The Startup CPG Podcast

Jess Windell
So I heard this thing the other day from a client of mine, actually, who runs PR, and she said, marketing is what you pay for. Pr is what you pray for. Loved that. I just think it's not always guaranteed, but when it hits, you're like, hell yeah. Like, this is incredible. We didn't expect this, and it's not going to happen when you want it to or how you want it to. But the more things you're putting into motion, the likelihood increases.

00:36
Daniel Scharff
I want to be on the cover of startup CPG. And now you can be. Because we have launched our free startup CPG newswire service. It's a place for brands to submit their press releases about all their exciting developments, which we then circulate to our audience.

00:54
Daniel Scharff
We're going to cover that launch today, as well as check in with the newswire sponsor, Jess Windell from Maven on all things pr. What's considered newsworthy? How do you write a release? And how do you get press coverage? To learn more and submit your release, check out startupcpg.com newswire. See you there. Hey everyone. I am so grateful for those of you leaving reviews on Apple Podcasts. I just want to shout out a few of the people who are doing it.

01:21
Daniel Scharff
So Ken Grain free wrote, this is a must listen pod for anyone in the CPG industry and even casual foodies he likes. The buyer spotlights the best. Andrea wrote, this is my go to resource. As a CPG marketer, the startup world's not easy, and it's great to know there's a whole community of us out there. Marcus Montgomery wrote, as an emerging brand, I love listening to these podcasts to find inspiration. Thank you so much. If you can leave a review, I want to shout you out here, your brand, your company. So please make sure you mention that in the review. Thanks, everybody. Now back to the show. All right, everyone, welcome to the show. We are here today to celebrate the launch of a brand new initiative of ours. It's the startup CPG newswire.

02:02
Daniel Scharff
So the idea came to me for this because at my last brand, we paid like $3,000 to issue a press release about our brand launching. I think we had to pay Dollar 500 just for the right to put our logo on that press release, which is ridiculous. Then no reporters picked up this press release magically. It didn't get on the COVID of Forbes, and it was a huge waste of money. That money's gone. We needed that money back for other stuff. So as startup CPG grew, I wanted to create a free newswire service that could do even more for brands. We want to let emerging CPG brands publish their news about launching or new distribution, whatever it is.

02:42
Daniel Scharff
Then we circulate that news in our newsletter, which is 25,000 people and growing, including a lot of really influential reporters in the space from places like Food Navigator USA, from Food Business News, from Bevnet. And we want them to see your press release and then cover it in their pretty cool publications. So I'm really happy to have a lot of help along the way. First, joining me today, we've got Grace Kennedy. Grace is our managing editor for startup CPG. Really the brains behind the news wire. She is responsible for developing it, creating the guidelines, the curation, the publishing, basically just making it really nice and effective. Also along the way, Grace and I knew we would need help from a partner, so we recruited industry legend Jess Wendell.

03:29
Daniel Scharff
She is the owner of Maven Consulting, a full funnel pr firm for consumer brands and just known by everybody as being kind of a nonsense pro who gives great advice. So she came on as the sponsor for this initiative. Thank you, Jess. So welcome to the podcast, ladies. Let's just jump right in and do some introductions. Grace, do you mind going first?

03:50
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. I'm Grace. As Daniel said, the editor of startup CPG. I'm super happy to be here. Like I I'm Grace. Really happy to be here. Like Daniel said, I'm the editor at startup CPG. You may recognize my voice from the founder feature series we do on the podcast, but developing the newswire has been so fun and I'm really excited to talk more all about it with both Jess and Daniel. So thanks for having me.

04:17
Daniel Scharff
All right, Grace, welcome. Okay, so, Jess, I'm especially excited to have you here, I think because as an early brand, a lot of people will start with this wild assumption that, okay, I'll launch my brand and then I have to pay for pr because we're not going to do well and get into retailers and get all these consumers unless we get that cover of some magazine. And you get that by paying PR, and then you get it and then youre a big, successful brand, youre good to go. But I know when I ask you to talk to brands or when ive talked to you in the past, one of the first things that youll say to an early brand is dont pay for pr at the beginning. Its so expensive and it probably isnt going to get you much.

