The Startup CPG Podcast

Kristen Hogan Doyle
At the bare minimum, everybody should be moisturizing their feet. So you need a really strong skin barrier and an elastic skin barrier to protect against infection and calluses and blisters and dry skin. And so what we recommend for everybody is to use the walker's cream daily or even twice daily. And then the cracked heel repair, as you said, is a little bit more of a targeted treatment for folks that suffer with cracked heels. But it's interesting how many people do. It's a really common problem that just hasn't been talked about very much.

00:35
Matt Jacobs
Cause I think for us, part of the mission of the brand is to hopefully enable and inspire more people to live more of their life on foot and be out in the world doing whatever it is that they love. Or for some people, it's their jobs. So a little bit of proactive care really can make the difference and prevent some of those disabling injuries that might occur.

00:57
Grace Kennedy
Hi everyone, this is Grace, and today I am interviewing Matt and Kristen of Pedestrian project. Pedestrian project is a brand that makes natural foot care for happier, healthier feet. Kristen and Matt have years of experience in the industry, and they share their insights into how they're modernizing the foot care category and how they're using content creation to educate consumers on the necessity of foot care. They definitely educated me, as I realized in this episode that I probably need to be taking better care of my feet. I've basically never taken care of them before. So I hope you enjoy the episode, and as always, let me know what you think. Hello and welcome back to the startup CPG podcast. This is Grace, and I'm here with another founder feature.

01:47
Grace Kennedy
Today I am interviewing Matt and Kristen, who are the co founders of Pedestrian Project, which is a wellness brand that focuses entirely on our feet. So I'd love to kick us off with the first question, which is just who is pedestrian project and why? Pedestrian project?

02:05
Kristen Hogan Doyle
Yeah, so pedestrian project started, like so many startups do, a personal need. So I had very dry, cracked heels, and I'm a runner, and I've had a bunch of children, and at some point along the way, my heels just sort of gave out. And I was sort of suffering with this for quite some time before I finally made my way to the local drugstore and found myself down the foot care aisle and always buried in the back and just was sort of immediately kind of shocked at how outdated and uninspired the category was. It just hasn't evolved the same way that skincare and hair care and some of the other personal care categories have. So I reached up to the shelves, found a couple of products, brought them home, and they just didn't work very well for me.

02:45
Kristen Hogan Doyle
They were loaded with chemicals, which is something that I don't like. They didn't smell great and ultimately just, you know, didn't have the efficacy that I was looking for. So kind of stood there and scratched my head and thought, huh. You know, this is kind of interesting. It's a category that feels right for modernization and better products, and then got a little bit more philosophical about it and just thought about how incredibly important our feet are to everything that we do. And movement in general is just so important for both our physical and our mental health. So why aren't we all taking better care of our feet?

03:13
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a great question. And as I was preparing to talk to you guys, I was thinking about how little I take care of my feet. And I was like, oh, I don't know when I've ever purchased something for my feet or. But I remember I went to, like, a massage therapist as a gift, and she was massaging my feet. And afterwards she was like, basically like, you need to wear better shoes and you need to take care of your feet. And I was like, oh, okay. I didn't even thought about that. So once you kind of came up with that question, you know, why aren't we taking better care of our feet? What were some of your next steps? To actually enter the category, you're definitely not allowing grace.

03:50
Matt Jacobs
I think, you know, one of the first things that Kristen and I did is we jumped into a bunch of research, and one of the things that we found to be really promising from a brand perspective is 50% of people don't do anything more than clip their nails. But there's this interesting contrast in that foot health is very much something that people are conscious of, and the connection between foot health and overall well being is another thing that people have started to grasp. Feet just still seem to be a little bit stigmatized, a little bit taboo, and for some reason, self care kind of stops at the end. And when Kristen first said, you know, hey, what about foot care? I was also a person who only really thought about my feet when they were injured.

04:27
Matt Jacobs
And what we've learned on our journey is kind of a big premise of our brand is around this idea of proactive foot wellness. So we did a bunch of research, kind of validated the category opportunity felt like there was room for a new brand, as Kristen mentioned, with more modern positioning and a more modern approach to formulation, and then really spent the next probably, I don't know, Kristin. Twelve to 16 months working on the actual products.

