The Startup CPG Podcast

Jaime Borteck
Sometimes I've heard founder just say, hey Jamie, I need your advice on something. We're trying to get investment and got into this one account which isn't measured by Nielsen or something like that, and buyer said great. And I'm like, no, you need some data, you need some proof in the pudding. So advice to all that is try to find those places and if your category product type can work in D2C, even Amazon ratings economics, and you're building something into the brand. I would go that route because investors I believe will look at those stats to say, hey, there's something here and I can't wait to see.

00:46
Jaime Borteck
Maybe you have to do one retail test, but it could be small and you might be in an early state you can't afford or don't have the team to do the national jump into retail so you can sector it that way. That's one area I'm kind of intrigued by a lot.

01:03
Hannah Dittman
Hey everyone, I'm Hannah Dittman, operations and finance host of the Startup CPG podcast. And today I'm joined by Jamie Bortek, a board level advisor to a portfolio of emerging CPG brands. Jamie brings over 20 years of Rockstar CPG leadership experience from iconic brands at Kraft like Ritz and Chips Ahoy to scaling high growth startups including Food Should Taste Good, Justin's and Grillo's Pickles, each culminating in successful acquisitions. He's operated at every stage from scrappy startup to national category leader. Today Jamie partners with Fighter brands as a board director and advisor, helping founders navigate growth strategy and leadership inflection points. In this episode we talk about the value advisors can bring and how the relationship and dynamic works, what makes a brand compelling to a board level operator and how founders should think about evaluating external partners for themselves.

01:54
Hannah Dittman
Key lessons from decades in CPG working alongside and in dozens of companies, market dynamics that are compelling and perspective on the building journey. Gear up for some awesome mentorship and inspiration. Enjoy. Hey everybody, welcome back to the Startup CPG podcast. This is Hannah and today I am thrilled to be here with Jamie Bortek today. Jamie, welcome to the show.

02:19
Jaime Borteck
Hey there. Good to see you here, Hannah. Thanks for having me.

02:22
Hannah Dittman
Yeah, we're so excited to have you here today. I'd love to dive into this conversation with a brief background and I know you've got a lot of interesting experiences under the belt and I think it would be a great way to kind of contextualize the rest of the conversation.

02:35
Jaime Borteck
Sounds good. Well, for starters, I think at a younger age I taking to like Consumer goods. I don't know how it came about, but I really got interested in products and new business was my path. At a point after graduating from Michigan, I was told this career path of brand management, you needed to get an mba. So I said, okay, let me give that a shot. I want to get some experience. I went through the ad agency route, got some packaged goods experience which confirmed that this is something I love. Went for my mba and then I never really went to Kraft Foods, which was actually the Bisco division of Kraft Foods, where it was a really like great culture, really good people, a lot of exciting categories and like world class training of craft.

03:21
Jaime Borteck
But I knew from the start I wasn't like a big company person. I was really just getting like the training ground and actually stay way longer than I thought just because I think like the rotations were really cool. I did big brand Chips Ahoy to then New Business Development and Health and Wellness. We came up with a hundred calorie packs from like concept all the way to year one in market. Won awards on that. So that was a lucky timing to be on that experience. Did a global rotation and then I worked on Back to Nature, which was losing some money. And were. It was kind of a turnaround assignment, but that was my foray into the natural industry. And then I went to my first Expo west back in 2006 and that's where the light bulb came on.

04:05
Jaime Borteck
I want to be on that side with all the, you know, really fun entrepreneurial, founder led businesses and just a matter of time of like right fit when. But I knew that was where I was going to go. And that became Food Should Taste Good, which was a really early startup founded by a great guy, Pete Lesko in his apartment. And we got $2 million from Sherbrooke Capital, build a management team and a team up and moved the family to Boston and it was like off to the races. That was, you know, a five year amazing run, three office moves that same team became, you know, I was a fifth employee. We became 55 employees and were acquired by General Mills. It was really lucky to have that experience. We worked really hard, great teammates, learned a ton.

