The Startup CPG Podcast

Zoe Levin
There's so many ways that we can better integrate these types of products into our lives. And where we see the future of innovation for our packaging developments is very much looking at consumer pain points. Where consumers wish there was more convenience or more fluidity into where these products fit into their lives. Because when you need a tissue. Or when you need a paper towel, like you really need a paper towel, let's say. And sometimes it's like cat vomit, sometimes it's like, you know, a snotty nose, sometimes it's like, oh gosh, ketchup sprayed out of that thing. But you would need something now. It's not like, oh, you want to wait for us? Has to do with immediacy, convenience, travelability, storage, all of those factors.

00:57
Grace Kennedy
Hello everyone and welcome back to the Startup CPG podcast. This is Grace and I'm here with another founder feature. Today I'm talking to Zoe Levine, the self dubbed toilet paper queen and founder of Bim Bamboo, a tree free paper company that makes wiping away deforestation fun. With over 16 years of experience in the CPG industry, Zoe offers a treasure trove of valuable insights in this episode including how to innovate around form factors, when to take on investment, and why it's so important to identify the message that will make consumers actually care. I hope you enjoy this episode and as always, let me know what you think. Hello everyone and welcome back to the Startup CPG podcast. This is Grace and today I am so excited to be joined by Zoe, the founder of Bim Bamboo. Welcome to the show, Zoe.

01:55
Zoe Levin
Thanks Grace. I'm so excited to be here.

01:57
Grace Kennedy
Yes, we're so excited to have you. And I will say I'm personally a fan of Bim Bamboo, but I'll let you explain who Bim Bamboo is first. So introduce yourself and your brand to our listeners.

02:09
Zoe Levin
I am Zoe Levine, the toilet paper Queen, the CEO and founder of Bim Bamboo. Bim Bamboo is a tree free paper company. So we take the fastest growing grasses on earth like bamboo, and transform them into sustainable and soft tissue products like toilet paper towels, facial tissue and wet wipes. You can find our brand across about 2,000 stores nationwide, including Whole Foods Market and Target. And we do this really to support a mission of wiping away deforestation, which I'm sure we will touch on later. And I have all kinds of fun, not so fun facts actually about the paper industry and its impact on the climate, but that's a little bit about who we are and who I am and what we do.

02:57
Grace Kennedy
Yes, I love It. And I have tried Bim Bamboo myself, which, you know, as you said, it's like a toilet paper brand. So it's kind of funny to be like, yeah, I love this toilet paper, but I do. And I have gone back to Whole Foods to buy Bim Bamboo. And the last time I went, it was sold out. And I was like, no, what am I gonna do? There's no Bim Bamboo. And I also, for those who are listening, you can go to YouTube to see or just go to their website, but Zoe's sitting in front of their very cute packaging, which is also so fun to have fun packaging toilet paper, because why not? Yeah, I'd love to hear a little bit about why you decided to create Bim Bamboo and what brought you to this product and this brand.

03:39
Zoe Levin
I am a second generation tree free paper entrepreneur. So my father actually started the first tree free paper company in America using byproducts of the cereal industries, primarily wheat straw, to make pulped fiber forms. Like, think of like chipotle bowls or egg carton forms, those like molded fiber forms. And I was very inspired by what he did. I came from a little different background in the ad world. I've been in CPG now in many different roles for about. I think I'm going on my, like, 16th year, which is crazy to say out loud, And I wanted to do something very similar, but with a little bit of a different flavor, a little bit of a twist on that. I found that food service was just not my jam.

04:29
Zoe Levin
And I also wanted to address an even bigger pain point for both the climate and, like, the people on this planet. And I knew tissue was a great opportunity to do that. So Bim Bamboo was born very much out of passion, but also I had a deeper understanding of this industry in this category and also the problems that existed within it because I had proximity to it. I mean, full disclosure here. The company that my father started, like, imploded. It did not go well. There was a lot to be learned about how to not build a tree free paper company that I got to observe and that our family was intertwined in.

