The Startup CPG Podcast

Suzannah Raff
I was just very frustrated with what was out there because I didn't want to wear the perfume disguised as deodorant under my arms. And it just. Nothing worked. And I kind of took a look and I actually have a background in business. I have a master's in business and I worked in strategy and consulting for many years and I kind of just strategically looked at the category and I said, so many people are really want a natural deodorant and that's why they're doing so well. But nobody's getting it right. Imagine if we get it right. Imagine if we really put ingredients first and we make super formula that is truly effective for everybody. And we leave out the perfume, we leave out the synthetic fragrance.

00:51
Suzannah Raff
I knew I could make some things that smelt incredible because I knew I had a good nose and so I really just jumped in. I do not come from a CPG background, but five years in, I hope I'm a CPG expert by.

01:06
Caitlin Bricker
Hey everybody, this is Kaitlyn Brucker, editor at Startup cpg. We are back with another founder feature. Ever wonder what deodorant would be like if someone actually figured out the formula instead of just slapping perfume into a stick? Today we're talking with Suzannah Raff, founder of Cleo+Coco, a clean personal care brand that eliminates synthetic fragrance entirely. After getting frustrated with natural deodorants that didn't work, Suzannah spent two years developing a super formula that actually keeps you fresh all day. She went from working in complete isolation as a first time founder to landing a 9SKU nationwide Whole Foods launch. As someone who had a fragrance free wedding and used to be a buyer for personal care products, I am completely here for this fragrance free mission. Enjoy. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Startup CPG podcast.

01:58
Caitlin Bricker
This is Caitlin and today I'm here with Suzannah Raff, founder of Cleo+Coco. Suzannah, welcome to the show.

02:04
Suzannah Raff
Hi. Thank you so much for having me here.

02:06
Caitlin Bricker
Caitlin, it's so nice to have you here. My background is as a buyer and personal care and beauty products. So it's really fun talking to a healthy, clean beauty and personal care brand. So thanks for doing what you're doing and thanks for making the time for being here.

02:23
Suzannah Raff
That's exciting. I didn't know that about your background.

02:26
Caitlin Bricker
Just a little surprise for anybody that doesn't know. I would love for anybody who's not already familiar with Cleo and Coco for them to get introduced. So let's hear it straight from you. What is Cleo and Coco?

02:40
Suzannah Raff
So Cleo and Coco is a clean personal care brand that is revolutionizing the category. Once again, we go above and beyond aluminum free. We are clean all across the board. And we really believe ingredient efficacy. We make personal care products that are truly effective, but also really the highest level of clean. So we obviously aluminum free for our deodorants, but paraben free, phthalate free. And one huge differentiator is that we will never use synthetic fragrance. Synthetic fragrance is significantly worse than aluminum. It can hide up to 3,000 different chemicals that have linked to everything from infertility, hormone disruption to cancer, and so many other diseases. So we really leave that synthetic fragrance out of our personal care products. And I can talk more about it a little bit later.

03:38
Suzannah Raff
So we have a whole line of clean personal care products, from our deodorant balms to our deodorant powders that are also for hair and body. And then we also have a term that I coined, functional sprays. So this is our magnesium spray. So we've been around for about five years, and we can be found Omnichannel direct to consumer on Amazon. And as of July of this year, you can also find nine of our SKUs nationwide in Whole Foods Markets.

04:13
Caitlin Bricker
Congratulations. That's huge.

04:15
Suzannah Raff
It really is. Yes. We're very grateful for this incredible partnership with Whole Foods Market.

04:21
Caitlin Bricker
Wonderful. So there's a lot that I want to dive into there. First, I need to hear more about what got you into the clean beauty space and clean personal care from the beginning. What sparked that moment for you where you said, this is where I need to be? Was there any specific moment for you?

04:40
Suzannah Raff
I could talk for hours about that, but I'll try to be very succinct. So there were a few moments. I think the first moment was just being very frustrated with the deodorants on in the deodorant aisle and even more frustrated with the first generation of clean and natural deodorants that were coming about. I was always a scent person. I used to blend my own when I was very, you know, teenagers, I would mix perfumes and make my own scents. And then I stopped using aluminum. My mother told me I was pregnant. In nursing, don't put aluminum under your arms. You know it's going into your body. Baby could get it. So I stopped wearing aluminum. Nothing worked. But more than that, nothing smelt good.