04:57
Daniel Scharff
That means something when youre small and you dont have a lot of distribution. Do you mind telling me about your background and your approach to PR for early brands.

05:07
Jess Windell
Yeah, of course. Thank you so much for having me. Really excited to be here. And yeah, I think my mentality and my approach is really stems from my background. I was on the agency side for seven years and then in house for perfect bar at the high growth stage that were in and just saw firsthand how PR agencies were working with small startup brands and really the gap that there was integrating with all the other functions of the business in those early stages. And so when I started maven, I really, my aim was to demystify PR. And the fact of the matter is, whether you think you're doing pr or you think you're not doing pr, you have stakeholders that matter to your business, you have people talking about your business. It's just a matter of who's controlling that message.

05:54
Jess Windell
In those early stages, you as a brand have little activity. You maybe are launching with one or two skus and you have a couple retailer announcements to make. You don't have enough activity to warrant a $10,000 a month retainer where an agency is going to be requesting updates, news announcements from you and requiring you to invest in other areas so that they have something to amplify. So it's more about scaling as you go, just like you would any other role in your business. I think PR, unfortunately, is just still so coveted that people think they need to outsource for it immediately. But you're not going to hire a VP of Ops immediately when you start your business. So why would you go out and hire a VP of PR is how I see it.

06:41
Daniel Scharff
Yeah, it makes sense to me. I think everybody, when you're launching your brand, you get so excited about it. You are deep into the passion of it. You're so excited about the product that you're creating, and then you see your branding for the first time and you love it and you're like, everyone's going to love it as much as I do. So of course, with a little PR, we're going to go viral. But I mean, the reality of it is there is no game plan to go viral. Like, it's usually the exception, not the rule, and brilliant people can hit on it, but very hard to plan for something like that. And the reality is like, a brand launching is not so interesting for so long to people.

07:17
Daniel Scharff
Like, you might get some coverage on it and I hope you do, but it's not going to hit the front page. And you know, they're like, okay, great, you're here, like now what? Like, you know, tell me when you get, you know, your first million in sales or you hit Whole Foods nationally and it's a thing, and now we're like, all right, this deserves a lot of coverage, right?

07:34
Jess Windell
Exactly. It. I call them hype stats. So I say, what are your hype stats to date? Do you have an ingredient that has never gone to market before, that you have clinically tested, or you have a doctor on staff that is willing to be the spokesperson for this insane new ingredient that's coming to market? What do you have that is worth talking about right this second? And that looks so different for every brand but media influencers, anyone that is going to have influence on your consumer is going to want to know what your credibility and clout is before they endorse it. Unless, and this is why PR still is so valuable, they try the product and they are over the moon. Cannot believe how good it is. They're a mega fan. You're going to get that organic endorsement.

08:23
Jess Windell
So seeding your product, if it speaks for itself and it is that good, you'll probably start getting that trickle effect and you'll start, you know, setting the fire for that wildfire to start. But typically, you do need to build a bit of credibility. And those hype stats of what retailers have endorsed you, what celebrity has your product in their fridge, those types of things give you that validation that you need to go out and pitch yourself and say, we're worth talking about. We have something to share.

08:55
Daniel Scharff
Yeah, I'm just even trying to remember what are some of the products out there that might have actually, at launch, been so newsworthy? I mean, there's some that have gotten a lot of attention and hype. I don't even know a lot about it, but I remember there was that pink sauce that went really viral on TikTok at some point or something. And like, yeah, probably some, like a pro could have hyped that up even more at the time, but you can't plan for that. Like, okay, I'm going to launch this thing. And then, because it has this differentiation that I love, everyone's going to cover it. Right?