04:50
Jaime Borteck
Obviously being vetted into the kind of startup world. And after we'd properly transitioned with General Mills, as they were moving the business out of Boston, my next journey became Justin's. Justin said, hey, you gotta come out to Boulder. We met, I knew some of those people and it was just a great young culture. Really helped professionalize and do a lot of things on that business. We Went through product recalls, went through almond. We went through a lot of madness, but survived through it. Had some great private equity. Inevitably that was bought by Hormel. So it worked out great for everybody. My next journey. Then became the president of Grillo's Pickles.

05:28
Jaime Borteck
At a very early stage, Sub1 million partnered with a great entrepreneurial founder, Travis Grillo, and then really helped kind of keep the authenticity of the brand and vibe, but professionalized bit by bit to become the national brand that it is today. You know, inevitably that bought out by Kings Hawaiian. So, you know, I feel lucky that as a part of a lot of great success. But obviously across Those, call it 13 years of startup life, it was madness, right? There was a lot of travel, a lot of sacrifices away from the family. And my wife was like, jamie, you promised me, like, you know, this madness would end. And I was like, you're right. I got to think of a way that I want to be in this industry, but at a different angle.

06:10
Jaime Borteck
And that whole time in all those businesses, I was always presenting to boards. Sometimes it was chaotic. The management team would come out of a meeting. So that was chaotic. Like this was dysfunctional. Why did that person say this? Why did this happen? And then a couple of instances where a really good board member who was like engaging and helpful. And I always look back and I said, you know what? One day I'm going to be the best board member. Like I really know what goes on in these operating businesses, how you work with people, how you become helpful, what investors need, what founders think, and just started to create a journey against that and wasn't sure if that would be a long term fit, but it really was.

06:47
Jaime Borteck
And so that was seven years ago and haven't looked back and cut to the scene, you know, just met some great founders, businesses that, you know, have taken me on to help them just through like friends and relationships and things like that of knowing people in the industry. And I just become a dedicated board member and advisor in multiple businesses. And so it's great to contribute back all the learnings you had and help people avoid mistakes, you know, stay really current with all the new things that are happening and be an active, positive, impactful advisor, board member in the industry.

07:21
Hannah Dittman
Such a stellar background and you really do have a green thumb for getting these businesses successful and growing them, that's for sure. Tons of amazing exits and great household names that you've been an integral part of. And really exciting that you're in this chapter now. Hopefully less night sweats and travel and a Little bit more of a lot of the fulfilling fun side maybe without all the panic attacks that operation and being in the weeds can create. I'd love to dig in a little bit more in the ways you are engaging with CPG companies and what that really looks like from a tactical perspective.

07:57
Jaime Borteck
Yeah, I mean pretty simple like JCB Growth is me, I'm just a one independent person that wants to add value in the industry and primarily that's in those board roles as that primary role and then some advising in an emerging brand with often the prospect that might grow and move let's say to a series a neat a board and I would be a great candidate for that board role. So that's the primary of JCB Growth and I am part of the angel group and do some angel investing but very small.

08:29
Jaime Borteck
It's a tertiary part of my time because of maybe my general management background with depth in more sales and marketing, I would say as a generalist I can participate in most of the needs of the businesses, whether that's you know, really into the sales strategy, into the brand, into innovation but also into operations and financial planning and fundraising and legal challenges and all that. You know, I like to at least have some set of knowledge but I also very vocal when I'm like I'm not an expert at this. You need a lawyer. And that's the services that I provide to brands and founders and operators that I help and team up with.

09:13
Hannah Dittman
Great context and super helpful and yeah, I think you've clearly been an amazing partner for founders and for companies whether that be early days hired or on the board or in various capacities. What should founders be thinking about when they're evaluating bringing a partner into their business, whether that be on the board or hiring or even an investor. What's the outside profile that founders should be thinking about when they're thinking about it's time to get help?

09:41
Jaime Borteck
Yeah. Well, your first question. I'm a believer that myself or anyone can just talk about why they're great or wild and I really think it's all about what the founders say and people should be your references in the work that you do that really speaks volume for how you help. And so I think that's how you'd know the answer of like why I'm good for these brands. But I'll say I would anticipate or maybe hope that they would feel that I'm a good listener, that I'm empathetic to understanding situations because I've been in it and maybe have that good radar of when to hold back, when you're welcome to want to like help a little bit more, when to stay back.

10:22
Jaime Borteck
And so I also think maybe one theme is not one size fits all both on like what's going on in your business or what specifically that founder, CEO operator needs from an advisor. So I don't think it's just like there's one answer.

