The Startup CPG Podcast

00:09
Daniel Scharff
Welcome to the startup.

00:10
Daniel Scharff
CPG podcast. I'm your host Daniel Scharff. Today's episode, I had the pleasure of hosting Matt Levine from Chlorophyll Water, which is the first ever bottled water in the US. To receive Clean Label Project certification. I had a great discussion with Matt. About how did he come up with the idea for Chlorophyll Water to launching it being really scrappy, starting delivering product in New York on his bicycle to then getting in places like Aloe Yoga and then launching nationally with Sprouts and Whole Foods. We talk about his sales approach, how to be really proactive places like LinkedIn and Rangemead to dig up leads and become friends with buyers.

00:48
Daniel Scharff
And he also talks a lot about the importance of really bringing his full self and personality to the industry and his approach to business rather than doing things the way that people tell you they should be done. Really excited for all of you to learn alongside me and Matt. Enjoy the episode. All right. Welcome to the startup. CPG. Podcast. I'm your host Daniel Sharf, the founder of Startup CPG today's guest Matt Levine is a multi awarded entrepreneur with more than 50 recognitions, awards and accolades. He's known for his ventures in branding, hospitality and wellness. He's the founder of Chlorophyll Water. It's the first bottled water in the US.

01:29
Daniel Scharff
To pass the very strict Clean Label Project certification requirements in this innovative fusion of plant powered purified mountain spring water enhanced with the addition of chlorophyll, a key ingredient, and the distinct green pigment in plant life, which is recognized by the Green Business Bureau as good for the mind, the body and the planet. Chlorophyll Water is made from 100% recycled plastic with clean flake label technology. From Redefining Hospitality with ventures like Chalkpoint Kitchen, to his commitment to sustainability and local communities, matt's entrepreneurial spirit and dedication to wellness and sustainability have gotten him accolades and recognition on a global scale. I personally am really excited to welcome Matt to the show just because I feel like he is one of the best examples for people out there of how to take an idea and be really scrappy about it and absolutely blast into retail.

02:21
Daniel Scharff
So Matt, thank you very much for joining us. Welcome to the show. And let's just jump right in if you can tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, and why you decided to start Chlorophyll Water.

02:32
Matt Levine
Well, first of all, thank you for the intro. I could use that. I got to bring you on the road with me for all the category reviews and bring you to Expo East and west. Yeah. So chlorophyll I used to own restaurants in New York. My last restaurant was not plant based, but plant forward. Every dish had a superfood. And one day I decided to I was the type of person that every morning I needed a coffee, an iced coffee. It could be negative degrees know, walking to my restaurants and I needed that iced coffee. So I just decided, you know what? Let me find an alternative to coffee, an all natural alternative. And I decided my executive chef at the time was like, try liquid chlorophyll. So I started putting liquid chlorophyll to my morning water. I felt great.

03:16
Matt Levine
And the way I pronounce water. You probably hear I'm from New York and I'm from Brooklyn. Started putting chlorophyll to my morning water. Felt great. Did that for about a year. Started giving guests at the restaurant, still sparkling our water with chlorophyll. Got some press on it. And yeah, I was like, Wait, now why has no one created a shelf stable chlorophyll water? So I go to Chlorophyllwater.com. It was available chlorophyll on Instagram. And I'm like, okay, let me start a bottled water. Had no idea what I'm doing at the time. Still don't know what I'm doing, but having fun doing it. And then I just traveled across the country to find cold backing facilities. Finally found one that worked.

03:55
Matt Levine
The water quality source was great, and they could work on minimums, and really kind of helped me through this process when I really didn't know what I was doing. Yeah, started had my first production run and then just rode around Brooklyn on my bike with a backpack full of water, selling into yoga studios.

04:10
Daniel Scharff
That's amazing. So it's really fun for me to do panels with you just because I think you're such a good example to the community for how to get it right, especially on retail so quickly. Can we start with can you summarize what your distribution is like now? And then we'll get into the details of how you got all of that great distribution.

04:27
Matt Levine
Yeah, I don't think there's any right or wrong or way to launch a product. I'm just kind of doing it the way that I think is best. Every brand is so different, and every route to market is so different for me. Everyone told me how difficult this business is, and I was listening to sometimes when you launch a business, everyone will tell you how difficult it is. People will tell you if you're opening up a restaurant, people will tell you how difficult it is. If you're becoming a doctor, people will tell you all the years you got to go to school, becoming a lawyer, any business, especially being an entrepreneur. So sometimes people get in your head. So when I first launched Chlorophyll Water, I was like, you know what?

05:05
Matt Levine
I'm just going to go to yoga studios, because I was practicing a lot of yoga at the time. They just had one fridge. And I wasn't fighting for a lot of shelf space because everyone was in my ear telling me, you're going to fight for shelf space? You're going to fight for shelf space. It's an expensive game. So it was a mixture of being scared to go to retail right away, but also I realized that there was really no proper water for the yogis that didn't contain sugar, or just an all natural way to oxygenate and hydrate with essential vitamins and really just replenish what you need after yoga. So I basically started identified all the yoga studios launched there, launched with a lot of yoga events, and from there we ended up selling into Aloe Yoga, which we are nationwide with.

05:52
Matt Levine
Then the Erwans, the Whole Foods, Sprouts, Urban Outfitters, everything else came thereafter as we really built a strong foundation within the yoga community. Even partnering with the United Nations on International Yoga Day. Well, that's kind of how it came about, was building a strong foundation within the yoga community and then branching outwards thereafter.

