The Startup CPG Podcast

Sean Knecht
Our co-packer is our lead investor, which is a very underrated aspect to a small business. Sell yourself to the co packer about, hey, if you invest in me, this is a win that could really help cash flow and just it can help accelerate the growth of your business because you're not necessarily super worried about the paying your supplier within day or whatever. They'll be a little bit more lenient because they will help you grow.

00:35
Caitlin Bricker
Hey everybody, this is Caitlin Bricker, managing editor at startup cpg. We are back with another founder feature. Today I'm sitting down with Sean Knecht, founder of TANTOSs, the first and only puffed pasta chip. Sean's bringing a brand new snack category to market alongside his business partner and celebrity chef Joe Sasto. Their original story started with a DM about flour to egg ratios and well, the rest is history. We're diving into Sean's journey being on Shark Tank not once but twice. The reality of the Shark Tank effect, we're talking orders, social and more. And his strategy for convincing Whole Foods that the snack aisle is overloaded with tortilla chips and needs something new. No offense, Tortilla Chip founders. This one's full of tactical insights you won't want to miss. As always, enjoy. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Startup CPG podcast.

01:28
Caitlin Bricker
This is Caitlin and today I'm here with Sean Knecht, founder of TANTOS. Sean, welcome to the show.

01:33
Sean Knecht
Thank you for having me.

01:34
Caitlin Bricker
It's great to have you here. I hear that you are fresh off of Expo west and I'd love to hear about your experience there and all things TANTOS. But before we dive into that, can you just tell our listeners what TANTOS is?

01:48
Sean Knecht
Yeah. TANTOS is the first and only puffed pasta chip.

01:54
Caitlin Bricker
Very short and sweet. Love it. Sounds like it's a very uncomplicated product in a world full of complicated CPG products.

02:02
Sean Knecht
It's very uncomplicated, but actually a lot of people don't truly grasp what it actually is. A lot of people think, or most people think, it's a tortilla chip or a corn chip that is obviously puff, but it's in the flavor of pasta. Our pellet, our base ingredient is wheat and water, the true definition of pasta. So we are a true pasta chip.

02:26
Caitlin Bricker
So you're not cosplaying as a pasta chip. You are a pasta chip.

02:30
Sean Knecht
Correct. There are some cosplaying pasta chips out there, but we are the first and only. So very excited for that and believe we have first to market kind of excitability to our product, and a lot of people are grasping to that, and we have a lot of momentum for us right now.

02:47
Caitlin Bricker
Really exciting. It is pretty cool and refreshing. I say that word a lot on this podcast, but, I mean, there is a reason why I have different founders on here, because you are bringing refreshment to the world of cpg. But it is really cool to see a new idea come out. It's not just a Me Too product, which is also very exciting for consumers. And I would assume as a founder,.

03:08
Sean Knecht
Too, I have a business partner, Chef Joe Sasto, and this was actually his brainchild. And I'm just kind of the brains and operations of the actual product. Can't take credit for inventing the product. And I told him from the very beginning, I wouldn't be doing this if weren't the first and only because you go to these shows, you go to the supermarket, and there's a lot of the same thing. And unless you have a gazillion dollars, it's so hard to stand out. But if you're the first only of something, you can really hone in on that language and it perks people's ears up and gets their attention and they're more willing to give you a shot, both from a retailer standpoint and also an individual consumer standpoint.

03:50
Sean Knecht
So I would only be doing this if we had that kind of leg up, and we do. So I went all in.

03:56
Caitlin Bricker
I do think you just touched on it. The language of being the first and only. It's very intriguing because a lot of brands do like to claim that they're the first doing something. And even if that is the case, I like to say that I think it's more powerful that a consumer is having a first experience with your brand, because there could be other pasta chips out there. But even if there are, if somebody's trying TANTOS for the first time and that's their first experience, that's what they're going to remember you by.

