The Startup CPG Podcast

Jason Murrel
We absolutely 100% have been prioritizing regenerative organic submission. So anytime that a brand even really has a conversation revolving around regenerative organic and utilizing resources to support regenerative organic farming and I procurement, they're getting to the front of the line. That's just the reality of it and we're placing a huge priority on it.

00:34
Daniel Scharff
What's up CPG friends, I am so excited. We finally got Jason Morell, the director of grocery at Jimbo's. Jimbo's is an absolutely legendary retailer in SoCal, largely setting the standard for ingredients and social responsibility and influencing so many other players in the industry. On top of that, the Jimbo's team are just cool people. Today's episode goes into the Jimbo's ethos, the identity of their shoppers, how they're orienting toward regenerative, and of course, how they source and partner with brands. Let's start the show. Welcome everybody. I'm here with Jason Morel. Jason is the director of groceries for Jimbo's, which is the premier organic and natural foods retailer in San Diego. Jimbo's prides itself on strict ingredient standards that are ever evolving and becoming increasingly strict. I as higher quality products continue to raise the bar for new entries in each category.

01:29
Daniel Scharff
Jimbo's focuses on sustainability initiatives and encompasses a culture that takes into account how critical a role we all play with the future of our planet and the need to not just be sustainable, but to regenerate our planet. Jason, my friend, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm super interested if you can just maybe take us through your whole career, starting all the way back.

01:50
Jason Murrel
That was a long time ago, man. But yeah, I guess it started in grocery retail. Geez, when I was 16 years old. So it was like three and a half million years ago.

02:00
Daniel Scharff
Were you bagging groceries? What were you doing?

02:02
Jason Murrel
I was in charge. I ripped up all the cardboard from the night crew. So I'd walk in and there'd be like this massive sea of cardboard. You couldn't even see the floors. And 16 years old, just bailing cardboard for, I don't know, about 6 hours on, I think I was only Saturday and Sunday, you know, still in high school and stuff. But I kind of came up through that. It was a lot of fun. It was more conventional retailer, but just kind of worked my way up through the ranks there and then moved out to San Diego to go to SDSU. And that's when I started working. It was Henry's at the time.

02:35
Jason Murrel
Started working at Henry's as a cashier and then put in about 15 years with Henry's and sprouts, kind of again working my way up through the positions, up to store manager role, and then last sprouts, about going on eight years now with Jimbo. So started with Jimbo's as a store manager at the Del Mar location and worked at that location, shut that one down, opened up the new Carmel Valley location, which is our newest, our beautiful new store that we have in Carmel Valley. And about four years ago, it transitioned into the perishable buyer role at Jimbo's. And then from there, you know, worked into the director of grocery role, which I've been in for the past two years. So only about four years on the buying side, but definitely learning a lot.

03:23
Jason Murrel
Still, I just really appreciate the opportunity to work for a retailer that is so connected to the industry and to the communities.

03:32
Daniel Scharff
Yes, Jimbo's is legendary, man. I feel like I heard of it even before I was, you know, getting into CPG is just, you know, one of the standard setters and kind of tastemaker retailers in the country. I also just have to put a personal tidbit in here that I am also a cardboard box destroying expert. When I worked at Domino's in college, we would have to break down all the cardboard boxes, and I felt like I learned the life hack, which is you can do it with your feet. Like, if you put your foot one part of the box and then just step on the other part. I was just ripping through those boxes. I was, like, in the next century of box technology, just using my feet there so I could always get out a little bit earlier. But, man, it's hard work.

04:13
Daniel Scharff
So a lot of respect to you. And what was it like kind of growing up in the industry? Did you have a goal specifically to kind of, like, be able to lead the stores and then get on the buying teams, or were you just kind of, like, taking it one day at a time and enjoying the work?

04:28
Jason Murrel
Yeah, I think kind of the mission started when I was with Henry's and sprouts, and really I wanted to lead a team. I went to San Diego State and graduated from there with a liberal studies degree, where I wanted to utilize that degree to teach kids k through eight. So that was kind of my dream, was to be a teacher. And kind of, as I spent more and more time in the retail atmosphere, I learned that there are opportunities to kind of apply that same desire to teach and mentor staff members at a retail level and be able to utilize that passion that I have for teaching, training, coaching, and apply it in a different manner. So I didn't even realize that I was on my way to doing that until I was halfway there.

05:11
Jason Murrel
So I was really passionate about being a leader and wanting to lead a team, lead a store and be successful. And I think that's where a lot of my desire came from, was kind of redirecting that kind of hopefulness to be a teacher and applying it in the atmosphere that I was in. And in all transparency, I mean, I hate to say it, but teachers are probably the most underpaid people out there, period. And, you know, I kind of learned really quickly as I started to have a family that, you know, it was a lot more sustainable for me and my family for me to, you know, kind of pursue my interests in the retail world. And as I grew with Jimbo's and they gave me kind of an opportunity to learn and grow about another side of the industry.

05:52
Jason Murrel
Just become really just crazy interested every single day about learning and diving into new opportunities. And I, it's crazy how much you learn when you listen. So I really appreciate the opportunity of being here at Jumbo's and all the vendor partners that we have that teach us stuff literally every day.

06:10
Daniel Scharff
That's awesome, man. And it resonates a lot with me. I love teaching. I always have. I wonder what it is in you that makes you love doing that kind of work so much. I know. For me, I just get excited about whatever I'm doing. Like, if I learn a new shortcut on excel, the first thing I want to do is tell somebody else about it and how cool it is and how much time it saved me. Is it kind of like that for you, or do you have a different drive for what makes you like teaching and mentoring?