06:13
Daniel Scharff
And remind me, how long have you been at this? When did you start trying to get your product into the yoga studios?

06:19
Matt Levine
I would say late 2019 was when we started selling into the yoga studios directly. I was literally delivering it myself. I have photos and I don't have a car in the city at this time. When you live in the city, it's rare that you have a car. So I'm ubering around, dropping stuff off on my bike, trying to drop stuff off. So, I mean, it was a grind, it still is, but I was trying to find a way just to get it into retail. I was so excited just to get it in store and go from there. But then 2020 is when we really launched with distributors and that's kind of obviously helped fulfill orders and really get into retail.

06:58
Daniel Scharff
Okay, so 2020 into distributors. And what were some of the major milestones then? So when did you get into Airwan? When did you get into whole food sprouts?

07:08
Matt Levine
Yeah, so the local program at Whole Foods I got into there know, through the Forager program. So Whole Foods has basically in different markets, they have local buyers that will support local brands. And that's how I got into Whole Foods originally through the local program into maybe I think it was one store, then two store, three store, four store, five store. So you get approved into regional accounts, local regional accounts, and then you have to sell into those stores. So that's kind of how I got into Whole Foods with Erwan. Shout out to Vito. Vito was awesome and super responsive. You would think a big brand like Erwan would be difficult to get a hold of. But Vito and Erwan is really supportive into bringing in new cool products. And they were super supportive from almost when we launched one of our first accounts.

07:59
Matt Levine
And we're still in there. So we've been fortunate that the accounts that we launched with in 2020, now in late 2023, we're still in there, we're still on the same merchandise, in the same location, same facings, which are really fortunate about. And then kind of how it launched originally was when I first got the product, I started sending it out to influencer friends of mine that have followings. Then they would post about it on social, and that's when a lot of retail stores saw it and press would write about it. And from there, utilizing RangeMe, utilizing LinkedIn, because I didn't know anyone in this industry. I didn't know what a bogo was, didn't know what a free fill was. I still act like I don't know what a bogo is. I still act like I don't know what a free fill is.

08:43
Matt Levine
So first launching it was exciting because it was all new to me. And it's just sales is sales, whether any business you're in, it's fun to get into retail and go from there.

08:56
Daniel Scharff
And how did you make the Aloe Yoga distribution happen? I mean, that's probably one that every single person listening to this podcast envies.

09:04
Matt Levine
Yeah, Aloe is an awesome brand. I mean, when I first launched Chlorophyll Water, there was some brands that Aloe, Urban Outfitters I kind of had like a vision of, all right, this is where I see the product, and this is where I see it sitting on shelf. Meanwhile, Aloe didn't have any refrigeration or drinks at the time. Urban Outfitters didn't have any with Aloe specifically. We launched out of New York just because were doing so many yoga events. And we shared a lot of the same influencers that the people that were buying Aloe or posting about Aloe Yoga was also drinking Chlorophyll Water at the time. There was a lot of cross promotion there. Shout out to Alejandro from Aloe Yoga. He took it into the Soho location.

09:46
Matt Levine
It sold really well there that we kind know grew from there, then every store that they know we're in, which is pretty cool. Super fortunate about that. And yeah, when it comes to kind of building a brand, you've got to have I don't have vision boards per se, but I have an idea, a manifestation in my mind of where I see the brand sitting on shelf. Those are the kind of who we targeted strategically. Urban Outfitters as well is another one. But it goes back to being scared when launching the brand that you didn't want to fight with shelf space. It's strategically kind of launching the product in smaller coffee shops, in yoga studios, in different gyms, where the shelf space is minimal and you're not fighting for the pay to play with a lot of the larger brands.

10:33
Matt Levine
So not that I was necessarily scared into it, but it felt like it was the right fit at the time. And yeah, and that's how we launched.

10:43
Daniel Scharff
And it does really well on shelf. Obviously, you're getting all of these retailer acceptances, but why does it do so.

10:50
Matt Levine
On shelf is my question.

10:51
Daniel Scharff
Because what is it that is so immediately grabbable to people? They just see it, and it just seems like it really resonates with consumers. And what do you think the secret is there because when you're in the yoga studio, how many of the people who are getting it even know what chlorophyll water is versus, oh, this looks like a healthy thing that probably I should be drinking. What is it about it that makes it so attractive to people immediately?

11:17
Matt Levine
Yeah, that's a great question. And by the way, this is my first podcast, my first interview. I haven't done one since we launched just because I didn't want chlorophyll water to be about the founder story or it needs to sell on its own. The founder. My story, where I come from, my history, my resume. I'm not there on the shelf whispering in the consumer's ear, buy me, buy me. So we really wanted to build a brand that stands by itself. When we first launched, I'm not going to lie, I was going into stores on my bicycle, selling it in, and it would sit in the corner, bottom corner, and they just were taking it in on a pity because they see me with my bike helmet and a backpack full of water. I was like, wow, this is going to be difficult.

12:00
Matt Levine
This is going to be hard. But then as chlorophyll became more and more popular, or plant based living became popular, stores started merchandising it in prime locations. So super grateful for that. But also we learned about chlorophyll in grade school. It's one of those keywords that we learn about in science class. We're not trying to introduce a new superfood. For me, I geek out on marine phytoplankton and all the algae. Launching a product with those superfoods might not sell well on the store yet, on shelves yet, because the consumer is not familiar with the keyword or the superfood. But chlorophyll we all learn about. So it triggers some sort of memory we have. We all know it's, or most people know it's the green pigment that implants it's kind of like I call it the blood of plants.

