The Startup CPG Podcast

Aaron Branholt: We have dealt with everything from selling on a story to building your data to selling innovation that you haven't even made yet. Right. Like, that's a no brainer. And managing trade and spend and forecast thing and all that stuff. So we try to provide outside of just helping you get a meeting with a retailer or build a new item in the Kehi portal, we try to bring all of what we've gathered to the table, and I think that's what makes us different.

Daniel Scharff: Welcome, startup CPG listeners. On today's podcast, we have Aaron Barnholt of cultivate CPG, a brokerage that specializes in working with early stage brands. I'm really excited for you to hear Aaron's tips on launching a brand into retail. And we had an awesome discussion on specific tips for getting into anchor retailers that you may consider applying to in the early stages of your brand. Aaron has a great background working across distributors, brands, and now as a broker, I know you'll find his insights extremely useful and practical. Enjoy. All right, welcome, startup CPG listeners. So today we're joined by Aaron Barnholt, who's president at cultivate CPG. Aaron's got a really cool background, including lots of major us retailers. His expertise is super remarkable. He has spent five years as vp of sales at companies, scaling startups from local gems to national success stories. So join us.

Daniel Scharff: We're going to hear a lot of insights from Aaron about accelerating growth and bringing your founder dreams to life in the world of CPG. Welcome, Aaron. Thank you so much for joining us.

Aaron Branholt: Thanks, Daniel, for having me on. It's a pleasure to be here. Appreciate it.

Daniel Scharff: Absolutely.

Aaron Branholt: Yeah.

Daniel Scharff: So let's jump right in. Aaron, do you mind just giving people a little bit more background on your career journey and kind of what led you to cultivate CPG?

Aaron Branholt: Yeah, so I started in the grocery business, really, in 2010. I worked at KE distributors through college, and shortly thereafter after college, I should say, worked in various roles there. Everything from Amazon specialist. So building items in Amazon, selling them out of kehi warehouses to assistant to category managers. So I help set up items, I help roadmaps. I managed the new at Kehi program I'm sure a lot of folks are familiar with. Ultimately, I landed at account manager at Albertson Safeway. So I was kind of an account manager, and then I jumped from there over to the brand side. So I went and worked at Yi.

Daniel Scharff: What does account manager mean? Yeah, what does an account manager at Khee do?

Aaron Branholt: Yeah. So you're a human speed bag for the retailer, and you deal with thousands of brands that want to get their products into that retailer. No, but really you're in the retailer's office, so you're their resource because you manage all of their natural and specialty products, all the supply chain side and the logistics and then even like in store. Right. Some accounts have Ke and Unifi reps that write orders, they fill orders and they're the point person. So you're a large, essentially a know distributor. Oh, yeah.

Daniel Scharff: Just going to ask. In my experience, there's some category managers who are more hands off, but then there are some that are really hands on and the buyers almost use them to screen brands and take recommendations from them.

Aaron Branholt: Absolutely. Yeah. So like a whole foods, you would barely see any unfi count management stuff. They're essentially a supply chain team, sort of similar at sprouts. On the flip side, if you go to a place like Wegmans or you go to a place like Meyer, the Kennedy and the Unfi teams, they're almost the broker, right. They're the gatekeepers for assortment decisions. And no matter if you're cultivate or you're representing yourself or you're a Costa, you're going most of the time through the account teams if you are a natural specialty product. So it varies for sure. Being an ex distributor account manager, I like account managers. They have a really hard job. They deal with the whole vendor community, they deal with all the brokers and they also deal with all the retailers. So it's a tough job.

Aaron Branholt: I definitely think I learned a lot there and I'm grateful for that experience, for sure.

Daniel Scharff: That's cool. I always tell people, yeah, treat those distributor reps as if they're buyers. Do all of your marketing to them, follow up with them, they can hook you up big time. They believe in your brand and stop them at the trade shows and try to figure out which accounts they cover especially. You mentioned Safeway Albertson. I think there especially we had a lot of help from them and they were the ones presenting our items in.

Aaron Branholt: A lot of helpful. Cool. Yes. Yeah.

Daniel Scharff: So then you went to then what was after Khee?

Aaron Branholt: So I went to Ye's Thai, which is a thai condiment company. It's nationally distributed. And founders came into the Safeway office one day in Denver and we kind of hit it off. Anyway, they asked me to come run sales and I was looking for something new and it was a good opportunity to jump in ground level. Right. And I ran sales for them four or five years.

Daniel Scharff: How did that experience from Kehi help you just jump right into the sales world. What was that transition like? Because I do see a lot of people who are forward buyers or for distributor reps then turn onto the brand side.

Aaron Branholt: I was light years ahead of the game. Knowing 200 ke reps, to your point, like utilizing the distributor reps, it definitely helped me accelerate the growth of that brand. It helped that a, I had really cool founders that I worked for and b, we had a super cool product that there wasn't a lot of innovation within the asian set right center store at that time. So it was kind of perfect timing and we got into essentially every national natural retailer, all the independents, and started chipping away at conventional as well. It was a super fun experience. Got to fly all over the country. This was pre Covid, so it was fly to anywhere for a 30 minutes meeting and then you get back on a plane, you go home and you fly out the next day or the next week. So awesome times.

Aaron Branholt: Learned a lot, met a ton of people. You learn what retailers are worth your time and energy and which ones aren't right pretty quick. So definitely impacts cultivate and what we strive to do with our brand partners.