04:25
Sean Knecht
And I always say, because we are pasta, it's a universal food group, basically from six months old to the day you die. Everyone loves pasta, unless you're obviously allergies excluded. But it's such a low barrier to entry for someone to be willing to try it because it is a familiar food, pasta. But what brings people back is our flavor, texture and crunch. So that's what we really kind of hone in on when we're describing it to our customers and to retailers. And. And when they actually do try, they're like, oh, this actually does taste like pasta. Oh, this is crunchy and light and airy and really tastes good. I want to go back for more. And it doesn't feel as heavy as a full bowl of pasta because it is puffed and so light and airy.

05:10
Sean Knecht
So we think that there is room in the snack aisle for a new category of pasta based snacks and we're at the forefront of it.

05:20
Caitlin Bricker
I would agree with that. You touched on this, that you have a business partner. You're a two man show at TANTOS. Can you tell us a little bit about your background, Joe's background, and how you met?

05:30
Sean Knecht
Yeah, so fun story on how we met. So my background is I'm an entrepreneur by trade. I've started a few businesses before TANTOS. And Chef Joe Sasso, he's a chef, Michelin rated. He's been in kitchens his whole life. And kind of around the pandemic time, he got out of the kitchen and started being more of an influencer content creator, doing pop up dinners and really traveling full time cooking. Joe and I met because I was watching his season of Top Chef and that was the beginning of my personal homemade pasta journey. And I was mixing eggs and flour and water and all this, the ingredients to make homemade pasta. And I wasn't very good at it. It didn't taste good. And I was watching his season and he was known as the pasta guy.

06:16
Sean Knecht
So I just decided to DM him on Instagram and I asked him a super nerdy question because I can't just ask him a normal question because people flood his Instagram. So I asked him what his flour to egg ratio was and that kind of grabbed his attention. He was like, this is the a very odd question to ask. So he answered and we started having this back and forth conversation via Instagram and he was kind of teaching me how to make pasta. And he was in LA at the time, at a restaurant actually down the street from me. We had this DMing relationship and then fast forward a few months, my wife decided to DM him my birthday was coming up and asked him if he does private lessons. He did.

06:57
Sean Knecht
And so my wife booked me one for my birthday and I went to his. I didn't realize it by the time, but I went to his apartment and we made tortellini together as a pasta lesson. And we started kind of talking and getting to know each other and we immediately hit it off and basically became best friends. And long story short, we started having a more friendship. Fast forward a few months. He had a pop up dinner at his Apartment and two people dropped out. Last minute. He texted me, hey, do your wife want to come to this? My pop up dinner? I have two extra seats. Won't charge you. This is pre kids. So we dropped everything and just went. And the first dish was what he called pasta nachos.

07:41
Sean Knecht
It was the original concept of tons of but like with caviar and cheese and microgreens and just like a one bite kind of pasta nacho. And I tried it. I was obsessed with it. I was like, whoa, what was that? Like, this was really incredible. So after the dinner, I couldn't stop thinking about it. He asked me to stay back and hang out for a little bit. So we did. And I asked him, I was like, what was that dish? And he basically kind of gave me the rundown of, oh, it's combination of my true favorite fruit groups, pasta and nachos. Combine them. It was a happy accident in the kitchen. I was like, what's your. Like what's your goal with this? And he's like, I mean, I'm a chef, I. I want to bring this to market.

08:19
Sean Knecht
But I had no background and in business, like, it's just kind of here. He's like, one day I would like to bring it to market. And I was like, that's what I do. Let's tag team this. Let's start a business. So I had to bug him a few more times over the course of the next few months because, you know, were still coming off this friendship, you know, a budding friendship. And he's like, this guy, I don't know. But I kept on persisting and lo and behold, we decided to jump all in. Once Covid hit. Covid hit, his restaurant closed. He was decided to make the full time switch. And he's like, all right, I have time. Like, let's do it. So that's kind of how the journey began.

08:55
Caitlin Bricker
Wow. You know, sometimes sliding into the DMs can really work, and sometimes it can be a disaster. And this was a bromance, it sounds.

09:02
Sean Knecht
Like, listen, I have a track record with sliding into DMs. I got. I met my wife on Tinder and I met Joe, my business partner on Insta. So I'm a modern love story.

