The Startup CPG Podcast

Noah Philips
I think when I first was thinking about this, I was asking around, do people eat honey? And everybody says, yes, do you have honey? Yes. What kind of honey do you have? And not a single person answered what honey they had. They might say, oh, I got it from the sweet couple at the farmer's market, or I just went whole foods with whatever was on the counter. And I thought, it's so interesting that we kind of have preference or knowledge about the products that we bring into our home. But honey was just this generic, forgettable sort of like category. But at the same time, everybody has honey.

00:46
Caitlin Bricker
Hey, everybody. This is Caitlin Bricker, Managing Editor at Startup CPG. We are back with another founder feature. Today, I'm sitting down with Noah Phillips, founder of Honey Department. He's doing honey differently. It's thicker and it's in a tube. Noah comes from advertising and design, and when his beekeeper father asked him to design labels for his honey, he started questioning why the honey category hasn't been modernized since the 1950s bear bottle. We're diving into why he chose a tube format, what creamed honey actually is, and how the microcrystal process works, his strategic decision to avoid traditional honey shelves at launch, and why staying independent and specialty retail actually makes the psychological purchase decision much strong. We hear from founders on this podcast every week. If you're a brand and want to get new opportunities right in your inbox, text CPG to 833-605-7002.

01:40
Caitlin Bricker
That's 833-605-7002 and we'll get you hooked up. As always, enjoy. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Startup CPG podcast. This is Caitlin, and today I'm here with Noah Phillips founder of Honey Department. Noah, welcome to the show.

01:59
Noah Philips
Thank you for having me. Good to chat.

02:01
Caitlin Bricker
It's great to have you here. I feel like honey Department has quickly become the honey scene around the world. You came out of nowhere and then you were all over my Instagram feed, all over my LinkedIn feed. It seemed like you were applying to every opportunity through Startup CPG, which we highly encourage. So tell us, what is honey Department?

02:22
Noah Philips
Honey Department is 100% raw honey, just made thicker and then squeezed from a tube for daily use.

02:29
Caitlin Bricker
It's perfect. And I did a face mask with it last night. I love honey because it's a humectant. Helps keep the moisture in your skin. It's one of my favorite things to mask with in the springtime. It's a little hard when you have the ants around and don't want anything touching you, but it is fantastic. I had such a good experience using it on my skin and had it in some tea this morning. It's elite. So there are so many things going on with Honey Department. The packaging obviously just screams at people because it's unlike anything anybody is seeing on shelves right now. So I have to know before we dive in, what is your background? Where are you coming from?

03:08
Noah Philips
My background is in advertising and design. So my career has been working for agencies and brands and for the last decade plus I've been freelancing on every type of brand and product. And then on the side I have a design studio, foreign national and do some brand identity, do some product design, furniture and it's kind of, I call it a creative cat. So I've been doing those two in tandem until earlier this year when I launched Honey Department.

03:37
Caitlin Bricker
And is honey Department eating up most of your time now?

03:40
Noah Philips
Do you feel then some, you know, it's self funded and you gotta pay the bills and then you gotta order more honey. So I do take on some additional projects on the side and it's nice to have other creative outlets. But Honey Department is a full time job and then some doing this solo and yeah, it's full on.

03:58
Caitlin Bricker
Even though you're doing it solo, you are not alone. Because I feel like many founders who are in the emerging brand space are doing it solo until they can hit that point where they feel like, okay, I'm ready to help bring other people in and help me and turn this thing into something super big. Your design background makes a ton of sense because the packaging is absolutely gorgeous. It's so simple, but it just grabs the attention even on a screen. Can you walk us through why you decided to use a tube for your honey?

04:30
Noah Philips
Yeah, well, to go back a little bit, my dad's a hobbyist beekeeper and so I have been around beekeeping and grew up in a honey loving household. And I love honey. And he a few years ago asked me to make some labels for his honey, which it started to just make me think like why are there all these sort of standards and cliches and tropes in honey industry? It was either commercial honey that comes in a plastic bottle like a Squeeze the Bear, which no brand owns and has been around since the 50s, or there's glass jars and often in the shape of a honeycomb because beekeepers love literal and theme and bee puns. And I just looked at it and I thought this is such a universally loved ingredient. But it hasn't really Been modernized in forever.

05:18
Noah Philips
And I thought it's both a branding issue, but also maybe a packaging issue, that honey is just uninviting. It's sticky, it's messy. You feel like you need to just shower after using it. And so thinking about these two things in the background just kept sort of nagging at me. And I just thought, you know, there's gotta be a better way, there's gotta be a better form factor. And I thought of a couple tested, a couple that were absolute fails. And then I got to the tube and then picking up at the tube, liquid honey is great, but creamed honey is an even better version of honey. Still single ingredient, but it's a little less sweet, thicker, smoother, more sort of like a buttery, spreadable texture. And I thought that combined with the tube made a lot of sense.