05:24
Suzannah Raff
And as I started to read and learn more about ingredients while I was pregnant and nursing and after my babies, I started to get more involved in my health, Started to eat very clean and Read ingredients, and I read the ingredients on anything before I eat it. And starting to do the same thing with products. I was reading the ingredients on products and I learned that synthetic fragrances really bad. While I was nursing, I read that synthetic fragrance can disrupt, you know, it masks your natural body scent. And then a baby is comforted by the mother's natural scent. So I didn't want to mask my body scent with synthetic fragrance anymore. I also didn't want those chemicals because they're just so unhealthy. Especially because I used to put perfume under my arm instead of deodorant.

06:09
Suzannah Raff
So I was just very frustrated with what was out there because I didn't want to wear the perfume disguised as deodorant under my arms. And it just. Nothing worked. And I kind of took a look and I actually have a background in business. I have a master's in business and I worked in strategy and consulting for many years. And I kind of just strategically looked at the category and I said, so many people are really want a natural deodorant and that's why they're doing so well. But nobody's getting it right. Imagine if we get it right. Imagine if we really put ingredients first and we make super formula that is truly effective for everybody. And we leave out the perfume, we leave out the synthetic fragrance. I knew I could make some things that smelt incredible because I knew I had a good nose.

06:55
Suzannah Raff
And so I really just jumped in. I do not come from a CPG background, but five years in, I hope I'm a CPG expert by now. And I jumped in and I found a natural product manufacturer and we spent two years really researching and developing our formulas. So that was kind of that, to answer your question, that was really just this aha moment of I can do this. There's really still a white space to just go above and beyond aluminum free and do this properly because people really need it and want it a hundred percent.

07:27
Caitlin Bricker
I totally agree with that. I think you are spot on when you say that there is white space because I think as consumers, and maybe even buyers too, when we look at the deodorant category, it does look crowded, but that's just packages on a shelf. It really goes into the efficacy. And will this stain my clothes? Will it actually keep me from smelling all this whole list of things? And even like my personal experience with deodorant, maybe you've had the same. When I went from antiperspirant, which I used to joke and say, antiperspirant is like the scientific name for deodorant. It's really not. Antiperspirant and deodorant were just two different worlds for me. And when I made the switch to natural, I was going for these super baking soda heavy formulas and then formulas that were also super heavy in essential oils.

08:17
Caitlin Bricker
But when you find a brand that can really strike that balance, it's like striking gold.

08:22
Suzannah Raff
Thank you. Yes. People are very grateful. Finally, I found a natural deodorant that works. So, yes, we spent two years, like I said, perfecting our formula. And we have what we call our super formula, our Fab 5 odor fighting ingredients. So in our research, we saw that some deodorants worked for some people and not for other people. And so we took all of the best natural odor fighters and we put it into one super formula. So we use charcoal, but we use just enough of it. And charcoal is just this incredible magic ingredient. We use just enough of it that it pulls out odor and wetness without in it, but it still glides on creamy and clear. So they are have this like, beautiful color, but they glide on, like I said, creamy and clear. Gorgeous, gorgeous texture.

09:11
Suzannah Raff
So one of our odor fighters is charcoal. We use magnesium, which is an incredible odor fighter. And it's a mineral that is just good for your body. It's great to be putting that onto your skin. We use probiotics, we use mandelic acid. So we're balancing the microbiome under your arm. Super, super clean. Some of our formulas have a touch of baking soda. Most people who are sensitive to baking soda, it doesn't bother them because there's so many other activ ingredients that it doesn't need a lot of baking soda. And then, you know, we have chamomile and we have like cocoa butters and just like really skin soothing, gentle ingredients to really moisturize the underarms. And then of course, we've got our iconic essential oil blends. They're beautiful, they're not overpowering.