12:47
Matt Levine
And then the cool thing about chlorophyll is that every year there's a different trend. One year it'll be wheatgrass, matcha, sea moss, celery juice. But the common denominator every year is chlorophyll in those ingredients. So we've been fortunate that every year we kind of stay on the trend reports, because chlorophyll is the superfood that makes all those other ingredients, or why we have a green smoothie. Also, green is just health and wealth.

13:15
Daniel Scharff
Yeah, it's really interesting to hear. From my perspective, it's a simple brand. It's a very effective one. And I think it does sit by itself the way you dreamed that it would. Right? You see it on shelf. It's a clear bottle. You see the liquid. It's green. Yeah, it looks healthy and like something that wealthy people would be drinking, the way that you said. And then I also see you at trade shows and you have just the product very simply and maybe one very effective data slide just showing people all of the accolades and wins that you guys have gotten, which I think is a great approach. Can you just talk for a second about just being, I think, a scrappy founder overall? Because I see you as one of the scrappiest and best hustlers in the industry.

14:02
Daniel Scharff
I think mainly it was just kind of a team of one, I think, for a long time. So maybe can you talk about just how you have managed to be scrappy and grow the brand through sales or marketing or all trade shows, all of the different avenues?

14:16
Matt Levine
Yeah, I think my past business is when you're in the restaurant business, you're working on ten to 12% margins. So you have to be scrappy. And if you don't pay your rent, if you don't pay your employees, your chef, the cost of goods, you can't serve food. So I basically took that approach to the CBG business, where a lot of businesses, a lot of companies are growth at all costs. For me, you got to remain profitable. It's kind of all I've known for the past 20 plus years is to be scrappy and to maintain a down financial. You just want to remain profitable. So I think that in our business, from what I'm seeing and learning, a lot of CBG brands, it's that growth at all costs.

15:00
Matt Levine
It's that spend to grow where I'm just taking a different approach, and it's being scrappy, it's hustling, it's growing, but not growing too fast because you still want, yes, chlorophyll water. We've been fortunate, it's selling in stores, but there's so many markets that we still need to hit, and they might not be ready for chlorophyll water. And you brought up, you see us at trade shows, just a backdrop. And our water, we keep it simple. If it doesn't bring me a clear ROI, if I can't tangibly see the return on investment, I'm not going to spend money there. So trade shows are great for sampling. Like, I'm sampling my product, I'm selling my product. I'm not selling the hype around the brand. I want people to taste it, drink it, and give their feedback.

15:49
Matt Levine
So that's all the trade show is for me, is just having the product there to sample. One of our slogans is think clean, hydrate green. So just really clean, minimalistic mindful and intentional branding that keeps the product clean from the ingredients to the branding. And yeah, just finding alternative. We've kept the team lean because when I first launched again, I thought we needed sales reps across the country. I thought we needed PR team. And then as you grow in this business, particularly, you could only grow at the rate where your distribution and your warehouses know you could sell into great accounts. But if you don't have a DC there, which is a distribution center, then it doesn't make sense to have those sales reps in those regions.

16:33
Matt Levine
You know, I'm learning as I'm growing to just invest into markets that we have clear distribution routes that we have clear, whether it's through the large national distributors such as Unify and Kehi, or then the regional. Know, something that I've preached about a lot that's worked for myself is know, LinkedIn has been a super great resource. Know, blindly DM people, know, send them just a quick link on the product. I wake up every morning, it's the first thing I do is connect with about 25 to 50 new people on LinkedIn and copy and paste. I'm giving out my little secret there. Copy and paste. The same message. Just introducing myself, introducing the brand to retailers, to buyers, to publicists, to nutritionists, to writers, and then using just other resources like RangeMe has been super effective for us.

17:26
Matt Levine
Consistently in there, consistently submitting the brand and always updating it. And then another thing that's worked really well for us is just prior to launching, we launched in 2000. I consider it 2020 is when we launched. Really like late 2019 was when we had the product ready. But I started SEO in 2017. So I think a little word of advice is just invest into SEO even before you launch a product. So we had three years of SEO, which is search engine optimization, where were investing into certain keywords all Chlorophyll related that really helped put us on the map. So when we launched, we had a nice Google footprint.

18:03
Daniel Scharff
Interesting. And so you mentioned RangeMe, and I've heard that you're a Rangebee power user. What do you think the secret is to getting the most out of Rangebee?

18:12
Matt Levine
I think just having just clear graphics, I always say, teach, don't preach, help, don't sell. So my Rangewee profile is that I'm helping the retailer understand why they should buy Chlorophyll. So it has a lot of our data, has just clear information on the product, our sell through rate, our Nielsen's like a brand score, any returning customer rate that we have, our wholesale, our Fair as an independent wholesale retailer, our Fair data as well. So just having clear information on the RangeMe, so the retailer okay, so any product they bring in is going to be a risk. So if you could just mitigate that risk through data or through just a proven track record of sales, I think that's really helpful for the retailers because they've all got margins to hit.

18:59
Matt Levine
They've got their own, and their margins are less than ours, grocery and retail. So I come from the other side, being in the restaurant space, so I understand how little margins there are on that end and how they're really taking a risk on brands. And that shelf space is really limited. So you really want to show the retailer, okay, this is how we've sold in the past. This is also what we'll do for your brand. We do kind of digital demos where we'll send influencers to accounts and boost it to their zip code and like, a geofence. So we'll actually send in customers to that store location, theoretically, and hopefully. So I think it's just showing the retailer what we're doing.