06:36
Jason Murrel
Yeah, I think that's it. You hit the nail on the head. It's like just wanting to be able to just share and learn from each other. And I think that's what's so cool about working in this retail environment is like you touch bases with so many different people across so many different walks of life, and they all just have this crazy perspective that they can share with you. And you kind of bundle all that up and, you know, go through life with being able to not necessarily live through their experiences, but what they've shared with you and being able to apply that, I think it's just really fun. And being a contributor to that is very rewarding in my opinion.

07:10
Daniel Scharff
I love it, man. And that, honestly, is the whole foundation for our startup CPG community is that people actually like to help. And, you know, it's funny, I talked to some people about it in the Slack channel, and, like, you're such a helpful contributor. You're always just answering questions. You have nothing to gain from it. Like, why do you do it? Like, it's just fun. It's fun to help people with stuff that you know, it's fun to feel smart and, like, you know all the answers. Yeah, and it is. It's just. It's. Yeah, it's just fun. And I think for me, I feel like I have a kind of weird bone where I get just, like, an energy burst anytime I feel like I help someone, and it's really valuable, it, like, makes. I'm like, oh, that's great. They liked it.

07:50
Daniel Scharff
So, you know, we don't need to dig into the psychology of why I'm that way, but I really do enjoy it. And I think a lot of people are like that for sure.

07:58
Jason Murrel
I think definitely I agree with you, and it's nice to be in a place influential, and you can see kind of the fruits of that contribution every day, so. And, yeah, it sounds corny, but use that opportunity to like better other people and to give them opportunities that maybe they didn't otherwise have. So it's pretty cool.

08:16
Daniel Scharff
I love it, man. Great. Well, so I guess just to get a little bit closer back to Jimbo's, which is an incredible platform from which you'll be able to help a lot of people, can you just tell me a little bit more about, like, what is Jimbo's? Everyone's kind of heard of it spoken in whispers or in shouts. What is it? Yeah, and also, I would love to just know a little bit more about the team there, like, who does what.

08:40
Jason Murrel
Yeah, so, I mean, kind of a little bit about the ethos and maybe, you know, just letting you kind of in on General Jimbo's is really just about making sure that we're nourishing the community through products that. That we're hand selecting. And those products, we're striving to have them reflect the goodness that we want to see out there. And we place a huge emphasis on supporting local businesses, you know, really focusing a lot on regenerative organic farming practices and encouraging high levels of sustainability, not just within our stores, but in partnering with the brands that we choose to support. So, you know, there's a large cultural component that kind of we look for with the brands that we partner with, and we want to make sure that the partnership that we create, that we're aligned and that we're all aiming for the same thing.

09:29
Jason Murrel
So. Sounds corny, but it's definitely the reality of what we do every day. And it's a consideration when anytime we're looking at products or thinking about bringing on someone, you know, into the Jimbos community.

09:41
Daniel Scharff
And I know for the ingredient standards, as far as I know, Jimbo's has the strictest ones. And, you know, when I, at my previous company, that is the list that we use when were formulating the product. Just as, I mean, probably like, I don't know. I think a lot of times people think that entrepreneurs at companies, like, know everything about all the ingredients on day one when they start, but they don't like you. I think more often, like, you know, you want to do something in the CPG space and you have a product concept or an idea or a brand that you want to launch. And then you go to a formulator who helps you make it, and you're not so well educated on what all the different things are in the product.

10:17
Daniel Scharff
So that list actually was just super helpful for us to then take to the formulator and say, okay, we don't know everything, but Jimbo's does. And here are the things that they're saying right now are not good for people, so let's avoid those. And as you mentioned, it is evolving. So you can have something that is okay now. And then some new research comes out for sure. And then I know for you guys, though, it's not just about the ingredients as well, because I know I've seen examples of even kind of well known brands getting taken off your shelves because of hiring practices or labor practices or stuff that's not sustainable. So it seems like you guys definitely put your money where your mouth is on shelves.

10:54
Jason Murrel
It's a lot to weed through, honestly. It's literally come up almost every day where we get some information. Oftentimes it's shared by the customers who have a really deep concern for those, you know, attributes of a brand or a company. And, you know, I think it's difficult to always take sides and be 100% positive that you're taking the right side just because there's two sides to it, literally or oftentimes more. And so we try to take all that stuff into consideration and be reasonable about at the same time. And your customers, every customer is pretty savvy. You know, they know what they want. And one of the good things about Jimbo's is that, like, we're not at the point where we're just ignoring that feedback, we have an opportunity to kind of dig into it and spend some time and understand it.

11:41
Jason Murrel
And, you know, are we always going to make the right decision for every single person? Absolutely not. But make decisions that align with who we are and what our aim is.

11:52
Daniel Scharff
Okay, so, Jason, for a consumer walking into Jimbo's for the first time, what does it feel like? Because you've talked about shoppers in a way where it sounds like they have a real identity as Jimbo's shoppers and the kind of stuff that you guys provide. So in terms of the ambiance of the store and the layout, just what's the experience going to be like?

12:11
Jason Murrel
Yeah, sure. So, you know, we have four stores in San Diego, one in Karma Valley, one in Carlsbad, one in Escondido, and one in four s ranch. And then there's two more coming in the next few years. So we're pretty stoked about that. And I think one of the cool things is each of the stores kind of mimics the community vibe. So, you know, you have like, a beachy type vibe at Carlsbad. There's like a real busy, kind of open airy vibe at Carmel Valley. So you walk in and it feels like the community that you're in. And I think that's an element that, you know, we work really hard.

12:44
Jason Murrel
Kind of identifying and kind of sustaining is just being really connected to the community and echoing what it means to be part of the community and the way that we lay out our stores and the products that we carry. You know, our customers, super savvy, obviously, they find a lot of value in the products that we carry and the quality that it brings to our food supply chain and the sustainability of that. So I think it's a customer that is very educated on the products and the importance of putting quality products into your body and the value of that. And oftentimes that doesn't mean that we're going to have the cheapest prices or I, we're going to have every single product that a customer wants. But when you come in and you shop our stores, those items are curated. It's a bespoke shopping experience.