06:04
Noah Philips
And why has this not been done? And then let's figure out exactly why.

06:08
Caitlin Bricker
Last night, when I was doing the face mask, granted that I had a dad grass gummy prior to doing my face mask, I was just looking at it and I thought, wow, this really feels like this is my tube of paint and I'm using my canvas right now. It was just a really cool experience. And I think you really are nailing it all around. I saw you on Dieline a few months ago and it's seemed like it was right after you had launched. What does it feel like getting that reception from the industry and from consumers so quickly?

06:41
Noah Philips
It was great. You know, I look at things as a designer and art director and have to remember that most of the audience doesn't see things that way and doesn't care about typography and design. But I do always believe that they recognize it, even if they're not aware of it. You know, this is true for all branding and products and design. And I knew it was fresh and it would be well received. Like always a little bit nervous, have a design community versus sort of customer audience receives it. And it was just really nice to be recognized by publications like Dieline and other places that it was like posted that the design part of it was just as well received as the tube and the product once people started to try it.

07:23
Noah Philips
But recognizing that before people try it, they're gonna see the packaging, they're gonna see it on the shelf, they're gonna see it online. Can't try it over the Internet. So I just knew that the packaging is a billboard, It's a representation of your brand. And so I'm just glad that the design of that came through as Intended Absolutely does.

07:43
Caitlin Bricker
And it's very interesting what you were saying about the bear shaped honey and these honeycomb shaped jars. Because I've never thought about that before. I have never thought, oh, I'm seeing the same design throughout the entire aisle or something boring, for lack of a better word. I've never thought about it like that. And I think you are really honing in on something very important, which is if somebody purchases honey Department, they have this pride in what they're buying. I don't think I've ever purchased honey before and taken a picture of it. But with your tube it, why wouldn't I. Why wouldn't I want to show this off to people?

08:25
Noah Philips
Well, that's good to hear. A lot of people are taking photos of their generic air in plastic squeeze bottle. I mean, that's really good to hear. I think when I first was thinking about this, I was asking around, do people eat honey? And everybody says, yes, do you have honey? Yes. What kind of honey do you have? And not a single person answered what honey they have. They might say, oh, I got it from the sweet couple at the farmer's market, or I just went whole foods with whatever was on the counter. And I thought, it's so interesting that we kind of have preference or knowledge about the products that we bring into our home. But honey was just this generic, forgettable, sort of like category. But at the same time, everybody has honey.

09:08
Noah Philips
They have it in their home, but they often rarely use it and then put it in the cupboard and it crystallizes and gets sticky and dirty and you toss it out when you move apartments. And I wanted to change the behavior, make it a little bit more routine, make it daily use, get it out of the pantry and onto the counter and off of the counter into your bag and take it with you. And so I'm starting to notice how people are using it in a different way. The form factor changes that behavior really easily. So it's not forgotten about with spices you never use in the back of the cupboard, but now it is always there and inviting for you to be able to pick up, twist the cap off and apply it to whatever you're eating.

09:47
Caitlin Bricker
It feels kind of shameful to put it behind a cabinet door, honestly. Like, it feels like a product that needs to be front and center. And it definitely is a conversation piece. I've had people over my house who have been like, what is this? They thought I had like a tube of toothpaste on the counter or like weren't sure. So it's a Conversation piece. Absolutely, without a doubt. And I'm very curious about your dad's beekeeping background too, because I think clarity, clearly this all ties in, but the fact that it seems to me, not having a beekeeping background, that honey is labor intensive, from what it seems like, and then to have it kind of feel like this forgotten item that's in a cupboard that people are like, well, they don't need to call it a brand name.

10:31
Caitlin Bricker
I think what you're doing, changing the conversation, is really interesting. So can you tell us a little bit more about the beekeeping process and what it looks like to actually manufacture a honey product?

10:42
Noah Philips
Yeah, I mean, beekeeping is not easy and it's become more difficult over especially the last couple decades as well. It's incredibly labor intensive. It's dependent on weather, season. There's mites, there's pesticides, the bees do what they're going to do. And there's the pollinating industry, when bees are just being trucked around the US to go pollinate almond farms. And it's become really difficult, more difficult than ever to be a beekeeper. And the flooding of fake honey from overseas. It's estimated that around 70% of honey is actually not real honey. It's cut with corn syrup, it's mixed, it's mislabeled. And I think most people are really just eating glorified sugar with a little bit of honey and a misleading label. We source our bee, our honey, from a farmer's co op in central Mexico.