10:40
Hannah Dittman
If you had to think of some questions that founders should be thinking about asking themselves or asking other people when they're evaluating bringing someone else into their business, what are some of the top questions that you think might be helpful for them to really anchor on and use as a guiding light?

10:55
Jaime Borteck
I would say like to any founder out there, think of your business challenges, think of your gaps or both you as an operator where you might be lighter and need more help or your style and where you might need someone in a certain capacity and ask those questions catered to your specific needs. Pretty simple. But maybe more specifically like let's say how well someone might know anyone who you're recruiting full time advisor, how well they may understand the life stages that you're in and you're going to be going in next couple of years, how well they understand your category and what might be some of the biggest needs that kind of knowledge could come through just through organic conversation and then reflect it back to those people.

11:42
Jaime Borteck
What do they expect as full time teammate advisor that their requirements are with the business to make sure that's a good fit for what you're looking for. So I think there's some simple ways to just ask that in a very casual conversation and usually you know both parties will feel that fit. You know this is great. We both enjoy working with each other, feel like we can that advisor could add value and it would be a fun experience together and also something that you're going to help them in the end because that's what you're looking for.

12:13
Hannah Dittman
Really helpful perspective. You know you're kind of alluding to some of the ways that you partner with companies now and a little bit of what the advisor role typically is like. But if you had to paint the picture of the ideal advisor company partnership, what would the day to day look like or what would that dynamic look like? Both in terms of how frequent you're engaging, what you're engaging on and the relationship in general.

12:39
Jaime Borteck
And once again I do think there's like individual catering to needs. But just to give you some generals like I I'm a believer that often a one one or if there's co founders or multiple teammates in a call. Some form of maybe weekly is a healthy, good pulse so that you're always checking in. But if it's that's every other week, that's totally fine. In some capacities, people just want it as a monthly check in. But I think more and more of my time just because I love to help out, I like being a part of the team. So much can change in these emerging brands in a month that you want to be on the pulse and active and helping wherever they need it. So often you get busy every week.

13:23
Jaime Borteck
So if you have a recurring one one could always say, you know what, we've got a conflict, let's move it. Or it's way too busy, I'm traveling. But if you have that set up, it forces you to kind of like, oh yeah, this happened. I can't believe since we talked last week, look at all this new stuff happen. Or this has been on my mind. In one example, one founder I'm on the board of and we get together weekly. That person really likes on Mondays because they're thinking a lot over the weekend and like they come in and they're like, I've been thinking about this and it's on my mind. Jamie, I need your help through that. And then it's like it kicks off the week in a really interesting way. Others are like, you know what, I'm just like swamped.

14:02
Jaime Borteck
And like I'm always, let's meet in the afternoon, end of the week or midweek. So it's catered to the individual, some common cadence of checking in and then depending on those needs, you know, and again the life stage and the what is there for full team aspect. So for example, very often there might be a business that there is a head of sales, head of marketing operations, stuff like that. And let's say in the case of a founder needs more advice of like, how am I? This is getting complex. Or I, you know, I need to think about this or Jamie, what do I need to be thinking about next? Those are those kinds of conversations. Other times it's like, Jamie, I don't even have a salesperson yet and can you help me find them?

14:47
Jaime Borteck
Or there's this big meeting coming up and can you help me guide? Can you look at this deck with me and be active in it? So I think once again the idea of being an advisor should be a helper and it should be catered to situationally what that company needs. And that's a good dialogue to be on the same page. And you describe like when you're prospecting, when you're talking in both ways. Starts with what do you need? Where would you want time? Where are your gaps? And then the advisor's like amazing, that's exactly what I do. That's a perfect fit. Or you know what, that's not really me. Good conversation to have up front versus like down the line, you know.

15:25
Hannah Dittman
Yes. I love all those tangible examples and I think sheds a lot of color on a lot of the type of projects or problems or kind of internal value that an advisor can provide. I think makes also a nice distinction between what a fractional support might provide to your company versus an advisor. You know, the things you're describing are very strategic, founder level, board level, conversations and work product and less like operational output that some fractional muscle might be helping you churn out. You know, it's a lot more of a mentorship and an oversight function or a thought partner versus someone who's going to kind of be truly project based, in and out on the team executing.