13:34
Jason Murrel
And we strive every day to kind of be representing products to our customers that they're going to appreciate and that they're going to find a lot of value.

13:44
Daniel Scharff
And what's the importance of local for you and your shoppers?

13:48
Jason Murrel
Yeah, so we kind of see jumbos as an opportunity for local brands, up and coming brands. This is a springboard. I mean, if you can hit the requirements as far as our ingredient standards go, and we can come to an agreement on what the partnership is going to look like, you know, how we're going to promote, how we're going to demo, how we're going to come to market, this could be a great opportunity for up and coming brands to really have, you know, a large voice out there. I do feel like for four stores, we have a really strong voice and we strive to work with those local brands, and it's a point of pride for us. You know, we definitely appreciate the partnerships that we can forge with local brands and to help them and they help us.

14:28
Jason Murrel
It's a mutually beneficial experience, and we definitely value those local brands. And to be honest, I mean, we try our absolute best to kind of get them to the front of the line anytime that we have the opportunity.

14:40
Daniel Scharff
I know it is a big opportunity. You mentioned it's just four stores, but I know they do a lot of volume, and they also are a huge point of validation for a brand. I mean, in addition to the opportunity to get in front of some incredibly high value consumers, like really thoughtful consumers that can be very powerful advocates. It is a huge stamp of approval. When you're talking to other retailers, and you can say, Jimbo's carries us, it means you're pretty much good on ingredients. They don't have to worry about that or look into it because Jimbo's already did the hard job. And remind me, what distributors do you guys work with?

15:15
Jason Murrel
We work with quite a few. I mean, we have the big ones, ke unify, but we also work with some other smaller distributors. We've got Seacoast, Whitestone, high touch, foundation. There's a lot of, some of the smaller distributors that we strive really hard to maintain partnerships with because they honestly have access to things that just at any given point in time, the larger distributors just don't have access to. It's just not that time yet for the big guys. There's nothing wrong with that. We actually really appreciate the variety that comes to us from some of the smaller distributors. And then we do a lot of direct vendor, you know, distribution.

15:52
Jason Murrel
We've kind of, over the past year or so, kind of created that more of like a special scenario type relationship because it's gotten to the point now where it's like, starting to become not as easily manageable by our store staff. If you think, you know, you're talking with some of the direct vendors, say you bring in five skus. Those five skus have to be ordered entirely separately than the thousands of skus that they're ordering through the bigger distributors or even some of the smaller local distributors. So there's a lot of time that's invested in that, which is really important to us, but it also has to be manageable and sustainable. So there's a point where we kind of have to say, you know what?

16:31
Jason Murrel
No, we're going to have to wait it out until you get into XYZ and then kind of give recommendations on how we can get there together. There are some special circumstances where, you know, a brand is now, like, we may be their very first retailer, and that might present an opportunity for us to partner directly.

16:49
Daniel Scharff
That makes a lot of sense. I know why early brands would love it, especially if they don't have the budget or distribution yet to get set up with one of those big guys. But I also definitely understand it from your standpoint, because, you know, if we're the in there in the stores, that's not just ordering from us, but then also, like, all right, we're gonna be in there kind of jockeying for position on shelves. We're gonna be talking to the store manager. We're gonna be trying to sneak some scan reports from that. Like, we're gonna just be complicating everyone's lives.

17:18
Jason Murrel
Yeah. And I mean, when you have that on, like, a manageable level, like, it's a really, like, intimate partnership, that it brings a ton of value on both sides. And at the same time, like, once you get to a certain point, it's like, okay, well, there's a diminishing return for each of those smaller brands that we've made that commitment to in the past. And unfortunately, when you get to so many, your resources are only what they are, and you have to, you know, realistically trim back on, you know, what you're able to commit to each of those brands and lessening that partnership, I guess.

17:48
Daniel Scharff
How many skus do you guys have in a typical store? I know there are different sizes, broad range.

17:53
Jason Murrel
That is the worst question you could have asked me. How many skus, like, total store or can I guess?

18:00
Daniel Scharff
I can guess if you want. Okay.

18:02
Jason Murrel
Your guess is probably better than mine at this point.

18:05
Daniel Scharff
My guess is 13,200. 213 thousand.

18:14
Jason Murrel
Let me see. I actually can run something real quick. Give me, like, a few minutes, and I'll tell you. I'll come back and I'll tell you exactly how many.

18:21
Daniel Scharff
If I get it right, I want to win, like, a goldfish or something.

18:23
Jason Murrel
Okay, deal?

18:24
Daniel Scharff
Yeah. Okay.

18:26
Jason Murrel
So you say that my son won a goldfish at the fair. He didn't actually win it. He played the game enough times and they just gave it to him. They're like, we feel sad for these guys. That was last year. It wasn't this year. It was last year. And that goldfish is still kicking.

18:40
Daniel Scharff
Oh, good for the goldfish. Usually the story does not end so good for those goldfish.

18:44
Jason Murrel
That's a very surprising story, for sure.

18:49
Daniel Scharff
Okay, cool. So one thing I was just curious about is your overall team at Jimbo is like, I know you. I know Billy on your team also, obviously, everyone knows who Jimbo is. Who are the other people that are involved in, you know, let's say the kind of buying and sourcing operations.

19:07
Jason Murrel
So, I mean, we have our store staff. Our store staff is comprised of, you know, the operations manager, so grocery manager, assistant grocery managers. There's dairy buyers for each store. We're talking about bulk buyers, hopefully in the next, you know, few months, hopefully just to kind of operationally manage some of the challenges and stuff that come up specifically to that department. But I, you know, from there we have Sarah, who is our buyer's assistant, who, I tell you what, that title does not do her justice. I'm telling you, she is incredible managing everything from new item forms to website submissions or new products and just as many administrative tasks as you can possibly throw at her.

