The Startup CPG Podcast

Ranwei Chiang
So on premise, it's been so much fun because I think just like the consumer, bartenders are looking for fun, innovative products to use for their cocktails. And so because we have the whole range of products, it's really nice to get bartenders excited about using abstinence because they kind of see the relation to the spirit. Right. So to our, the spice rum, for example. But then there's like our own botanical spin on it, so it makes it really a little bit more unique and fun to play around with and then the quality is there. And so I think it's been really fun to present and get it in front of mixologists.

00:53
Grace Kennedy
Hello everyone and welcome back to the startup CPG podcast. This is Grace, and today I am talking to Renwe Chang, the CEO and owner of Abstinence Spirits, a line of botanical inspired, non alcoholic spirits. My personal favorite, as you'll hear, is their lemon aperitivo, which actually won a shelfie award in 2024 in the non alcoholic category. Brenu and I talk all about the fast growing NA category and how abstinent spirits is planning to lead the pack when it comes to complex and flavorful spirits in this space. I hope you enjoy this episode and as always, let me know what you think. Hello everyone, this is Grace and I am joined today by Ren Wei, the CEO of Abstinence Spirits. Welcome to the show, Renway.

01:48
Ranwei Chiang
Thank you. Excited to be here?

01:50
Grace Kennedy
Yes. I'm so excited to have you. I am personally a fan of abstinence Spirits. I think my favorite is the, like lemon aperitif with a little sparkle. So good, just over ice on its own. I like had it on a zoom call once that was at like 5 o'clock and I was like, oh, isn't it so refreshing? So refreshing and delicious. But I'd love for you to introduce yourself and Abstinence Spirits to our listeners.

02:16
Ranwei Chiang
Yeah, sure. So my name is Ren Wei Chang. I am the CEO and owner of Abstinence Spirits. We've been around in the US for about two and a half years now, but we are a line of botanical inspired, non alcoholic spirits featuring botanicals from South Africa's Cape Floral Kingdom. So the idea was to make a whole range of products that, you know, mimic alcohol but are more interesting, fun, fragrant, exciting, so that you don't have to be so tied to alcohol and give you other options for what to drink.

02:50
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. And that's such a trend right now. I mean, we're recording this in January, so many people are doing dry January. This will come out later in the year. But definitely we see that trend growing. But I'd love to hear a little bit about why Abstinence Spirits was created and some of the origin story of, you know, how this brand came to be.

03:11
Ranwei Chiang
Yeah, so I'm actually partnered with two guys in South Africa, so a sommelier and a wine producer. And they actually used to make a craft gin, but got really excited about the non alcoholic options and taking that like beautiful craft flavor distillation process and giving it to this non alcoholic consumer so that we can have the same quality and flavor in our products. And so they probably kicked off and started in 2020. I met up with them in, I guess 2022 now. And so it was just like it was the first time I had seen something of such good, like bold flavor and sophistication. And so for me, I was looking to cut back on alcohol, but you know, I was always either water or alcohol. I didn't really like soda or juice or anything in between.

04:04
Ranwei Chiang
And so I was having a hard time finding stuff that I liked. And so once I got together with these guys, were all on the. On the same page. Right. We had the same mission. It's not sugar, it's really just depth and body. And so being able to bring that to a larger audience has been a big passion and I'm excited to keep growing abstinence over the last couple years.

04:28
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, definitely. You're so right in that. So much of Anna and I think this is obviously changing a lot right now, but so much of the non alk options, you know, back in like 2020 were kind of basically just like flavored seltzer or juice. And you know, I feel similarly is when I want something that is kind of an end of the day treat, but not necessarily alcohol. I don't really just want like flavored water or juice. And I do think you guys have done really excellent job in your product line of bringing that actual depth of flavor that makes me like excited to drink it. Even though it's not alcohol, it's still a treat. It still feels, you know, special. And I think you guys have a non alcoholic gin as well, right? Yes.

05:13
Ranwei Chiang
Yeah.