10:00
Suzannah Raff
And most importantly, they're not going to disrupt your hormones or, you know, cause migraines, you know, lead to any kind of illness. Because we're not hiding anything. It's not a fragrance. So if somebody wants to wear their favorite perfume, go ahead and wear your perfume, but you don't need that, those chemicals on your everyday personal care products. That's, you know, how we feel. Want to try to minimize the dangerous chemicals, the harmful chemicals. And when you're putting something on your body every day, sometimes a few times a day, it doesn't need those chemicals. So we really pride ourselves in being the highest level of efficacy and clean and you don't have to. They smell so good. I really feel they do.

10:41
Caitlin Bricker
I'm wearing the basil mint right now and those are two of my favorite scents. So you blended it into one. I am really enjoying it. Wore it yesterday while I was working out. Had it on all day. I can say that I did not have to apply a second time. Still smelled great at the end of the day.

10:58
Suzannah Raff
I love hearing that. That's exactly why we created our formulas. This is the basil mint. They smell incredible. And if you need just like it to uplift your day, just open it and smell it. And it's a nice pick me up.

11:10
Caitlin Bricker
That's awesome. I really do love the fact that you're using essential oils. You've touched on this already. But the synthetic fragrance. I've heard synthetic fragrance referred to as almost the secondhand smoke of personal care. Because not only is it a scent that you're putting on yourself, but other people can smell it on you. Especially if there's the phthalates in there, the plasticizers. It stays on your skin, it stays on your body. That's why you're smelling it all day long. I really appreciate that about you. Another maybe not so little known fact about myself is that I had a fragrance free wedding. It was on my wedding invitations. We asked all of our guests not to wear perfume or cologne because I'm super sensitive to it. I, I just wanted to enjoy my day and not have a headache.

11:54
Caitlin Bricker
So we did have a couple people who are like, okay, I'm not going to the wedding. Took it super personally because they love their perfume. But sometimes you got to be a little bit selfish, right?

12:05
Suzannah Raff
Wow, you are super sensitive. That's incredible. I'm so glad that you should made that shout out and mentioned that synthetic fragrance is like the new secondhand smell. Because it really is. Like even when I was talking about a baby inhaling it and smelling it on your body and masking your natural scent, but everywhere around you. I had a chiropractor who told me once that he would have somebody coming in wreaking of ax and say, I suffer from terrible migraines. And he was like, obviously stop putting that stuff on your body and maybe your migraines will go away. I think that in the past we never made that connection. And we're starting to realize we know now that there's a huge connection between food and what we put into our bodies.

12:52
Suzannah Raff
There's such a strong connection between what we're putting onto our bodies and our health as well. So, yeah, I mean, I know people like you. You're not alone, Caitlin. I have a friend who will not go to a hotel unless there are none of those plugins or fragrances. And she has a very hard time traveling with us. It's hard to find those, like, really clean, fragrance free vacation spots.

13:14
Caitlin Bricker
I can totally relate to your friend. It's always when I book a hotel room or an Airbnb and they say, like, any special requests? I always say like, please don't use any fragrance sprays. Don't use any heavily scented cleaning products if you can. It's not going to ruin my time, but it's definitely like, it puts a little bit of a damper on things because you're breathing it in constantly. And I relate to you too, because I have a toddler myself and that was one of the rules when I was pregnant. And then one of the rules when my daughter finally arrived was if you're going to come over and see us, please don't wear perfume or cologne. Because I want to smell my baby. If I want my baby to smell me too. If it's affecting me, it's definitely affecting her.

13:57
Suzannah Raff
That's right. Beautiful. Beautiful. I do believe that the next movement, we're just at the very beginning of the next movement, which is going to be synthetic fragrance movement and removing that from our products. And so we're definitely ahead of the curve by offering this whole suite of personal care products that remove the synthetic fragrance without taking out the scent experience. They still smell incredible. And that's you. You actually smell so much better than you remove the synthetic fragrance. And that's why I think Whole Foods recognize that we're really filling this big white space and that is why they're making this huge investment in Brio and Coco brand by launching nine SKUs nationwide, which is a huge launch and we are so excited for it. And it's an unusually large launch for Whole Foods markets.