09:24
Jess Windell
And there's a difference between trend chasing and having, like, a flash in the pan product and building a product that has long term sustainability. I'll give you three examples of brands that I think at launch had something to talk about. One is mission mighty me. They are a peanut puff that helps prevent childhood allergies. They have one of the top rated global pediatric pediatricians that has done tons of research in kids allergy prevention. And he is a co founder.

09:59
Daniel Scharff
I think you're probably right, because when you said it, both grace and I both made the MMM face like, oh, that is interesting.

10:04
Jess Windell
It's fascinating and it's interesting and it's solving a real issue. There's deathly allergies that exist in kids and what parent wouldn't wanna prevent that? Phyta plant based protein. They had a partnership with Budweiser where they were taking all the upcycled barley that was going to waste. Billions of tons of barley going to waste. And they're using it now as plant based protein. And they also had James from the game Changers documentary, which is the most watchnet documentary on Netflix, as their founder. So you hear like these, there's these points that are the hype stats that you have upon launch that not every brand has. You're lucky if you have those. You should work for the first year or two to find those.

10:53
Jess Windell
I think having a PR consultant to, and these are the conversations I had this week with a few startup CPG brands is okay, based on this product, who would be really compelling to bring in the next year, which those conversations take time. Give them equity. Give them equity upfront and get them on board. And then now build a campaign around their involvement. So things like that. I think a PR arm can be helpful. But do I think going and hiring a $10,000 a month agency, even if you get those hits, even if you get on the front page of Forbes, which we have for some brands, pre revenue, what you can do with that coverage when the rest of the marketing funnel is not fully set up yet is very minimal. So I always say the coverage can come through.

11:42
Jess Windell
I have a brand of my own. We've gotten a ton of coverage, like 40 pieces of coverage in two years. What we get to do with that coverage is so minimal because we don't have the audience to push it out to. We don't have the ad dollars to put sponsored ads behind those pieces of coverage. So it just, the impact isn't there. I don't think, to warrant that level.

12:03
Daniel Scharff
Of spend, especially when you don't have distribution. Like you're not available in corner shops near people.

12:08
Jess Windell
They don't know where to find you.

12:09
Daniel Scharff
Yeah, they're not going to see that piece of coverage and then go to the store, be like, oh yeah, I heard about them. I'll try it. So I like those examples. Obviously you get a celebrity involved. Maybe we're getting a little bit of like, over saturation on the celebrity front, but let's say Zoa with the rock. Okay. Everyone's just going to write about that. I don't know what it is just because, I mean, obviously he is such a massive star and it was branding that seemed very strongly related to him. And at the time, I think that was a very hot category, so everybody was interested to hear about that. Right, which would make it very pr.

12:44
Jess Windell
Newsworthy, and I think always making sure that there's a storyline. So whenever a brand comes to me and says, we want to bring in a celebrity, it's like, what's the storyline that's going to thread your brand to them? Don't just have a face that is going to fall so flat, but having. That's why I'm even thinking. So there was a brand that's more in the mental health field of, like, feeling good, you know, mind, body, soul. And I was like Jay Shetty or the like, right? Someone who has this platform where their audience is so keen on the mental health and they're ten steps ahead of the general public. That is who you need, because who is going to recognize them and be influenced by them? You need your consumer to be in their audience.

13:34
Jess Windell
So thinking about celebrity, I think of it more as, like, spokesperson. Like, who do you want to be the spokesperson of your brand? Because they have a story to tell or because their child has a peanut allergy and they didn't want their two other kids to have a peanut allergy, so they started incorporating the snack into their family's routine early on. Those are the types of stories that I think make it pr able and.

13:56
Daniel Scharff
Just, I mean, kind of a little bit of a tangent, but, you know, what is it like to work with a celebrity on a brand? Cause I know a lot of people ask about that, like, do I need that? What will it do for me? I can tell you I've worked at brands that have had a celebrity, maybe not of the stature of the rock, but I was really curious. Cause we're like, okay, so the celebrity is gonna post about us today in this way that, yeah, we feel like we've built it up and it's aligned and everything. What's going to happen? Is our Instagram going to go to 1 million followers today? And at the end of the day, we got some followers. It might have been in a couple hundred when this person posted.