09:13
Caitlin Bricker
I think that says a lot about just shooting your shot because what's the worst that can happen? They leave you on read or they say no or just never see the message at all. I mean, I can relate to your story a lot because I have a very good friend named Claire who has a pretty Massive following on Instagram. She also has cookbooks. She. I don't know if she'd call herself a chef, but she's pretty crafty in the kitchen. And this was a decade ago. She just reminded me this a few days ago. A decade ago, I slid into her DMs because I had been cooking her recipes so often and posting them on Instagram and tagging her. And then I was like, hey, if you're ever in the Boston area and you want to get lunch, just let me know.

09:52
Caitlin Bricker
She ended up living in Cambridge, Massachusetts for a little bit because her partner was studying at Harvard. We've been friends ever since and I helped her launch two of her cookbooks. So you and I, we are here to tell you, shoot that shot.

10:05
Sean Knecht
Shoot your shot. I have two mottos now. One is now shoot your shot. And two is professional persistence.

10:11
Caitlin Bricker
Persistence is key, especially in cpg. I have to ask, before we go any deeper, what does TANTOS mean?

10:18
Sean Knecht
Glad you asked. So Joe's pop up series where I first kind of had the first original version was called Tanto Si, which loosely is Italian, loosely based on the term. So much. Yes. And in Joe's kind of philosophy in cooking is when you sit down at a meal, you see all the food and you take that first bite and all you want to do is say so much. Yes. Like, let's dig in. So we kind of played around with that. And I can't take credit for this. This is all my wife. She's my creative side. She combined them Tonto seeds TANTOS because it matches Fritos, Doritos, Cheetos, and now TANTOS. Kind of the os, a made up word. We could get the Instagram and the URLs and all that. And it's a made up word. And. And it's in the os.

11:05
Sean Knecht
Just like Fritos, Doritos and Cheetos.

11:08
Caitlin Bricker
Can you tell me about your first appearance on Shark Tank and then your second appearance with TANTOS?

11:14
Sean Knecht
Yeah, so my first appearance on Shark Tank. Company called Pride Bites Pet Products. We are a custom pet product manufacturer. It was about nine years ago, believe it or not. And that business was my first business out of college. My first kind of diving into the entrepreneurship world. I knew nothing compared to the second time, both about business and how TV shows are made and all that. Fantastic experience. I was very nervous and we actually got a deal with two sharks. Robert and Lori is very exciting. And that business is still around. The business model has shifted, but it's still around thriving. And that Kind of led me to my second time being on Shark Tank. Once TANTOS kind of started, I reached out to the producers and I said, hey, just FYI, I am doing this new project.

12:05
Sean Knecht
Would love an opportunity to get back on. Let me know what you think. They loved it. You're still making tv, so you still have to kind of have that charm and that totally for tv. But so they remembered me and obviously having Joe having a TV background, they're like, okay, he's TV ready. I've been on it. It could be a safer bet for them to have us back on. So we applied once for TANTOS. They love the video we made for them, the video application. They looked at our numbers and they were like, okay, well you're a little too early. Apply next season. And were really bummed, but it made sense. So fast forward one year, I we reapplied and they loved it and they wanted to kind of go through the process. So it took another like six months or so.

12:50
Sean Knecht
But we got the call, we filmed and then you don't know the air date until three weeks prior to your episode airing. And even that you don't get guaranteed to get on because they might preempt you, they might say, hey, you're airing February 1st, but something in the news might happen where ABC needs to cut and you might not air. So nothing's guaranteed. But they gave us the heads up. Three weeks. We were super excited and kind of knew from my previous experience what the Shark Tank effect is. So I had three weeks to like really plan inventory and website and social and everything. All my ducks in a row. And I went ham on getting everything ready and it went really smooth. Very pleased with my team. And we got about 3,000 orders in the first three days of airing.

13:38
Caitlin Bricker
Wow.