19:47
Jason Murrel
And at the same time, she's like, managing a lot of the relationships that we're having with vendors and has just been an awesome point of contact, really, for not just for each of the brands, but just, you know, playing that role so well. Sarah. Sarah's an awesome addition to our team. She's been here just about a year or so. And then we have Colin Collins, our trainer and merchandiser. So he's largely in charge of implementing new products into the shelf, maintaining planograms and, you know, cutting in new products, but also, you know, really important role of his is training and coaching the staff and really getting them on board with program and increasing velocity on products and just overall education, which we feel is just like a really critical component to what we do. And then obviously, you mentioned Billy.

20:36
Jason Murrel
Billy's kind of my right hand man, and we pretty much approach and attack everything together. There's honestly probably nothing that I do that he can't do. And we've kind of had that relationship. I've worked with Billy for actually just as long as Colin. We used to work at sprouts together, actually. So, you know, Billy is just he pretty much, he does it all. And from managing brands and managing communication and promo planning and ad planning, and then new item integration, planogram assists, he's all over the place. And it's really awesome having a part of the team's work lean on him and bounce things off of him, get his feedback and input, and he's actually getting married in two days, so.

21:19
Daniel Scharff
Oh, amazing. All right, congrats, Billy. And then I also, I remember meeting your social media coordinator for Jimbo's at one point, who I'm a big fan of. I didn't know him before, but I just, I do like the Jimbo's instagram account. There's some good stuff on there.

21:33
Jason Murrel
Yeah, he does a great job. Tommy, in marketing, the whole marketing team is just. They're phenomenal. I don't know how they come up with some of the stuff they do. Probably not the creative type, but those guys, they wow us every day. And it's awesome because they're so accessible, too, to brands. Like, there's never been a situation where brand has reached out to them and been shut down in any way, shape, or form. In fact, it's just, it becomes like a whole brand new partnership with a whole other branch. And the way they attack social media and just the demos and they're just awesome partners to coordinate with.

22:05
Daniel Scharff
That's awesome. Maybe hot tip for some brands listening, if you're in Jimbo's, maybe DM, their social media team.

22:11
Jason Murrel
Absolutely.

22:12
Daniel Scharff
That's awesome. You mentioned bulk before. Bulk foods.

22:16
Jason Murrel
Yeah.

22:16
Daniel Scharff
So are you. I mean, I've heard for a lot of people actually trying to, I don't know if I want to say professionalize that more, just kind of get it more up and running. Are you actually expanding your bulk food section or just trying to manage it better?

22:29
Jason Murrel
I think at this point, I'll be honest. I mean, from COVID there was definitely a withdrawal. Customers, understandably so, kind of lost interest in kind of like that. There's a health component, a perceived health component that was an issue. So I don't want to say that's, like, dictating how we're moving forward, but the reality is that it's really the customer interaction with that department in particular. It's been challenging. And I think one area that we can be more successful in an area of opportunity is to really just push as hard as we can to really communicate to customers that, you know what, there's a ton of value in this department. The quality is outstanding. We have an all organic wealth department. So everything in that set is 100% organic.

23:16
Jason Murrel
And where customers have kind of leaned on the pre packaged product, you know, there's a lot of labor, packaging. There's this time component where, you know, if they were, if customers were to utilize those bulk bins more often, it would not just create a better value for our customers, but kind of help us with some of the resource challenges that we have with staff at store level. So to me, kind of implementing a bit more structure and organization in that department. I think it'd be a great opportunity for us to really speak to customers on this department that we just haven't necessarily focused on coming out of.

23:55
Daniel Scharff
COVID I like it. I mean, I like to think about it as much as all of us in CBG probably want people to buy our own cpgs, but I mean, the bulk is just such a really interesting space. I know a lot of the corporate headquarters are focused on bulk because they want to try to eliminate as much single use plastic as they can. And bulk, obviously you can get a good value, and if it's a great product, you know, why not? But yeah, I did. I mean, obviously from COVID Yeah, a lot of people, they don't want to be touching the same utensils other people are using, but it seems like it's come back in a pretty serious way now. So I'll be really interested to see how that evolves.

24:29
Daniel Scharff
And then also for me, what cpgs start focusing on bulk more because we haven't seen a lot of that. But I know with like Google's plastic free initiative, there were some brands that came up with new bulk skus that got in there.

24:44
Jason Murrel
So pretty exciting partner with Doctor Bronner Health and body care department. And they kind of pioneered this thought behind having customers come in and replenish these products that they're typically grabbing bottle after bottle over time. And hey, why not reutilize that? Why not be more sustainable in this process and then also simultaneously offer great value to our customers. So that's really going to be part of kind of our re engagement in the bulk areas. Like, how do we approach this sustainable packaging? And, you know, we don't want to be contributing to excess plastic use and one time use plastics, absolutely the worst contributor to that issue. And we can find a way to reutilize containers and cut down on that plastic use. That's the golden ticket right there as far as we're concerned.

25:34
Jason Murrel
And, you know, we place a lot of value on these sustainability initiatives and it's something we're definitely going to be driving for. And I think that's one of the cool things about Jimbo's, is we've really tried to pioneer some of those processes and implement them in ways that are positively impactful.

25:51
Daniel Scharff
Makes sense and just along that sustainability line, can you tell me a little bit more about regenerative? I think for a lot of people, they're still wrapping their heads around what regenerative actually is. But it seems like you guys are one of the retailers leading the charge on this to try to bring it to the forefront. So how are you thinking about it? What kind of actions are you guys taking?