Daniel Scharff: Yeah, I just remembering you talk about traveling like pre Covid. I actually went to an ECRM event earlier this year as part of our partnership with Rangeme. And actually just sitting down and having a meeting with a buyer I'd never met before was mind blowing. Like, oh my. Like, when was the last time I did this? This is incredible. So which do you like better? The old world where you have to travel there, but it's kind of special and you might get some cool time with them and they're probably more likely to bring you on if you're actually making the pilgrimage versus the new world.

Aaron Branholt: Where you can get all this stuff.

Daniel Scharff: Done from the nice little home office I see you have there.

Aaron Branholt: Yeah, hybrid. I'd go hybrid. So it's nice not traveling every single meeting. I like obviously going to the shows and then the occasional meeting with retailers when they're open to meeting in person. A lot of retailers are coming back, but it's slow and I think, yeah, mix of both big important meetings with retailers you've never had FaceTime with I think is super important. But if we don't have to sit on the plane every single week, it's going to save a lot of time and energy for everyone, including retailers, vendors, brokers, the whole nine. So I like a hybrid kind of mix and taking advantage of when we're at expo, when we're at the ke and unifi shows, I think, is what we do. Right? I mean, make the most of your time when you are traveling. Yeah.

Daniel Scharff: My kind of rule of thumb is if they ask you to come for the in person meeting, go to the meeting. If it's a big enough retailer, then they're asking you for a reason and you should be able to make the most of.

Aaron Branholt: Yeah.

Daniel Scharff: All right, so, Aaron, tell me about cultivate CPG. How did it get started? What were the early brands that you were working with? Yeah, tell me about the early days.

Aaron Branholt: Totally. So I met Tommy along the way when I was at K Heat. Tommy Williams. Tom Williams. He started multiple brands, but he had a frozen vegetable line called Tommy Superfood. And we kind of stayed in touch. When I was at Ke, he was a younger guy, and we just kind of clicked. And anyway, fast forward, when we started this company, were just catching up and we said, hey, there's a need for brokers for very early stage brands. And we kind of hooked up and started a little side hustle, frankly. And very quickly it was like, wow, there is a massive need for broker representation. Know a sales outfit, whatever you want to call it, a service that helps brands scale their product and get it onto shelves. And so, yeah, I think our first brand was Orobora sparkling water.

Aaron Branholt: So I met Paul through mutual friends. They were like, hey, Aaron is in the grocery industry. You should probably talk to this guy. And we'd meet up in Denver at, like, coffee shops, and I'd blow his mind talking about a UPC, a DC, a promo plan, all these things that he's like, what are you talking know? He'd write it all down. And so, yeah, we helped. That was our earliest days. His earliest days, right. I was going up and overseeing production at the Coman, the whole nine. And I don't want to take any credit away from Paul. Right. I mean, he is a rocket ship. But yeah, we helped him for his probably first twelve to 18 months in retail space. And yeah, from there we've worked with tons of fun brands, but we've had to grow our company with these young brands.

Aaron Branholt: So at first, for the first six months, it was just Tom and I and kind of hard to convince young brands to hire a two person brokerage. Now we've scaled up and we've added key players to the team that are really strong in their regions. And we are a national brokerage. Right. And we are focused on key retailers in each region. So that's kind of our playbook.

Daniel Scharff: And what would you say? What's your strong suit. What are you great at? What stuff that, I mean, I think it makes all the sense in the world for you to have a growing brand. Everybody listening to this can relate to that. But what are you already great at? What's the stuff that you want to get better at in the future?

Aaron Branholt: For sure? We love zero to 60 buildup. That's who we want to work with is the young brands, because that is where we shine. That is where we're good. We have to sell. That has no data story, so we're selling the founder's mission and his or her product, and that's where we shine. And obviously, I'll say great at the distributor stuff. My background at Kehi, we have another gentleman on our team who comes from Kee. We have a guy who came from the Unfi Wegmans team, so he's deadly with the distributor stuff. And whether you like it or not, that's part of the game. We're very experienced calling on all anchor accounts across the country and knowing which ones are actually going to be impactful for your business. Right.

Aaron Branholt: Because when you're a young founder, you have a cool product, you say yes to everyone, and usually you find out, okay, maybe there are some retailers that I should probably wait till I'm in year two, three, four. And so we try to help navigate. So, yeah, the playbook has been built growing our own brands in the past. Right. Tommy as a founder, me as a vp of sales. Awesome.

Daniel Scharff: Okay, so let's play it through then. Let's say I'm a new brand that's reaching out to you for some help. And maybe I'm not brand new, but maybe I've spent the last year getting some nice little distribution natural channel, like some one offs, maybe close to unlocking some distribution centers. What are you going to tell me? Like, hey, working with us. Here's what we're going to tell you. Here's what we're going to try to go after together. What are your early priorities going to be for a brand like that?

Aaron Branholt: Yeah, for sure. I mean, we get downloaded on everything that's ever happened. Right. With our brands because we want to know what's what. We want to know what combos they've had. And then essentially, we're going to stick to anchor accounts that are premium. And how we categorize that is obviously the natural, folks. That's a given. That's our backyard. I don't really believe in a geography backyard. I believe in the natural channel being your backyard. So we're going to help you speed up sales in that channel. And we're also going to start having combos with what I call super regionals. So that's going to be Rayleigh's, that's going to be Wegmans, that's going to be Heb, that's going to be Meyer. Right. So it's retailers that are conventional, but they sell a lot of natural product.