05:14
Grace Kennedy
So one thing I was curious about is how obviously these people were making gin beforehand. So maybe that felt like an easy, okay, let's make a non alk gin. But how did you guys decide on kind of the different offerings you were going to create with Abstinence Spirits? Because I know you guys have kind of a range.

05:31
Ranwei Chiang
Yeah. So we wanted to have a Full range so that you can replace any alcohol or spirit that you're looking to use with an abstinence product. And so we have their Cape Floral as a non alcoholic gin with our own twist on it too. Right. So you've got all the juniper angelica root of a traditional gin and then we've got this like beautiful rose geranium overlay to it. So that's what makes us really unique and stand out in the market. And then we've kind of iterated over time and so we actually at the end of last year just launched our Cape malt which is a whiskey alternative and Cape Spice, which is a rum alternative. And so same thing, it's got our own spin on it. So it's going to be really unique and fun.

06:19
Ranwei Chiang
But that signature like adult depth sophistication that we bring to all of our products. And then of course we have our blood orange aperitif and the lemon aperitif which you love. But the blood orange aperitif is kind of our hero product. Everybody loves it. It's like bitter, bold, really bright and beautiful too. And so that's kind of got this cult following now and that's really where we've made our name.

06:48
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, that's awesome. I don't know if I've tried the blood orange, but I'll have to keep an eye out. Next time I'll have to get you some. Yeah, next time I get to the store. So that reminds me though to think of, to ask a little bit about how you have brought these products to consumers. Obviously you've worked with these, you know, sounds like some of the best in the field in South Africa. But how have you worked to bring these products to the American consumer and sort of get them in front of people?

07:14
Ranwei Chiang
Yeah, I mean it's a very grassroots effort. Right. We're doing in store tasting, pop up events. Anybody who wants to collaborate or you know, do a partnership, just always looking for creative ways to get out in front of people because I think just with our price point it's a new category and I think there's a lot of like people are just dabbling in this non alcoholic space and there's a lot of confusion and not knowing where to move forward. So I just really want to make sure we're getting abstinence spirits in front of as many people as possible to try. And I just love that experience too because so many people are like, oh, I haven't really found a non alcoholic spirit I like. And then they try abstinence and they're like, oh, just kidding. Like this is the one.

08:04
Ranwei Chiang
And so that's what makes me excited and keeps me moving forward.

08:08
Grace Kennedy
Absolutely. I mean I was definitely one of those people that was kind of skeptical of a non alcoholic spirit or aperitif. I was like, oh, it's gonna be like so sweet. Or it's kind of like just be kind of, I don't know, gross. And then I did try it and I loved it. So I've definitely had that consumer experience. How have you guys been approaching some of these in person moments? Because obviously with a thing that's a new category, tasting is believing, as they say. How have you guys been getting abstinence to like a store or different retail partners that you can work with to then do some of these tastings or demos?

08:43
Ranwei Chiang
Yeah, so it's been a lot of relationship building. So I think we're lucky in the non alcoholic space that we have really great industry partners. So like non alcoholic bottle shops, even other brands who want to work together and so just trying to help spread the word about good non alcoholic products. And so they're actually helping us to do a lot of the legwork because they become reference points for restaurants and bars that are also in the area. And so we're just like building momentum that way. And so while sometimes it can feel slow, it's really strong connections. It's really fun to build this community in this space.

09:25
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, you've been at this for I guess a little over two years now. What have you seen within this community and space of the non alk category? How have you seen it grow and change and even, you know, with your own brand but also at large?

09:40
Ranwei Chiang
Yeah, I think we're seeing a lot more products and brands come out, which I think is a great thing because the more awareness, the more we're building the entire category, the more space and consumer awareness that there's going to be. And so I think we're all just taking our little piece of the awareness and education campaign and that's how we see the category. And so that has been really fun for me to be a part of. I actually came from cosmetics, so it was a little bit different before. So this is really nice and warm and inviting.

10:14
Grace Kennedy
I was thinking about, you know, you're speaking a little bit about the sort of like fellow non elk brands and that community and how have you found sort of like retailers and consumers response and changes over the last two years or so.

