LinkedIn, Keya Wingfield, you can find me there. And then nationwide we are in sprouts and home goods. And then other focus has been on smaller boutiki and oh, and fresh thyme in the Midwest.

26:04
Caitlin Bicker
Oh, and fresh thyme.

26:06
Keya Wingfield
No big deal. Ugh. Yeah.

26:08
Caitlin Bicker
So cool. Can't wait to see how many more stores you're in the coming year. Lots of good things coming down the pipeline for Keyas.

26:15
Keya Wingfield
Thank you. I hope you don't get sick of me.

26:16
Caitlin Bicker
Never. It has been so much fun talking to you. Always love hearing more about you. I feel like you are definitely like the type of person that I classify as an onion type of person. There are just so many layers and I love it.

26:30
Keya Wingfield
True. I would. That's an accurate description. Somewhat. Maybe more cabbage. Yeah, but we'll take onion.

26:37
Caitlin Bicker
I have seen somewhere that I think cabbage is supposed to be hot this year, so we'll roll with it.

26:42
Keya Wingfield
Hey, I'll take that.

26:44
Caitlin Bicker
All right. I will see you sooner than later, I'm sure. Thank you so much.

26:48
Keya Wingfield
Thank you. So grateful for you guys. Thank you for everything.

26:51
Caitlin Bicker
See ya. CPG BFFs. We've now arrived together at the end of another episode of the Startup CPG podcast. As you may know, we're not just the top globally ranked CPG podcast. We're a community of tens of thousands of CPG founders and experts. Experts. And you should join us. If you haven't already. Head to startupcpg.com to sign up. You'll get an invite to our Slack community, hear about events near you, and get access to opportunities that connect you with buyers, investors and other brands. It's free. So what are you waiting for? I'll see you in Slack and in real life. Thanks for listening.