05:10
Zoe Levin
So many founders on this podcast probably understand this, like, weird venn diagram that exists for founders when it comes to your personal finances, your business finances, and that weird little gray area in the middle. And that's where I had that, I guess, exposure or risk profile as a family. We got burned from that pretty bad. And I knew I still was very passionate, but I thought I could do it better. So Bim Bamboo is a bit of A Phoenix story, if you will.

05:38
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, I love it. I'm curious, you said you sort of knew what some of the problems were within this tree free paper industry in the space and I'm curious what some of those problems were. You identified that you wanted to do differently with BIM Bamboo and bring to this category.

05:56
Zoe Levin
This hints at the biggest, most bodacious vision I have for Bin Bamboo. We're currently a brand, we sell products in market made by a co packer. Every single one of my competitors in this space and most major paper makers, actually all the major paper makers in America operate this way to most like maybe they've brought certain parts of their supply chain. But where we'd love to explore is in what does truly investing in and the development of a tree free supply chain that's domesticated look like? Because this doesn't exist yet. It's a fast growing category. Sustainable paper as a bath tissue alone is up 55% year over year. And this category as a whole, it's like a $47 billion household paper industry and it's growing at a 2% CAGR.

06:46
Zoe Levin
So if you were to like double down on what's driving growth, it really isn't sustainability. But the supply chain development domestically doesn't really have footing yet. And that's where I think there's a major opportunity in what my father really like tried to explore like before the market was really ready for it frankly. So when it comes to the big bodacious vision, it's in figuring out how to do what we do, make what we make closer to home so that we can be more nimble and also be the tree free titans of this industry. Paper is incredibly ubiquitous. It's everywhere. It's in our packaging, it's in the hand towels we use, it's in menstrual care products and diapers. It's everywhere. And it's something we use every day, multiple times a day.

07:34
Zoe Levin
And there's been very little innovation and disruption in the category, which poses a great opportunity.

07:41
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, a perfect opportunity. I'm curious, you're saying you know all these places paper is used, how did you decide to do bath tissue as your sort of first product, if you will? Like what was your strategy there, if there was one? Maybe you just really were interested in bath tissue.

07:56
Zoe Levin
Grace, I'm here for the puns. I just want to have a good time and there's a lot of really crappy jokes I can make consistently and constantly that cheer me and everyone else. No, there's also a business case for this tissue. Like, when I was walking down the paper aisle, I was like, oh, my goodness, all I see is a forest wrapped in plastic. There were other categories that were getting faster adoption of more sustainable alternatives, yet the paper category remained the same. And I was like, this is so boring. There's, like, no color. Or if there is, there's, like, a giant creepy bear on the package that's, like, dancing their butt off at us in commercials. And it seemed like, wow, out of everything here, one. There's not, like, a gender factor. It's universal.

08:46
Zoe Levin
And that was really important that we wanted to go for that biggest audience possible for us. And there weren't sizes, which is also important. You know, like, I mentioned this before, but with nearly 16 years in CPG now, I've been all over the board from, like, fish companies to Sunkist and working with them. But, like, I really wanted something that had no shelf life, like, no expiration date. You could just stay forever. I didn't want to manage shelf life. And I also wanted something that didn't have sizes, because when you start to get in, like, menstrual care, diapers, stuff like that, you're inventorying sizes. And that was something I didn't want to have to manage.

09:23
Zoe Levin
But also, the customer lifespan was something I took into account as well, where were just looking for, okay, if there's an opportunity for innovation in, let's say, paper or let's say disposable hygiene products, if you will, or, like, personal care, what is that biggest pot possible, and where can we really innovate? Whether that's just the substrate itself, the packaging design, which is another area that we really cut our teeth. And also form factors, which I'm happy to speak to later. And, like, how we take something so predictable, like a toilet paper roll or facial tissue, and bring new innovation through the physical form that product takes to be a little bit more convenient and fit in someone's life.