16:12
Jaime Borteck
I think so and sometimes depends. But sometimes you'll have, let's say fractional employees are maybe temp to perm. They're becoming your direct report and you need, they're going to have great thought leadership and help in it and should, but also are doing the task at hand of what you need sometimes, especially depending on the situation, let's just say in a case it's a founder and you're a solo entrepreneur, you know, that can be lonely at times. So as that advisor, like I feel in my background being a team sports person and being a coach like in my kids and stuff like that, I'm always going to that coaching mentoring role very quickly. So if that's. And it's not required, but it's sometimes that hits a critical point where this is like a stressful time or upsetting or something like that.

17:03
Jaime Borteck
And to be able to vet and talk confidentially to your advisor about this and kind of work through a program, it's kind of like someone by your side to help and I enjoy being that kind of help to them to solve problems.

17:15
Hannah Dittman
It's so true. I think in a really under discussed portion of that relationship and that founder journey too. It's like there's stressful things going on in your business. Obviously you wouldn't want to withhold from investors or employees, but you want to make sure you have your head wrapped around it and have your thoughts on strategy in place before you go scare everyone else with what's going on. Or give them some of the fears or feelings you might be feeling. There's also so much of life that's happening while you're running a business and so many other things going on. You know, you're a human at the end of the day, and having that safe space with someone you really trust, that you really trust their opinion and their guidance on can be such a game changer.

17:56
Hannah Dittman
And half the battle of being a founder sometimes is just managing your own internal system and your own thoughts and your own emotions and building that confidence in yourself that you're on the right path and that you're doing what you should be doing. I think it's really easy to question yourself, especially if something in the business isn't going exactly how you thought or up and to the right. That's the stressful thing for a founder and easy to accidentally fall in the trap of internalizing some of that and not keeping a broad enough perspective in those moments. For sure.

18:28
Jaime Borteck
Yeah, 100%. And like you said, I think it's a business. I think even, especially in our ecosystem, you know, of cpg, emerging brands, people are human and they're good people and there's a lot of work and stress behind it. So also having the joy and the friendships and the trust through it can be really helpful to get through that. So personally, you know, I am part of the job and I really enjoy as well is like I feel like I have personal relationships with founders. You know, as a board member advisor, you get to know people, you know, you spend a lot of time and you know, some things with them, personal and situational, that also help understand them in both spectrums and help guide what might be stylistically best for that founder as they're leading and growing as a leader.

19:17
Jaime Borteck
That's, I take a lot of joy in being a part of that for those people.

19:22
Hannah Dittman
Yeah, your passion for mentorship and empathy and being a strong support system definitely comes through in this conversation and probably why your career has led you to the path that it has today. I'd love to double click a little bit one more question to round out understanding advisor dynamic. I think a common question might be, you know, what's the life cycle of an advisorship if you do take an advisor on board? What company milestones does an advisor typically see and collaborate on and how long are they with the business? Is it just for a short period of time or maybe to like a fundraising goal or a retail entry? Obviously this is a big, ambiguous question that's going to vary by the Advisor you're working with and the company needs and all of that.

20:03
Hannah Dittman
But would love your perspective on helping people wrap their heads around what this could actually mean in practical terms for them.

20:10
Jaime Borteck
Yeah, I think for broad advisors in general. Well, let's start with me. I think I go into it and various people I work with that I was describing, typically it's at a point where maybe as that advisor, they haven't gone through a series A yet, but that is a prospect. And my hope and goal being someone who loves being part of teams is to grow and be that board member. And so this is a longer relationship and it's actually happened multiple times in that piece. So, you know, that can be till the point of exit. You know, so you could be with somebody and you can be consistent for make it up six years. At the same time, this word advisor can have different derivatives. And so you might have someone who's, let's say, for example, an operations advisor, very specific and functional.

21:05
Jaime Borteck
And maybe you needed to. You were a solo founder and you hadn't hired an ops yet and that person was good help to get you up to speed. But as things got more complex, you brought in ahead of operations and now maybe didn't need that advisor. So that could be like a transition state. There's no set time. I think it's very situational. But, you know, my hope would be both groups, like go into it with this could be a longer relationship and see them through the journey because then a richer support and you get to know their history. You know so much about the business that you can contribute moving forward. But, you know, my hope would be when I have ever started with somebody and we didn't know where it would go, there's no handcuffs.