11:37
Noah Philips
They care about the bees, take good care of the bees and love what they produce. But it takes a lot of hives and a lot of bees to make honey. And when they're happy and the environment is right, they will produce quite a bit. But it's a lot like the wine industry, where it just changes seasonally and you're a bit at the mercy of the conditions and nature and it's hard to control that. So it's not the easiest thing to produce and to replicate. But where we're sourcing it from has been consistently great honey with great beekeeping practices and was important to us because like many agricultural industries, there's a lot of shadiness and false claims and bad products going around.

12:20
Caitlin Bricker
What did it look like for you to identify a manufacturer for your honey? Can you tell us a little bit about the process and what that looked like?

12:28
Noah Philips
Yeah, I thought it would be much easier to find a good source of honey, figuring how much beekeeping is done. I was trying to focus on the US originally, but there's just so much beekeeping being done and so much source of bulk honey. But it's then finding the right partner. The relationship is incredibly important to me. And I wanted to understand who I'm working with and how they're producing and how they're running their company. They have to be open to wholesaling, a lot of them, either wholesale to very large commercial like honey producers, or they're keeping it for themselves and running their own sort of mom and pop honey business. And then the creamed honey was actually a very difficult part.

13:07
Noah Philips
It's easy to source enough liquid honey in bulk, but to find someone who can process liquid honey into creamed honey, while a simple process, try to find the right sort of texture and process to create the product that we wanted, it was a little difficult. So with those three things sourced and tried so many honeys, I had dozens of little jars and destroying my palate, just try to find the right one. But ended up finding a family owned apiary in Texas. They source their own honey on the farm, they have their own bees, but they also work with other farmers depending on the type of honey that we needed. So working with them, we sourced from Mexico and we have dialed in with them this unique process of processing the honey to get to the thickness, the ideal texture that we wanted.

13:58
Caitlin Bricker
And can you just give us a rundown on what the difference between a typical honey you see in a grocery store versus a creamed honey is?

14:05
Noah Philips
Yeah, so we're calling it thick honey because it's a creamed honey, but it's our own sort of texture that we wanted to get right for both eating and also dispensing from the tube. Creamed honey is still just honey. It's just honey in a different outfit. When you have liquid honey and you leave it on the counter for too long and it gets sort of crusty and crystallized. We intentionally do that. So we take crystals, which you call the seed, and you mix it in with liquid honey. And when you do that very slowly, which we do over a couple days, it forms microcrystals. And so if you stir it slowly and you're patient and stir it consistently, it'll form microcrystals to the point where you're not really tasting the sort of like grittiness of the crystals.

14:48
Noah Philips
And the great benefit of it is once it gets to that texture, it's set in that texture so it won't get crusty or crystallize over time like liquid honey often does. So it's just a more stable product. It's about 25% less sweeter because you're increasing the mass of it. I think it's just more usable than liquid honey and less likely to just be mixed in and used as an alternative sweetener. And now you can use it as a condiment, a spread, a topping, which you could do with liquid honey. Just makes it more of a versatile version of it.

15:21
Caitlin Bricker
And it also seems like a very little bit goes a long way. It's probably such an overused phrase in this industry, but it is the truth.

15:29
Noah Philips
Yeah.

15:29
Caitlin Bricker
And I'm curious to hear your tips that you might have for consumers and retailers, aside from buying and stocking honey Department, what can they look for to know that they are not getting an adulterated honey when they're purchasing?

15:46
Noah Philips
It's tough to know because it's not that well regulated. And there are some very sort of sneaky tricks that these commercial importers have been doing for years that have been hoodwinking the American customer on what they think they're buying is honey. And it's not. I mean, avoid the big commercial importers. I would say if you look and there's blends, I'm not against blends from different countries, but that's usually a giveaway that they're sourcing through a bunch of places and be sort of mixing in something extra. And then also the color, we have incredibly yellow honey. It almost looks fake that it's very real. Another reason we love the source of the honey that were getting the yellower the honey, the real are the honey. So when you see very light honey, even if it is real honey, it's probably not great honey.

16:36
Noah Philips
The bees didn't produce really great. And the honey can come in different colors and different tastes. And there's very dark honey and there's very light honey. But typically, if you go and look on grocery store shelves and you see commercial honey, a lot of it just has this sort of pale color and it kind of looks a little bit like corn syrup. And so we pride ourselves on. On the color of our honey because it's super yellow, which means 100% raw, super real and authentic.