13:39
Sean Knecht
It was a mad dash. And we fulfilled 99.5% of the orders on time. It was fantastic. So kudos to my team. I'm not necessarily a one man band. I run it, but I have a whole team that I outsource that helps me with everything. And we all did an amazing job and it was sure thing is a life changing experience.

13:57
Caitlin Bricker
There's so much to unpack there and I think it says a lot. A your persistence piece that you mentioned earlier is coming back in because you got an know the first time and you're like, you know what, we'll go back, we'll do it and you got it. So congrats on that. And then that planning aspect, I feel like people might not Know, especially if they are new, they're looking to gain more followers and traction and putting their brand out there. And then you go live on national TV and how do you even. You had a leg up obviously, as you mentioned, because you've done this before.

14:29
Caitlin Bricker
But the fact that people might be going on the show, experiencing this and not having the knowledge about that Shark Tank effect, I think what you just mentioned says a lot about how you can prepare as a brand.

14:40
Sean Knecht
Yeah. And I've actually, because now I was on it once and now twice, but I've been coaching Shark Tank companies who are about to get on how to prepare.

14:50
Caitlin Bricker
Aha. Good to know.

14:52
Sean Knecht
We're all in a private Facebook group together and a word of mouth happens and I through my network, a lot of people reach out to me saying, hey, I have a friend who's getting on Shark Tank and are you on? Can you help them? So I've been doing a lot of that coaching on the side and it's just really fulfilling to helping brands succeed when they get on Shark Tank. You know, it is a different show than it was the first time I went nine years ago. But the Shark Tank effect is still real for majority of the brands that.

15:16
Caitlin Bricker
Get on and not to hit a possible sore spot. But with TANTOS, you did not get a deal from the Sharks and you still saw 3,000 orders within three days. That is crazy to me.

15:28
Sean Knecht
Yeah, I mean, I hate saying this because, you know, I went on the show to actually get a deal. I'll say this is nine years later, but with Pied Bytes were kind of like, you know, the exposure would be amazing. With TANTOS, I actually told Joe, I was like, I want a deal. Like I'm going here. I'm valuation and ass. Everything is really level headed because I'm coming in here for the deal. Obviously really bummed that we didn't get the deal, but best case scenario for a small brand like us actually happened. We filmed, we aired, they liked the products on the show, they were trying it, they raved about it and we did not get a deal and we still got all the exposure. So yes, I went on to get a deal after the fact.

16:10
Sean Knecht
Joe and I went to dinner and were super bummed for the rest of the night. But then as were kind of talking about it's like, okay, no matter what happens, like as long as we air, we'll be okay. And we did. And sky's the limit right now.

16:21
Caitlin Bricker
So you got the orders, which is great. What did that do for your social presence. Did you notice a difference in social too?

16:29
Sean Knecht
To be honest, there was very little bump in social. Interesting again Shark Tank 9 years ago when it was prime time Friday night it was one of the hottest shows on TV. Now it's Wednesday nights at 10pm it's totally and society and the TV world was streaming. Everything has completely changed. But yeah, if you're going on there to try to get a boost in social, don't waste your time because you're not going to see that bomb. And we have a celebrity chef that was on a he barely saw a bump. Our business brand barely saw a bump. We're talking like maybe 100 people. But as a small brand I would rather the 3000 orders than the a hundred followers because now again this goes back to the prep. My digital marketing agency saw that spike.

17:15
Sean Knecht
Not only people googling, people searching in not only Google, Amazon but going to our website as well. Then we set up a retargeting campaign and if you touched our site or our Amazon were following you around the Internet for the next two weeks and that led us have the sales momentum keep going. And ultimately what the Shark Tank did and the Shark Tank effect was raised our daily sales floor by 3x for our business both with shop, our e commerce and Amazon combined. So with no real I say were doing $100 a day combined online after Shark Tank our average now is at least $300 a day. Well to me that's what the Shark Tank affected. It's raising your floor from awareness play and just letting the backend algorithms of, you know, meta and Google and all that.

18:05
Sean Knecht
When you're doing targeted campaigns it just helps you define who your target audience is that much better and it helps improve everything in the backend.

