The Startup CPG Podcast

Susan Hartman 1
We started regionally, we self distributed and that allows you to get a lot of feedback directly from the retailer, from the consumer, and it allows you to control the messaging, control your growth. And really until you have to go to a distributor, it's a really nice way to grow and trial. And then if you have to change things, you're not paying slotting fees over again. You're not worried about all the implications that happen if you don't do everything perfectly the first time. So most people tell you need 40 points of distribution to unlock a distributor or sometimes if just one big anchor will do it. So you don't have to worry about it, you don't have to deal with it until you get one of those anchor stores.

00:50
Susan Hartman 1
And then once you do, a lot of times they don't want to deal with a bunch of little brands.

00:56
Grace Kennedy
Hello everyone and welcome back to the startup CPG podcast. This is Grace and I'm here with another founder fe. Today I'm talking to Susan Hartman, the co founder of Recoup, a gut healthy hydration brand. Recoup is gearing up for a big year with a national launch at Sprouts and plans to develop a new sku. Susan and I talk all about how they're supporting their nationwide expansion, their approach to fundraising, and the trends she's seeing in the beverage category at large. I hope you enjoy this episode and as always, let me know what you think. Hello everyone, this is Grace and I am so excited to be joined by Susan Hartman today. Susan is one of the co founders of Recoup Beverage. Welcome to the show, Susan.

01:50
Susan Hartman 1
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

01:52
Grace Kennedy
Yes, I'm so excited to have you here. You know, startup cpg, the team, we're all a fan and Daniel is of course a big fan of Recoup as well. But I'd love for you to introduce yourself and your brand to our listeners. Sure.

02:06
Susan Hartman 1
I'm Susan Hartman. I'm co founder of Recoup. We are a gut healthy hydration beverage. Always have a can with me. And we are using three key ingredients, prebiotic fiber, electrolytes and ginger. So great for gut health and hydration. We are regenerative, organic certified and the first beverage brand actually have that certification which is super exciting. And we have no added sugar and no stevia. So really clean ingredient list and really delicious beverage.

02:34
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, that's awesome. I love all things gut friendly that are also not always kombucha or sauerkraut or something like that. I'd love to hear a little bit about how you came to recoup. And I know you have a co founder Cwat, and I'd love to hear a little bit about why, how you guys came together and decided to create this product.

02:53
Susan Hartman 1
Sure. We connected through a fellow mba. So we both went to Cornell for our MBA programs, but were in different class and a friend of mine knew that I was in brand management and marketing and said, you know, there's someone I'd like you to meet. And so I met Siwat. He had actually started Recoup just in his kitchen in his tiny studio in Manhattan. And when I met him, he was in a small commercial kitchen. He was self distributing. But he had created this amazing product and I was really excited about him and his story. So he actually spent the first three years of his life in the hospital, went through 10 major surgeries before he was 12. Was born with a lot of gut health and digestion issues. And his mom is Thai, so she'd make him these ginger home remedies.

03:35
Susan Hartman 1
And over the course of time they helped him with his recovery. And he went on, got a master's in physiology and master's in business and was creating this product really to help people feel better. So I met him, was really excited about the ginger and kind of the deliciousness of the product. But I was a college athlete and so for me, I put on that sports lens and recovery lens, thought, you know, this is hydrating, it's delicious. It's good for recovery. Really, anyone could be drinking this and benefiting from this. And so we joined forces. I left Big CPG and joined as co founder and we repositioned and relaunched Recoup.

04:14
Grace Kennedy
Wow. Oh my God. So exciting. And I'm sure a bit scary though, to leave Big cpg. How did you come to that decision that you were kind of ready to make the jump and go into founding this small, you know, CPG brand?

04:27
Susan Hartman 1
It was a lot of things. I feel like I. Some people probably grew up with a corporate environment in mind and were kind of, you know, ready for that. I sort of ended up in that way through really amazing different experiences. So I worked a nonprofit. I traveling sales internationally for a long time. And so I loved brand management. I loved marketing. But through my innovation work at Unilever and Campbell's and eos, what I really loved was creating a product and designing that and building something that connected with people. So the leap into entrepreneurship made sense for me. Just from that, you know, I get to own and build and really develop something that is personal to me. And impactful for people. So that kind of passion made the transition easier, right?