04:50
Kristen Hogan Doyle
Yeah, I think for us, it was from a product development perspective, and I've got a background in product development. So it was very much, how do we create accessible, affordable products, but that are super clean, extremely efficacious, and have the aesthetics of higher end products? So we. We partnered with some formulators and looked at manufacturers that specialized in the different formats of each of the products that we wanted to launch. So we've got salt product, we've got anhydrous product, which means product that's made without water, we've got an emulsion. So they're all very different product formats. We found the manufacturers that we felt were best suited to help us create each of these products and then got to work.

05:25
Kristen Hogan Doyle
And like Matt said, it took us between a year and a half to, and many iterations to get to the products that we felt really good about.

05:33
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. And as you guys are consumers yourselves, right, of these products, you're not necessarily afoot expert of what maybe you are now, but in the beginning of developing these products, who did you turn to test out the different iterations or get feedback on what was really necessary for foot health and foot care versus what's maybe something you would do at a salon or at a pedicure?

06:00
Kristen Hogan Doyle
Yeah. So we built a network of podiatrists, partners that we knew were experts in feet and foot health, and tap them for insights as we started the development process and then use them for product validation as we got different iterations and samples and things like that. We also tapped into the lots and lots of friends and family that had foot issues. So we would reach out to anyone and say, how are your feet? If anybody said that they were struggling, like, we have some products for you to try. So, you know, we really did it sort of from the ground up, built the products and the brand, really both from the ground up, but leaned on the experts wherever we could.

06:31
Kristen Hogan Doyle
So, podiatrists, we have a technical formulator partner that we've known for many years and have worked with on prior brands that we work with to help develop products as well. And just lots and lots of trial and error and time and patience.

06:43
Matt Jacobs
The ultimate litmus test, too, was Kristen's heels. So we knew we had something when those started to look pretty spectacular.

06:50
Grace Kennedy
I love that. You know, you are your best consumer, so it's easy and affordable to be your own tester. So I love that. So, obviously, you have your cracked heel repair. That's very much the origin of pedestrian project. But what are some of the other ways that people who are looking to take care of their feet can and should do that? Because, again, for someone like me, I'm like, I don't even know what I'm supposed to be doing to my feet. Like, I don't even know what the starting point is. So what are some of those starting points for consumers who might be newer to taking care of their feet?

07:27
Kristen Hogan Doyle
Yeah. So the most common foot issues are dry skin, cracked heels, pain, calluses, blisters, and sarah, probably the five most common. And so when we started to develop the line, were looking to help address each of those issues. And so I think what we always say to people is, at the bare minimum, everybody should be moisturizing their feet. So you need a really strong skin barrier and an elastic skin barrier to protect against infection and calluses and blisters and dry skin. And so what we recommend for everybody is to use the walker's cream daily or even twice daily. And then the cracked heel repair, as you said, is a little bit more of a targeted treatment for folks that suffer with cracked heels. But it's interesting how many people do. It's a really common problem that just hasn't been talked about very much.

08:09
Kristen Hogan Doyle
And then, you know, our salt soak was developed as a sort of the first step in any routine. So it's a great way to deodorize and soften calluses and sort of prepare the feet for whatever you do next, whether it be moisturization or pain relief. And then lastly, our relief balm that's created to adjust pain so many people suffer with plantar fasciitis and Wharton's neuroma and just all sorts of things that come along with being on your feet all day, and especially folks that are on the feet all day, whether it be teachers, nurses, doctors, athletes. And so the relief bond was a product that we put together with CBD and arnica and a bunch of natural pain relievers to help to relieve some of the pain and pressure that folks feel.

08:46
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, I imagine people who work in the restaurant industry might enjoy that, too. I used to work in the restaurant industry myself, and I definitely could have used a foot cream back in the days, but, Matt, were you about to say something?

08:58
Matt Jacobs
Well, as I say outside of our products, and I think we're at the onset of our kind of product innovation roadmap, but what you'd hear from a lot of our podiatrist partners. And I think Kristen and I believe, too, in addition to kind of daily moisturization and kind of overall just consciousness of your feet, thinking about how they feel and reacting to that, the simple act of just stretching your feet every day goes a long way. You know, having a ball that you can roll out under the fascia and then being mindful about kind of proper shoes and socks and all of that good stuff. So there are simple things that everyone can and should be doing.