26:11
Jason Murrel
Yeah, I'll tell you, we absolutely 100% have been prioritizing regenerative organic submission. So anytime that a brand even really has a conversation revolving around regenerative organic and utilizing resources to support regenerative organic farming and procurement, they're getting to the front of the line. That's just the reality of it and we're placing a huge priority on it. I can tell you that we just partnered with the first beverage that's regenerative organic certified recoup, which is a brand new out here. We were a first retailer on the west coast to partner with them and we're just super excited to see these be a priority across retail and in categories that you typically wouldn't think that it would be impactful. It truly is. And as more and more brands prioritize it, they're getting to the front of the line. At Jimbo's, they just are.

27:05
Jason Murrel
And hopefully that will have brands that maybe were on the fence start to look to new ways to procure ingredients and to work with different distributors and co packers to prioritize it as well. Because if it means maybe getting into a few more retailers and doing the right thing, then it might make it a little bit of an easier transition for everyone.

27:26
Daniel Scharff
That's awesome. It's a really good reminder to think about because, yeah, I have talked to a couple different buyers who are really pushing for regenerative and I'm not seeing as many of the offerings yet. So, I mean, it's a big opportunity for brands. I think we saw it at expo, right? I mean, they were absolutely doing a lot of programming around regenerative and people were talking about it. I feel like the conversation is kind of dipped right now in between trade shows for me, I was like, how many years out is it before Regen is like front and center the biggest thing at Expo? It felt like three to five years at last time.

28:00
Jason Murrel
That's probably pretty right. But I think the more and more that we almost start demanding that it's going to be more prevalent. And I think that's the idea is like, you know, I don't know how far back you would have to go to even start talking about seeing a, every category having organic representation on the sets. And, you know, at this point, to be honest with you, every set, every single category and subcategory is, I would guess, 90% to 95% organic in our stores. And that's just been a drive for us to really focus on that and to bring kind of the best products forward. And as you do that, you know, it puts more pressure on brands who may not be organic to transition into organic. So hopefully this regenerative organic movement is going to be the same.

28:48
Jason Murrel
And I think it's not just a buzzword, it is where we need to be in order to have something ten years from now. Honestly, Trey?

28:57
Daniel Scharff
Yeah. I'll be really interested to see the consumer studies about how consumers learn about regenerative, how they feel about it. I mean, I watched the common ground documentary not so long ago, and one of the interesting parts of it was definitely just talking about the nutrient density of foods that are grown on regenerative farms. How different it is. Like, yeah, I mean, just for me to exaggerate it a little bit, basically, like, if it's grown without regenerative, it's kind of garbage. There's nothing good in there that you actually want. And then if it's regenerative, like, whoa, my gosh, it's a cornucopia of beautiful things inside of the thing that's grown that you want in your body. I mean, like, you know, documentaries always tell a pretty strong story, but, I mean, it seemed like there is a lot of really strong stuff in there.

29:41
Daniel Scharff
It made a lot of sense. And so if, as consumers start learning about that, they believe all of those things, I imagine they're going to be willing to pay a lot more for it. I mean, I'm sure, like, organic, it's going to cost all of us making products a lot more to make it comply and everything. But, man, it's going to be interesting, not just with to see what brands come out and are moving towards regenerative, but I think also around the certification standpoint, at least from my understanding, the certifications are not so clear yet.

30:09
Jason Murrel
No, no, they're not. And, you know, kind of as we have been diving into this, we're seeing, I'm not trying to call any certifications or anything like that and their practices, but there's definitely gray area out there. And our hope is that it won't become this moniker like natural has, where natural can kind of be applied to so many different products that it kind of becomes diluted to the point where it doesn't have the meaning and the impact that it should. You know, there are some certifications out there that are extremely vague and, you know, our job is to kind of weed through that and, you know, obviously the most, you know, the strictest, and there's different levels to it. But we've been utilizing the regenerative organic certification rock as kind of our main go to.

31:00
Jason Murrel
And it's been really cool seeing the submissions of products that have that certification. But I think it's also important at this stage to just have dialogue with brands like, you know, it's a journey. Not everyone can be there right this minute, right now, and, you know, what is your mission? What does your journey look like? Is it five years from now you want to obtain certification? Is it two years from now? Where are you at? What are you doing to kind of help that journey along? And I think it's really important for us to have that dialogue with brands and about their products and understand where they're at on their journey, because it's just like sustainability. Like, we can't all tomorrow just say we're no longer using plastic.

31:42
Jason Murrel
You know, maybe we have a goal, and five years from now we want to be in a really sustainable agave container or whatever it is, and then what can we do to get to that point? Not everyone can be at the finish line when you first talk to them. That's the reality of it. So just understanding, like, where they're at on their journey and how we can partner together to help get each other there, that's amazing.

32:03
Daniel Scharff
And it sounds like you guys are pretty understanding about it and just kind of looking to do the right thing, but yes. Like, it's not a perfect system yet. And are there any categories that you're especially interested in seeing some regenerative offerings right now? Like, hey, I wish we could get something good for this part of the store. We're just not seeing it yet. Like, if there's somebody out there with this kind of a rock product.

32:26
Jason Murrel
It's funny because a few months ago I would have said beverages because there's nothing. There was nothing. And to see that into a category that has had zero entries, that was mind blowing to me, to be honest, because it came out of nowhere and were really really excited to partner with them and starting to see baking. A lot of baking products with Regen, anything flour based has been. There's been quite a few submissions in pastas and so forth. And then you have brands like Alex Ice cream that partners with Alexandra Farms using regenerative dairy. I'd love to see more frozen products, honestly. And Alex is an incredible brand. Like, I don't know if you've ever tried their ice cream, but it's insane. And they just came out with a bunch of new flavors, too. It is like, super clean and insanely delicious.

33:12
Jason Murrel
And then regen on top of it. They partner with Alexandria Farm.

33:16
Daniel Scharff
That does sound amazing. Wow. What's your jason? Maybe I just found out one of them, but what's your guilty pleasure food?