05:13
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, you gotta have a passion for it if you're gonna dive into it. Cause it's a lot and like you said, a big transition. So when you and CWOC came together and decided you were going to, you know, sort of relaunch, recoup, what were some of the first things you did together to start that journey?

05:29
Susan Hartman 1
So we met casually for about a year before he asked me if I'd be interested in being co founder. So we already had a relationship built. One of the biggest things was table stakes for me was I don't want to join if it's not a shelf stable beverage. So he got to the point where he was ready to start to do that. So our first step was really reformulating to be a shelf stable beverage and refine the flavor is work on making it kind of delicious and very commercial. So that was step one. You know, a lot was just kind of building trust and sharing ideas and figuring out how were going to work together and dividing up the world, which, as you know, in the entrepreneurship world, there's a lot of things to do. So trying to figure out our lanes.

06:12
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, I imagine maybe some of your lane was the branding and the marketing. And I'm curious how you approached the branding of Recoup. And like you said, you brought in this element of sort of the recovery piece. And how did you decide which sort of elements to hone in on in your branding? Because there are so many ways probably you could market and brand a product like Recoup.

06:34
Susan Hartman 1
Honestly, that can be one of the most overwhelming pieces, is how do you distill your message? How do you really get focused? Because I had that formal brand management training. I mean, I built a brand key and I did all the exercises that I would have done at Unilever to try to really develop the brand in a smart, thoughtful way. But a lot of that too was focused on who is our target consumer, you know, building it for them and with them in mind. And so having that be really clear from the beginning is an important way to hone out a lot of the stuff that's noise and is not going to be make or break for your brand. So that helped kind of being really focused on who were targeting, who was it going to serve.

07:15
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. For somebody who maybe doesn't have your brand building experience or your marketing experience, how would you advise them when they're sitting down to figure out their marketing or their branding? Like, what are some of those first steps or maybe the uninitiated among us.

07:31
Susan Hartman 1
Sure. I think consumer first is definitely the what any marketer will tell you. And that has to be a very specific person. It can't be, you know, I want women or anyone who likes natural products. So the more focused you can be and precise in that will help a lot of how you make those decisions. And then it needs to be understandable for people. And so if you've got all these great differentiators, but they don't really tie together or they don't build a story, you really have to think about what is your one or two liner and how do you get to that. So when we first launched, were hydration and health was kind of how we thought about it. And I was running, I don't know, a year or so ago, and I was like, got healthy hydration.

08:17
Susan Hartman 1
Like it just came to me as I was running. I like, I was like, I like that. And that kind of tied them together a little bit more succinctly than how we used to say. And especially having gut health being really tangible versus hydration and health, which is a little nebulous. So it's always an iteration. It's not like we thought of this and it's never changed. We've been through a few different variations of the product and the packaging.

08:39
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. And speaking to the packaging, I'm curious how you decided for, you know, also the specific form recoup comes in like the skinny can versus, you know, that some come in like the shorter can that are a little wider. And some of those decisions feel like obviously really purposeful. But what were some of the sort of the meaning behind those decisions?

09:01
Susan Hartman 1
Sure. A little bit of background when we first launched. So were coming from a fresh juice product into a shelf, stable product. And we launched January 2020. So we've been around for a little bit, but we launched as a more of an alternative to a sports drink. And with that positioning, were in a bottle. We were in more of a plastic sports drink type of bottle. And that's how we entered the market. And what we found over the course of time was that people were actually adding recoup to sparkling water. And so let's pilot a sparkling version. Knowing that were going to be carbonated in a can, we looked at what are more of the natural products in. And that slim can, the 12 ounce Sleek, is a little bit more of a premium can. It cues functional cues natural.

09:48
Susan Hartman 1
So a lot of it, when you come to packaging is what's going to. If my person's spending two seconds in the aisle, how can I hone them in from the beginning? And so choosing the packaging that's right for your category and your benefit proposition is a really important piece.