14:50
Caitlin Bricker
I want to talk more about this. So my understanding is that you made the connection with the merchant for Whole Foods at the startup CPG section at Expo West. Is that true?

15:01
Suzannah Raff
That is very true. Startup CPG and joining the community really changed my life, or the life for Clio and Coco. Before that, I really didn't know CPG category. And as I was building my brand and learning, you know, finding suppliers and ingredients and everything else, until I discovered that I was in the CPG category and there was this Whole community, the Startup CPG community. I was really working in a vacuum. And really just as soon as I discovered Startup CPG Community, everything changed. And one of the first things was your Slack channel and listening to all the podcasts and starting to network. And then, you know, as a startup brand, we could not afford a booth at. I did at Expo west and this was just an incredible opportunity.

15:48
Suzannah Raff
I had a beautiful booth and table and had reached out to the Whole Foods buyer. And I think we met there. And yes, it was very exciting. And it also, you know, I'm so grateful. This must have been like over a year ago. Not Expo west, but the one before it.

16:07
Caitlin Bricker
Very cool. So I would love to hear more about the timeline there. From the point that you met the merchant at the show to the conversations that you had to now doing a national rollout. Can you talk to us about what that looks like?

16:21
Suzannah Raff
It's a long timeline. So I probably met the first merchant at Expo east and then she left. And so I had a contact and they loved my products. I think this is a very common story. Merchants move around a lot. So the merchant who I originally met, who was very interested, left, and then at Expo west, her replacement came and said, my predecessor told me to look for you. So it was just amazing that we had this beautiful display and she found us and was able to just see what her merchant saw. And so I sent her home with a lot of products and then we launched over a year later. So I think during Ex Nootopia now, I had a meeting with the buyer and that's when she told us that we want to launch you.

17:13
Suzannah Raff
And it was supposed to be R D3. It was supposed to be a March launch, and then it got pushed off just for internal purposes on their end. There's just a lot of paperwork and things that go on. And so then it got pushed off to a mid June launch. And then you probably know about this, but then UNFI had a cyber attack.

17:35
Caitlin Bricker
I'm laughing so that I don't cry.

17:37
Suzannah Raff
Right at the beginning of June. So if anybody went to Whole Foods and saw that their shelves were empty for most of the month of June, it was because of that cyber attack. But I think they really corrected it and handled it incredibly well. Incredibly smooth. I mean, I think that just delayed us getting on shelves by a few weeks, but it could have been so much worse. So I'm very grateful. I think that again, like, UNFI handled it beautifully. I think everything is up and running and smoothly again. There were Just, I guess, short sales for a few shelves. So by now we're probably been on shelves for about two, three weeks. It's the most exciting thing in the world to see in some stores.

18:17
Suzannah Raff
I went to Columbus Circle in Manhattan last week and it's one of largest stores in the country, at least, traffic wise and velocity wise. And we've got an entire shelf. Exactly. The buyer's vision, the merchant in her planogram. It's just incredible. It's very exciting. And then we get messages and emails from customers all over the country. You know, I saw you in Jackson Hole, I saw you in Boulder. It's really great. It's very exciting. Five years of work, I guess two years from the time I met with the first merchant and followed up. And then almost a year from the time they said, yes, we're going to put you on shelves and usually is. It's usually almost 12 months from the time you're told you're going to be on shelf until you can actually launch.

19:08
Suzannah Raff
Because there was a lot we needed to do to prepare.

19:11
Caitlin Bricker
That was going to be my next question. What did you do to Prepare to do a 9SKU launch nationwide?

19:18
Suzannah Raff
So a lot of things fell into place at the same time. I got accepted into an accelerator program called Beyond Skew. I think they're now called beyond cpg. Right before I found out that were going to be launched in whole foods nationwide, nine SKUs. And they were like, oh. They're like, do you realize what a big launch that is? That requires a lot of resources. So I immediately brought on ahead of Operations and Finance, who has a lot of experience working with startup brands, launching into Whole Foods, so to really manage operations and finance. And I really built very good relationships with my suppliers and my manufacturers because I've been working with them for a number of years. So I spoke to them, I said, this is what's coming. And they were, you know, very excited.