33:25
Jason Murrel
I've been on this thing for the past few months where I've, like, cut out dairy and stuff, but it would be Alex ice cream for sure. We just branded on a big sale. We had a buy one, get one free, and I managed to stay away from it. But I did bring two home that my wife absolutely loves. So there's like this. It's like a lemon blueberry. I could go on forever about this brand, but it's just really cool to see innovation in this setting, this natural retailer where they're meeting customers to, like. I mean, I hate to say it, but the reality is like, most customers really recognize Ben and Jerry's, right? Like, everyone knows Ben and Jerry's. But when you go into Jimbo's, our Ben and Jerry's is like regenerative, organic.

34:07
Jason Murrel
It's, you know, all organic ingredients, and you don't have to give up the taste. You know, oftentimes it's more nourishing. And, you know, the a two milk that he uses is better on people's stomachs that can't handle regular dairy products. So again, I mean, obviously that's one brand that we're super stoked on. And there's so many more that are just like that. But, you know, these are brands that are super passionate about what they do, and they just, they're focused on bringing the very best customers. So that's cool.

34:37
Daniel Scharff
All right. Amazing. So, all right. To just get to some of the usual questions that I know brands would always want to hear from you about. So what is the sourcing and selection process like? I know you mentioned trade shows before, but how are people getting on your radar or Billy or how are they getting the chance?

34:54
Jason Murrel
Yeah, so we have an online portal. So jimbos.com, comma, we have a vendor portal where you can submit products. Submit. There's a pretty healthy questionnaire that you kind of have to work through. A lot of, a lot of yeses and nos that kind of have to be gone through and that relates directly to our ingredient standards. And I can tell you that's like step one of the ingredient standards check. But that's one opportunity to kind of, like, have your product kind of reviewed. We utilize the broker networks a lot. From an efficiency standpoint, it's really awesome for us to work with brokers because they're presenting multiple brands to us at an opportunity to kind of really quickly see what's out there, what's hot, what's new, and these brands, these broker networks are representing these brands in ways that, you know, are really quick.

35:45
Jason Murrel
I mean, honestly, that's the reality of it is it's just super efficient for us. So that's, you know, another one, distributors, oftentimes, some of the smaller distributors, they'll bring products to the table and say, hey, this aligns with what your standards are, and I'm going to start carrying it. So, you know, that's one way. And really, you know, the San Diego community is just, it's booming with all of these amazing brands that are just coming out of the woodwork and we're getting opportunities to meet with them. And, you know, we support San Diego. And this networking that takes place in the community is, it's crazy because you hear about things before they're even packaged. You know, I got this idea and this is what I want to do with it, and this is where I want to go with it.

36:31
Jason Murrel
And it's just, it's a lot of fun being part of the San Diego network and getting to, you know, see these up and coming brands and giving them an opportunity to be successful. And, you know, at the end of the day, yes, we are business and it's our, you know, our duty to, you know, sell product and profit. But, you know, the fun part is being able to watch brands grow and be successful and, you know, positively impact the community that they belong in.

37:00
Daniel Scharff
Yeah, I've been to some of the San Diego CPG networking events, and I have to say there is a San Diego vibe where people are, like, wanting to support people from San Diego and the overall community. I would say it's a little bit different here in LA. I think in LA, everyone's pretty focused on what they're doing, and it's cool stuff and everybody likes to hear about people being successful, but I wouldn't say people are clamoring just to support people because they live in LA, you know, it doesn't have that kind of tight mesh.

37:30
Jason Murrel
I gotcha. Yeah, yeah, makes sense.

37:33
Daniel Scharff
I mean, a lot of opportunity here. Maybe that's part of it, is just, you know, it's so disparate. There's so much competition, so many options, but that's pretty cool to hear. And so you mentioned brokers, distributors. Are there any brokers you feel like do a really good job with you guys that, you know, pay a lot of attention to you, they're constantly bringing you new stuff just to drop a couple for brands to know about?

37:54
Jason Murrel
Yeah, I mean, I have a long list, but, yeah, I think Yin Yang does a great job. They have a personal touch and they really go out of their way to make sure that brands are represented in a way that's appealing to retailers. Presence has also done a great job with us. Kind of have like a tag team duo really doing an awesome job of bringing great new products to us. And, you know, surprisingly enough, the smaller distributors, I'll speak about foundation, because Foundation Foods is. They're not even in San Diego, but Lewis and his team have managed to create a standard of quality of products that is just above and beyond, realistically, anything else that we've seen. So they so perfectly align with us.

38:38
Jason Murrel
And he just does a fantastic job of representing brands that truly would be successful in our stores and in San Diego. And, you know, even I can't remember exactly where they're out of, but they just do a phenomenal job of sourcing and partnering with brands that are up and coming. Or maybe it's their very first shot and they've just done a really great job of bringing those great products to us. So huge shout out to Lewis and foundation foods.

39:05
Daniel Scharff
Awesome. Great. Thank you. And then when you're getting the pitch, let's say they get through the standards part, I mean, it sounds like you guys are foremost just very focused on the product attributes and ingredients characteristics. After that, is there anything you're really looking for? Are you looking for some proof of concept, some traction, some velocity data, people near you carrying them?

39:28
Jason Murrel
Yeah, there's a lot like, how successful are you in these retailers? Or maybe they don't have traction yet. Maybe they're just starting out. And I think obviously, part of the process is actually tasting the products. I think it's really important that brands get that outside feedback. If I were to make something and have my mom try it, pretty sure she'd say it's great. But if I asked a stranger or multiple strangers on the street, first and foremost, before we talk about the ingredients, before we talk about all this attributes, is like, is it good? Which sounds so simple and basic, but that's such a critical component, is like how fresh is it? How long does it stay fresh?

40:12
Jason Murrel
Understanding how the packaging and the marketing plays such a huge role in customers decision in picking up that product because it could have the best, absolute best ingredients on the planet and absolutely fall in line with, you know, have a cultural alignment with us. But if a customer doesn't pick it up, it doesn't sell. So you really rely on like word of mouth at that point which is super strong and has an impact, but you gotta get that customer to pick it up. So, and then to keep coming back for it is the other part. So that's where I, you know, that taste comes in.