10:02
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, totally. That makes sense. And I. It's something I've never thought about, like, what does the size of the can or the type of can signal? But it's really true now that you point that out that like, you do see those cans lined up in a row and you're like, oh, yeah, those are the health drinks. So you guys, it sounds like, have been through a few iterations of what Recoup is. And in its current iteration, how are you sort of getting it into people's hands and making sure, you know, customers are seeing it on their shelves or are, you know, seeing it online? Like, what's been your approach to getting to customers?

10:37
Susan Hartman 1
Sure. I will say this packaging too, from a design standpoint, we did last year. So this is all new design. And having good packaging that stands out to people is definitely important. So that's one of the main ways that you can grab someone's attention at shelf is being really visual, being, you know, standing out, having a good brand block when you put a few together. That's why we did the waves at the bottom. You get a little bit of this kind of cohesiveness that helps you stand out on shelf, especially if you can have three or more SKUs from a marketing strategy standpoint. So we are, we're in retail and we are focusing a lot of our efforts on driving to retail and really supporting retail. So we're currently in Wegmans Erewhon Jimbo's Mother's Market.

11:24
Susan Hartman 1
We did a pilot with Sprouts in October and we will actually be launching nationally in sprouts in Q2. So we've got a lot of great accounts. And so our main goal has been to support retail drive to retail and that has been through using Go to IO with digital rebates, using Instacart, where we can really get people to pick up and try and retail a little bit of social media and Facebook, Instagram ads, those sort of thing. But since we've been retail first, we haven't spent a ton in those areas. And then the other piece is just building our community. So we do really well in fitness studios, hot yoga studios, and that kind of connection with our consumer, getting her feedback, getting to know, you know, where people are drinking it, what's moving them.

12:10
Susan Hartman 1
That's a really great way that we grow our community and grow word of mouth and advocacy.

12:15
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I could definitely see that after like a hot yoga class, wanting something that offers that, you know, gut healthy hydration. As you said, backing up one step. I'm thinking about how you approached like which retailers to get into and what your strategy has been in terms of, you know, it sounds like you're about to go into sprouts nationally, but have you focused, you know, did you focus more regionally at first and how did you kind of decide which retailers to target as you are getting on shelf?

12:43
Susan Hartman 1
I would say for. Especially for people who are really in, you know, still small brand mode and building mode. We started regionally, we self distributed and that allows you to get a lot of feedback directly from the retailer, from the consumer. And it allows you to control the messaging, control your growth. And really until you have to go to a distributor, it's a really nice way to grow and trial. And then if you have to change things, you're not paying slotting fees over again. You know, you're not worried about all the implications that happen if you don't do everything perfectly the first time. So that was how we started and we started in New York. So my co founder and I were both in New York.

13:23
Susan Hartman 1
We actually lived a block and a half from each other, which we discovered after a year and yeah, but we started there and kind of built out that market and then looked at more regional launches, started to get into regional groceries and I moved out to California during the pandemic. So now I'm in San Diego area and now I'm leading kind of our west coast expansion. So now we've graduated to distributors and soon we'll be national distributors. But that's, you know, it's a process.

13:52
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. I'm curious what the jump or how the shift was from self distributing to working with distributors.

13:59
Susan Hartman 1
It's one, it's through time and ability and then it's also landing anchor. So most people tell you need 40 points of distribution to unlock a distributor at least or sometimes if just one big anchor will do it. So you don't have to worry about it. You don't have to deal with it until you get one of those anchor stores. And then once you do, a lot of times they don't want to deal with a bunch of little brands. So you have to go to a distributor. And so that's how it happened. We got into like Wegmans Unlocked a distributor on the east coast. And there were 96 Wegmans locations, so that was a big one. And then Jimbos and Erewhon unlocked the distributor for SoCal.

14:36
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, that makes sense. I'm curious, too, thinking about the different markets you're in, like, you know, Southern California and New York and the different stores you're in, like a Wegmans versus, you know, an Erewhon. Have you noticed a difference in like, the. Those different markets and like, how you're marketing to consumers, or have you found that your consumer sort of stays consistent no matter the store or region?