10:27
Ranwei Chiang
Yeah. And I think that on the consumer side it's been really fun to see because when I first started two years ago I was like, oh, there's this building momentum around this category. You know, more people doing dry January, more people have tried non alcoholic products and now two years later I'm like, oh my God, there's so much more momentum around this now. And it's great to see that it's had this lift continuously for the last two years that I've been involved and I, I'm hoping and I'm excited to see it to continue to grow.

11:00
Ranwei Chiang
And I think like were just talking about beforehand with the news about the new cancer warnings that they want to put on alcoholic products and the surgeon general news and findings that just continues to give space for people to look for non alcoholic social adult beverages so that they can be a little bit less tied to alcohol.

11:25
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. And I've personally as a consumer loved seeing in my local bottle shop that they have some non alcoholic options and that they don't just have alcoholic. And I'm curious how you're working with retail partners. Maybe like, you know, there are some of these shops that are all non al bottle shops, but then two, they're alcoholic bottle shops. And what has been your approach in terms of like where you see abstinence, you know, doing best or is it like also at the grocery store? What's sort of the retail strategy?

11:54
Ranwei Chiang
Yeah, so our retail strategy has actually been to be online as much as possible because I think we're in this phase where consumers don't really know where to look for non alcoholic products yet. And I think that a lot of retailers still haven't made like a big stance on what they're carrying in terms of non alcoholic products. So I think the athletic beer is paving the way. Beer is a lot more well known in terms of non alcoholic options and I think wine and spirits will follow. But I don't think there's a, in the consumer's mind this sense of oh, if I want a non alcoholic spirit or if I want a wide variety, this is the retailer I go to. I think that's still left to be claimed.

12:43
Grace Kennedy
Right.

12:43
Ranwei Chiang
And so ours is like e commerce first and then we are careful in choosing partners where there's a consumer base that's asking for it. So that's one of the questions we ask our retailers and then have a staff that's willing and interested in developing the category because it is something that takes a little bit more work, but we're finding it's incremental. Right. So it's additive to alcohol sales, other beverage sales. So it's like truly a new category that people are shopping and trying. And so I think people who are ready to take the risk and dive in is where we've seen the most success.

13:27
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, definitely. And it's true that my local bottle shop that I was just saying the non alcoholic options are kind of like in the corner on the bottom of the shelf. So you kind of have to, you have to know where to look if you're going to find it. But I'm also lucky in that there is a great. I'm blanking on the name, but there's a great non alcoholic bottle shop not far from me in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania. So if anyone's in my area, you should go.

13:47
Ranwei Chiang
Wallace Dry Goods.

13:49
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. Yeah. Something I was wanting to ask was about, you know, focusing on this E commerce presence. How have you guys been marketing abstinence spirits via, you know, social media or, you know, I don't know if you're doing any paid ads or working with any influencers, but how have you kind of been using marketing for. To sort of help the E commerce?

14:09
Ranwei Chiang
Yeah, I will, I'll be very honest in that we're doing a lot organically. We do a little bit of social ads and stuff like that, but a lot of the press and what we've seen is kind of just organic pickup by people who love our product. And so similarly to how we're treating our retailers and finding people who love us and come to us, we're seeing the same thing with influencers and some of the UGC that we're getting. So we've got good product and a passionate following. And so I think our next steps is to figure out how to boost that and amplify that.

14:51
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. So what you're finding is consumers who maybe already have an online presence, you know, posting about abstinence because they just found it and loved it. I do definitely see a lot of different influencers posting about a variety of like non alcoholic beverages, which probably just speaks to the larger trend. But it seems like something that is useful to have some of that ugc. And how do you guys approach your social media channels in general, like your posting or your usage of it?