10:09
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, I do love the way you guys package the toilet paper in the box with the little handle. I think it's so cute and convenient, and I literally do carry it with a little handle out of the store. So I love that. But I would love to hear maybe now a little bit about those form factors. And, I mean, I just said one probably, but I'd love to hear a little bit about how you are approaching that innovation for something, like you said, that's so predictable in our minds of, like, that's what toilet paper is, or this is how that comes.

10:35
Zoe Levin
I think we can look through a couple different lenses. I'll speak to the handle right away. So normally toilet paper is packaged as like most of us are purchasing it in gigantic poly bags that are heat sealed and if you were to open that, sometimes you'll even find like smaller packs inside of that also wrapped in plastic. And those roles are super puffy. So you're dealing with like these jet puffed paper wraps, super bulky, really high cube shipping across the country. And they're things that we need and buy like literally every day. Like this is a high replenishment category and that means not just for the merchant or for the retailer or for the distributor, but also for us as consumers who are like oh my gosh, where am I going to store? It takes up a lot of space.

11:27
Zoe Levin
How am I gonna get it to my house? The most like innovation we've seen is like when Target and 3M debute these little like sticker handles on large pack sizes. So at Target they I don't know if they do this anymore but they had these like little stickers that is like a sticker on each end of long piece of plastic and they would apply it to a large bulky pack to give you a handle to carry that thing. You're like clearly not gonna bag like a 24 pack of TV. No, like it's not possible. So like before I had really got into like launching Bamboo I was taking public transportation quite a bit and I had lived in New York previously and was just like this is absolutely crazy.

12:07
Zoe Levin
Like when we talk about these bulky products that we buy like let's say a beverage like your Lacroix or your. I'm trying to think of like let's say Huxley. I love Huxley. They're like another startup CPG member. They just released their bulk packaging for like a multi pack. They do amazing like super fruit energy drinks. And I bet if you looked at their new packaging they'd have this perfect little perf that you can pop your hand into and carry easily when you're in transit because it's hard to carry a big bulky box. But we don't see that with toilet paper until now. So that's really where were focusing for that was like how do we make this design work cohesively with the consumer and address those pain points upfront, whether that's storage for the product, whether that's carryability or integration into your life.

13:03
Zoe Levin
Another great example of where we're innovating with form factors are our tubular tissues. So these are cup holder friendly and Like, I know the audience cannot see these, right? Like, lovely listeners. But this is a new innovation that came to tissue that we helped innovate on, which is a cylindrical tube that holds facial tissue. Why a cylinder? For two reasons. One, it's smaller format. So if you want to put this, like, on a small bedside table, or let's say, like, in my home, I have a kid. So, like, I literally have these in every room, I put them on, like, the windowsill. It can actually fit there.

13:38
Grace Kennedy
It's that small.

13:39
Zoe Levin
It's about 2 inches in diameter. And what is great about them is they also fit in cup holders. So the car cup holder, the stroller, the diaper bag, the car seat, these are things that can go with us where messes go, because they are literally everywhere, Whether that's spilling coffee or a little bit of applesauce, which happens all the time in my life, or just, like, a runny nose. There's so many ways that we can better integrate these types of products into our lives. And where we see the future of innovation for our packaging developments is very much looking at consumer pain points where consumers wish there was more convenience or more fluidity into where these products fit into their lives. Because when you need a tissue. Or when you need a paper towel, like, you really need a paper towel, let's say.

14:29
Zoe Levin
And sometimes it's like cat vomit, sometimes it's like a snotty nose, Sometimes it's like, oh, gosh, ketchup sprayed out of that thing. But you would need something now. It's not like you want to wait. So a lot of it for us has to do with immediacy, convenience, travelability, storage, all of those factors.

14:48
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, I love it. It makes so much sense to me. And it's one of those things I think that you don't think about till you have it. Like, when I first realized it had a little. The toilet paper had a little handle on it, I was like, oh, man, this is brilliant. But I've never thought of this before. I've just been like, carrying bulky things of toilet paper and being annoyed or they, like, don't fit in the bag or whatever. So I love that you really thought about all the different ways that you could innovate in this category that, like you said, people kind of are used to. They're used to.