15:01
Susan Hartman 1
I mean, it's. I'll tell you, it's a little bit of a black box of like, who exactly is buying us at Wegmans. Right. Because I don't. I can make assumptions, but I don't see that exact data. So you're trying to kind of work backwards based on your digital activations and the information that you can get. I would say it's probably a slightly different consumer, especially than the Erewhon consumer. That's a very distinct archetype. But having it be relevant, going to market a little bit differently in your messaging, in your, you know, some people are going to care more about the fact that it's no added sugar, no stevia, then they're going to care about regenerative, organic, certified. And so crafting those messages and trying to reach that audience in a way that's going to be most meaningful and impactful for them.

15:42
Susan Hartman 1
With Erewhon, having influencers and tastemakers and people who are kind of in the LA scene is very helpful.

15:49
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. And now that you're sort of gearing up to launch nationally with Sprouts, what is going into that and how are you preparing to make the jump to that launch?

16:00
Susan Hartman 1
Sure. We got a little bit of a intro because we did the pilot, so were in there. They call it their innovation set. Highly recommend for small brands that are trying to figure out how to launch at Sprouts and how to get in. They're developing this really nice feeder program to give brands a less of a intense trial option because they buy the inventory up front. So it's not like, oh, hey, you're going to be national and Sprouts next week make a hundred thousand units and hopefully we'll sell them. Right. So it's. They give you the forecast, you make it, they see how it does, but you can support that program. So we did support that through digital coupons, through drive to store type of programs, through actually activating some communities.

16:42
Susan Hartman 1
So I created a Facebook group for the launch and invited people in from mom Facebook groups that I'm in and friends that I went to high school with and. And all that to try to just get some boots on the ground for people to actually go take pictures of the set and tell us what was happening. And in some cases, you know, you'd have someone take a picture of the set and they're like, hey, there's no product on there. But I can see the inventory, that there are a case of each in the back. And so then I'm calling the store and sending them in. So, you know, it's very manual in a lot of ways. Whether you use merchandisers for that or whether you use your network, it's really important to have eyes and ears in the store as much as you can.

17:21
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. How are you planning to do that when you are in nationwide and you're properly launching? Are you know, you're going to still rely on these. These friends and family, or are you reaching out to, like, you know, other sort of avenues to get those eyes and ears in the store?

17:37
Susan Hartman 1
I mean, still leaning a bit on friends and family. Probably do a little bit more investment in merchandising services. And we did demos for the pilot. We'll do demos as well and in the top markets. And that's always a great way to just have a pulse and see what's going on as well as trial and get people to taste it.

17:58
Grace Kennedy
Yes, right. There's nothing better than getting someone to taste it and then they buy it. And I'm so that way that, like, we're all so susceptible to a little, you know, it's in front of you and you try it and you're like.

18:11
Susan Hartman 1
Oh, I love this.

18:12
Grace Kennedy
This is great. And especially when you're doing your grocery shopping, I always like to get myself a little fun beverage while I'm grocery shopping, because little treat, you know. Yeah, you got to get yourself a little treat. But then I like when it's something a little bit healthy and I'm not getting like, well, I. I've never liked soda, to be honest, but I'm anomaly in that way, so. But I always like a little something healthy while I'm getting my shopping done. How you found your retail partnerships, like working with those retailers or calling the store and being like, hey, I. You know, it's. There's no recoup on the shelves, but I know you have an inventory. How have you approached, like, managing those relationships and those partnerships?

18:48
Susan Hartman 1
You have to be actively reaching out a lot. And so I mean, there are some retailers that when you talk to them, they're great and they're, you know, they'll share information and they're really warm, but they don't always email you back. And so it might take a lot of emails in order to get a response. And that's kind of the, I would say the common thread in the industry is especially the buyers. They're busy, they get hundreds of emails a day. And so if you can get time with them, most of the ones I've worked with have been really great, but it's just a matter of getting in front, you know, do what you can. So, like, I talked to the Jimbo's buyer today at a naturally Network event and had a great conversation with him and he's been very open and very positive.

19:29
Susan Hartman 1
But if you see that someone's going to be on a podcast or they're going to be at Expo west or something, just do the work to get as much FaceTime as you can.