19:38
Matt Levine
And that's what I spent about the first year and a half, two years, was just building relationships with retailers, showing them how having chlorophyll water in their store will do for them, how will support them. Not financially, because we're still bootstrapping it, but through press releases, through media alerts, through digital demos, through influencers, just really showing the retailers. Okay, we're here to help you as well.

20:02
Daniel Scharff
Yeah, that's really great to hear. And is that the main way you focus marketing spend, or do you have other big marketing initiatives that you focus on, or mainly more focused on specific retailers and geographies?

20:13
Matt Levine
Yeah, again, I've been naive with marketing spends. What is a marketing spend? I don't know what it is. No, but our spend is back to the retailers. Back to the retailers showing them that, okay, we're investing into your location as well. We're creating content for you guys. So that's yes, that's where we've spent. Just kind of an ROI. They take in the product and then we'll send influencers to grab content.

20:42
Daniel Scharff
Awesome. Obviously, with all the accounts that you're getting, you have to have good relationships with the distributors. What was the process like for you, getting set up with distributors? Was it easy to get in touch with them because you had accounts or like the rest of us, you had to try to build a relationship with them and convince them to take a chance on you? What was it like?

21:00
Matt Levine
Yeah, so there's UNFI and Kehi, which are the major they're the national distributors. So with our sales, through the regional program at Whole Foods, we had great sales there. That whole food that UNFI ended up picking us up. So that's how we got into UNFI. Then went nationwide with Sprouts. That's how we got into Kehi. And then as other retailers started signing up, we started opening up different DCs and then regional DSDs, regional distributors. It's kind of like one of those things, what comes first, the chicken or the egg? The distributors want anchor accounts. As a brand, you just want a distributor. So it's about, again, building relationships, showing them data, showing them, this is what we've done before. And the product just seems to sell. That's the main thing here.

21:46
Matt Levine
Once you get with the distributor, they'll give you the opportunity, or most of them will, because they make money. When you make money, it's a two way street. If the product sells, everyone's making money. The distributor, the retailer, the brand. So everything needs to click. So you got to bat three for three there. And yeah, you just get a product that sells. And we've just been fortunate that once we get on shelf, it sells. But getting onto shelf is the most difficult. So it's persistence. A lot of the larger retailers want to see that you've been around for a couple of years first, that you're in the right stores, or how we launched, where a lot of brands will just blanket a certain territory and really try to build up that territory and be everywhere in that region.

22:29
Matt Levine
What we did with chlorophyll water was I targeted top accounts in every major market and went that route. So that really helped know with our regional distributors and with UN and fine kehi to get into those distribution centers in Miami, the puravitas in the northeast, the giants in the southeast, the earth fairs in Texas, the central markets. So that's kind of how we blanketed how we got into distribution.

23:03
Daniel Scharff
Double click on RangeMe. Since Matt mentioned he's a power user of RangeMe, I wanted to mention you can sign up for rangeme's virtual platform on their website for a free subscription. You can also take advantage of a premium discount that startup CPG has with RangeMe, where you can get access to their premium service at a discount. It's $999 instead of their usual 1399. You also have the option of paying 1199, just $200 more, where you get three guaranteed face to face meetings with buyers via ECRM's, in person, or virtual sessions to check the offer out. Just google startup CPG and range me, and the offer will come up. What are the pros and cons of having launched with one SKU? And what are your plans for the future in terms of your portfolio?

23:51
Matt Levine
That's a great question. I mean, when I first launched again, everyone tells you need so many SKUs, you need SKUs or shelf space. But then to me, SKUs are also just monies investments. It's hard enough to launch one brand. Launching 23456 is pricey and it's difficult, and the chance for all them to hit your percentages are low. So my philosophy has always been jack of all trades, master of none. So just really just focus on that one skew. We've got a product that people like to taste, that we've got great velocity that we're just going to just ride with the one skew. We're launching a larger format, a one liter q, one of next year, but same flavor profile, same ingredient makeup, and essentially the same product, just larger.

24:38
Matt Levine
But yeah, I see the successful brands that have launched in the past, and they really focused one skew, one flavor. And then over time, when they get bigger and they're fighting for that shelf space and other players come in and try to imitate or replicate what they're doing, then yeah, then it's time to innovate, then it's time to expand. And I'm not saying we'll never grow with more SKUs, but right now we still need to kind of mess. We've got a large runway. We've penetrated less than 1% of the market, so we've got a lot of room to grow just with this one skew.

25:12
Daniel Scharff
And what led you to create the second skew was that demand from consumers or from retailers?

25:18
Matt Levine
It was advice, to be honest with you. I got to give Vito from Irwan another shout out. Vito recommended to me a one liter that sales of the one liter bottled waters are great. And then I started my due diligence with research. And consumers nowadays are asking for larger format beverages, larger format waters especially. So that's kind of just listening to your retailers. One thing in this business is I said earlier, you know, what you don't know, so just be a sponge, ask questions. This morning I woke up and after my LinkedIn emails, I emailed all of our larger accounts. Brian at Sprouts, darren at Bristol, I mean, you know, all the familiar. Kobe at Giant Zach at Earth Fair. And I just checked in, see how chlorophyll water was doing, and you get know, that's the main thing.