17:00
Caitlin Bricker
Good tips. So essentially, stay away from the white breads of honey on the shelves.

17:05
Noah Philips
I would say that for most products, but definitely for honey. I think you're really just buying glorified sugar at that point.

17:11
Caitlin Bricker
Yum. Great.

17:13
Noah Philips
We get enough of that, I bet.

17:16
Caitlin Bricker
I'm curious about the logistics for the nature of your product with the tube. How are you able to ship your product and still keep the Shape of the tube intact without any leakage. And have you run into any disasters in the process of figuring this out?

17:33
Noah Philips
Yes, I wouldn't say disasters. But you know, in picking the aluminum tube I hadn't quite considered versus the plastic tubes, how easily the aluminum tube indented. I love the show of wear, the use over time as you sort of squeeze it and mangle it and twist it around and not meant to be that precious and stay that pristine, but shipping it, I'd like it to arrive to customers looking as good as it can how it came off of the factory line. So we've been very careful about wrapping it carefully and packaging it out. But as we scale up multiple find other solutions. And so you're going to be the first to see it. But we are moving to cartons that's fresh and also introducing the smaller size.

18:17
Noah Philips
And so it's a way of protecting it, making it more retail friendly while also being able to show off the differentiation. But there's the tube. We didn't want to do a cutout and it's difficult to just have the tube standing on the counter on its cap staying balanced. So we're moving to the curtains to make them more protected when they're shipping and to make them better for retail display so that they're shelf ready and retail ready.

18:41
Caitlin Bricker
It's gorgeous. And what is your retail strategy looking like? What types of markets, what types of retailers are you looking to target with this?

18:49
Noah Philips
I don't want to be on the honey shelves right away. I don't want to get lost in that mix. Even though we look different than the rest of them. I just think strategically you're positioning yourself as part of the same category. And while we are honey, I just think there's so many differentiations of both the packaging, the product itself and its use. And it's very sort of design minded and shelf stable that doesn't necessarily need to be on the honey shelf. And eventually, yes, I'd like to be in grocery and let that be an option for someone who is seeking out honey in a grocery store. But to start, for the first few months we're really focusing on more independent and specialty retail and finding placement where it's not standing up next to a dozen other companies and just becomes another decision.

19:35
Noah Philips
I want this to be a very intentional purchase decision and so surprising people in places where they might not expect or think about honey. I think the psychology of that and the strategy and positioning of all says a lot. So we're really focused on avoiding traditional grocery and traditional honey shelves right out the gate and finding more interesting retail to be able to position it in.

20:00
Caitlin Bricker
This definitely seems like the type of product that I used to be a retail buyer and I would have been all over this. I worked independent Natural Grocery. It was a. An independent natural retailer in Cambridge, Mass. But we loved an aesthetic product that was actually functional and effective. And this just to me is something that I could totally see in a body care set in a beauty care set in a hotel. And for sure, like, this would be something that I'm absolutely going to be gifting in the holiday season to be like the white elephant gift. Like, why would somebody be excited about receiving honey until they see a honey Department too? It has legs. It's very exciting to see you grow.

20:42
Noah Philips
Oh, well, that's exciting to hear because I'm very excited for the gifting season and moving into the holidays because I think this is the type of thing that you're invited to a dinner party and you show up with this and you know that it can be used with whatever is being served, whether that's in a charcuterie and cheese board or appetizers, or you just leave it on the table as like a table condiment to be used freely. There are no rules. Not. And it's been exciting to see how people are using it and rethinking it, you know, beyond just tea and yogurt bowls. And we're putting together a honey starter gifting set and we're going to be doing some collaborations.

21:17
Noah Philips
I think that moving into the holiday season, it's such a, like you said, no brainer gift, whether it's white elephant or part of another, showing up to our house with some food or maybe in place of a bottle of wine.

21:29
Caitlin Bricker
Exactly.

21:30
Noah Philips
And so I think you wouldn't just show up with a plastic berry of honey to give to your friend when invited for dinner. But I think that this maybe justifies a thoughtful gift.

21:38
Caitlin Bricker
You just mentioned it, but my next question for you is gonna be like, what dream collabs would you love to see happen?

21:45
Noah Philips
Oh, my God. I don't know how to answer that right now.

21:48
Caitlin Bricker
You don't have to. No pressure.