15:15
Grace Kennedy
I'm curious how you, when you were first starting out and getting Bim Bamboo, like, into retailers or just in front of customers, how did you kind of pitch Bim Bamboo to retailers in that it was innovating in this new category. And what was some other response you had?

15:32
Zoe Levin
I did it all wrong. I started Bimbambu with a focus on vulva health. So, like, I mean, I totally was like, out of left field. Like, this is totally not the message for retail. I initially began with a Kickstarter campaign. And the Kickstarter campaign was like, this is the first toilet paper made for vulvas. Because we use this more than women are using toilet paper like every day, multiple times a day. And we also are being exposed to a ton of toxic chemicals and likely have experienced issues with UTIs or yeast infections or general irritation. And no one's talking about this. Everyone's telling you, let's say, like, have you looked at like your sugar intake and Candida? Are you wearing cotton underwear? What soaps are you using? Like, all of that, but no one's talking about toilet paper. And it drove me crazy.

16:28
Zoe Levin
So I initially started this company, like for two factors. One was of course, the sustainability, but it had to do with also the actual fiber processing and how were processing the tree fibers and the issues that came along with that for women's health. And that was like, really where I started cutting my teeth and really like getting down to a super niche audience. So I developed this hypoallergenic formula using bamboo. Bamboo is the perfect material and substrate for this because it has antimicrobial qualities, has really long fiber forms, so it doesn't leave dust or as I like to say, clitty litter behind. And I really narrowed down that audience. And then I was like, oh my gosh, this is totally not going to be something I can scale and commercialize and grow with this level of niche audience.

17:20
Zoe Levin
And we also found that our users, like our consumers, loved the sustainability factors. We have these, like, I like to say, like a niche audience that's like die hard. They travel with bimamboo in their purse across the world. On every trip they take, they are traveling with a roll of BIM bamboo. They exclusively use it. They're highly loyal. And we also have people who are like, I love that you have plastic free packaging. I love that you have clean formulas that I can trust for me and my family and it's better for the planet and ultimately the people on it. So we took that scope. Like my original vision, which was very much fueled by sustainability, but how do we get people to care and make a choice was focusing in on the health story.

18:05
Zoe Levin
And what we found is as we scaled into retail, that is not a story we can tell on the shelf. It is not something people want to learn about when they buy. They go to their local store and are like, oh, my God, I have to buy toilet paper. What should I get? Like, the last thing we even want to think about is, one, deforestation. And two, is, like, health, especially health down under, which is a very, like, intimate care, is a very sensitive subject for most people that is rarely talked about. So I would say, like, I did it all wrong, and then, like, I pivoted and I figured it out based on consumer feedback.

18:38
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, that's so interesting. I mean, it's interesting because I think I am one of the customers who was like, well, I want to change my toilet paper. Because, you know, there's all the, like, pfas and things like that. And so that's what drew me to purchasing something like Bim Bamboo over a traditional toilet paper. But it makes sense to me that's not what everybody is thinking about or what everybody really wants to be thinking about. Like you said, once you pivoted your messaging to focus more on the sustainability element of Bim Bamboo, how did you approach, like, expanding and scaling into retail and beyond?

19:12
Zoe Levin
A lot of that had to do with the hierarchy of messaging because, like, what you bring up, Grace, is, like, so on point, which is. And I'm sure so many founders feel this way, if you ask any founder about, like, tell me about all the features and benefits of your product and better, need to probably list off a bunch of different things. And it's our job. If we're excellent marketers, if we're excellent at, you know, positioning our brand to scale with the largest audience possible, it's our job to figure out how to prioritize those features and benefits and what channel they belong in. So a good way to think about this, like, when I sat down and did this, which is an exercise any founder can do, you sit down, you create that laundry list, and then you have little buckets for channels, right?