21:49
Jaime Borteck
Like, I'm like, if I'm not doing my job, you ought to fire me. Like 30 days. I'm not here to like lock anybody up. But I also go in knowing, like, I think I'd like this and I think they're going to like me and this is going to be a relationship and I'm going to be an extension of their team.

22:04
Hannah Dittman
Really, really helpful. We talked a little bit earlier about how founders can think about evaluating partners. I'd love to get your perspective on how you're thinking about evaluating the companies that you engage with. You know, what are you looking for, what gets you excited about a brand or a company. And diligence might be too strong of a word, but, you know, trying to understand your diligence process and what the core pillars of what you're looking for that make you want to get engaged.

22:32
Jaime Borteck
Yeah. It's an interesting piece because I think there's like a lot in that I never write down, but it's all like coming into this like crazy chemistry of situations. But if I try to boil it down first, I just, you see the product, you see the brand, it could be the brand name, it could be the delivery of what it is. There's something that's like, wow, that's really interesting. And immediately my mind could say I could already understand the competitive landscape and this could be a winner. So that's like a step, you know, equally of that is now you start to meet founders, CEO and have you who may be looking for your help. You know, you just spend some time really in some like do I enjoy spending time with this person? Are they good people?

23:19
Jaime Borteck
And that's just broad of trust them got a good back behind their, you know, those are the elements and I would say there's like maybe a couple for me. Obviously I work with a lot of founders, both in like operating roles and now in lots of board roles. It's like 10 some, you know and I believe that I've chosen to work with some of the best because they're great people and they care and they're good leaders in some way or form. But they're not all the same. Right. You know, some you believe are just like, wow, amazing energy and proactive can do with some maybe proven background in it like this person's a winner. Right?

24:00
Jaime Borteck
And then there's some that's like, wow, not sure, maybe they are but like at least like you could look at it, they are brilliant in some way of what they're doing in the business and their craft, super EQ skills that like really have a touch on people. This person's going to be in front of a buyer or an investor and everybody's going to love this person. They're just great people. How could you not root for them and their story? And that person may not be the strongest in financials or the strongest in something at least like they have a little bit of self awareness that like yeah, I'm not this and I'm going to hire good people around us. So as long as you have one of those systems, you're like, okay, I think this collective team will win.

24:46
Jaime Borteck
And that starts to be part of the call it diligence of you know what, I want to spend time with this group and then other just like little scientific, I don't know, just Stupid stuff in my head, like, is there any performance data to understand, like the velocity? Because that really speaks to me, you know, coming from a data background, you know, Kraft Foods and how are the margins? How are the structure and the bones of the business to become that? Is it priced in a way that I believe it could scale into conventional and natural and omnichannel and E commerce? Like, where could it sell and maybe where along the lines is the goal for that founder and the need for me to help them to eventually be acquired? What does that look like? What are those options?

25:35
Jaime Borteck
And would this business fit really well there? I put all that like just in a little bit piece of my head and I say yes or I'm not really sure.

25:44
Hannah Dittman
Yeah, I mean, it's a lot of tangential mental process as. As an investor would have or tangential thought processes around evaluating a company. I think everyone is obviously looking for similar things when they're getting involved as an external party in a business, which is, do I believe this can be a big success? Do I believe in the people running this and do I want to be married and in bed with them? And then I think the additional layer you're really anchoring on too for yourself is can I add value here in a meaningful way? Which maybe is the bigger distinction between an investor whose biggest value and no, hate to investors, but biggest value typically comes in the form of capital. And your biggest value is coming in with your expertise and your thought partnership. So that makes a lot of sense.

26:32
Hannah Dittman
If possible, I'd love to pull this into a case study or maybe a more tangible example of. With a company you've either worked with before or that you're currently working with, of shining some light on some of the things you said in an example way of what really spoke to you about the brand and the company and what got you really excited within that specific example to get on board and work with them.