Aaron Branholt: They have that consumer that is looking for better for you product, maybe a little less price sensitive. And that's where my team is focused day in, day out. Right. And I think we also will help build the roadmap promotionally for a, let's get, if you have the money for it, let's build a smart and effective roadmap with Kehi, with Unfi. And that sets us up to then build out all of our retail promotional planning. Right. So that's kind of the gist, I'd say.

Daniel Scharff: Okay, so you do the deep dive. Figure out who they've already talked to, maybe who they already pissed off, or who they have some good momentum with at this point. Figure out what you're working with when you get started, and then you do your thing and start reaching out. How does it work? So you have your team and they're connected in with the different retailers. Do they usually kind of already have the relationship warm with a lot of different categories, or are they trying to build then relationships with new category buyers and some retailers, if you start working with a brand, how do they get that brand on the buyer's radar?

Aaron Branholt: Yeah, for sure. I think it's a mix of everything. Right. Just as I said and you mentioned, distributor reps sometimes are very hands on with assortment decisions, sometimes they're not. I think the same goes for retailers. Right. And we call on all of the retailers that these brands want to be in. Some of these retailers, we have standing biweekly meetings with some of them, we do lunch with some of them, we have happy hours with some of them may be new to the desk, and we're going to simply just follow the process. Right. I think having the kind of the secret handshake at these retailers, I would say, is more of the old boy mentality. And there's nothing wrong with that. Right. Like, relationships are great, but most importantly, you have to know the game. What makes these retailers tick?

Aaron Branholt: What do they want to see as far as a promotional program go? And then specifically drill down to each buyer, what makes that person tick? Right. Like I could say, hey, we've sold to this guy at so and so retailer a bunch. We know exactly what he's going to be looking for here and here's probably his or her feedback. Right. So yeah, it's a mix of relationship but also knowing the game at these key retailers. Right. And to your point, bring in the ke or the UnFI person. They're important. Right. Invite them to dinner when you're at Expo along with their retailer. Take care of them.

Daniel Scharff: Yeah, really interesting. I remember when I was running a beverage brand, some learnings we would get from our broker. Like, hey, this particular buyer actually gets paid on this particular sampling program. So we recommend that you definitely throw a lot of that into your proposal, which taking a position on whether or not it should be that way. But it did help us get into the account. So that was a really nice learning. You're going to have to pay it up somewhere, so you might as well do it where it counts. Yeah, I guess maybe on that topic also of I'm seeing a lot of brands get more active in just straight up asking the buyer like, hey, what do you want to see on this proposal?

Aaron Branholt: Sure.

Daniel Scharff: What is your approach to brands actually doing submissions with buyers? How much of it are you basing off other submissions that you guys have done with them or just general market knowledge versus trying to discuss it with the buyer? All in this context of we don't all have unlimited money and especially anymore, and suffer fundraising push towards profitability. What are you seeing around those submissions and negotiations?

Aaron Branholt: Some retailers are going to want to be a part of the conversation. Right. And they're going to give you good feedback on how to plan your promotions. Right. I had a meeting not too long ago with a gal at Thrive market, Kelly Bond, and she was really helpful on how to build the marketing program for 2024. She was like, hey, here's the things I would do. They move the needle, put your time and energy there and that's going to make your dollar go the furthest and ultimately it's going to sell the most product through the virtual store there. Right. So there's instances where that happens and then some retailers, they're way too busy and they don't have time to babysit. So they lean on us to put together promo planners that work, that we've seen and know work.

Aaron Branholt: And as far as negotiation goes, I mean, be generic in my feedback. I think obviously if you're women owned, BIPOc owned, whatever, any of that stuff, always bring it to the table. I don't think it guarantees you a pass, but certainly it should be looked at and it should be considered. But what I've seen in the negotiation process typically is, well, hey, we can't actually waive the slotting fee, but maybe they throw you a free 10,000, $20,000 ad, or maybe they give you off shelf on your first TPR that you do, or open the door for extra marketing outside of just your typical paid TPR at the shelf. So it might not be, hey, everything's free, but it could be, hey, it's not free, but we're willing to throw in this and the other. Right?

Daniel Scharff: And where does that freebie stuff actually happen? Do you see it? Because you're on a call with a buyer and you're like, asking them, hey, can you help me out? They're like, yeah, I could do this, or is it over email negotiations? What are the right words to ask to unlock some of those opportunities that only the buyer probably knows about?

Aaron Branholt: Yeah, I mean, honestly, the way raise it is, are you guys willing to partner with us on X, Y and Z? And here's why. Hey, can you partner with us on an off shelf and or a 50% off ad? And that would be really helpful because we're a small company, right? We only have so much funds. And the other thing, too, that has always been the saying is we prefer to put the funds into selling the product off the shelf, so we want to put it into ads and tprs. Right. And most retailers understand that and they're willing to partner on some level. The only downside flip side to that is there's unlimited brands out there that are willing to spend cash.

Aaron Branholt: So you just have to take that into consideration in your final stages of negotiation with these big key retailers, is they have ten other brands begging to get in there, right? It's a balance.