19:58
Zoe Levin
So, like, you create a bucket for E. Com, like a digital story, so you can think of these, like, storytelling platforms. Packaging is another. But there are different features and benefits and competitive advantages that we as founders need to figure out exactly where they belong and where to deliver the message to the right person at the right time. And so that's what we did, is we sat back and we said, okay, we have a big story to tell here. Between the sustainability factors, the fun and form factors, and also these health benefits, which, like, I'm glad that you're someone who cares about Exposure to endocrine disruptors like bpa, pfas, cancer causing like crazy chemicals, forever chemicals, formaldehyde, bleach, adhesives. These are all things used in typical paper products.

20:51
Zoe Levin
And what we did is we kind of created that hierarchy for the brand and our messaging by channel and then created our packaging design and our sales deck and really figured out what is that holistic way we can tell that story so that there are, if you will, Easter eggs to discover along the way. And this comes from, if you were to zoom out as a founder to ask the question, what's going to make someone care? Why do they care? How do you make someone care or notice you in three seconds, which is that, like, if you're lucky, you get the three seconds shell, right? The three second test, oh, what do I notice? And the other is, how do I make someone care once I've made them pick it up for once they've added it to their cart?

21:36
Zoe Levin
Let's say, what is it that's going to continue that journey? So we look at a lot of what we do and the scalability, right, and commercialization of an innovative pioneering category, which is tree free paper, and ask ourselves, what is the user journey that we're aiming for and how do we deliver that with the highest potency and focus on retention because so many folks focus on like distribution plays, right? Oh, we landed another 500 store chain. We've found that we get the most success when we're able to double down on our retention and look at like, if you will, LTV at the shelf, LTV with our consumers and our community and really nourish those people. Like, I mean, we have this group of people. It's a great example of this we call beta butt testers.

22:25
Zoe Levin
Beta butt testers are exactly what it sounds like they are. Beta testers that we run almost all of our product innovations through this lens to get that feedback. Because we're interested in addressing multiple consumer audiences and from different angles so that we can make sure that we have that user journey committed for scale. Because the Target shopper is different than the Walmart shopper and that's different than the Club shopper. And that's very different than, let's say the Whole Foods Market shopper and the E Comm shopper. That might be like vigorously googling you. Like, you know, they might be googling. Like, I mean, this is one of our top search terms. I love this. I think I have this screenshotted. But like, one of the drivers to our website was like, why does Toilet paper keep getting stuck in my vag.

23:17
Zoe Levin
And I was like, oh, my God, I'm here for you at 2am when you're googling this or like, does toilet paper cause UTIs? Right? You have to have these consumer journeys figured out in an omnichannel sense so that you can truly dovetail those opportunities into your audience growth. And that's how we're looking at this. So when it came to commercialization, I know this is like a roundabout way to get here, folks, but when it comes to the commercialization and scalability of a pioneering category like tree free paper, where we really were focusing in the initial stages were how do we get that shelf to really pop? So we've really made the biggest investments in our packaging and packaging development so that we knew, like, we could really be a game changer. When you walk down the aisle, it'd.

24:07
Grace Kennedy
Be like, oh, my God, that's cute.

24:08
Zoe Levin
What's that? I've never seen colorful toilet paper. What's that? That's like, the focus for us was just trying to get people to, like, notice us and touch it, just pick it up. And then that has worked really well for us because when you have that factor, you also have the social currency, if you will, for someone to, like, want to share. So, great stat for, like, Bin Bamboo, we get on average about 10 organic shoutouts a week of shoppers like our audience, who may not have even been following Bin Bamboo before, but they found us at one of our retailers and they took a photo of us and they posted it, which, oh, my God. Is that happening to Charmin? Heck no, it's not.

24:49
Zoe Levin
And that's like, a really good angle for us to think through as we are in these initial phases and looking at moving into retail is what are your goals? And for us, we wanted to be able to utilize our packaging as an organic currency that could help us bring awareness to Bimamboo as a brand and the ability to save trees with your butt. It's that simple. It's like, how do we create a fun experience that is also shareable? And I think we've been pretty successful with that.

25:25
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I said it earlier, but I love your guys's packaging and it really does stand out on the shelf of everything that is like just white plastic or the sort of other, like, sustainable ones are like brown and, you know, they're not very exciting and they're very crunchy and all that. I'm sure they're fine, but, you know, they remind me of, like, my Mom.