09:31
Matt Jacobs
And I think for us, like I said earlier, it's really more of a proactive approach to try to avoid those things that can take you off of your feet. Cause I think for us, part of the mission of the brand is to hopefully enable and inspire more people to live more of their life on foot and be out in the world doing whatever it is that they love. Or, you know, for some people, it's their jobs. So a little bit of proactive care really can make the difference and prevent some of those disabling injuries that might occur.

09:55
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. And so in this new category space, or maybe it's not new, but you're modernizing the category space, how are you educating consumers on some of these things that you're talking about that, like I said, like someone like me doesn't really necessarily know to do, how are you getting that information across to potential consumers of pedestrian project?

10:15
Matt Jacobs
Yeah, it's a great question. And when we started this journey, I think one of the things were excited about is the white space in terms of education and content creation. It's a category that's really dominated by traditional legacy brands who are on shelf at the local drugstore. And so a big focus for us is content creation. We've been lucky enough to partner with some podiatrists who've really helped be on the forefront of consumable content. So it's content that we're leveraging across Instagram and TikTok, short format, but really digestible and informative around some of the basics of foot wellness, and then also looking to kind of build out longer format content. Looking at our website as a destination and hopefully over time, kind of continuing to partner with some specialty groups.

10:56
Matt Jacobs
So you mentioned the restaurant industry, but we also look at other, what we call foot dependent. So running groups, dancers, teachers, nurses, and we're hoping to kind of partner with folks in those communities to help us develop content and propagate content as well. Yeah.

11:10
Grace Kennedy
And how are you approaching those partnerships? Obviously, as an emerging brand, content creation partnerships can be expensive so how are you approaching both doing those partnerships? Because they're so important to getting your message out there, while also not blowing through all of your cash in one partnership?

11:28
Matt Jacobs
Yeah, totally. We're taking a very scrappy approach at the moment to it and very hands on. I think it's, a lot of it is authenticity in terms of those relationships. We were lucky. One of our first customers and advocates was actually a principal ballerina at the New York City ballet, which was a great validation for us. She said that these are the products that shes been waiting for somebody to create. So some relationships like that kind of serendipitously happen a bit. But weve also done a lot of outreach targeted trying to connect with people who we feel like reflect the brand, but also kind of live a life that is dependent upon their feet. So some of it has been really one to one.

12:05
Matt Jacobs
Most recently, Kristen's been out running with, running groups and introducing the brand through those avenues as well, but really trying to kind of authentically connect with people. And I think what's nice about our products is one or two uses and you automatically see the benefit, too. So it's a relatively easy conversion if we can get product in people's hands. And we've been pretty liberal with sharing product. I think we believe in the formulas that Kristin and the team developed, and we're trying to get them in the hands and on the feet of as many people as possible.

12:33
Kristen Hogan Doyle
Yeah. Sampling has been a big thrust for us just because we really do believe that once people try the product, they see the results quickly and then we're happy not only to use it, but also to talk about us.

12:43
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. And so you've just met these people, you know, in person, or you've sent out samples to potential partners in terms of sampling, that also made me think of these retail spaces. As you were saying, the foot aisle, you know, at my local cv's is hidden somewhere. I don't know where I. But how have you been approaching to getting into physical spaces, or have you been largely focused on DTC online for the moment?

13:11
Matt Jacobs
To date, our focus has definitely been d, two C and online. We are starting to. We're just at the beginning of our retail journey, so very excitingly. We're now live on shelf at central Market. We were just there this past week doing some demos in store, starting to expand to some other online retailers as well. We definitely see this brand eventually living hopefully across the full kind of food, drug masked landscape. And I think one of the things that we really believe in is that there are opportunities to grow the category. So we think that we can obviously steal some share with a product that we believe in and more modern positioning and brand.

13:46
Matt Jacobs
But our hope is that we can connect with the right buyers who see the opportunity to actually have this be a little bit of an incremental add on cart builder and potentially get some good secondary placements around the foot care aisle or even adjacent placements. And beauty and wellness. We tend to think of ourselves as a wellness brand first and foremost. We just happen to be focused on feet. And it's interesting because the foot care category tends to be more of an OTC buyer in a traditional retail environment. I think some of the more specialized stores might live in a different place, but navigating that journey is going to be something that we're excited about and hopefully kind of changing a little bit of the mindset around how retailers can approach foot care as well.