Daniel Scharff: Speaking of taking cash, what do you tell brands about Albertson Safeway, which is kind of a notorious high slotting, often lower velocity, high price point on shelf kind of account, with also a huge risk of being delisted if your product doesn't perform. What's your stance on that? For your brands?

Aaron Branholt: All decisions are made at the national level, right? They have the new kind of NCD, the national category director roles, and they come from all the different divisions, and they're the smartest of the best. And so they are the one stop shop decision makers where four or five years ago, you went to 14 different divisions and you sold 14 different category managers. Right. So what I would say is when you ask for a meeting, when you submit your new item form, if you're a young brand with not a lot of distribution, especially not a lot of distribution in the conventional channel, you are angling towards maybe it's your backyard. Right. If you're in SoCal, you should probably ask for Vaughn's pavilions and maybe the Albertson stores. But more than anything it's, hey, we'd love to be in your specialty division.

Aaron Branholt: So that's going to be kings, Balduchi's, that's going to be united supermarket, Market street, that's going to be Hagen and then you might get pavilions. So that's kind of where I start. Focus small. They know that those stores are less price sensitive and they're more driven with natural and specialty products. So start small. You're going to have to probably pay a slotting fee depending on what category you're going into. But yeah, don't go into 1600 doors and pay two cases per skew per store. You're done.

Daniel Scharff: Yeah, that's a rough one.

Aaron Branholt: Yeah.

Daniel Scharff: I like what you're saying about some of the specialty stores. I've also heard some people getting in maybe one of those chains or in through the nosh like the natural organics buyer or maybe leveraging one of the diversity claims, which I think really amazing to see how much the industry is opening up to try to level the playing field and open up really cool opportunities for diverse founders, BIPOC founders, female founders. Absolutely see that. And then trying to use that when you go and negotiate with the broader ones of like, oh, no, but I only paid one case. Slotting at this other place. Can't we do that? I've seen some success that way. It's just so hard because a place like Albertson Safeway, the potential for volume is absolutely enormous. Obviously them being, I think the number three retailer in the country.

Daniel Scharff: But I also personally have talked to some buyers at those chains who have said to me very flatly like, yeah, we like the product. Listen, it's just about who pays the.

Aaron Branholt: Damn CPG.

Daniel Scharff: Totally.

Aaron Branholt: Yeah.

Daniel Scharff: So very helpful insights. And then so, and also just a shout out that you gave for Kelly Bond from Thrive market. I love that team Kelly was on our startup CPG yacht party sponsored by Libations and Li vibrations last week and just being really accessible to brands and just I found that whole team to be so helpful and straightforward and authentically passionate about the industry. So really great interactions with them. So given everything you know, now let's put you in the driver's seat of a brand. So let's say you launch Aaron's cookies or Aaron's sweet beverage company next week. What's your strategy going to say? You've got a million in funding lined up and you think you can get more if you show really good success?

Daniel Scharff: What's your game plan going to be for how you're going to go out into market from a sales perspective? Who are you going after and when and what are some key things you're.

Aaron Branholt: Going to focus on? I'm going after all of the key anchor accounts in the country, and that's going to be central market. That's going to be fresh time. That's going to be Gelson's, Harmons. All of these accounts, some of which I've already spoke to, I'm going to those because I know sprouts and Whole Foods are not coming on tomorrow. They're not coming on in the first three months. Right. It's no secret everyone wants to be in those two retailers I'll throw thrive in there, too. Right. They can do some serious volume if you wait around all day for just them going to get to where you want to be. And this is a volume game. Right. You need to be in as many doors as you can. Meaningful, impactful doors.

Aaron Branholt: So our approach and our philosophy, I guess mine is go wide, but stay focused on the right retailers that bring a good ROI. And I could literally rattle off all the anchors that we love working with if you want. But yeah, it's focus on anchors that open dcs that get you closer to a, building data for the big guys right down the road that have to see that data and b, they open up doors to say, start working with infra, start working with NCG. Right. Like have a meaningful independent business because you've unlocked all these warehouses. So that would be my goal.

Aaron Branholt: If I had a product that was super unique and retailers were just constantly saying yes, I would try to be as focused as I can and say no to retailers that I think are more of a year, two year, three retail rollout. Okay. Right? Yeah.

Daniel Scharff: And then what about, I mean, totally agree with you. Those are just incredible opportunities. Those are high velocity accounts that anchor you into dcs. Just some of the best buyers out. Like so many people love Laura from central market still for me is one of the only buyers I know who will run up to you at a show. Like, I would love to carry your product. How can we make that happen? Which is just such a refreshing thing. So definitely good shout out. Know someone like her. I think she and central market like to go really early with brands and try know be the first to present them to their, you know, it's not always going to be true. Like, you know, maybe fresh time thrive. Like you're gonna have to show them something, right?

Daniel Scharff: So what is Aaron's cookies or Aaron's sweet beverage company going to do to convince those really awesome anchors to in fact anchor you? Like, are you going to try to show them some momentum or some online data? With this new company that we're pretending that you're starting here, what do you feel like? You're going to have a good shot.

Aaron Branholt: I mean, we say this all the time, but we don't sell on data to sell on your story. And why are you different? Right. Like if I'm Aaron's sweet beverage company and I'm the 9th guy that month to roll out, let's say a functional bev, there isn't going to be a whole lot of differentiation unless you put it into the can, you put it into the branding, you put it into the mission. Right? So your product and as you, as a founder and who you work with have to be different, right? Because we're not going to convince thrive or let's say fresh time to take the product if they don't see any qualities that are different than what they already have on the shelf or the other five guys that are hounding them email. So you just have to be sure.