25:45
Zoe Levin
Yeah. And it's like the question of how do we make sustainability less beige? And also, I mean, another good thing that I could advise founders on is figure out like, what are those pain points in your category? For us, sustainable tissue sucks. Like recycled paper. It's kind of like a rebrand of sandpaper. Like most people aren't like, I love recycled paper. Like, when we think a nice toilet paper, we're thinking like quilted Northern Charmin. You're like this big fluffy, like really plush roll. And recycled paper's always been at the bottom of the barrel. So divorcing ourselves from like that world of sustainability to a certain degree. Right. Is all around making sustainability a lot less beige and living life more colorfully.

26:28
Grace Kennedy
I'm also curious about your E Com versus your retail presence, because I'm thinking about some people, like get a subscription of toilet paper, right. So they don't have to go get it every single week. And I'm curious if you found one channel versus the other. You've seen more success or just more consumers being drawn that way or how you sort of balance those two things with a product like Baftissue.

26:49
Zoe Levin
When you move into retail, it costs a crap ton of money. The volume of inventory that you have to hold, the amount of operational processes to support all of the distribution and the chargebacks and all of the things that go into. Moving into mass retail meant that we really had to choose a channel to bet on as a company rather early on. And we made that bet on wholesale. Because if you were to look at the market dynamics of toilet paper and where most people buy their toilet paper, they're buying it in stores. That's not to say like there aren't people who buy stuff online and subscribe and save to that. It's one of the faster growing segments is that E Com category for tissue products. But toilet paper is like security. It's like insurance.

27:44
Zoe Levin
When there's a pandemic, when there is a hurricane, when there are major disruptors to the market or the landscape, people run to the stores and they buy toilet paper. It's really volatile. It's similar to milk in that way. Like when you run out of milk, you're not like, oh, I better like set up another order for like this delivery service to drop by and like get me set up on more milk. You're like, I'm going to run to the store and get that milk. I don't want to run out.

28:09
Grace Kennedy
Right.

28:09
Zoe Levin
And toilet paper represents very similar, like, mindset for people. Like, because you don't want to be pun intended Sol and it's something you always want to have on hand and you never want to run out of. So we bet on wholesale. We said this will be our priority. And it wasn't until literally like Q4 of 2024 that we actually spent a dime on ads, like paid ads for our website. And that was very strategic. We did a ton of work to grow organically through first party tools like email, SMS and invested, you know, in having a good website that could do the job which is take people's money and ship them product. But it's not our number one priority at historically speaking where.

29:02
Zoe Levin
We do see a lot of opportunity though as an E comm because more people are interested in buying online and it's a way for us to continue to grow our community. That gives us deep insights and that's really how we viewed E comm holistically is this gives us a real opportunity to build in community with our consumers versus at shelf. Unless you're demoing, which I have done as a toilet paper. I have gone in and done demos which I'll talk about later and how the heck you do that. But like it's really hard. Like it's a non food item. It's not like a beauty item where you could be like oh try this tint on or something like that. Like it's a weird one to build experiential things off of. And it's also a weird one for us to look at.

29:49
Zoe Levin
Like how do you begin those conversations? We found that online. It's kind of like, I don't know, maybe when you go to like confessional at church, like it's an intimate sacred space. Someone is willing to be more vulnerable online than they are necessarily talking to you in a focus group when it comes to these types of intimate details of like what they want, what works, what doesn't. I'm in the business of TMI and we found that D to C is a great place for us to nourish that and help feed our overall strategy rather than it be the primary focus.

30:23
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me and I think it was making me think again of that the search you shared about people googling things and people do really type in, you know, really intimate things to Google. And then a friend comes over and they go to your Google and they see your search history and you're like oh God, delete.