19:36
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, and speaking of Expo West, I know you guys are going to Expo west and, you know, a few other trade shows and when this is airing, everyone will be coming back from xos and probably be exhausted. But I'd love to hear about how you are preparing for something like Expos, which is such a huge investment both in your time and your energy and your money. And you know, what sort of your goals are for attending Expo this year.

20:01
Susan Hartman 1
Sure. So a big one of our goals is raising capital. So I actually, let's hope I've won it by the time this announced. But I am a finalist for the Expo West Pitch Slam. So the big one that new Hope puts on and also the NCN Nutritional Capital Network Pitch Slam. So I'll be on stage twice at Expo, which is great visibility for the brand for, you know, for consumers, but hopefully for investors as well. And then getting in front of retail buyers and just expanding our reach. I mean, Sprouts is a big customer for us, so that's going to be our focus and our priority to make sure we do that well and not try to get in too many doors too quickly.

20:40
Susan Hartman 1
But having those conversations at Expo, building those relationships, getting the FaceTime, as I mentioned, that'll be a big piece of why we're going to be there. My advice for smaller brands, last year we did the Organic Marketplace. Obviously you have to be organic certified, but that was a perfect dip your toe into Expo because it's one day you can't spend a lot on your booth, you can only do a banner and a, you know, a tablecloth. So it's not taking a ton of money to do the activation. And that was just perfect for us to get some visibility to be present and to kind of, you know, kick it off.

21:13
Grace Kennedy
Do you have like specific buyers? You? I know some people before they go to Expo, you know, have like a list of people and they have their picture and they're like ready to stop them in this hall if they see them. But I'm curious if you have any specific strategy for how you get that FaceTime. I mean, obviously the people walk by you, they come up to the booth, but how do you sort of approach making Expo sort of meet your needs?

21:37
Susan Hartman 1
I love the idea of a bingo card of all the people that you want to talk to. Doing outreach ahead of time as much as you can. So, you know, it might just help them if they're walking around. Oh, I think I saw an email from that person. It might bring them over when they might not have thought of you otherwise. Or ideally they actually email you back and you get a meeting or get them to have your booth on their list. I have really good vision, so I'm the eagle eyes who stands in the aisle and I'll be like 500 yards away.

22:04
Susan Hartman 1
There's a buyer badge and having like a runner that goes out and greets people and talks to them and just make sure that you are out in front of your booth or next to your booth versus standing behind the counter and hoping that people come to you. You really do have to be proactive and be respectful. Obviously people, you know, don't want to be hounded, but they're there, that's their job. They do want to talk to brands. So as politely as you can do that, making sure that you find them and you get in front of them. Some of the after party and other events around Expo can be a really good place. If you see someone speaking, you know where they will be. So doing some of that homework as well.

22:42
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, totally.

22:43
Susan Hartman 1
I do want to say this year we actually won a booth from included cpg. So we're a certified minority owned. They invest and advocate for minority owned businesses. So we're super grateful to be at Expo with that presence because of them. And you know, if it was just on us to do that level of activation and spend, I don't know if we would have done the whole booth this year. We might have done the Organic Marketplace again just for budget concerns. But you know, were able to get it through included and so super grateful for that opportunity.

23:16
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, that's awesome. I've heard so many, you know, I've talked to so many brands who have done that program and they really valued it and it's such a great opportunity for brands such as three Coup. I'm also thinking about, you mentioned that, you know, you're hoping to attract maybe some investor eyeballs when you're doing these pitch slams. And you know, I know the budget is always tight for a small CPG company, but how have you guys approached your funding? You know, over these last few years you've been in business and then now, as you're moving into maybe potentially attracting some, you know, capital investment, what is your strategy or approach to doing that?

23:54
Susan Hartman 1
Sure. We started off, like a lot of brands, self funded. We did a friends and family round in 2021 and that was with a convertible note. We have since decided to use a safe note, so that's, I would say, becoming more popular. A few years ago, convertible was a little bit more popular. So now we're using a safe and we're in the middle of a raise right now, so maybe we'll be done by the time this podcast airs. But I'm raising 750k with a safe. And really we've reached out to friends, family, angels.