20:10
Suzannah Raff
We built out some forecasts and, you know, financing, it is always a challenge, but piece by piece, it's came together, we got some loans. Whole Foods Market has recently given us a loan, which is we're really grateful for. They've announced that partnership already. And I found some SBA loans and I had some angel investors who topped up a little bit. So piece by piece, we put it all together.

20:40
Caitlin Bricker
Wonderful. It sounds like it's a lot of work. I can only imagine the mindset that you have to be in when you're about to launch nationwide. It's like every founder's dream coming true. I could only imagine.

20:52
Suzannah Raff
And as everybody told me in the accelerator, this is where the real work comes in. It is a dream come true. I guess it's kind of, you know, Whole Foods especially is that big stamp of approval. You know, it's if you getting accepted there means that you really pass the ingredients and efficacy. And, you know, so many stews, they really believe in your vision. Our visions are perfectly aligned. I feel like we're, you know, like Tom's of Maine for the modern era. They're known for their trusted commitment for clean, natural ingredients. But, you know, we're kind of like using advanced green chemistry, focused on efficacy of today, because we can be so much more effective than, you know, a brand from 30, 40, 50 years ago. So we're just like Toms of Maine of 2.0, just revolutionizing the entire category.

21:43
Suzannah Raff
And I'm really excited about our functional sprays. You know, magnesium is this, like, magic ingredient. Like I said, we put it in our deodorants, and I was looking for a magnesium spray that didn't have menthol or melatonin in it, just plain magnesium, just to help relax for muscle pain and help me sleep at night. And it didn't exist. And so we said, you know, this is. We really should make this. It's just an incredible ingredient. It's such a super ingredient with nothing else in it. No synthetic fragrance. It's just some lavender and magnesium. And interestingly, the merchant. So when I introduced her to our magnesium spray, she said she was visiting a store, and she was in the whole body section, and somebody was actually asking the store associate for magnesium spray, and they didn't have it.

22:31
Suzannah Raff
And so she was very excited to add this. And so the magnesium spray is in the first aid aisle, while our deodorants and deodorant powders are in the deodorant aisle.

22:42
Caitlin Bricker
That's really cool that you were able to fill that white space without your product even being on the shelves yet. And it must have been an aha moment and a, hey, I found the right thing when the buyer had that interaction with the customer. So I'm very curious. You were just holding up your products. I think the color palette that you've chosen for your brand is very soothing. It's very in line with your ingredients and the mission and everything you're looking to deliver to your consumers. Talk to me about the name. I'm very curious about the name. Clio and Coco. Where did it come from?

23:15
Suzannah Raff
It's a Great question. We get asked it a lot. And we actually recently redid our websites to just enhance the whole purchase experience. And if you look at our website, it's really so cute. We've got, like, these moving, custom icons that are very much so the name. When you see the icons, you'll get it. So Cleo is for Cleopatra. Cleopatra is really known for her clean beauty regimen. She used charcoal and her milk baths. And she was just known for beauty and beauty care. So it's a combination of, like, because Cleopatra was really great, and then the cocoa was coconut oil, and, you know, just, like, the idea that it's, like, coming from nature. I also just used my. You know, from a business background, marketing K is a very good sound.

24:04
Suzannah Raff
Anything that starts with a K is known to sell Kleenex, Coca Cola. I mean, Sarah Blakely, you know, did it with Spanx and now her sneaks. So I was really brainstorming and looking for something with a cup in it. And when I came up with Clio, and then you need the URL to be available and so many other things. But when I came up with Clio and Coco, it was just universally. Everybody just loved it and said, that is so cute. That is so good. So that's how we came up with the name.

24:32
Caitlin Bricker
It is really good. It's memorable. It rolls off the tongue. It looks really good on your hat, too. It looks very nice, very aesthetically pleasing, very cool. And it would make, like, good pet names, too. I think they do.

24:46
Suzannah Raff
And a lot of people ask me, are those your daughter's names? I actually tried to figure out a name with my daughter's names, and it just. This came. The other names didn't come.