14:24
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. And what is sort of your pitch to retailers when you're saying, hey, I think you should change your mind about foot care, how do you communicate that to them? Because it is retailers and buyers, I feel like can get very stuck in the ways of the aisles and how everything works and the past and no shade to the buyers listening. But how you communicate like this is an opportunity to expand this category and to think about this category in a new way.

14:52
Matt Jacobs
I think Kristen and I both are really data minded. We really love validating things with consumer intelligence or retail data or just at the onset of those conversations. So we don't have a lot of experience to draw from. I think the opportunity though, when you look at the consumer data is, as I mentioned earlier, only a small set of folks really are proactively caring for their feet today. It's really a problem, solution needs state and it's reactive, which is, I think, why the category exists the way it does. Folks have an issue and they're making a beeline to a specific destination in store. But there's not a lot of natural discovery that's happening in a retail environment.

15:26
Matt Jacobs
And I think we specifically are targeting more of a wellness minded consumer who makes up a large share of the foot care category because they're more active, they're more conscious of their whole body and what they're putting in and on it. But only a fifth of that community is actively engaged in foot care today. So we think there's just tremendous upside. And what we've seen on our own d two C site is that when we can get somebody to come, they're not buying a single product as a reaction to some issue that they have. They're buying into a regimen, they're buying the bundles, they're buying into this idea of proactive wellness and foot care. So our aov has exceeded our expectations. Our repeat purchase rate is high.

16:01
Matt Jacobs
It's been really exciting to see kind of that behavior that we believe in being adopted, which has been really validating for us and I think hopefully will translate down the road as we have more of those buyer conversations.

16:11
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, if you're a buyer listening to this, open your mind, give them a call. But thinking too, about these customers that you have been surprised of their repeat purchase rates and they keep coming back. How do you get them to make that first purchase? Obviously you guys do those partnerships and things like that with your content creation, but what are some of your other approaches to marketing and getting that first purchase? Because then once they try it, like you said, they keep coming back. But how do you get that first purchase?

16:39
Matt Jacobs
Yeah, to date, I mean, we've been obviously relying on paid advertising for advertising across paid social, we're spending on Amazon. So we're making sure that we're showing up in the right places. And at the onset, I think making sure that were smart with our targeting to kind of get the products in front of folks, as Kristen mentioned earlier, who are more wellness minded. Theyre conscious about the ingredients that are in their products. If they are caring for their feet today, it might just be a simple body lotion that theyre using. And so a lot of our content really aims to explain the why our feet are different and how theyre unique and why our products are specifically formulated for that unique anatomy. In addition to that, were leveraging some press endorsements and some testimonials and before and aftersite.

17:21
Matt Jacobs
So a mix of different content formats. But I think a lot of early discovery is coming from our content that we're pushing in addition to, as Kristen mentioned, I think we're seeing some really good word of mouth. There's a lot of opportunity for us as we look to kind of ramp up our affiliate marketing and those types of avenues. But I think a lot of the discovery today is getting in front of the right folks who are open to this kind of addition to their regimen.

17:44
Kristen Hogan Doyle
Yeah. And I think we found too that it doesn't take much. You know, it's just that these conversations aren't being had and people aren't being offered any education around feed or products that they're excited to try. And so I think, you know, for us it's just been opening up the dialogue and it's kind of like opening the floodgates. Everybody has a story about their feet and you know, and says how much they need foot care and they need to be focused more on it. It's just not, has a bit of priority.

18:06
Grace Kennedy
Totally. I mean, even throughout this conversation I think I've thought of like at least five people in my life who I'm like, oh, they really have liked a foot care product. Or like my partner hiked, you know, is a through hiker and does these huge long hikes. I'm like, oh my God, this would have been perfect for that. It's interesting, like you're saying, it's not something I've personally really considered. And then as soon as I'm having this conversation I'm like, oh man, I guess, yeah, there's my grandma, my dad, my partner, all these people myself. So I love that just starting the conversation is really creating opportunity here. Matt, I wanted to return to one thing you brought up briefly, which is ramping up that affiliate marketing. What has been your approach to that avenue in terms of getting customers, bringing in affiliates?

18:47
Grace Kennedy
What's been your approach to affiliate marketing?