Daniel Scharff: It's really interesting to hear from you. I think I'm learning from something from you here from a sales standpoint because I think with central market and maybe Airwan, my experience was, okay, they will take a look at brand new brands and they like that. But the other ones, I always felt like you need some momentum to show them. Like you need some kind of data slides, even if you're just cobbling together a couple of individual wins that you got or some kind of data. But it sounds like what you're saying is actually you can sell to those buyers based on story and product differentiation alone. So it sounds like you've seen some good success there.

Aaron Branholt: Absolutely. Yeah, indeed. You're selling the story because even if you do get a central market and an arowan, your data story still, like when you look at the macro picture, there's no data story still, right? I mean, there's ways to prop it up and make it look great, right? You can say, hey, I'm the number two pasta sauce in the section at this store. And someone like a sprouts might say, great, that's awesome. But they also might say, well, that's nine stores in Los Angeles. That's not 406 stores across the whole bottom of the country. So you really need the bigger retailers to start building data that shows up in spins or Nielsen. So it's chicken in the egg. But taking the snapshots from key retailers that you are in on the earliest days is important.

Aaron Branholt: But also selling on your story and getting those huge wins is important. Right. Like you need the breaks from the key retailers and you need to capture as much as you possibly can at those early stage retailers. Great.

Daniel Scharff: Fantastic.

Aaron Branholt: Okay.

Daniel Scharff: So when I was starting out my brand, I did not know anything about the broker landscape. I had worked at brands that had used brokers before, but I didn't necessarily even understand what they did exactly. I certainly didn't know the names of a lot of them and didn't know the differences and who was good at what. So can you tell me a little bit about if you're an early brand and discovering the landscape, how should you be thinking about it? How should you be trying to find the right broker? And of course I'd be really interested to know, how do you differentiate cultivate CBG versus legacy brokers that are out there?

Aaron Branholt: Sure. I think two different early stage routes. It's one, you've built the company to a place where you're bursting at the seams. Right. And you need help desperately. So that's one way. The other is you're completely clueless or you're completely clueless as far as how to sell into a retailer. Founders are very smart. They just haven't figured out the retail game whatsoever. So they need some guide to bring them to market, so to speak. Right. So it's either, yeah, you're not going to learn it or you don't have it under your belt yet, or I'm bursting at the seams and I can't keep up with growing my business. Right. Most founders are going to be the ops managers. Right. So you're doing ops and then you're also raising capital. Right.

Aaron Branholt: And then you're trying to be kind of the directional face of the brand, so to speak. So to be also doing all of the sales across the country is insane at some point. So you have to go out and find something. So I'll say ultimate does is maybe dissimilar from most brokers out there. We love the early stage. We want to work with brands who have a clean, empty canvas. I don't want to go work with a brand that's already been out there and shot their shot five times with the Wegmans buyer before they come and hire us.

Daniel Scharff: Right.

Aaron Branholt: I want to work with them in the beginning and I want to help them build their strategy. Right. And what's also different to an extent is like me and Tom's background is he's a founder of multiple brands and I am obviously a Kehi guy, but I also have been on the startup side, right. As the VP of sales for a young brand and scaled nationally. So we have dealt with everything from selling on a story to building your data to selling innovation that you haven't even made yet. Right. That's a no brainer. And managing trade and spend and forecasting and all that stuff.

Aaron Branholt: So we try to provide value outside of just helping you get a meeting with a retailer or build a new item in the kehi portal, we try to bring all of what we've gathered to the table and I think that's what makes us different.

Daniel Scharff: And let's say a brand wanted to work with you. What's the ideal stage then that they're at when they work to you? Like if they launch from scratch as soon as they have sales samples or you think it's good for them to try to do a little bit of stuff on their own and test and learn a little bit or. What do you think is ideal?

Aaron Branholt: Yeah, I mean, it's got to have some capital in the bank. I'm not free. Our team isn't. We don't work for free and retail is definitely not free. Right. I'm going to be the cheapest thing they encounter, but got to have capital samples is definitely part of the game. So, yeah, I mean, I would say like some Runway on your brand and some fuel in the tank there. Really, do you have sales assets? Are you ready to go? Have you thought about this? That's part of what we do with young brands when we first start kind of courting is we talk through all of that. Right, are you ready for X, Y and Z? Because this is what it's going to take. Right. So that is definitely part of the chat. Yeah.

Daniel Scharff: And what are those rates like? Are you guys flat fee? Do you do commission? Is it both? How does that work? I'm sure everybody listening would like to know.

Aaron Branholt: Yeah, totally. So it's 7500 a month percent. Right. So that sounds maybe expensive, but it's also not expensive compared to some of the options out there. Right. You can really blow your brains out. There's a lot of good options out there though. No doubt. I think the way to think about it, as a young brand is you can go hire a director of sales or a vp of sales, they're going to be in that price range or more, and then they're going to go hire a broker. Right. And half of the brands we work with have a director of sales. Right. So I'm all for having a dedicated salesperson at your brand, but you think of us as we're sort of your national sales team in the early days, right? And we also do all the boring broker administrative stuff.