15:18
Ranwei Chiang
Yeah. So we do a lot of education on there like recipe sharing and how to use our product. Right. So it's the same thing on how do we teach people what we are and the, how easy it is to take it home and use it. And so we do a lot of like, we have a perfect serve on Every one of our bottles. So it's like it's either club soda, ginger beer, tonic or whatever. It pairs the best. And what's the perfect garnish, be it like a slice of grapefruit or rosemary sprig on each of our bottles. So you know that no matter what, if you take it home, you can at least have that perfect serve. And then as you get creative and more confident in using our spirits for mixology, then you know you can go wild with it.

16:07
Ranwei Chiang
But at least you have a baseline and it's very similar to using alcohol and spirits.

16:14
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. And you mentioning mixology makes me think of just bartenders in general. And I was curious if you guys have a strategy or an approach to on premise accounts. I've seen a lot of bars, you know, offering more non alcoholic options, but sometimes I feel like that stops at the non alk beer. So I'm curious what your approach has been to on premise accounts.

16:33
Ranwei Chiang
Oh yeah. So on premise it's been so much fun because I think just like the consumer, bartenders are looking for fun, innovative products to use for their cocktails. And so with ours, because we have the whole range of products, it's really nice to get bartenders excited about using abstinence because they kind of see the relation to the spirit. Right. So to our, the spice rum, for example. But then there's like our own botanical spin on it, so it makes it really a little bit more unique and fun to play around with and then the quality is there. And so I think it's been fun to present and get it in front of mixologists.

17:17
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. And has that been mostly just a process of kind of showing up to the bar or how have you made these contacts and relationships?

17:24
Ranwei Chiang
Yeah, showing up to bar, being at trade shows and conferences. Yeah. And so just getting in front of the right people. Getting, getting them to try abstinence. Yeah. So we've got, we're building a sales team to just go, you know, door to door, just like in the alcohol industry.

17:43
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, definitely. And what sort of trade shows have you gone to have? Have they been like alcohol trade shows or are they CPG trade shows or what have you found to be most useful for this growing category?

17:54
Ranwei Chiang
Yeah, it's actually a mix of both. So I'd say we've been to fancy food show Expo west, but also Bar Convent. We're thinking about the National Restaurant Show. So it's actually a healthy mix of both because we've got to think about our on premise because that's Also another way for people to try abstinence and get the word out. So we've got to build that side of the business as well as like traditional retailers, cpg. So it's a fun balance of both sides.

18:28
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. And thinking about trade shows and some of the other growing opportunities, you're talking about building a sales team. What I'm thinking of is that all of those things require a lot of money. And one thing I'm thinking about is as you're growing, how are you managing some of the like, costs of doing these things while also managing, you know, being a small business and how that funding path has worked for you guys?

18:53
Ranwei Chiang
It's been an interesting journey to be an entrepreneur because I feel like two years ago it's like everybody wants money. I don't know how you do anything, but. Whereas now kind of a few years in, I'm like, okay, I'm very clear on what we will and won't spend money on. And so we're very kind of a lot more savvy and thoughtful about where we spend our money and how it goes and what we expect in return. And so I think we are focused on, yeah, brand building and as many tastings and in person events as possible, but also like growing sales, like that's gotta be our number one endgame.

19:32
Ranwei Chiang
And so with that balance, we're able to, you know, spread our dollar a lot further than I think a larger business can do because we just don't have as much overhead and we're very like nimble and small team. So with that we've been able to get pretty far. But we actually do have a crowdfunding campaign that's live as of like last week. And so we are actually on, we funder right now and trying to build a little bit of momentum and excitement about around abstinence and hopefully get some investors through that.

20:06
Grace Kennedy
Amazing. And when does that campaign end?

20:09
Ranwei Chiang
That actually ends in mid March. Okay, perfect.

20:14
Grace Kennedy
Well, this episode will come out before then, so.

20:17
Ranwei Chiang
Okay. Yeah, let's make you happen.

20:19
Grace Kennedy
That's awesome. So what made you decide? I know there's a lot of different avenues to go around with funding. How did you guys decide on crowdfunding and we funder as the path for abstinence.