40:46
Jason Murrel
People are going to keep coming back for something that at least in our realm, in grocery, you know, a vitamin I'm sure doesn't have to taste good necessarily, but for our products, you know, you got to keep them coming back, making sure they taste good. And, you know, from there, obviously it's something that's like a personal preference, the taste component. But I think if our team is like unanimously, oh, my gosh, I can't even finish this. You know, there's got to be a dialogue with the brand of like, hey, like any chance you guys are doing like a reformulation or like, maybe we didn't get the freshest product kind of thing and then just to be open to that feedback and that constructive criticism, I think it's important to have that dialogue and trust me, we've been proven wrong many times.

41:28
Jason Murrel
So it's not just us. You know, we're willing to take a chance. If there is, you know, a strong following on a product or the brand is just really energetic and wants to make sure that they're successful and has like a ton of involvement with demoing or marketing or promotional activity. You know, it's not just one pillar that we can, you know, focus on. It's got to be this whole, we got to look at the entire package. And, you know, as much as I want to say that I understand taste, I don't. There's plenty of things that I think don't taste good that another customer is going to absolutely love. So I kind of have to shelf that and be okay with, like, maybe it's not the right profile for me, but it could be great for somebody else.

42:15
Jason Murrel
So those are definite factors, I think as we kind of go through the review process and then as we get through that, you kind of look at the cult like where what are the ingredient standards for that category or subcategory? And is this brand or this product furthering that? Is it degrading the quality in that category or is it lifting it up? Is it going to be a point of differentiation for our customers? Or is it just going to blend in with all the other products that are on the shelf? So really working to uplift each of the categories, not just from reading standpoint, but from quality and freshness and packaging, sustainability and cultural standpoint, too.

42:56
Jason Murrel
So there's a lot of that we look at as we review products and we want to make sure that they're successful and that we're successful and that our customers are getting something that they've grown to kind of expect from triple.

43:09
Daniel Scharff
That makes sense. And I like the point about feedback also and hopefully being open to it. I think not everybody gets the chance to really get honest feedback from people who, you know, it's, I think, a mindset shift of, hey, here's my product. Don't you like it to actually just finding a few people who will be totally honest with you? And I feel like it can save you years on your business if somebody really gives that open feedback to you. And I will just tell brands out there also, like, if I try a product at a trade show, I'm just going to smile and see how good it is.

43:45
Daniel Scharff
But if you actually ask me, hey, I actually would like your real feedback on this, I will always give it, I'll never offer it, just kind of like proactively because that's not really my role in the industry, but I really do feel like it's important for brands to have somebody who will do that for them. And not that I know everything, but, you know, I have a pretty strong palate and have formulated products. So, yeah, I don't know, hopefully it sounds like if they can get that feedback from you, it would be very special. And I think when you, even at the early stage, I bet like if you're walking by somebody's trade show booth and they're like, hey, can I just get feedback from you? Like, maybe it's a little bit early. I bet you'll give it to them.

44:21
Jason Murrel
Oh, yeah, for sure. I think that's like, honestly, that's. I consider that one of my roles is to give that feedback and it doesn't mean, you know, that I would never expect it to be the end all, be all, you know, I think it's important to get that feedback from multiple channels, but, yeah, one more person giving feedback and, you know, I'm a customer too, and I think it's really important to kind of gauge what, you know, what that interaction is with the customer. What are the customers saying about it? And I think that's where, like, those demos really come into play. Like, a lot. Like, you're right. I think people aren't always going to be, like, 100% transparent when you're, like, right in front of them, face to face.

45:02
Jason Murrel
Like, I just put that product in my mouth and, like, maybe they're not going to give the absolute most 100% transparent opinion on it, but I think customers that have come in and they've shopped and they know what something else tastes like in that category, or, you know, they're stuck on whatever, you know, drink or whatever, pasta or whatever, and then they're trying yours, they're gonna tell you, they're gonna be like, I always buy this one. And to be honest with you, I'm not a huge fan. I think customers coming from not as like a peer level, but like, when you're in the store demoing and you're a customer and you're spending your money, you're a lot more apt to give, like, a really transparent opinion of it.

45:42
Jason Murrel
So taking that and, like, being okay with it and like, maybe even going back to the drawing board or making small tweaks and just listening to that customer base. I know. You know, when I think you look online and you go on Amazon or something like that and look at product reviews, like, everyone who has a problem with it, they're all going to leave the one star, the two star. But I think it's really important to understand that those ones that don't like it might be just as important or even more important going back and realizing, hey, maybe I should make a little bit of a change to appeal to the broader audience or you know what? They're right. I gotta fix this kind of situation. So. And it's not always like that.

46:24
Jason Murrel
Typically, by the time we see it, we're pretty stoked on it, but there are, every now and then there's an opportunity to kind of appeal to a larger audience.

46:32
Daniel Scharff
I agree. Okay, great. So, and then you mentioned demos for brands that wanna do well with you. You also talked about promos before. What's in social media, any, like, specific things you wanna see on promos or like, number of demos, that kind of stuff.

46:48
Jason Murrel
So we like to let the product kind of actually get set in the store. So there's been a lot of brands who definitely are like, real gung ho about getting in there and starting demos and doing promotions. We're a small company and we have, you know, resources maybe that are smaller or more limited than some of the larger retailers, but we rely entirely on our merchandising team to implement products into the shelf. So, you know, that initial fill comes in. It takes us time, you know, a few days to get it onto the shelf. We have four stores, so we're physically traveling to each of those stores and setting that product. So just making sure that there's a home for it that makes sense and that customers are going to be drawn to that product in that particular set.