Daniel Scharff: So you said 7500 or 5% sales, whichever is greater. So early days, 7500. And then once you get to the volume where that's less, then you'll be paying the 5%. It sounds like you're okay then working with brands at the early stage, even if they don't have a sales lead, and you'll just basically be that sales lead for them, helping them on strategy and obviously going out and pitching to.

Aaron Branholt: Retailers, we love that. That's where we thrive.

Daniel Scharff: So that can be a cost saving for brands to maybe delay that sales hire as well, just to lean on you guys a lot. And then Hasu, what's the best way that you've seen brands work with you guys? So me working with a broker, I was able to help a lot on the sales process because I was really active on LinkedIn and I was reaching out to brokers, to buyers there, and I was meeting buyers at trade shows and doing a lot of direct follow up. I think sometimes it is pretty special for them to hear directly from you at the brand and then you can use that to include the broker into the conversation.

Daniel Scharff: So the brands that you work with, who does it best, what do they do to just help the overall process and contribute to, I would say, a really effective sales cycle.

Aaron Branholt: Yeah, I would say folks who trust us to work hard for them, but then come into the meeting ready to give the brand pitch. Right. That's going to be super important that they're ready for those pitches. I think brands who get the opportunity to pitch a lot are going to be the best at pitching, they're going to be the best at closing. Folks that want to get in the weeds and really are engaged, ultimately they find the most success. Right. Because I want to sell all of my brands to every retailer. That's incredible. But having that true brand champion founder pushing right alongside of us, that moves the needle. That goes a long way for sure. So an engaged founder definitely moves the needle. All right.

Daniel Scharff: So I'm sure a lot of people would love some specific account tips. If there are a couple that we could jump, you know, if we talk, know, Wegmans, a couple others. What would you say to somebody applying to Wegmans for the first time, for example, let's say they're doing it without the help of a broker. They're reaching out to the buyer. Like, any specific tips for them in their proposal or how they approach them?

Aaron Branholt: Yeah, absolutely. Wegman is a fun one. It's a tough nut to crack. I think you're not going to get anywhere without working with Unifi or any of the smaller distributors that are there. There are a couple other options. Local DSD folks that will get your products there. But get in touch with the unifi folks, set up meetings directly with them, get them excited about your brand, because they can walk down the hallway to the CM's desk and drop samples and drop your pitch deck and say, hey, if you want to meet with Daniel at Sweet Bev, like, they're the ones that are going to get you in that door, I think. Yeah.

Daniel Scharff: So that's that.

Aaron Branholt: I think you're definitely doing an EDLP at Wegmans, right? They just want an everyday low price. That's kind of the name of their game. And then what are you doing outside of the doors of Wegmans to drive traffic and brand awareness. That's another hot button, I guess I would call out like, do you have a big d to c business? What does the footprint look like in upstate New York? Right. How many folks know your brand for sure?

Daniel Scharff: That makes sense. That definitely jives with my experience that I had with them. I think when I reached out to the buyer, they sent me to the Unfi rep. So I think that's a really good example of when just going right to that, the account manager can give you a big boost. Cool. And then. So, okay, how about sprouts, for example? How do you typically approach that with a brand? Or how should brands think about it?

Aaron Branholt: Yeah. Sprouts is an incredible retailer. Right. Everyone wants to be in there. You're constantly worrying for time with those category managers. I think what they've done with the innovation table there, the innovation program that they're putting innovation, new brands, products onto, I think it's cool. Not all brands would say that, right? That have been on there. It's kind of been mixed feedback. But always items in the portal to the category manager responsible for your product. Start a dialogue, ask for a meeting, do the whole thing right. Keep them in the loop, but also make sure you're submitting in the portal to the innovation category, right? They have a dedicated team at sprouts that is focused on items that are going in there and reach out to them, give them the pitch, try to get FaceTime, send tons of samples.

Aaron Branholt: Like, I was in the sprouts office last week, and I will tell you, all of people that work at sprouts are trying your samples. When I worked at Albertsons, it was the same deal. Folks would send samples and guess what? In the break room, they're picking up a bag of your popcorn or they're grabbing your drink or they're heating your bar, right? Like the people in the sprouts office are trying your product and ultimately forming a decision. Right. As a group. Like, hey, is this something we like need et? But yeah, I mean, you got to hit it from all angles, right? Hit the innovation, hit the CM and continue to keep them posted. Right, and push.

Daniel Scharff: Yeah, I mean, obviously seeing tons of brands get their chance on that innovation set, which is a huge purchase order, which can be. That's terrifying, but also a really big opportunity. I know they're testing a lot of brands out there before thinking about them for the shelf. And is that so their portal, is that something anybody can log on to for the submissions?

Aaron Branholt: Yep, it's public. You can jump in there and just upload your products, images, kind of your price list, so to speak, and tell your story briefly. And it goes in and the sprouts team looks at it and they'll give you feedback. They'll give you acceptance or denial. If they give you a denial, they'll kind of give you a so. And they always encourage you, hey, for the next go around, if they give you a no, it's come back the next time.

Daniel Scharff: So another retailer, Whole Foods, who relies a lot on their portal. Right? Like if you reach out to a category manager there, a lot of the time they're just going to say, great, here's the link to the portal and you can see all the reset timing there and submit your product for consideration. What do you tell brands about whole foods? Like, how can you get beyond that kind of a response and try to build a relationship running a brand? I always felt like if I don't know the buyer and I've never talked to them, there's no way we're getting a yes from them. So I would kind of go crazy trying to find some way to build a little bit of a relationship. What do you tell brands specific to Whole Foods?