18:14
Caitlin Bricker
That's really good advice, really great insight. It's definitely a unique perspective that you're able to offer to brands who are listening right now.

18:22
Sean Knecht
And I will say one thing, there is a downside to Shark Tank.

18:25
Caitlin Bricker
Let's hear it.

18:25
Sean Knecht
And it takes there is a big hit on cash flow. So yeah, the orders do come in. You have to pay for the inventory upfront. You're doing a lot of marketing, you don't have to but it would be foolish not to capture that audience with the backend spend on marketing. So it did take a little bit of a hit on cash flow temporarily. So managing that obviously will it does catch up. But if you're cash strapped, you might want to wait a little bit for the Shark Tank because it will drain you A little bit for a short term.

18:56
Caitlin Bricker
Also very good advice.

18:58
Sean Knecht
Yeah. A lot of people don't think about that aspect of getting on Shark Tank.

19:01
Caitlin Bricker
I wouldn't have thought about that.

19:03
Sean Knecht
And also, and there's certain sites like Amazon, Shopify is different because we got a bunch of orders on our Shopify and you get that money right away. But Amazon held our money for over a month because they saw such a big spike. They're like, oh, this is kind of sketchy. You're still young, brand not doing a crazy amount. All of a sudden you spiked. We're worried that you're going to get a bunch of returns, you might be scamming people, whatever. So they held that money for over a month.

19:29
Caitlin Bricker
Whoa.

19:30
Sean Knecht
Yeah. Which I didn't know that I never. With my previous business. I didn't. We didn't do Amazon. That was all new to me and that was hurting my cash flow. I couldn't pay vendors. I was like, hey, I'm just waiting on Amazon to pay me so I can pay you. It was a juggling act for sure. That was a little bit stressful as well.

19:47
Caitlin Bricker
Yeah. That's never a fun position to be in to not be able to pay your vendors, especially if you have a good relationship. But just the principle of it too.

19:55
Sean Knecht
Right.

19:55
Caitlin Bricker
But hopefully you had very understanding vendors that you were working with.

19:59
Sean Knecht
They did. Luckily, part of the TANTOS Secret sauce is our co packer is our lead investor, which is a very underrated aspect to a small business. Sell yourself to the co packer about, hey, if you invest in me, this is a win that could really help cash flow and just overall the growth, it can help accelerate the growth of your business because you're not necessarily super worried about the paying your supplier within day or whatever because they can. They'll be a little bit more lenient because they will help you grow and.

20:32
Caitlin Bricker
They're also seeing the inner workings of your company too. That's some more great insight. I have to ask, since were touching on social, what is it like being a co founder with a celebrity chef slash influencer, if you may.

20:46
Sean Knecht
It's very fun. It's definitely getting me out of my shell from a social media standpoint because I'm not personally, I'm not a big poster on social. And as we're getting more into the business and people are seeing kind of me a little bit more because of Joe. Every time I'm with him, he's like, we gotta film content together. He is pushing me to get out of my shell on Social and post more and be in front of the camera instead of just 100% behind the screen. So that's been a lot of fun and we did a lot of really fun content both at Winter Fancy Fair two months ago and at Expo last week. That is, we're going to slowly trickle down. So if you follow TANTOS, you'll start seeing me a little bit more.

21:28
Sean Knecht
There's some really fun content that we have filmed and it's very fun and exciting and in the raw content and bloopers it is just us laughing hysterically before, during and after when we take videos.

21:41
Caitlin Bricker
I love it. You just mentioned it. Winter Fancy Fair, what was your experience like being in the startup CPG section?

21:48
Sean Knecht
It was good. It's a totally different show than Expo. We actually got a lot of good exposure. Not as much as Expo, full disclosure, full transparent. But one thing that did get out of it was we met the boss of the snacks buyer at Whole Foods and we had a long conversation, came to our booze, liked it, we had a long conversation and he was like, I'm not the buyer. He she's under me but she reports to me. And I was like will you mind like can I get your info and can I follow up? And he did and I followed up with him. We've been having it. We had a few back and forth conversation and that led us to Expo where the buyer came by and said hey, my boss told me to come by, blah.