21:50
Noah Philips
Yeah, I have an endless list we've already been speaking to some about. And we're planning, I can't announce them yet, of some interesting collabs for like the fall. And definitely pairing with similar products who have great food and also great design and packaging and we feel aligned. And then there's plenty of others that are collabs I'd like to do in the next year or two. Maybe not quite yet, but collabs are all over the place, and it's sort of, you know, overdone by, like, every brand. And again, I don't want to just become, you know, yet another sort of episodic sort of feature with, like, another brand. It's finding brands that have not overdone the collabs who are just as thoughtful and intentional doing, you know, less but better. So an ongoing list of those constantly of who I would like to collaborate with.

22:38
Noah Philips
And I think the versatility of the product just makes it so easy. From ice cream to bakeries to coffee shops to, yeah, even hotels and retail.

22:48
Caitlin Bricker
I feel like I went to a place called Anz in San Diego. Are you familiar with this ice cream shop? Unlike any ice cream shop I've ever been into. It feels like it might be your vibe. It was like I was stepping into a laundromat. Like, it had the cartoon drawings that you'd see in a typical older Laundromat. And you go in and it's as if you were going to put your dry cleaning up. And they had very unique flavors. But I feel like this would totally be something that Anz would dig for sure.

23:19
Noah Philips
Cool. Hans, if you're listening, let's. Let's do it.

23:23
Caitlin Bricker
I have to send you a link. It was a really great experience. I think we waited in line for, like, 30 minutes for ice cream. People came out and gave us, like, palette cleansers of a different flavor of ice cream while were waiting. And then they take you in group by group. It was an elite experience. So Honey Department would definitely fit in.

23:41
Noah Philips
Well, we already get to San Diego. I'm already steaming our nationwide takeover, so that would be great.

23:48
Caitlin Bricker
Perfect. Perfect. All right. Well, speaking of nationwide takeovers, where can everybody find you? What's your Instagram? What's your website?

23:55
Noah Philips
Well, we been trying to scale up and meet Honey demands, and this is always the story of a new brand just trying to move from sort of phase one into phase two. And I'm excited that the demand is out there. So we've been working tirelessly on a restock and hidden some delightful snags along the way. But we are officially restocked, and orders are available at honeydepartment. Org and our Instagram is at the Honeydep. And we will be launching into retail in the next couple weeks as well, mostly in New York, some other cities in the US and so follow along and find all of our locations.

24:33
Noah Philips
But right now, buy it off the website and we are restocked and shipping next week and also excited that we're introducing the pocket tubes, the little ones, which been using for promotion and sampling and little sort of bonus gifts. But a lot of people have been reaching out asking if these are going to be available. So think ahead of schedule. But these will be also available for sale starting next week as well.

24:56
Caitlin Bricker
You had sent me the big one and the little one, and I had gifted the little one to my friend Mary, who's an esthetician and she was crazy about it. So thank you for that.

25:07
Noah Philips
I got to get you and Mary some more of the pocket tubes. I think especially the women have been really big fans of the little tooth. And I think it just goes in the bag along with keys, wallet, lip gloss, and now honey. And exactly that was the intention. So I would love it for people to have it on them, take it around and you never have to awkwardly ask for honey at a restaurant or a coffee shop anymore.

25:29
Caitlin Bricker
I remember the days when people used to carry around salad dressing and hot sauces in their pockets. What was it like the south beach diet days?

25:36
Noah Philips
Yeah, but that ranch era. Yes, but again, it's like crazy if you were carrying around a bear or a jar of honey in your bag. But I don't think it's so crazy to have a tube in your pocket or your bag or leave it at your desk. And so I am just trying to make it more accessible and more inviting and more portable than any honey has ever been before.

25:57
Caitlin Bricker
You're doing it. It's live. Noah. It's been so fun talking to you. Great to finally virtually meet you and put a face to the name and to honey Department. I'm super exc for where the next year is going to take you, so I'll definitely want an update a year from now.

26:14
Noah Philips
Of course. Thanks so much for the chat and thank you for leading the charge on the face mask honey Department application. It can be topical. I launched it for eating. But if you want to put it in your face mask, go for it.

26:26
Caitlin Bricker
Please do it. I highly recommend your skin will be missing out if you do not put honey Department on your face. That's all I'm going to say. Thank you know I'll talk to you soon.

26:36
Noah Philips
Thank you. Okay, bye.

26:39
Caitlin Bricker
CPG BFFs. We've now arrived together at the end of another episode of the Startup CPG podcast. As you may know, we're not just the top globally ranked CPG podcast. We're a community of tens of thousands of CPG founders and experts and you should join us if you haven't already. Head to startupcpg.com to sign up. You'll get an invite to our Slack community, hear about events near you, and get access to opportunities that connect you with buyers, investors and other brands. It's free, so what are you waiting for? I'll see you in Slack and in real life. Thanks for listening.