Aaron Branholt: I think Whole Foods is a retailer that care about product quality. They care about innovation, they care about people, they care about founders. They do want to see innovation. They want to see new products that don't just kind of eat away at what they already have on the shelf. So if you're willing to, obviously, assuming we're talking about young brands, like if you're willing to offer an exclusive or create some exclusive flavors or products to show to Whole foods, that sometimes will spark up some interest. If you're willing to go the extra mile, so to speak, on maybe getting the regenerative cert on your package or anything of that nature. Right. That really moves the needle from a certificate quality standards bar. That is something that gets them out of. Yeah. So, Brad. Yeah, this is fun, man.

Daniel Scharff: Let's keep running down the list. This is good info. Well, all right, so I'll pick the next one and then you pick the one after that. So I'm going to go Harmons, what are your tips for Harmons, which is an incredible account?

Aaron Branholt: Harmons? Yeah, no, it's absolutely incredible. And they follow the script, right. They have a category review. They look at most categories twice a year. They look at samples, they taste product, cut product. I would say I don't have much to add on the relationship side within those walls just because that's, someone on my team is really good there. But yeah, it's an interesting retailer because in a sense they compete with Costco. Right. So they're looking for unique product that can stand up against everyone in their market. Right. And so they move a lot of volume. But yeah, I would say just playing the game there and following up with those buyers and trying to get meetings and sending down folks to reset when you actually get in there, that's a thing, right?

Aaron Branholt: Like they expect the broker in the vendor community to come and help reset the stores during, let's say, a beverage reset. So yeah, that one. Stick to the script and follow the category review schedule, submit your paperwork on time and keep showing up. Right. All right, perfect.

Daniel Scharff: Any other retailers you think would be fun to give some tips on?

Aaron Branholt: Good question. I mean, we could talk about thrive. Let's do it. Yeah. Thrive is awesome. Right? When I was at Yai's tie, right, as the VP of sales, that was one of our earlier accounts that we got on and we hit it perfectly at when whole 30 was peaking, right. On Thrive's website, on Melissa's social, our brand as well, were in the spotlight a ton. So we sold. I mean, it was a massive account and probably still is today for the brand. I don't want to talk numbers or anything. But they're know James and Caleb and Kelly and I'm definitely forgetting some folks over there, but they have credible library of products. They do a great job on private label, they do a great job on marketing, and they know who their shopper is. Right. So I would say they've switched to rangeme.

Aaron Branholt: So you need to make sure your submission gets in through range me. And then you need to get with the CM who manages the products and you need to convince them to look at the product. I think one thing they do is they say, hey, send a set of samples to the whole squad, right. Like they're truly like a family, it feels like. So when they give you that thumbs up, don't send an unsolicited. When they give you that thumbs up, the whole team that runs the show as far as category assortment is tasting your product, right? So put some TLC into those samples. Also know that very data driven now, right? Like they're not brand new anymore. They're making great decisions for their shop and they're maximizing the space they have in their warehouses. So they will look at your data for sure.

Aaron Branholt: So knowing what you're going into in that combo, just being prepared to speak to where we're at in the natural channel, where we're at in conventional. What's whole Foods doing? Right. I might get in trouble for this, but Whole Foods doesn't roll into spins. Right. It's a Nielsen account. Right. So they can't see what's going on in whole foods. So having that in your back pocket of, hey, here's the data story at Whole Foods is important.

Daniel Scharff: Yeah, definitely was my experience with, and, you know, I think they were always really responsive to. Yeah, I love the team over there. Kelly. Christine.

Aaron Branholt: Yeah, sorry, Christine. We give her a shot. Yeah, she's awesome.

Daniel Scharff: Christine's the best. Yeah, we had the whole crew in our karaoke party also at Expo east last year. They're a lot of fun. Also, I definitely see them traveling as a fun team. They gave me really specific feedback when it was too early and said, here's what we are looking for. You guys don't necessarily have that yet. And then later we did and I went back and it was a really great discussion and they're super engaged with our community, so I really appreciate that about them. So, yeah, I guess on the opposite side of getting into a retailer, I'm just curious, have you been in situations where the brands unfortunately are on the cusp of getting discontinued? Have you seen any brands do something to try to avoid that and kind of keep the relationship going.

Daniel Scharff: Or have you seen brands at least manage it well when they are getting discontinued and make the most of it?

Aaron Branholt: There's nothing good about getting discoed. There's never anything good that comes unless it's just a lose account that you're never going to reach where you want to be with them anyway. But there's really no secrets, right? It's do more promos, see if you can get some off shelf placement. You're not going to get it, though, if you're not doing well. So having maybe boots in the field a little bit, right, if it's in your backyard might be a good opportunity, I guess I'll say. To back up, though, I think there was another question you had that was interesting. So how do you evolve your brand to win? Right? And a lot of that is when you have discos or when you have launches that don't go as planned. I'll give you a couple of stories.