30:39
Zoe Levin
Yeah, like that's not allowed. You don't get to learn my search History. Because the things I Google at like 2am, like, that is between me and like, it's like my new version of my diary, but it's a real thing. And that's where toilet paper is a wildly intimate category. We have a lot of users that have like, ibs, colitis, Crohn's, lots of problems down under, ecos, all kinds of things. And one of those things, like, when I'm at it, like, let's say Expo west, it's amazing the conversations that people are willing to have in public. Like, I'm always like, whoa. Like, I wish I had like a. Like a little, I don't know, like a light or something. I could like shine and be like, sos, tmi. Tmi. I'm ready to move on. Like, please next, please.

31:21
Zoe Levin
Like, I need a skip button for some of these because I'm like, whoa. I wasn't prepared for that one, but noted. Thank you.

31:27
Grace Kennedy
That's so funny. I can only imagine the stories you've heard. And I actually remember, I mean, again, speaking to you guys and your ability to kind of like, stand up. They remember your booth at Expo west last year, which so many people like, there's so many booths at Expo west, but I literally remember your eyes as like, big booth and you had the newspaper and you do a really great job, I think, of creating an experience even with a product, like you said, that is not inherently, like in the moment experiential because you do it in private. So I will say that, yeah, that's something that impresses me about your ability to do that with Bim Bamboo.

32:05
Zoe Levin
Thank you. It means so much because that's really what we're here to do is like, this is actually like. It stuck with me. But yesterday I heard the CEO of Limonada Media speak an event, and she said her brand's entire focus, their entire mission, is to make life suck less. And I feel like maybe bibnambooz is to make life just a little less shitty by celebrating those. Can those private spaces be come places of small little moments of joy?

32:33
Grace Kennedy
I love it. Another thing I wanted to return to that you brought up in the beginning was this Venn diagram of founder financing of like, your personal finances and your business finances and the gray area in the middle. And I wanted to know more about, like, obviously you saw your father do a business and have it not work out. How have you approached funding Bim Bamboo knowing and maybe having seen some of the pitfalls of former businesses that you either witnessed or were, you know, a.

33:02
Zoe Levin
Part of, I bootstrapped my weight to our first million. And once we hit that, I knew the funding model had to change to support the scale at which we had the opportunity to capture the market. That's when I shifted gears. I was really nervous around raising, I wouldn't say like I was personally nervous around raising money. That part wasn't nerve wracking. But I wasn't sure how bringing new partners into the business model would change how we operate. And I think that's a big question for most founders. Like the idea of, like, no. I talk to a lot of founders that are like, I'm thinking of raising, what should I do? And the answer is almost always don't if you don't have to. So how do you know if you have to? Is the real question. And that has to do with your Performa.

34:03
Zoe Levin
It has to do with your P and L and your balance sheet and your personal financial situation and how much exposure, how much liability, how much risk feels comfortable for you and your family. I add your family, because if you are in a legal partnership, there are factors that do involve them and it becomes a family business real fast for most of us. Where you're like, oh my gosh, like, you know, I've heard founders say this before, but my husband or my wife or my significant other is my lowest paid employee. And so much of our business decisions get wrapped up in that. Because in order to get an SBA loan, for example, you need to have some kind of asset that you can put on the line so the bank can leverage against it.

34:54
Zoe Levin
So that may be a house, it may be, you know, normally it's like a physical thing, right? It's whatever you got that you could leverage. And those are the things that you really have to figure out and get comfortable with. I would say, if ideally in community around understanding how you navigate those next steps. Because one thing is for sure, you will likely need some form of capital to support your growth. Unless you're operating at insane cash flow conversion cycles and you have incredible margins, which does exist. I'm not saying that doesn't exist, but you'll at least need probably debt. You'll need to look at inventory and how fast you're converting that, your customer base and forecasting for that scale and growth and really getting real about where do you really want to go?

35:47
Zoe Levin
Because as a founder, you might not be the one to take it there. Maybe you say, you know what, I want to get this thing to 5 million and then I'm going to like find a CEO or a, a president who can really rock it forward. Because I don't feel comfortable being that person. But those are real conversations I think founders need to reflect on is one, what am I comfortable with? What is my family comfortable with? And getting real that you're going to get a lot of no's too along the way that just because you think that you have a venture backable business model, that may not be true, especially in this market and these current conditions and that each one of those conversations there's something to learn from. Like they're very insightful.