26:06
Matt Levine
Stay in contact with the retailers, stay in contact with the buyers. The consumers will ultimately dictate what they want. So just track, just continue to do your own due diligence. I had no idea I would be launching a one liter next year. I had no idea, to be honest with you, that I'd be selling water for a living. Things just gradually happen, and you got to be able to pivot. And I think being a smaller business is now the times to pivot, now the times to expand. When I say when you're a smaller brand, you could pivot quickly, and you could grow quickly, and you could add another format. You could add another skew. As you grow bigger, it's a lot more problematic and a lot more difficult and a lot more costly.

26:48
Daniel Scharff
Yeah, it makes sense. And out of curiosity, what's the different use case for the one liter versus smaller format that you have? Is it something people buy and kind of keep in the fridge more and they'll drink it over time, or are they just looking for or do they drink the whole thing in one sitting or throughout the day? How do people use a one liter differently?

27:06
Matt Levine
I think throughout the day, they'll bring it more to their yoga class. They'll bring it more to the gym. The 16.9 fluid ounce we have now is great. It's great for a meal, great on a go, great. The one liter, I think, will open up a whole nother consumer for us. So I think that you've got, especially with chlorophyll water, we sell the chlorophyll drops, chlorophyll water drops as well. So you've got the consumer that puts the drops in their water. Then you've got the consumer that's looking for just the quick, I want to try it, grab and go. And then you've got the one liter drinker that's looking to hydrate throughout the entire day. So neither, I don't think either three of those are the same consumer. I think they're all different consumers.

27:43
Daniel Scharff
So.

27:43
Matt Levine
Hopefully we'll attract a new crowd, a new audience. From that now we'll see how it goes. You never know.

27:49
Daniel Scharff
Yeah. How do you describe the taste of poor, full water to people who haven't had it before?

27:54
Matt Levine
I say it tastes from all of our blind tastings. We would go around whenever we first launched. We'd go around to all around brooklyn, Santa Monica, Venice Beach, New York, like Washington Square Park. And we'd do these tastings where we'd give them out and we would get a lot of cucumber water, spa water. So it's purified mountain spring water fortified with essential vitamins A, B, twelve C and D with a little organic lemon juice and natural sperm. It's crisp. It's very crisp water, very refreshing, with a little hint of lemon and a little hint of spearmint.

28:28
Daniel Scharff
Makes sense.

28:29
Matt Levine
All right.

28:30
Daniel Scharff
So I was reading about your packaging initiatives, also around sustainability. Can you talk a little bit about what you guys have accomplished and why it was so important to you?

28:39
Matt Levine
Yeah, for me, I think it's always important to be progressive in packaging. It's always important to the consumer wants to be sustainable. The consumer and me, as an entrepreneur, I want to create a packaging that's sustainable, environmental friendly, or at least we're taking the necessary steps to do so. When we first launched, our bottles were made were landfill biodegradable, meaning we injected the biomold with an organic bioresin that made it biodegrade in six years or less in a landfill environment. It was great for our launch, but as we grew, because the bottles would deform and they would reshape because it was so thin. So now we launched our bottles made from 100% recycled plastic with clean flake label technology. So the clean flake label means that it comes off in the recycling process.

29:31
Matt Levine
So a lot of labels actually stick to the bottles and they don't come off in the recycling process, making it hard to actually recycle into small, clear flakes that could be repurposed into other plastic. So, yeah, we're always going to evolve. I would love to do glass would be a great option, but glass, we sell so many gyms and yoga studios that glass is problematic within the yoga studios, in fitness centers, just because if it breaks, we're not perfect, but we're evolving. So if there's anyone listening out there that has great packaging alternatives, I'm always listening. Shoot me a note. DM us on Instagram, write me on LinkedIn. So one thing I say is just always evolve and show the consumer that you're trying to evolve.

30:17
Daniel Scharff
Awesome. Yeah. Okay, great. So on your entrepreneurial journey, I'm sure that there have been a bunch of highs and lows, any that you could mention of just the highest highs, great moments for you, and then any kind of lowest low, like really challenging stuff that you had to get through.

30:33
Matt Levine
Yeah, I mean, anytime I see someone drinking chlorophyll water is a high. Anytime I see it in store, it's a high. I'll go into a store now on a road trip and I'm like, wow, this store is really cool. They should be carrying chlorophyll water. And then I go into the store and it's there. And that's like the ultimate that's a high. When you see someone tagging on Instagram, that's a high because this is your little baby. This is your baby. And I still get excited every time I see someone drinking it. Every time I see it on the shelf, that's always the high. And then I don't think that'll ever stop, and I don't want it to stop. And if it ever stops for me, that just means I need to hustle more and get it on more shelves.

31:13
Matt Levine
So I always get really excited when I see it in retail and see people drinking it. And then the lows. Obviously, COVID was difficult. COVID was navigating. COVID was difficult. And then dealing with copacking issues. You'll always have copacking issues when things are going great. I learned have backups. So always make sure you've got a backup copacker backup manufacturer for your labels, backup ingredient supplier. The lows are also problem solving and they're learning experience. And right now, because we're still growing, because we're still a baby, our lows are just problems that need to be resolved swiftly. I've always been a problem solver versus, okay, this really sucks dwelling on it, and this is a low. I'm like, okay, how do we resolve it? How do we problem solve it?

32:05
Matt Levine
And once I've done problem solving it, once I'm done finding a solution, okay, how did this happen? And Matt, you can't let this happen ever again.

32:12
Daniel Scharff
Yeah, that makes sense.

32:14
Matt Levine
I really agree.