20:29
Ranwei Chiang
Yeah, I think for us it was a matter of one our size and where we are in our business. I don't think we're ready for big institutional investors. And I love that we've been built so organically and grassroots by people who really are excited about us who, you know, come back and do repeat orders of like six bottles every three months. You know, like just that core consumer that we have. And I wanted to one, give them an opportunity to be part of our story and our journey, but also use it as a tool to say, hey, this is what we are. We're small, but we're. We got something here. And find other people who are going to be passionate and supportive of what we're doing.

21:17
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, that's awesome. Well, everybody listening should check out Abstinence Spirits. We funder. But another thing I wanted to return to that you mentioned was you said you sort of identified things that we will and won't spend money on. And it sounds like some things you will is this. Are the sales team getting out there, getting in front of people. I was curious though, what are some of the things you've discovered? Like, actually, no, I'm not going to spend money on that. Or no, that's not worth my money or my capital.

21:43
Ranwei Chiang
Yeah, I think there's a lot of like, bells and whistles that people want, you know, for your website or, you know, these capabilities, this dashboards, this information, all of that kind of stuff. Because I came from a corporate world where I had a lot of that and, you know, it would be convenient to, you know, get all this reporting and have everything tied up nicely in a bow. But what we're realizing is even in terms of data and information and capabilities, like keeping that lean and kind of just to what we need has. Has honestly just freed us up to grow also. In addition to saving us some money.

22:25
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, definitely. Anywhere you can save money is always welcome. So how big is your team now?

22:33
Ranwei Chiang
We've got four people.

22:35
Grace Kennedy
Awesome. And how did you decide, you know, you wanted to bring more people on or, you know, and what type of roles you felt like, okay, we need, you know, X, Y, Z role in order to keep growing.

22:47
Ranwei Chiang
Yeah. So for us it's everything is a decision of do we outsource or do we bring it in house. And so, yeah, we do have some like, outsourced consulting help that we've brought on just in terms of like strength, detail of work, what's required, that was the best way to go. But in terms of our own team, it was like we actually have our own warehouse. So bringing somebody into staff and run our warehouse was a key one that we wanted to own and that's been huge in terms of the customer experience, managing any issues that come up and just having that in our Own house has been key. And so that was an easy early one. And then the second one is sales too, because you just like build a passion from the inside.

23:36
Ranwei Chiang
And so I think these are just a couple of key ones where we just want to excel at what we do and bringing that in house and getting people who are passionate, excited about the brand, who are going to give their all is been really key. Yeah, I love that.

23:52
Grace Kennedy
And it speaks kind of to your product in that you're focusing on where your product is, you know, made and stored and also how you're getting it to people. I am curious a little bit about, you know, the decision around having your own warehouse and how that process went because that's obviously a big responsibility and sort of investment in the brand.

24:11
Ranwei Chiang
Oh yeah, well, we started, were using a 3PL, so a third party warehouse, but it just felt a little bit stifling where, you know, there wasn't a lot of flexibility. Everything had to be laid out in steps and then there was a charge for it. And so as were growing and wanted to get a little bit more nimble and, you know, creative in what were doing, but also we're small and you know, where everything was due yesterday and you know, want to change things on the fly. And so it just gave us the flexibility to do a lot more. And so we kind of just. We were at a crossroads. I think we decided, I think we had to leave a warehouse at the end of October last year or in 2023 and the 1st of October.

25:02
Ranwei Chiang
We were like, okay, let's just do it ourselves. And so we kind of pivoted. We had two, three weeks to make it all happen. And I think it was the. One of the best business decisions we made.

25:13
Grace Kennedy
Wow, that must have been a bit of a mad dash though.

25:17
Ranwei Chiang
A little bit. A little bit.

25:19
Grace Kennedy
Very much a founder or startup kind of life there.

25:24
Ranwei Chiang
Oh yeah.

25:25
Grace Kennedy
But something I also always like to ask founders is of that startup founder life, what has been one of the biggest challenges since deciding to go all in on abstinence?