26:57
Jaime Borteck
You know, I'll just try to think of a couple of examples. I mean, I think in board roles, for example. You know, I just remember back to meeting Matt Weiss for Ryan Stacks and how he just had this just eloquent way of talking about his vision for snacking. And it just. It rung. And I could just tell he's a visionary. He's one of those guys that's going to be like, people are going to root for him. And I could just tell his vision for marketing in touch was. And I could see the packaging and I was like, all right, there's something here. Similarly, actual veggies and I met Haley and eventually Jason and I was like, oh my God, I love this name. And I just was like, there is something so strong about this brand.

27:40
Jaime Borteck
This can be iconic and wow, these co founders are so driven and smart and want to be successful. Like there's something here. I can go on and on. There's, you know, we can continue in the conversation, but there's plenty of stories like that I can just you see it. And again, like you said Anna, like that you can add value and it's a two way street. It's like they want your help, you think you can help and now you have a great prospect of a good growing relationship to be a, like a real part of their team.

28:13
Hannah Dittman
When you say things like the name really stuck out to you or the packaging really sung to you, things like that, what are the specific things going through your mind that made that feel true to you? Is it the colorway, the simplicity that it would grab people's eyes on the shelf? What are kind of like the deeper layer thoughts going on that make you feel compelled towards certain products or branding?

28:35
Jaime Borteck
Ooh, that's a hard one. I mean I think hopefully like I gave specifics in the rind in actual veggies part. These are just from some of, maybe more of my branding marketing background that I can think through a name like even real stupid of like Grillo's Pickles and how that kind of rings off your tongue and how that feels. Or Stone and Skillet, a business I'm involved in now. And just the backstory and the name, I'm just like, there is potential here because that is in many ways does start with a name. And if the business is in the goals of being sold one day and someone's acquiring the equity, mark is pretty big, right? They're buying a brand stage one. And you talked about the package design, that there's no like science to it.

29:24
Jaime Borteck
But you see it and you know, I will just say like it could be that it's so sharp and great from the get go that you're joining on something that you're like, oh my God, some of that work is so good now it's about putting on gas or wow, there's all this other stuff. But it could probably with a package refresh, this could be something and you see that and I don't deter from one or the other, but at least I could see, wow, can you imagine what this would be and what it could do and how it could be an iconic brand in the industry in so many households, you just have a feeling for it. It's hard to explain.

30:04
Hannah Dittman
Yeah, there's definitely an art and science to branding in these things. It reminds me of like a music exec listening to something new and being like, yeah, that's the sound I want. And I'm sure you've had such a broad base of examples, both in competitive markets and brands you've worked on specifically that have given you so much pattern recognition and that secret sauce of they've got a little bit of that magic that's going to work. Reflecting on your career and engagements, I'd love to pivot into some lessons you learned or compelling anecdotes that you think others can learn from. Maybe like if you had to tell founders or operators a couple of big pieces of advice, what would they be and why?

30:44
Jaime Borteck
Yeah, it's a great question. One that comes to mind is the build the house, the foundation. And I think I've learned through various times that, you know, there's a lot of work, let's call it between what is called the spectrum of finance and ops, that's in the forecasting, that's in the secured manufacturing and then that's in the financials and the cash flow planning tied to that forecast. And maybe more cases than not, I would say let's just throw 5 out of 10 businesses or founders in the early days may have someone who's just like got a real excitement for sales or marketing and maybe it's that's less of the passion point. But it really is such an important foundation and some people get it and that's their background. So it's not all one fits all.

31:37
Jaime Borteck
But I really learned that can really go awry if you don't carefully monitor that and you really don't put the depth into it. So you know, in one business I think we really didn't have the right foundation in the forecasting work that hit challenges in operations and back and forth or in one case very tricky in co packers and just how to manage some tricky waters like that stuff is not easy. And if you got to make sure if that's not your full passion, you have the right people to kind of manage that. And I talked about the financial part of the house like the cash flow planning.

32:16
Jaime Borteck
Usually the case in point is that often the businesses that have gone under and didn't make it more likely is they ran out of cash or they really never had the right margin structure to support the business and hence ran out of cash. So putting enough rigor to that foundation early, I think is would be my advice because once you really establish that and then you've got something you feel like can be amazing to the world, you're off to the races. If you don't, you can really get into tricky waters.