24:56
Caitlin Bricker
I'm sure she's flattered either way. So I'd love to know. You've been building this brand. You got yourself into a nationwide rollout with Whole Foods. Huge accomplishment. What do you have to share with other founders, especially in the beauty and personal care space? From your experience, any big pieces of advice stick out in your mind?

25:16
Suzannah Raff
So many. I mean, I think the first is you have to be really strong and really believe in your vision. And it can take a lot longer than you expect. But, you know, I think it's if you really believe in your vision, and then that's like, the first thing is just be strong. There's ups and downs. There are so many walls to break through. And we're so grateful for this accomplishment. It did take me five years to get here, which I think is probably a normal trajectory when you're building a really solid brand and not just something that's like quick in and out. And like I said, you know, if we're building like the Toms of Maine of the modern era, then it should take a little bit longer to just build that foundation, be really solid.

25:57
Suzannah Raff
I think that a lot of business owners or brand founders, you really need to know your key differentiators, like how are you different, how are you better? What is the white space that you're filling? There are a lot of natural aluminum free deodorants that entered around the same time as I did. But I was always very clear that they're just doing the same thing over and over again with some very loud marketing and they're just putting like perfume in a stick. I was like very clear that I wasn't going to jump on that band wagon. I wasn't just building something to make a quick exit. I wouldn't put those products on my kids bodies. I'm not putting those ingredients or making those kinds of products.

26:39
Suzannah Raff
So I think I was very clear about our values and the white space that were filling in the differentiators and it was just takes a while for the right buyer and the timing of the market and everything to align. But when you're really trying to do something good and your products are really good and the need is there, it will align, the stars will align eventually.

27:01
Caitlin Bricker
That's great advice. We're coming up on time so I would love for anybody listening to be able to find you online. We know you can find you in Whole Foods thankfully. So if anybody wants to follow along, learn more about you and more about your brand, where can they find you online?

27:16
Suzannah Raff
So you can find us at cleoand and coco.com and go check out our website. We've got these really cute little hieroglyphic icons on there and you know, really beautiful branding. It's a really beautiful experience. You can follow us on social media at CleoAndCoco Natural. So reach out to us. We love re ask us questions. You can find me. I'm at Suzannah Raff. It's S U Z A N N A H R A F F on social media. My LinkedIn was recently hacked.

27:48
Caitlin Bricker
Oh no. This is the first time I've heard of somebody's LinkedIn getting hacked.

27:53
Suzannah Raff
On Friday I got an email saying that somebody logged in if it's not you. And so I went to my LinkedIn account and somebody had completely deleted everything about me. So hopefully my Suzannah Raff LinkedIn will be restored soon. We've reached out to LinkedIn and notified them it could take a couple of days. Hopefully everything will get restored because you know Whole Foods has been tagging Sun LinkedIn just announcing this big launch. So yes, unfortunately you can't yet find me on LinkedIn, even though I would love for you to. But reach out to me on social media or through our website cleoandcoco.com and Cleo and Coco Natural Perfect.

28:31
Caitlin Bricker
Suzannah, thank you so much for your time. It's been great getting to know you and learning more about your brand and your philosophies. I'm super excited for the rest of our community to learn more about you. Thank you again.

28:42
Suzannah Raff
Thank you so much. Thank you for all that you do Startup cpg and thank you for having me on your podcast.

28:49
Caitlin Bricker
Our pleasure. See you later. All right everyone, thank you so much for listening. If you if you enjoyed this episode, do us a solid and leave us a five star review on ratethispodcast.com startupcpg I'm Caitlin Bricker, the host of the Founder Feature Series and editor at Startup CPG. Feel free to find me on LinkedIn or reach out to me on Slack and get on my radar. I'm always keeping my eyes peeled for new and emerging brands to spotlight. If you're a potential sponsor who would like to appear on the podcast, please email partnerships@startup cpg.com and finally, as a reminder for anyone listening, if you haven't already, we would love for you to join our free CPG community on Slack. You can sign up via our website@startupcpg.com see you around.