Aaron Branholt: One is a product that we started working with at the very beginning, right? Like a long time ago. Well, a few years ago and were on board, were selling their products. We were getting yeses from large, natural key players, right? Sprouts, fresh town, all the players. But we told them from day one, hey, your product priced way too high. And this sounds very basic, I understand, but the rest of the market is at 29 99. You're at need to change it. And they said, yeah, we'll see. We have it all figured out. We go into a Whole Foods market meeting, says, this is awesome, your product is killer, your mission is great. Put this in a 29 99 tub and I will buy it. And they were like, of course we want to do that.

Aaron Branholt: So anyway, long story short, this is like what these retailers are really going to be looking for. And it's also going to ensure not only can we get the product in, but can it get off the shelf, right? So, like thinking two steps ahead of, I can get it in, I can sell the story, I have a cool mission, I have a great product. How are you going to get it off the shelf, right? And that comes down to all the, I'm not a marketing guy, but the five P's or whatever, right? It's pricing, it's so on and so forth. But yeah, that's one instance where we said, hey, make a small tweak, let's make a few different skus that are a different size that hit a specific price point and it ended up being very successful.

Daniel Scharff: Right?

Aaron Branholt: Got it. Yeah.

Daniel Scharff: So pricing, promotions, placement, packaging, hopefully the placement often is up to the buyer. So that's usually, that probably would be my go to if we're going to get kicked off, is to complain about the placement, the position and how many facings we got to try to save that one. But who knows how often that's successful. Aaron, this has been super interesting. I'm wondering if you want to shout out maybe any of the brands that you work with as like, hey, here's a perfect example of a brand we can just absolutely crush. They're set up the right way for us and we can come in and just absolutely accelerate their growth.

Aaron Branholt: No doubt. So you're saying like a couple of successes we've had, or are you saying just in general? Okay, yeah. I mean, for starters, shout out Paul. At mean, that one was great timing, obviously for him, we helped him, but really it was for. Right. Like it was perfect timing. So that's an awesome brand. That's in know rocket ship going to outer sphere. Right. And then Dr. Kellyanne is a big brand that we have in our portfolio today. So it's a bone broth brand that we launched into retail, really February 2021, and they have been on a rocket ship. They're getting into every door and they're selling off the shelf. So that has been incredible fun. Shout out to Emily at little Buck with her for a while now, and she can tell you her founder story, if she hasn't already.

Aaron Branholt: She's had a crazy roller coaster ride, but we're launching in old foods in a month or two nationally and we're super excited about that. Obviously, sort of the holy grail that most of these founders are looking for. But we've picked up a lot of major key retailers, a lot of conventional retailers along the way that are a little more premium. So, yeah, so those are just a couple, to name a few.

Daniel Scharff: Yeah, that's awesome. Those are great. And Paul especially has been so helpful to our community, just sharing a lot of his lessons along the way about fundraising. And, man, he knows a lot about sales. I did a webinar with him recently and was just really blown away by, I think, not just his ability to do it and working with you guys know, just obviously getting tons of distribution, but I think also just how thoughtfully he thinks about sales in general in the early and later stages of a brand. I learned a lot from him. And yes, we did actually just manage to get Emily on the podcast as well. We'll have an episode dropping, talking all about little bucks and her story and even revealing the new flavor that they're launching in January. So I'm really excited about that.

Daniel Scharff: It's a great product with a really cool story and mission to just get Buckwheat out there in general. So Aaron, I just want to thank you again. I think this has been a super interesting episode. I definitely learned a lot from you. So thank you for sharing your incredible journey and shedding light on the strategies that help brands drive success and the ones working with you as well. So just before we go, anything else that you want to mention? Any calls to action or any ways for brands to connect with you?

Aaron Branholt: Yeah, so I'll start with connect with me. You can hit me up LinkedIn or you can send me an email. Aaron@cultivatecpg.com or shoot me a text. 847-722-8215 I'm here to chat. So is Tommy and our whole gang. I would say call to action is focus on key anchor accounts. That's what cultivate does. We are, I would say, hyper focused on opening key retailers with key warehouses. So that's what I would do that's going to move the needle and bring in real money for you and set yourself up to really succeed long term, build the foundation.

Daniel Scharff: All right, perfect. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of this knowledge with the community and really excited to see you at some of our future events. Hopefully our Expo west alley rally for anybody out there who doesn't know about it is a 1000 person bowling party that we throw at Expo west at Bolero nearby and there are lots of cool backpack brands who are demoing there, often for the first time, competing to win a booth at next year's expo. So hopefully we will see you there. Aaron. Yes, just lots of the brands from the community.

Aaron Branholt: Looking forward to it. Daniel, really appreciate you having me on and yeah, we'll see you in Anaheim in a couple months. All right.

Daniel Scharff: And props to you for dropping your phone number directly on the podcast. I think that's the first time somebody's done it, but it's very helpful. So thank you.

Aaron Branholt: Yeah, we'll talk soon. I really appreciate it, Daniel.

Daniel Scharff: All right, thank you. All right, everybody. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed the podcast today, it would really help us out if you can leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. I am Daniel Sharf. I'm the host and founder of startup CPG. Please feel free to reach out or add me on LinkedIn if you're a potential sponsor that would like to appear on the podcast. Please email partnerships@startupcpg.com and reminder to all of you out there, we would love to have you join the community. You can sign up at our website, startupcpg.com to learn about our webinars, events and Slack channel. If you enjoyed today's music, you can check out my band it's the super fantastics on Spotify music. On behalf of the entire startup CPG team, thank you so much for listening and your support.

Daniel Scharff: See you next time.