32:48
Hannah Dittman
Yeah, great perspective. And it's like the margins and the cash management are definitely not going to be the deal maker for you, but they certainly will be the deal breaker. And all the hard work on all the deal makers that you've got. Right. Kind of are all for naught when you have like a binary outcome of survival on the table that you're talking about. I think great perspective. I'd also like to ask you know, obviously you've probably worked through many challenges with founders and many obstacles. When have you seen a founder handle something that went wrong in a really good way? And what did you like about how they handled it or advice you would have for founders handling tough obstacles?

33:28
Jaime Borteck
Yeah, that's a great question. And it's cool to see when that does happen. I'm just going to think of one where I'm on the board and this particular founder, you know, was very straight up to the board saying, look, here's what happened. We had all this, we didn't do this right. We had wasted product. This is why you're seeing the cogs and the margins go down in this month. And that was the one time expense. And we've realized and we've learned from it and here's what we're doing in the future now to go there. And I was like, good on you. That was an awesome way to handle a mistake and totally admit to it. And the other example I can think of, sometimes I can get a peek at just the founder maybe in front of the team and how that goes.

34:17
Jaime Borteck
And I seen in one case a founder, you know, I think was just like there were things that they were getting angry at and then they came back and said to the team, like, you know what? That's on me. I'm real sorry. You know, they were just this faceless leader. There was human side to it, helping their teammates. I've also seen that in action and I think that's really good. Those are. There's probably several others that I'm just forgetting, but those are two that I can think of right off the bat.

34:42
Hannah Dittman
Yeah, two really strong, powerful ones, which is the humility and the accountability of owning mistakes and being okay, knowing that's going to happen in a business and righting the wrong as soon as Possible and being human and being an empathetic leader and understanding that everyone on your team is also a human and really believing in you and working hard for you and appreciating what people are bringing to the table. I think to your earlier point in the conversation of you just want to work with good people, I think those are some of the ways that you can typically see that in a founder come through for sure. I'd love to take the opportunity. Given that you've got a lot of insight on the market and are an expert in your sectors, for sure.

35:22
Hannah Dittman
Are there any market insights or shifts that you think are particularly interesting, exciting to you or might be relevant for founders fundraising or starting to try to build a brand right now?

35:33
Jaime Borteck
Yeah, I think I get exposed to different categories in different situations and I think in one sector I'm pretty intrigued by brands that have figured out and it's not for every brand, right, but brands that have figured out a way to almost like stay native in early days and build a pretty shockingly amazing DTC business. And I can't say for me it wasn't the case for food to taste good. You know, with Grillo's pickles as a refrigerated pickle, I was like we ain't touching that, right? But I've been around businesses that have and I'm, you know, through the years I've learned more and I'm been really open eyes to say wow, how great is that?

36:15
Jaime Borteck
And what I also really like about that is just the built in awareness of the advertising that's coming with great spend and growing and targeted and learnings that those businesses are getting to feed more awareness in the market than say the brands that just like constant retail and then never really have enough. A lot of times you never have enough true trial and awareness budget to like do damage. As an emerging brand you make do and you bootstrap. But the brands that had that like I really respect what they're building in the brand itself up front. So if you have that or you're thinking about creating a business that can do that, I think that's a really good space. You think of like Gruns in some of these businesses of the world.

37:01
Jaime Borteck
They've AG1 and like they have just really built empires strictly through a really strong D2C model. And they've gotten the CAC right, they've got average order, they've got all the dynamics to like continue. And by the way, if you're an early business and you can do that you have data, you have stats, you have reviews. Those are proof of performance for investors. Where sometimes I've heard, you know, a founder just say hey Jamie, I need your advice on something. We're trying to get investment and got into this one account which isn't measured by Nielsen or something like that, and buyer said great. And I'm like no, you need some data, you need some proof in the pudding.

37:42
Jaime Borteck
So advice to all that is try to find those places and if your category, product type can work in D2C, even Amazon ratings, economics and you're building something into the brand, I would go that route because investors I believe will look at those stats to say, hey, there's something here and I can't wait to see. Maybe you have to do one retail test, but it could be small and you might be in an early state and you can't afford or don't have the team to do the national jump into retail so you can sector it that way. That's one area I'm kind of intrigued by a lot.