32:15
Daniel Scharff
I think creative problem solving is one of the key traits for somebody who wants to work with physical product. Just for all of the heart in your chest kind of crawling up your throat, like, how could this possibly have happened? What are we going to do? Kind of moments. And then just I mean, I always found reaching out to my network also and seeing who had that problem before and just kind of getting really resourceful and creative to try to find answer. There usually is one.

32:40
Matt Levine
Yeah, just take a deep breath and just meditate and just always sometimes venting out, typing out the response via email. But don't send it. Just type it out, vent, close your computer, let it sit, go meditate, go do yoga, go for a run, then come back, reread it and just delete it. And then you vent it, you cut it out and just kind of go from there. Because here's the deal. You're always going to have problems. You're always going to have issues. What I'm going through right now and I'll share, I'm sure other people have gone through know, I sent product to Amazon, a lot of product, and then I didn't put the expiration in the coating. So when they got it, they put it aside and said it was expired. A thousand cases of chlorophyll water were, quote unquote, expired.

33:24
Matt Levine
So I'm like, oh, wow, this is going to be problematic. But fortunately, the expiration dates on the you know, dealing with Amazon is always a headache. Their automated responses, everything's AI now, so you really can't talk to anyone till you exhausted all AI resources. So that was a little problem I was dealing with yesterday and today. But it got resolved. So I guess the point is just take a deep breath. Everything always works out. Even when it doesn't, it still does.

33:52
Daniel Scharff
Somehow. I like that advice. I would add before meditating, I would usually panic first, then try to meditate. But I also really agree with not sending those hot emails and you know, when you're about to send one, just, okay, maybe don't hit send yet.

34:06
Matt Levine
Maybe I'll sleep on this one and.

34:08
Daniel Scharff
Try to send that tomorrow before I do something I'll regret.

34:11
Matt Levine
Yeah, I think we're taught as entrepreneurs that you have to wear you're wearing a lot of hats. You're wearing a lot of hats. You got to put on a lot of fires. The fires aren't fires. Let the fire it's not burning. You just let it sit for a moment, let it decompress on it. Think about it, and how am I going to resolve this? How am I going to problem solve this? And within our business, there's a lot of problems. You're going to have problems. Nothing is perfect. So it's just finding out a way. I think you brought up a good point, like talking to mentors, talking to advisors, talking to your community. I mean, we became friends just through our own brands. That's how I kind of I don't think of chlorophyll water as competition to any other brand or co founder.

34:57
Matt Levine
When I'm out there selling chlorophyll water, people aren't going to buy $1,000 or $500 worth of chlorophyll water. So I'm actually selling other people's brands. Whatever my distributor has at the time, I'm selling other brands as well. So they hit their minimums. I guess it's just being collaborative, bouncing ideas off of each other, setting up zooms with other co founders, hearing what they've went through, especially dealing with the UNFI Kees of the world if you're not on top of it, and if you haven't heard other founders stories, how they or working with other DSDs. We've collaborated on a bunch of stuff. So I definitely appreciate all the conversations we've had. And it's building community and that's kind of don't be scared to ask questions and don't be scared to befriend other co founders. We're not in competition. Realistically, none of us are in competition.

35:50
Matt Levine
We're growing. We've all got a dream, and we're all kind of have the same roadmap to success.

35:57
Daniel Scharff
I really like the way you say that and about being collaborative. I've owed so much of my success to being friends with other founders and setting aside time to network and ask each other for help. What are your goals? Oh, I can help you with that. Which it just means everything because, yeah, we all are working, I think, on similar paths toward the same goals. And I also just going back to something you said earlier about checking in with the buyers. I really like that candid approach that you take toward that. I think it is really important to be able to email a buyer you're on shelf, ask them, how are we doing? I think it can be very scary if you're not sure how you're doing and you don't necessarily want to get on their radar. Like, oh, yeah, how are you doing?

36:34
Daniel Scharff
Oh, not that good, actually. We need to do something. But I mean, at the end of the day, I think it's sort of like a parent teacher conference, but your grade is going to come out at some point. At least maybe you can get on the same page about it and see if there's some kind of intervention or ask for their help, understand their expectations. Have you found those kind of check ins to be pretty helpful in the past?

36:52
Matt Levine
Oh, 100%, because the buyers and the retailers really do want you to they want you to do well. They brought in your product for a reason. So they wanted to sell and collaborating with them. It's helpful for me as well because, okay, yeah, maybe I need to do more marketing. Maybe I need to go visit, meet with the buyers, I mean, meet with the in store retailers or go do a staff training. So it's definitely really effective. You've got to hit things direct. You got to be direct in this business. You've got to know your numbers. You've got to know your sales. I think checking in has been maybe some of the retailers think I'm annoying by checking in, but I think it's really important and I think building those relationships and just saying, hey, I care. I want to see the product sell.

37:39
Matt Levine
What could I do more? Could I do demos? Could I more press releases, more media alerts? Could I plug you in to any other things that I'm doing as a brand? I think that has been really helpful. And then I want to say too, is that what startup CBG is doing for the community? When I first came in this, so it seemed like it was dominated by everyone that's been in this industry for so long. It seems like you've got to go here, you've got to hire this broker. There was like a book, there was a play by play book that every brand was doing. And when I saw that, I'm like, why is this just a playbook? Why is it the same?