24:25
Susan Hartman 1
Looking at both of our alumni networks, a lot of, I would say local community groups like angel groups or local network groups have been a great resource, whether they're investing or they just know someone who knows someone and just having that conversation and being open about it, you never know who you're going to connect with or how it's going to manifest. So I think just being open with what you're doing and then obviously getting on stage and doing pitch slams doesn't hurt.

24:52
Grace Kennedy
Yes, definitely. This might be a dumb question, but if, you know, if I don't ask the dumb questions, who will? But I don't know anything about investing. I'm just gonna be honest. What is a safe note?

25:01
Susan Hartman 1
It is a debt that converts to equity at a later point of time. Okay, so. And that's. It's a vehicle. So convertible note or safe are both ways to raise money using debt. And what that allows founder to do is raise money without saying, this is the exact valuation it basically recognizes. Hey, this is early stage. It wouldn't be fair to anyone to put evaluation on it yet. So we're going to put evaluation cap and that's going to allow you to convert, you know, with certain terms. But we're going to basically put the Evaluation down the road. And so that's super handy because otherwise you might have $10,000 in sales, but next year you could have a million. And so it really allows you to raise capital without having to put a stake in the ground just yet.

25:47
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, totally. That makes a lot of sense. How did you guys come to the decision to get outside investment, you know, both from friends and family when you did your earlier round, but also now when you're seeking even beyond friends and family?

26:00
Susan Hartman 1
Beverage is expensive. So it's not like, oh, we came to the decision because I was just tired of using all my millions. Like you're probably, if you're going to build a scale up CPG business, unless you have a lot of cash laying around, like you're probably going to need to raise money or if you can build it in a way where it's making profit margin from day one and you never have to do that great, all the better. But you still, even if you're in that scenario, you might find a time when, hey, you want to do that sprouts launch and you need to raise whatever capital to make that happen and to get to the next step in growth. So it's going to be different for everyone.

26:37
Susan Hartman 1
It does put pressure on you, it does change the game and change the way that you make decisions and run your business. So don't take it lightly. But it's pretty common if you're trying to build something a large scale to need at some point to raise capital.

26:51
Grace Kennedy
Totally, absolutely. And yeah, beverage is expensive and it's also very competitive. And I'm curious, you know, you've been in beverage for the last, I guess five years now and you become, I just feel like it's exploding every year with more and more products and more people wanting, you know, different types of hydration or different types of coffee or whatever. And I'm just curious what you've noticed about the way the beverage category has changed and evolved and how you see recoup being a part of that and also standing out amongst your competitors.

27:25
Susan Hartman 1
I mean, so much has happened in the last five years and I wasn't paying as much attention in the five years before that. So I'm sure a lot happened then. Just the explosion of this whole better for you soda category has been really substantial and we're happy to be a part of that, even though we don't necessarily use the word soda, but we are a carbonated beverage and so we fit that occasion for some people. And you've just seen this increase in desire for healthy products, pushback on sugar as a huge trend. And so people are being more cautious about what they're drinking and they're drinking more of the good things.

28:05
Susan Hartman 1
So I think that's the big consumer shift is there's more and more beverage consumption going on and they're looking at, you know, better for you beverages as the option and being more aware of what that means. So as a product that has no added sugar and no stevia, we see a lot of people that are super excited to not have added sugar, but they're tired of just having this bitter, weird flavor that comes with it. So the steaks are getting higher and higher every year on how it needs to taste and be functional. I think things just used to be functional and people like sucked it up and dealt with it and now the bar is higher to be delicious and functional. So we're excited to feel like we're in a great space with that. We feel like our flavor is amazing.

28:50
Susan Hartman 1
But there's still a lot of products out there, especially everything with ketones in it that like, it just, it does not taste good. And they're, they might have great function, but they're not something that you look forward to drinking. So we're excited to kind of play both of those pieces.

29:05
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, definitely. I feel like the days of sort of chugging the like wheatgrass shot are kind of over. I feel like we're not putting ourselves through that anymore.

29:14
Susan Hartman 1
Yeah. And, and you know, you don't have to, it doesn't have to taste bad to be healthy. And that's, I think that's how a lot of people saw things for a while. But even Poppy and Olipop kind of taking, I would say an average soda consumer and bringing them on the journey towards healthier is changing how those people shop.