18:49
Matt Jacobs
Yeah, so obviously a couple of different avenues as relates to that. On the publisher side, early on we set ourselves up with chair sale and skimlinks underneath that and kind of just made sure that the underpinnings that were required for editors and publishers to be able to drive to us, or oftentimes we see them drive to Amazon just based on the value that brings back to them too. So we made sure early on that we had that structural setup in place there. And then we did do a little bit of early kind of structure, press outreach and introductions just to try to get the product in as many editors hands as possible. I think the bigger opportunity that we see is more on kind of individual affiliate side.

19:29
Matt Jacobs
So we leverage plugin for Shopify and then we're starting to see some really good success on TikTok shop as well. That's a newer channel for us. But looking again just to get product in people's hands, I think we have seen people kind of proactively reach out to us who have an issue if it's cracked heels or foot pain, and they're excited for the products and then based on how effective they are, they're naturally starting to transition into content creators. And we're fully supportive of putting money in the pockets of those individuals as opposed to spending unpaid ads and I think that true endorsement of I've used this product, it's transformed my feet sometimes. There's a really compelling visual that comes along with that has been really helpful.

20:08
Matt Jacobs
And I think it's going to continue to be a priority for us just as the overall landscape shifts more and more to kind of content creation and affiliates driving online commerce.

20:17
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. And coming back to the products themselves. I'm curious, obviously you've got this beautiful line of products, but have you been developing any other new products in this space since you've launched?

20:31
Kristen Hogan Doyle
Yeah, so we've got a couple of additional topical products that are just starting the development and then actually just completed development on some insoles. So we're super excited to launch two sets of insoles. One is a full foot insole and the other is a ball of foot insole that you could use if you're wearing high heels. And they're called we trade marketing shoe bellows. We're super excited to get those out in the market, hopefully within the next six months or so. That's awesome.

20:53
Grace Kennedy
That's actually exactly what the massage therapist who told me I knew to take care of my feet, she told me to get some insoles. So that's good to know that you guys are coming out with that, but very exciting and excited to see what some of those other topicals you guys are bringing in to the space. Thinking a little bit more broadly about just modernizing a category and sort of carving out your niche within it. What advice would you give to a fellow brand who's maybe similarly wanting to carve out a niche or modernize a category in this wellness space that is very crowded, there's a lot of noise. There's like a million products you could buy at any given moment. What sort of advice would you give to a brand who is. Yeah. Trying to carve out their own niche in this space?

21:39
Kristen Hogan Doyle
That's a great question. I could start, Matt, and then you can jump in. I think, first and foremost, it's really understanding the consumer and the consumer need and then making sure that both your products and your messaging are delivering, you know, because then you're very quickly sort of creating a trust and a relationship and understanding between you, I think, too, is looking at the competitive landscape and seeing really where is that white space and who else might be doing something similar to what you're doing? And is there an opportunity to do that better or to position yourself slightly differently? So I think it's, you know, at the outset, really understanding both the consumer and the category.

22:12
Matt Jacobs
It's also, I mean, it's tough. I think Kristen and I have both worked in personal care for the majority of our careers, and there aren't a lot of categories left to modernize, which is for us. I think speed to market was also important. And I think when you do have an opportunity, if you really believe in it, go for it before somebody else does.

22:29
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. I'm sure there was somebody else who had thought of the idea to modernize foot care, and you guys beat them to it. So that is definitely very true. In the wellness space. I can't even think of another. I feel like every day there's some new product that's like an old version but better, and like, oh, God, another thing that I need to get a better version of, I'm overwhelmed. But speaking to some of that challenge of breaking through in this market and just the challenges of the wellness industry in general, what has been some of the greatest challenges of running pedestrian project and breaking through to customers over these last few years? And maybe, Matt, we can start with you.

23:09
Matt Jacobs
Yeah, we didnt time this perfectly. We started working on this pre Covid and then were in the early stages of true development, manufacturing. And I think at least as it relates to kind of the potential road bumps that you hit when youre making a product. We hit most of them. Canals were closed and ingredients were unavailable and lead times were incredibly long. Costs were higher than expected. So we had to navigate through a lot of that just to actually get product into a warehouse to be able to sell. So that was definitely a challenge that we overcame pretty early on. And then I think simultaneously, as we look big picture, weve got large aspirations for this brand and were trying to make sure that we grow it the right way from the ground up.