38:17
Matt Levine
I always say and I used to tell my staff, and now I read a lot, but I used to say, don't read the book, write the book. I don't mean that literally. It's important to read. But if you're reading everyone else's profile and if you're reading everyone else's play by playbook, you'll never exceed the success that they had. And it's really hard to replicate success from a brand standpoint. You really have to create your own lane, create your own story. When I first came into this industry, I honestly thought I needed to hire this person, do this, hire this broker, this publicist, this law firm that handles all the CBG, hire this branding company. And as I started doing it, I was like, you know what, Matt? This is not you. This is not who you are.

38:59
Matt Levine
This is not how you've created your brands in the past. Treat this like you've done in the past. Don't form to the industry. Bring new creative ideas, bring new processes, new theories, new just creative way of thinking to an industry that has a play by playbook. So, startup, CBG, you guys are continuing to grow. And what you guys are doing in the space to see you guys grow the past three years has been awesome. To see the bevnets of the world, to see all these things grow, to see the new trade shows popping up versus all the traditional trade shows, it's been really exciting. And I just want to say to anyone listening that don't conform to the industry, don't let the industry change you. Just follow your gut, follow your own how you would do it on your own terms.

39:48
Matt Levine
And that's kind of something that I learned. And it took me a few months to really step back and say, man, this is not you. This is not how you've operated the past X amount of years in your life. I don't want to give away my age, but you got to just don't be scared to be creative, don't be scared to be entrepreneurial, don't be scared to create your own lane. And even me just giving advice, I feel weird doing that now because I'm still learning every day and I'm still taking chances. And like I said earlier, I still have no idea what I'm doing. But I'm following my gut and I'm having fun doing it. And that's kind know, I think the approach you need to take is just follow your gut and have no regrets when making decisions.

40:32
Daniel Scharff
Yeah, I love it. And Matt and I learned we're actually the same age, which confused me because he looks about ten years younger. And so we decided it's the fountain of youth chlorophyll water that is working its magic on him. So Matt, you've been incredibly successful getting into retail doors with your great product. How do you actually get in touch with a lot of them? I think you and I are both really prolific LinkedIn users and big fans of it. How do you even figure out who are the buyers? I need to get in touch with and what's your initial approach to them like, and then getting to the point where you can actually try to get them product and have a serious conversation with them.

41:13
Matt Levine
Yeah, that's a great question. I think you don't know who the buyers are, so you don't know exactly who the buyers are. You search certain keywords Beverage Buyer category Review Category Manager so you get creative when you get creative. And then I think when launching, it's working with different and unique ways to distribute hotels, for example, like shout out to Equinox hotel getting in. Mini bars getting in. Yoga studios getting in. Clothing stores getting in. I'm speaking just for beverage brands, or actually any brand. Think outside the box. How could you get in somewhere but start local? Start local. A lot of face to face, start independent. Because getting into the larger retailers, you need to understand the system. You need to understand filling out I didn't know what an NIF meant for so long. New information form, I think it stands for.

42:10
Matt Levine
I fill out so many of those now. But before it takes you a while to really understand what these things are. But you don't need to hire outside help to fill out these forms. You could do it yourself in the beginning. Once you get the hang of it. Do one, do two, do three. But yeah, use LinkedIn. People are really helpful on LinkedIn. If they're not the right buyer, they'll connect you with the person that is. And don't be scared to send out samples if you really believe in the product which everyone should just send it out. I send out so many cases to buyers, to reps, or to just employees of companies that I want to be in or that I think chlorophyll water would sell well just to get it in there. Just to get it in. Don't be scared.

42:52
Matt Levine
To DM athletes to get it into locker rooms or to your product into all these places. So the power of social media, the power of LinkedIn. I always say this is kind of I related to the acting world. It takes 1000 auditions to get on a hit TV show. It takes 1000 LinkedIn messages to get into one retail. I mean, it's just outreach. Outreach, outreach.

43:15
Daniel Scharff
Yeah.

43:15
Matt Levine
Don't be scared.

43:16
Daniel Scharff
Yeah. Amazing. And I think it's important to acknowledge mainly you've done this without a broker also. Right. I think a lot of people assume you do need a broker to know who the retailers are, know when the submissions are, do the actual paperwork and then manage the account. But you've obviously been really successful without a broker. Can you talk a little bit about how you think about that?

43:35
Matt Levine
Yeah, I don't know when some of these category reviews are because I don't have a broker. So maybe there's some business that I am losing out. And not all brokers. I've heard great success stories on brokers, but for Chlorophyll Water right now, I think it's important for me as the founder to build relationships with the stores directly and to build those relationships early on. And as we grow, I'm sure we'll eventually need to hire brokers and to help grow the brand because they've got the relationships. But for now, I think it's important when you're first launching a brand to build those relationships with the retailers directly. And I wouldn't be able to reach out to them, ask how Chlorophyll what it was doing, or send them, happy Thanksgiving, merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah notes, happy New Year's notes.

44:21
Matt Levine
Just checking in and then at trade shows, going to trade shows is great visibility. You're meeting people directly. You're meeting people one one. You're showing face. And the other thing, too, is just being a brand, you're always selling. That's the thing. It's like consistently sales. It's do zooms check in. I would say just you got to build the relationships directly with the retailers when you're first launching.

44:46
Daniel Scharff
And when it comes to doing promo calendars and picking the marketing options for places like Whole Foods, do you do all of your own research or do you ask friends what programs have been successful? How do you manage doing a promo calendar then, without the help of a broker?