38:19
Hannah Dittman
Yeah, I think super great point. And even retail buyers I think are leaning and looking more to that direction as they're pulling back some of the discovery and experiential depending on the category you're talking about. Food I think is still got a little bit more Runway than other categories. But you know, when categories soften or foot traffic's down or purchasings down, like it has been in beauty, personal care for instance, for a period of time, you know, they start to reorient how they're thinking about bringing new brands in and tightening the rope on that.

38:49
Hannah Dittman
And I think even you'll see Target in their accelerator program has been pounding that drum a little bit for a while where they don't want to be your first account anymore as much as they want you to have a vetted good traction under you and know you're going to be a success when you come into their doors because you know it's hard to rip brands and products off shelf and have a lot of turnover within each category too. As you know, startup CPG has the largest slack community in the industry with now over 35,000 members. I'd love to pull a question directly from our channel and have you answer it as a case study for any founders with a similar question. Today's question is very topical and timely for you.

39:28
Hannah Dittman
When should I think about bringing on advisors to my startup and how do I know it is the right time?

39:34
Jaime Borteck
You know, I think that's just a gut level for you individually of where you feel like you're spending your days and you're wondering and you're needing support and there might be times where like know another founder, you know a friend and you can ask a favor and get advice device. But maybe when you need like I need this and I need someone who's like accountable to answer some questions when things are going on, who's like really a part of me, you'll start to feel it. And that I think is the right time. It's not like a specific date, it's not a revenue number. I think it's catered to what you feel you need it. And like we talked about, you could always try something and it doesn't necessarily shouldn't have to be this long term commitment if it's not what you're looking for.

40:20
Jaime Borteck
Especially I would say if you don't have it and you're starting to really grow and you're getting to the point where you're going through a series A and you're going to have investors in board seats and things like that. I think a good idea to have that independent and someone with some operating experience to kind of help you. So that might be the timing for someone but more cases than not the advisorship can come way earlier. It's just gotta be the right fit for you based on your needs.

40:48
Hannah Dittman
Great answer and very helpful context for people to orient to. Jamie, I could spend the whole day talking to you. I feel like you are definitely a mentor and a coach. There's so many things I'd love to learn from your brain. I feel like you've got so much great experience for anyone that might want to get in touch and work with you. Any founders out there that might be feeling like they need an advisor, what's the best way for them to reach you? And second part of that question, do you have any advice for anyone interested in working in a similar capacity as an advisor out there in the CPG industry?

41:21
Jaime Borteck
Yes. To your first question. I would say maybe just LinkedIn. That's probably the best. Sometimes like email and stuff can be really tough to catch up on. So LinkedIn and I try to make do my best to respond and sometimes it might be, hey, call my cell, I'm driving this if you have a question. So LinkedIn would best and to other advisors out there or people looking to get into, I just think be you and think of where you want to be, where you add value and talk to people that you want to work with. I think passion will come through your impact will come through. If it's the right fit and if it's great and it's a mutual fit, awesome. If it's not, no big deal, right?

42:05
Jaime Borteck
But I would say just think more holistically of where you could perfectly fit in and meet those people. And you know, that could happen. You're just randomly at a party at Expo west and you just meet somebody or those things like that. You'll feel that out when the right time is.

42:20
Hannah Dittman
Well, thank you so much again for being here today and for sharing so much thought, leadership and lessons learned and wisdom. And it was a real treat to get a peek behind the curtain of your experience in the advisor seat. And I think a really awesome way for a lot of people to get inspired and learn and think through different ways they can get some true partnership in tackling challenges in their business. So thank you so much again, Jamie.

42:44
Jaime Borteck
Well, thank you. Great talking with you and thank SaurupCPG for everything you guys are doing in the industry. I think it's tremendous and it's really helping business. I love to see it.

42:54
Hannah Dittman
Thank you. Well friends, we've now arrived together at the end of another episode of the Startup CPG podcast, the top globally ranked podcast in cpg. And if you love this podcast, you'll love our Slack community even more. Here at Startup cpg, we're a community of brands and experts and you should join. Sign up@startupcpg.com you'll then get an invite to our online Slack community of over 35,000 All Star CPG members, hear about amazing events near you and all our special opportunities to get you in front of buyers, investors, brands and more. It's a free community. So what are you waiting for? I'll catch you on the next episode and I'll see you on the Slack.