29:36
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, totally. I'm curious, I'm just thinking of the name of your brand too, Recoup. And I was thinking of alipoppy, which is very funny to me that they're like the same name. But how did you guys decide on Recoup as the name of the product?

29:50
Susan Hartman 1
So when we started out, Ginger was, has always been core to our product. Ginger has over a hundred medical studies on the benefits everything from digestion, pregnancy related nausea, settling your stomach emotion sickness, all that sort of stuff to muscle recovery. And so we really thought of it as this is a drink that's helping people feel better. And so that idea of Recoup help you get back to your best self has been key to the Brand.

30:19
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, I love that. So thinking a little bit more broadly of your whole time as a founder, I always like to ask, what has been one of the biggest setbacks or hurdles you've had to face and how have you gotten through it? Or if you're still struggling with it, how are you sort of trying to get through it?

30:39
Susan Hartman 1
I would say one of the biggest things is just managing the complexity every day and the prioritization. And so that's something that everyone's going to run into. There are a million things that you could do and there are only a few that you need to do. And so I think one of the biggest learnings for me has been saying no to things and just putting the priority on the stuff that's actually going to move the needle. So that's been a challenge to learn and something that took us a little while to get through. But especially now that we're growing a lot, it's like we don't. I don't have time to waste on some of these nitty gritty things. And so, yeah, just have to say no.

31:19
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. What's been one of the hardest things to say no to?

31:23
Susan Hartman 1
I'm very social, so I like anything that's out with people and away from my desk. So, you know, events and sponsorship opportunities where it's like, oh, it would be great to get the product in front of these people, but not at this expense or not. It's gonna take my whole day. And I actually should be working on my whole food submission or working on something like that. So I think the things that can be personally really fun but are not going to move the needle. And then, you know, we like to help people. So yeah, when someone asks us for a donation or wants us to be part of their event, it's flattering and want to do it, but we can't afford to do everything.

32:02
Grace Kennedy
Totally. You can't just send out endless packages of recoup because I always think about how heavy beverages are too, and just to ship around. I'm like, that's just a lot of money.

32:14
Susan Hartman 1
Yeah. The other challenging thing I would say is hiring and finding good people. So we had, we hired a salesperson who turned out to be not good and not trustworthy and really got burnt in that situation. Even though we did the background check and went through all the right paths. And so that's made us a little gun shy in terms of you're bringing people in. So I'm not a micromanager. Like, I'm happy to let go of some things, but it is an investment of time. Anytime you bring someone into the team and that can be a challenge of just finding the right people.

32:48
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. Who are you bringing on now? Or maybe you've already brought them on, but how. What sort of roles are you prioritizing bringing on to the team?

32:58
Susan Hartman 1
We're still small. So right now my next we have a part time marketing person who's been super helpful and our next role would probably be like more of a boots on the ground type of salesperson, probably doing merchandising and sales in one of our key markets. And so those are things that are on my mind for next steps.

33:18
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely.

33:19
Susan Hartman 1
Raising capital will help us, you know, get to that.

33:21
Grace Kennedy
Do that. Yeah, exactly.

33:22
Susan Hartman 1
Yeah.

33:23
Grace Kennedy
If any investors are listening.

33:25
Susan Hartman 1
Yeah, exactly. But I would say as for the smaller founders out there, outsourcing and leaning on experts versus trying to do everything yourself. So, you know, we'll probably go to a broker before we hire an in house salesperson. So things like that you can. There are plenty of systems and resources out there in the CPG world that you can tap into without trying to design it from scratch.

33:53
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, totally. Outsourcing is definitely a great way to do it. I'm thinking about 2025 for recoup and beyond. And I'm wondering, obviously you're launching into Sprouts, which is very exciting, but what else are you excited about this year for recoup and where do you hope to see, you know, recoup go in this year and also beyond.