25:36
Ranwei Chiang
I would say, as I think of challenges, I would say one is probably financial, right. I think the journey for growth and to build a foundation and a strong brand takes a lot of time and money. So I think just to get where we are today has been a lot of like shuffling and rejiggering of what our goals are and you know, a lot of determination and grit. And so just doing that consistently over and over again for the journey is hard. And so for Us, it's a matter of like checking in on each other, making sure we're feeling balanced, we're still good, and we're in it for the long haul, both mentally, financially. I think that's been most important for us.

26:26
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. And how do you kind of ensure that you know, I know it's so like self care feels like such a, I don't know, overused word, but how do you kind of ensure that you're still feeling good with all of the demands that come with running a small company, like abstinence.

26:43
Ranwei Chiang
Yeah. So it's funny, I made a couple decisions when I first started this to put myself and my health first. So I have like a fitness routine that I do every week. And so I think I always make time for that. And I think I've been in jobs where I didn't do that. And so that I think has been a huge shift for me and my business partner. We're always like, oh, you're going to yoga. Okay, I'll see you in two hours. You know, and so it's nice to be in a space where we can create that for each other. And I think that goes a long way into, you know, respecting boundaries for everything else. Yeah, for each other.

27:24
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, I love that. And so important to commit to the time and yeah, you could get burnt out in any job. It doesn't have to just be a startup if you don't make time for yourself and don't exercise or don't do whatever it is that helps you feel good. So one of my last questions is just what advice would you give to yourself if you were on day one of this business and starting it all over again? What's something you wish someone had told you who was maybe a little bit further along in the process?

27:51
Ranwei Chiang
Let's see. I think I would say make sure you're having fun because, I mean, it's hard work. It's a lot. Things aren't going to go the way you want it to go every day, but if you take a step back and you're enjoying it, you're still on the right path. I think I've had reassessments where like, I'm, you know, you're banging your head and you're like, oh, wait, let me just like pivot or try this instead. And you're like, oh, yeah, okay, that actually is the right path. And so now we're seeing progress or we have got momentum. And so I think doing those check ins Even however small, to make sure you're on the right path is worth the effort.

28:33
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, I love that. Having fun is sometimes hard to do, but important to prioritize. So my last question.

28:40
Ranwei Chiang
It's there.

28:40
Grace Kennedy
Oh yeah. It's out there.

28:42
Ranwei Chiang
It's there.

28:43
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. My last question is just how can the startup CPG community and our listeners support abstinence spirits?

28:50
Ranwei Chiang
I love that because I've loved being part of the startup CPG community and they've done so much for me in terms of, you know, making connections and reaching out and being open to conversation. And so I think do more of that. Tell people about abstinence, go give it a try. And I think don't be afraid to bring a non alcoholic option to a party because the number of conversations I've had with people, their stories, how people open up about journeys with non not drinking or anything has been really amazing. And so I think create space for people. Non alcoholic drinks in general, but abstinence for sure.

29:36
Grace Kennedy
And where can people learn more about abstinence if they want to try it or if they want to just learn about the products?

29:42
Ranwei Chiang
Yeah, our website, drinkabstinence. Com.

29:46
Grace Kennedy
Awesome. Cool. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show, Runway. I'm super excited to see where abstinence goes in the future. And I'm probably going to have to go to my non alk bottle shop soon and pick up another bottle cause I'm done with my lemon spritz. So there we go. I gotta get some more.

30:02
Ranwei Chiang
Yeah, yeah. Say hi to them for me at Wallace Dry. Good.

30:06
Grace Kennedy
I will, I will. Well, thanks so much, Runway. Have a great day.

30:10
Ranwei Chiang
Thanks, you too.

30:14
Grace Kennedy
All right, everyone, thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, it would help us out so much if you left a 5 star review on ratethispodcast.com startupcpg I am Grace Kennedy, the host of the Founder feature series. So feel free to add me on LinkedIn or reach out to me on Slack. I'm always on the hunt for new and exciting brands to feature. And if you're a potential sponsor who would like to appear on the podcast, Please email partnerships startupcpg.com and finally, as a reminder for anyone listening, if you haven't already, we would love for you to join our community on Slack. You can sign up via our website startupcpg.com.