36:30
Zoe Levin
Whether you're talking to a bank or to an investor or let's say a retailer, really trying to understand what are those gems that help you calibrate what financial tools and capital are the right fit for your business and the future that you see for your model?

36:47
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's great advice and I hope everybody listening is taking notes. You should, you should run a class or something. You're a good teacher. I'm like, oh yeah, that's smart. But as we're sort of coming close to the end, I'd love to hear a little bit about, you know, what the future for Bim Bamboo looks like. We've talked a lot about, you know, your development and how you created it and what it's been like over these last few years. But what is the Future? What does 2025 look like? What does beyond 2025 look like for Bim Bamboo?

37:19
Zoe Levin
I'm not sure how much I want to share publicly, but some of it's a top secret. We do have some new products that are first in category to deploy these new innovations that all have to do with softness and quality improvements that I'm really excited we'll be bringing them to Expo west and showcasing them there. And they are lined up for a national launch later in 2025 with a major retailer. So we're super duper psyched about that. We also are getting all of our ducks in a row for future opportunities in 2026 and beyond that have to do with putting the tree free industry in a very strong position for scale and growth and that Bin Bamboo is leading. So I can't speak to specifics right now because I'm like, we haven't made them public.

38:11
Zoe Levin
But I'm incredibly thrilled and honored to be able to continue to share this with the startup CPG community. And I found that doing things together is a heck of a lot less lonely. And I'm so delighted to be able to share my story and Bimboo with all of you today and I hope that I can be a resource in the future.

38:33
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, founder life can be so isolating and I think it's so important to have community and that's, you know, our whole shtick at the in the startup CPG community. But my last question that I also always love to ask is, how can our community support Bim Bamboo and learn more and follow along on your journey.

38:51
Zoe Levin
Oh my gosh, I love this question. Bimbambu is available online at bimambopavu.com or major retailers like Whole Foods Market and Target. Next time you're exploring restocking your bathroom, consider Bim Bamboo. Can I give like a discount code?

39:08
Grace Kennedy
Sure.

39:08
Zoe Levin
Okay. Use Startup CPG for 20% off your first purchase on my website.

39:13
Grace Kennedy
Amazing. Let's do it.

39:15
Zoe Levin
I was like, oh yeah, I'm a boss, right?

39:17
Grace Kennedy
Who put me in charge? Yeah, you can make your own discount codes.

39:21
Zoe Levin
I think the other thing is like, I love LinkedIn. I'm a total LinkedIn girly. It's absolutely changed my life. I have so many stories to tell about how LinkedIn has benefited both me and my business, which I can share for, like, another time for sure. Connect with me on LinkedIn because it's where I'm most active. I publish a lot of resources, hot takes, spicy stuff. I kind of am political and outspoken there and I love being able to learn about how I can help other people. So, like, that's a great place for me to stay in touch, generally speaking, outside of the startup CPG Slack community.

39:56
Grace Kennedy
Yes. Well, everybody should go buy Bim Bamboo and also connect with Zoe on LinkedIn. And yeah, can't wait to see where what Bimbabu does next. I guess there's some exciting things down the pipeline and we'll see what they are later this year. But congratulations on everything and it was such a treat to have you on the show, Zoe.

40:15
Zoe Levin
Let the good times enroll. Thanks, Grace.

40:21
Speaker 3
All right, everyone. Everyone, thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, it would help us out so much if you left a 5 star review on ratethispodcast.com startupcpg I am Grace Kennedy, the host of the Founder feature series. So feel free to add me on LinkedIn or reach out to me on Slack. I'm always on the hunt for new and exciting brands to feature. And if you're a potential sponsor who would like to appear on the podcast, please email partnershipstartupcpg.com and finally, as a reminder for anyone listening, if you haven't already. We would love for you to join our community on Slack. You can sign up via our website startupcpg.com.