22:31
Sean Knecht
So being that Fancy is the reason why we got a 10 minute face to face conversation with the Whole Foods buyer. So that conversation alone made Fancy Fair worth it and then that we compounded that with Expo and now we have a fingers crossed on Whole Foods but very excited about that opportunity.

22:50
Caitlin Bricker
Whole Foods, if you're listening, slide into Sean's DMs.

22:53
Sean Knecht
Come on now. Bring posse to the people.

22:56
Caitlin Bricker
Anything you want to say to any other retailers that might be listening about what sets TANTOS apart or why you think the snack aisle needs to be shaken up?

23:06
Sean Knecht
Yeah, and I'll give you the inner workings of my sales strategy to Whole Foods. When I talked to the boss at Winter Fancy Fair, he asked me one particular question that I actually had a hard time answering on the spot. It was who do you replace? And I fumbled my way to my answer, but I then after the show I kept on thinking about it and I went to Whole Foods the next day and I studied the entire. I walked up and down the snack aisle and what I did was I wrote down every single brand that was on the aisle and categorized it. And this is obviously specific to salty snacks, but I categorized it by tortilla chips, corn chips and puffs. And then kind of alt, right? I wrote everything on my phone and I counted.

23:49
Sean Knecht
It was like he had 12 to 14 tortilla chips. Most of them were just sea salt plain. He had like 15 corn chips. He had like eight puffs and like a few other alts. And I'm like, why do you need 12 different sea salt tortilla chips? They're all the same. You don't. You're creating choice paralysis among your shoppers and you're leaving out white space for potential new innovative products. Like TANTOS is a different base. Like why do you have so many tortilla and corn? Those are stale items. Everyone has seen and tasted that for the last decades, right. There has been such lack innovation in the salty snack category minus like flavor development. But it's still the same base. Fried puff or baked tortilla or corn. So we really strategize our pitch around.

24:40
Sean Knecht
There is room because you're overloading your tortilla and corn chip category with the same thing over and over again. And he resonated on that. And he, I think appreciated me doing the research and pointing out specific numbers of actual brands on his shelves. So that really helped lead the conversation. And the whole food stack buyer came up to us and even mentioned how she really liked the differentiating fact of our pellet that is not corn and potato, it's actually pasta. And that was really what drew her to us.

25:11
Caitlin Bricker
And you raise a very good point. Because it was at Winter Fancy Fair that Daniel hosted a panel with foragers and buyers from various retailers. And one of the points that was brought up was that they don't necessarily want you to be replacing a product on the shelf because that's a benefit to them if you are in addition to their basket size. So they could be going and buying the tortilla chip, but they also are buying TANTOS too. So that's a bigger basket size which is favorable for them and it's favorable for you because you're getting discovered. And that's more for you as well, correct? Well, Mic drop, where can people find TANTOS online? What's your website? What's your handle?

25:52
Sean Knecht
TANTOS. You can find TANTOS @eattantos.com and on Amazon. Amazon Prime 2 day shipping. Can't beat that with the stick. And you can find us on socials. Eat TANTOS.

26:05
Caitlin Bricker
Perfect. Sean, this has been really great I think founders are going to learn a lot from you about your experience, not only being two times on Shark Tank, but everything that you've learned as you've been building TANTOS with Joe. So thank you for sharing all your insight and your experience with us.

26:20
Sean Knecht
Thank you for having me and I'm a longtime listener and I'm excited to listen to my own voice for the first time.

26:25
Caitlin Bricker
Thank you so much. We'll see you soon. CPG BFFs we've now arrived together at the end of another episode of the Startup CPG Podcast. As you may know, we're not just the top globally ranked CPG podcast. We're a community of tens of thousands of CPG founders and experts and you should join us. If you haven't already. Head to startupcpg.com to sign up. You'll get an invite to our Slack community, hear about events near you, and get access to opportunities that connect you with buyers, investors and other brands. It's free, so what are you waiting for? I'll see you in September, Slack and in real life. Thanks for listening.