45:01
Matt Levine
We haven't done many promo calendars, to be honest. But when doing I just filled one out. Shout out Darren at Bristol. We just filled one out. And it's just yeah, it's thinking when your product need, when it's a slower part of your sales season. So with Chlorophyll Water, we actually get four seasons out of it. Obviously, summer we get water sales are high, and then in the winter, we get the immunity push because of the vitamins. In New Year's, people get their resolution because of Chlorophyll's benefits to detox and weight loss. So I kind of surround the promos basically around season, different initiatives, whether it's National Yoga Month, new Year's resolutions. So I focus the promotions based on the brand identity.

45:50
Daniel Scharff
Awesome.

45:50
Matt Levine
Okay, cool.

45:51
Daniel Scharff
So last question for you. Being at trade shows, meeting other founders, are there a couple of brands that you're a big fan of? Maybe a couple that either you personally have in your fridge or your pantry, other emerging brands or ones that you think just do a great job at some of the shows that you see, or founders that you connect with a lot and try to take trade tips with? Any come to mind?

46:13
Matt Levine
Yeah, I mean, the ones that initially come to mind, and I think they've done an awesome job, and they build community. And with Chlorophyll, when I first launched, it was about branding. It was about building identity and building a strong foundation of credibility through the alloyogas, through the Erwans. So I look at brands like Poppy, the community that they built, mud Water, the community that they built. And I love that. And that's kind of what now my focus with Chlorophyll Water is building community. I feel like we've done our part with building credibility, and we have a strong foundation. And you treat a brand like you're building a house. First you need an architect, then you need the base. You need the foundation.

46:56
Matt Levine
And then you kind of grow from you know, we're kind of now in that phase where we have the foundation, we have the credibility, or at least I like to think we have the credibility through the retailers that we're in. And now it's time to build community. And I think Poppy does an awesome job doing that. I think Mudwater does a great job doing. Then, you know, there's so many young entrepreneurs and young brands out there that at trade shows, to be honest with you, I'm paying for that booth. So I'm not leaving. I'm running to the bathroom. I'm not leaving that booth. So I'm usually just friends with the people next to me or in front of me or, know, bringing buyers over to know, just, hey, be right back. Know, bringing some buyers over to friends and whatnot.

47:44
Matt Levine
Yeah, I think I got to give a shout out to my old assistant, Michelle Jimenez. She launched Pizza Cupcake. And I absolutely love what Michelle's doing. Super proud of her that she took the chance and became an entrepreneur. She was my assistant when I had my restaurants. And to see the brand that she has grown is great. I got to give Andres from Cheeky chicky boom a shout out. Love. Like, we bounce ideas off of each other all the time. And then I also got to give a shout out to people that believe in your brand. And, you know, Oliver is an awesome sales rep on the West Coast, santa Cruz Beverages. He's a mean. Being an entrepreneur is tough.

48:25
Matt Levine
So if you don't have the support system around you from sales reps, independent sales reps from other entrepreneurs, there's so many great, cool brands out there in my fridge, though, to be honest with you, I'm simple. I just have my bottle of water, my thermos here of water, and liquid chlorophyll and marine phytoplankton, blue green algae, little sea moss. It's a rainy day. Know what Machu Picchu has created. I think you guys have done a great job. I know you're not there anymore, and I'm happy you're full time at startup CBG to blow this thing up. I think Rocket Ship is the emoji and the logo. So there's so many great brands out there. I want to see everyone win. That's the we want to see everyone succeed.

49:08
Daniel Scharff
Yeah, well, that's all.

49:09
Matt Levine
And I want to shout people, like, if anyone listening ever wants to talk, know, shoot me a message on LinkedIn, just profiles. Matt Levine. DM me DM chlorophyll water. I'm constantly checking them. Shout out to my social team as well that have been doing a great job. But, yeah, feel free to reach out. I love bouncing ideas and collaborating with people. I'm going to give another shout out to Brandictory. Branjectory is another great platform for startups. They have founder, meetups and attend your local startup CBG events. I just attended the one in Miami, met other founders, gave out Chlorophyll Water and yeah, it's really cool when the community comes together.

49:47
Daniel Scharff
Awesome. Thank you. Yeah, and I love hearing those names you mentioned, like Andres and Oliver Cole, both people who have been extremely helpful to me on my journey also. So there are great people out there who can help you. So I just want to thank Matt Levine from Chlorophyll Water for joining us. That was a really awesome, useful discussion. I think really helpful for anybody who wants to know how they can launch a brand, even with just one SKU, be really scrappy and absolutely blast onto the scene. So thank you for all of that great advice and it's been wonderful to have you on the show.

50:19
Matt Levine
Thank you. I appreciate the time and I loved how you used the blast off pun intended there.

50:24
Daniel Scharff
Yeah, no, but it will be next time.

50:29
Matt Levine
Thank you so much. We really appreciate the opportunity and yeah, this is my first podcast, so I'm excited to be with you guys.

50:36
Daniel Scharff
All right, well, you get five stars, very first one.

50:38
Matt Levine
Appreciate it. Thanks. Bye.

50:43
Outro
All right, everybody, thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed the podcast today, it would really help us out. If you can leave a five star review on Apple podcasts or Spotify. I am Daniel Sharf. I'm the host and founder of Startup CPG. Please feel free to reach out or add me on LinkedIn. If you're a potential sponsor that would like to appear on the podcast, please email partnerships@startupcpg.com and reminder to all of you out there, we would love to have you join the community. You can sign up at our website, startupcpg.com to learn about our webinars events and Slack Channel. If you enjoyed today's music, you can check out my band, it's the Super Fantastics on Spotify Music. On behalf of the entire Startup CPG team, thank you so much for listening and your support. See you next time.