47:31
Jason Murrel
And then, you know, then we can start the demos once we got things established. And I think, you know, really focusing efforts on doing those chunks of time where you have a lot of customer interaction, a lot of opportunity touch as many customers as possible and get their product into their mouths and getting that feedback, that one one feedback. And we can provide velocities and stuff during that timeframe to help kind of judge how successful a demo was. But I think the real success of those demos comes quite a bit after. That's when customers have had an opportunity like, oh, is that Jimbo's? And I tried this new item and interaction with the founder, and then all of a sudden, word of mouth just takes hold. That's when we want to focus on making sure that we're at the right price point with promos.

48:17
Jason Murrel
So for us, you know, a competing promotional discount, a typical discount is 20% or more. If we can hit the 30, pretty happy. And then anything more than that is really probably going to set you up as being one of the lower price points on the shelf at that time, which if you can dig deeper than 30%, you know, there's a very high chance that you're going to be very successful for that promotional period. It's a big ask. Going above that 30%, it really does increase velocity substantially. It does set them up typically to be the lowest price point, which you're hitting multiple customers at that time. You're hitting a customer who's focused on value, which is represented by what the sale price is.

49:01
Jason Murrel
So they're doing that quick math in their head, or they're looking at that savings in the ad and they're making that decision. But you're also approaching that customer that's really conscious of making sure that it's organic or regenerative, capturing that customer that always comes in and buys your product and they're going to buy more because it's on sale. So, you know, I think 20% is really kind of where we've set our standard at. And then from there, it really does incrementally create opportunity for the brands to increase velocity.

49:33
Daniel Scharff
And like 16 weeks or something on promo, then around 20% would be a solid plan.

49:39
Jason Murrel
Yeah, ideally we're at 16 weeks. Yeah. Once a quarter, you know, there are brands, local brands, in fact, that we have, like, really good relationships with that increase it from there. Really. I think the minimum is going to be that once a quarter. And, I mean, you could play with that however you need to, whatever makes sense. Like during the summer months, doing two out of the three and kind of shifting things around. But we do trust the brands to kind of, like, do their homework on that part and give them the opportunity to promote as they need. But, yeah, I mean, one of the good things about Jimbo is we don't hold anything back. So if you're giving us 20%, we're giving the customers 20%.

50:13
Daniel Scharff
So great.

50:14
Jason Murrel
Pass on that promo as deeply as we possibly can and work to find a price point that's meaningful for our customers and the brand.

50:22
Daniel Scharff
I love it, Jason. I mean, it just really sounds overall like Jimbo's is working just to try to be a good partner and solution for the shoppers and the food ecosystem as a whole and just kind of like make the whole thing work and the partnership between brands and stores and people and improving the food system at the same time while having a business that's going to last for a long time. And congrats on celebrating your 40 years this year. Jimbo's from 1984 to 2024. So, Jason, thank you so much for all these insights. This has been really incredible. Good way for people to follow along with you. Maybe LinkedIn give you a follow there.

51:01
Jason Murrel
I am the worst at LinkedIn. I don't know why, but I've shied away from LinkedIn quite a bit. I can't tell you exactly what it is or why. I'm just terrible of social media in general. Probably. Honestly, probably the best way to reach out to us is through our vendor portal. We answer every single email that comes in, every single one, without fail. So. And it's definitely a priority for us, mostly because I'm awful on LinkedIn. So, yeah, definitely a great way touch base with us would be through there. And yeah, I'm always open to meeting new brands and working with the community. And honestly, the most rewarding and fun part of the job is being able to work alongside and get input because I learn a ton from brands.

51:42
Jason Murrel
So where you think I might be an opportunity or a resource for these brands? It goes both ways. Trust me. We learn a ton of stuff from brands, bringing us products and just having a community and partnership with brands and your trade shows.

51:57
Daniel Scharff
I know I met you originally at the UnFi trade show, I think the first time in Vegas. What else are you going to this year? Are you going to fancy foods or going to Newtopia?

52:06
Jason Murrel
We are going to Newtopia. We don't really attend, at least on my team. We don't do much on the fresh side that's left to some of the other buyers. But yeah, I mean, we've done the Expos, we've done the infra conferences, which I think are really beneficial, you know, some of the smaller tabletops and stuff with some of the distributors on new products and stuff like that. But yeah, I think the expo is always going to be the big memorable one. Get a really cool opportunity to be face to face with a lot of the partners that we've made over the years and it's exciting. There's a ton of energy there and it's infectious. So definitely to me, one of the more exciting expos or shows, trade shows to kind of be a part of.

52:49
Jason Murrel
And I've tried walking down the halls with Jimbo, but he's like this celebrity, so I get about 12ft and realize that it's going to be a long day, so everyone wants to talk to him. He's definitely been a pioneer in the industry and I'm super appreciative to be a part of it.

53:07
Daniel Scharff
All right, Jason, thank you so much. Excited to hang with you at Newtopia. Nice little plug for our new topia party called Discotopia. For anyone there, it's going to be a silent disco with brands sampling silent disco. Pretty good way to go for a networking event, by the way, so we don't all lose our voices when we're there doing the networking part, too. So excited to see it. Everybody there. Jason, thanks again and thanks everyone for listening.

53:33
Jason Murrel
All right, thank you. I appreciate the time.

53:36
Daniel Scharff
All right, everybody, thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed the podcast today, it would really help us out if you can leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. I am Daniel Scharff. I'm the host and founder of startup CPG. Please feel free to reach out or add me on LinkedIn. If you're a potential sponsor that would like to appear on the podcast, please email partnershipstartupcpg.com and reminder to all of you out there, we would love to have you join the community. You can sign up at our website, startupcpg.com to learn about our webinars events and Slack channel. If you enjoyed today's music, you can check out my band it's the super fantastics on Spotify music. On behalf of the entire startup CPG team, thank you so much for listening and your support. See you next time.