23:49
Matt Jacobs
But overall, I think the consumer landscape is just getting challenging in terms of acquisition costs on social media. And I think the fundraising market is continuing to shrink. Were trying to navigate through all of that and ensure that we see this long term as a brand that everyone hopefully should be using. So we see it as omnichannel, we see it as accessible, and we want to just get in front of as many people as possible. And I think maybe not a specific answer, but just kind of navigating the new kind of consumer world and trying to do it in a way that feels authentic to ourselves but helps us kind of spread the message and spread the brand as quickly as we can.

24:25
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. How have you been, this is maybe a challenging question, but how have you been navigating this shrinking fundraising market because I think every single founder I've spoken to recently has mentioned that and just mentioned how hard it is. And some people are going the crowdfunding route and some people are self funding or bootstrapping. How have you been navigating? Just. Yeah, this shrinking of resources and fundraising.

24:49
Matt Jacobs
We were lucky to have some friends and family who supporting us early on, so we had a small round and then we've really been kind of bootstrapping it to date and have been able to kind of maintain the brand that way, which has been enlightening and exciting. I think we're just at the onset of really going out to try to raise our first formal round of capital. So well, probably have some more stories to tell in battle scars in the coming months. But I definitely think what weve heard from a few early conversations is just, I think theres more of a desire for proof of concept and validation. So that first hurdle has gotten a little bit higher than where it was in previous years.

25:26
Matt Jacobs
And so I think its being scrappy and resourceful to try to get to kind of be a revenue rate or a certain po thats in your pocket. You know, I think obviously it's helpful to have more cash to unlock those things, but we're just kind of grinding away at it and hoping that our story and our early metrics and ensuring that we've got the right data to showcase, you know, we've proven up market fit, we've got the backend metrics on our d two c to kind of tell a compelling story. So hoping that connects and translates and we can find the right partners who believe in the opportunity.

25:56
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. Since you've been bootstrapping largely since you launched, how have you been navigating the tricky balance of growing while staying lean and not running through all your cash at once, how have you been finding that balance?

26:11
Kristen Hogan Doyle
Matt and I are both very hands on right now, doing everything which actually has, it's obviously hard, but it's also a great way to really understand the ins and outs of every aspect of the business. And I think we probably wouldn't change that even if we had money at the, in the early, very early stages.

26:30
Matt Jacobs
I think it's a challenge. I think we're eager. We're kind of chopping at the bit to go big and get out there. I think at the end of the day, we are being a little bit more conservative to ensure that we've got a Runway and that we're not sacrificing the long term to take a gamble in the short term, but it's tough. I think it's a challenge, and I'm sure many of the brands in the startup CPG community probably are feeling it as well. So we're continuing to grow and we're seeing really good success. It just is. We're doing it in a way that is a little more conservative than if we had a little bit more cash in the bank to kind of run with.

27:04
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. In a way, though, too. It's forcing you to be sustainable with your growth. Right. It's forcing you to not go huge and then suddenly have more than you can handle, and it all crashes and burns. So sometimes I think that bootstrapping, while very stressful, can also be this hidden bonus of you're forced to just be so intentional about every single choice you make and every dollar you spend, which means that it's potentially more effective.

27:31
Matt Jacobs
So, and I think there's a nice domino effect, too. I think just to add on to that of, like, I think we're seeing very clearly, like, one thing leading to another in a way that feels really, to your point, kind of intentional, and we're learning and growing and kind of, I think hopefully one thing will continue to lead to the next.

27:50
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. I hope that for you guys, too.

27:54
Matt Jacobs
Thank you.

27:55
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. So you mentioned something, Kristen, about it just being the two of you as the pedestrian project full time employees. So how do you guys balance the workload as co founders? I've definitely talked to solo founders who are like, oh, it'd probably be so nice to have a co founder, but I also know their own challenges of working as a duo and having to know who does what and who's responsible for what. So how do you guys find that work balance between the two as co founders?

28:24
Kristen Hogan Doyle
Yeah, I mean, first of all, I'd say it's very nice to have a co founder to be able to share both the work, but also sharing the worry and sharing the excitement and sort of riding the journey with someone. In terms of our division of labor, you know, I think it probably winds up coming back to where our backgrounds are. So my background is in brand development, product development, and consumer insights. So I'm doing a lot on that front in terms of developing the products and fine tuning, positioning and messaging and things like that, whereas math background is on the digital marketing side. So he's great at all the media and marketing and a lot of the back end work that needs to get done.

28:57
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. Matt, were you going to say something?