34:12
Susan Hartman 1
This year in 2025. So we'll be focused on sprouts that will unlock Khe and so anyone who is using KHI as a distributor, basically we're going to be in all their DCs. So we'll be looking at who are the strategic targets to kind of push out with that distributor. Same with our current distributors in the northeast and in SoCal. Like how can we maximize the distribution networks that we already have versus trying to land too many new ones? That's the priority for 2025. We are submitting to Whole Foods. So if they're listening, their functional beverage review is coming up. And so that would be. If you get in. I think they do their reset in October. So that would be at the end of. Towards the end of the year.

34:57
Susan Hartman 1
But that could be a great regional win for us to kind of be thoughtfully expanding. But not too much at one time.

35:04
Grace Kennedy
Absolutely.

35:05
Susan Hartman 1
Yeah.

35:05
Grace Kennedy
It's a hard game to play. I feel like of the how much to expand versus you know, focus on where you are and that breadth versus depth conversation, I know, is a hard one to balance as a founder, but, you know, selfishly, would love to see you guys at Whole Foods, because that's my closest grocery store, and I go there all the time.

35:24
Susan Hartman 1
Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah. I also did get a question from Vire recently of are we going to launch a fourth sku? And so that is on my to do list of development. So we have. We have one partially in development, but looking at when would we get that out in the world and making sure to do it at the right time.

35:43
Grace Kennedy
Yes. Exciting. So that would be like a new flavor.

35:46
Susan Hartman 1
Yes.

35:47
Grace Kennedy
Cool. Okay. That's very exciting.

35:50
Susan Hartman 1
That's my. That's the stuff I love. That's my favorite part is the product development and creation. Mm.

35:57
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. Just taste testing all day. That's super fun.

35:59
Susan Hartman 1
Who.

36:00
Grace Kennedy
Who wouldn't want to do that?

36:01
Susan Hartman 1
My CPG experience. So I was at EOS Products, so I used to taste the lip balms. So having to, like, eat 40 lip balms in a day is not quite as pleasant as, you know, tasting a bunch of beverages.

36:14
Grace Kennedy
So definitely not.

36:16
Susan Hartman 1
I.

36:16
Grace Kennedy
That just blew my mind. I had no idea that even had to happen. You had to eat the lip balms. That is definitely not ideal. But, you know, someone has to do it, so. Hey.

36:29
Susan Hartman 1
Yeah, someone's getting bumps. Yeah.

36:31
Grace Kennedy
Well, as we're coming to the end of our conversation, I'd love to ask, how can the Startup CPG community support Recoup and, you know, follow along on your journey?

36:40
Susan Hartman 1
I love that. And I will say that Startup CPG has been such a great resource just from the content that you put out to the opportunities to connect with buyers. So I really appreciate everything that. That you guys do, which has been amazing from a community standpoint. So buying Recoup is always great. We are on Amazon as well as the retailers that I mentioned. Wegmans, Erewhon, Jimbo's, Soon To Be Sprouts, but without spending any money, just, you know, helping to share content, whether it's on LinkedIn or on Instagram. We're at Recoup Wellness, we're on TikTok, but I need to do more of that and leaving a review. And so if you like a brand, no matter what the brand, leave a review. It helps so much.

37:22
Susan Hartman 1
And that's an easy thing that you can take five minutes and do today and leave a few reviews for the brands that you like.

37:27
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, that's a great reminder to myself as well. I need to go review some brands after we get off this call and get show them some love because yeah, I know the reviews can do a lot. Well everyone should, you know, either buy recoup or follow recoup and share everything about them. And I hope when this airs you've won every pitch slam and you know, everything's worked out. But I can't wait to see, you know, where recoup goes next and you know, good luck on the whole journey.

37:54
Susan Hartman 1
Thank you. Thanks so much.

37:56
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, thanks for coming on the show.

38:01
Speaker 3
All right, everyone, thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, it would help us out so much if you left a 5 star review on ratethispodcast.com startupcpg I am Grace Kennedy, the host of the Founder Feature series. So feel free to add me on LinkedIn or reach out to me on Slack. I'm always on the hunt for new and exciting brands to feature and if you're a potential sponsor who would like to appear on the podcast, Please email partnerships startupcpg.com and finally, as a reminder for anyone listening, if you haven't already, we would love for you to join our community on Slack. You can sign up via our website, startupcpg.com.