29:00
Matt Jacobs
What's nice is Kristen and I have partnered on other projects, and this is our first entrepreneurial adventure. But we've helped build other brands in the past, too. So I think we came into it with a pretty good understanding of strengths and skill sets. So it helped as went into it. And I think what each of us brings to the table, the brand probably doesn't exist without that part. So it's been nice to, again, to kind of like, know that you've got a partner who's an expert and incredibly skilled and you have a lot of trust in. And I think, to Kristen's point, too, like, it's an emotional roller coaster. And so having somebody else next to you screaming and laughing and, you know, on that journey has been, I think it helps with the ups and the downs along the way.

29:38
Grace Kennedy
Absolutely. I definitely think you need to have someone to sort of scream into the pillow with if you're just screaming into the void. It might get a bit challenging given all of the many struggles that come with being an entrepreneur. But there's also many wonderful things which, speaking of the wonderful things, what, as we wrap up our conversation, I'd love to hear from both of you and maybe, Kristen, we can start with you. But what has been one of your proudest moments since starting pedestrian project? And what is one of those things that when you're screaming into the pillow is like, no, I'm on the right path and I'm excited to keep going?

30:14
Kristen Hogan Doyle
Yeah. I think for me it's hearing the feedback from consumers. So we have people that leave reviews and people that send us emails and when they talk about how the products have really changed their feed and have solved a problem that they've had for years and things like that, I think that the sort of real world consumer testimonials and validation is what brings me the greatest joy and gets me most excited because it just makes me feel like if we can just get the product out to more people, we'll be.

30:38
Matt Jacobs
Able to help anymore.

30:39
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. And what about you, Matt?

30:42
Matt Jacobs
Its funny. I was just in central market stores last week and seeing something that we built that was kind of a pipe dream five years ago on a shelf next to all these other brands that we admire and consume. It still is a little bit of a pinch me moment. And so I think when im able to take a step back and look big picture at what weve been able to accomplish and build. And to Kristins point, the response that weve gotten, it does feel really satisfying and rewarding. And I think, you know, the other thing is, I think Kristen and I both talk about feet a lot more than the average person. So, you know, if I find myself a school function or a neighborhood block party and somebody asks what you do, inevitably they start telling you about your feet.

31:20
Matt Jacobs
And I think that idea that there still is so much unmet consumer opportunity is something that keeps me really excited. And the fact that, you know, every time you talk to somebody, they're really interested and they're really into it, and it feels like we're on to something.

31:33
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. You're like at the barbecue diagnosing everybody's foot problems. I think I see some cracked heels over there. Do you want to try the cat cracked heel repair? That's great. And, yeah, definitely more people need that. So as we wrap up, where can people learn more about pedestrian project? Find your products, but also just learn more about the mission, the brand, et cetera.

31:57
Matt Jacobs
Yeah. The best place is our website, which is pedestrianproject.com dot. And in addition to the products, there is some information about the project side, which is something I don't think we talked a ton about. But our hope is really to be a part of communities and enabling and inspiring people to get out there and be on their feet. So as we grow, that'll be a big focus for us, as well as community walks and runs and cleanups and all that good stuff. But our website is a great destination. And then some of that educational content. You can visit us on TikTok on Instagram. Great places to see a lot of that partner content from podiatrists and some of our own tips and tricks and recommendations for how to keep your feet healthy and on the go.

32:33
Grace Kennedy
I love it. Amazing. Well, it was so much fun to talk to you both and to learn more about pedestrian project. And I definitely did exactly what you're saying, which is immediately talked about my own feet as you brought up foot care, so now I see how that happens. But it was so much fun, and I feel like I learned something myself today. So excited to see where pedestrian project goes from here. And yeah, hope you all enjoyed this episode.

33:00
Matt Jacobs
Thanks so much, Grace, for having me.

33:02
Grace Kennedy
Thanks. All right, everyone, thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode of the podcast, it would help us out so much if you left a five star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. I am Grace Kennedy, the editor for startup CPG, so feel free to add me on LinkedIn or reach out to me on Slack. I'm always on the hunt for new and exciting brands to feature, and if you're a potential sponsor that would like to appear on the podcast, please email partnershipsartupcpg.com dot. And finally, as a reminder for anyone listening, if you haven't already, we would love for you to join our community on Slack and you can sign up via our website, startupcpg.com dot.