14:33
Daniel Scharff
And I don't know, maybe not even that many. It's not like people are out there. I think some celebrities might be different. I don't know, if Taylor Swift posts a big old ad for your brand, probably it's going to break your follower count. But, you know, most people don't love the celebrities that much that they're just going to go crazy by whatever they. Although, yeah, my niece would do that with Taylor Swift for sure. But, like, you know, in general, that's not really how it works. Right.

14:59
Daniel Scharff
It's like consistency and it's sort of the, like, validation and authenticity that maybe that totally celebrity's giving your brand, like, help you get into retail and like, yeah, you're going to get some follows from their following that's going to then love your product and become advocates for you and love you even more because of them, probably. But it's not like a yemenite magic trick and, you know, shortcut success. I don't know, maybe there have been some, you know, instances of that.

15:26
Jess Windell
There's many factors, right? Like, every situation is so different. Every celebrity is so different. I would say two things that I've seen work the best are the first one that I spoke to of, there is a real need in my life for this and I'm so passionate about it that I can't wait to talk about it. And you don't have to pay me. And our contract is in place because it has to be. But I want to talk about this because it's incorporated into my life. I think apparel companies and beauty companies do that really well because it's something that you're wearing and you're using and you get to, like, organically share that. The other thing I think works really well is the collaboration on products.

16:09
Jess Windell
So we have a brand, a maven brand that we just approached, a longtime influencer who's really in that mega space. And we approached her about creating her own product for the anniversary of this brand and work. She's been a longtime fan of the brand, and she would basically come in and do the R and D and, you know, sell this limited edition that could eventually go into a retailer like target. I think those work really well, too. Again, it's that authenticity and it's. I worked with this brand. It's not just like puppeteering. Right. They didn't tell me what to post. I saw this. I'm not gonna names. There's just, there's. It's done well and it's done poorly. And I think anyone can see through when it's done because this is in your contract and I just refuse to do deals like that.

17:02
Jess Windell
In fact, I have another really good example we had a brand of ours two years ago, very well known brand in the space right now. And were getting organic traction from a mega celebrity on his literally at least once a week. He was, like, sharing that he was eating the snack. And the founder came to me and was like, we need to talk to his team. We need to see how we can do more with him. And I was like, let's pump the brakes. I actually think this is incredible. Whatever's happening right now, what we need to do is make sure that his pantry is stocked at all times. He has more product on hand than he knows what to do with. So he's giving it to his friends, he's sending it.

17:43
Jess Windell
In fact, what I also recommend is that we say, hey, who are ten people that you would like us to share this snack with? Send them product, and we can put a little love note in there from you that says, like, you know, hope you enjoy this. It's my favorite snack. That's what I thought we should do. That was my recommendation. Instead, I was strong armed a bit to have a conversation with his management team. And so I put together this whole brief of ideas and ways in which I thought we could work together. We hop on the phone with them, $300,000 to even have a conversation with him about it. And guess what? After that conversation, the same thing happened at perfect bar. When we had a conversation with a big celebrity who was a natural fan, they stopped posting. Stop.

18:25
Daniel Scharff
Yeah.

18:26
Jess Windell
So I just, you know, I heard this thing the other day from a client of mine, actually, who runs PR, and she said, marketing is what you pay for. Pr is what you pray for. Loved that. I just think it's not always guaranteed, but when it hits, you're like, hell, yeah. Like, this is incredible. We didn't expect this, and it's not going to happen when you want it to or how you want it to, but the more that more things you're putting into motion, the likelihood increases.

18:59
Daniel Scharff
All right, I love it. And I also will just give a random recommendation to people, which is if you can form a relationship with some of those celebrities, like, authentically, directly, like that it is, even if it's three hundred k, a better way to go than going through some of their talent agencies, because then that number is going to become 600k or million because they need their piece also. And they're going to give you just some whole ridiculous story about the opportunity cost for that celebrity. And, like, you know, what else they have going on, and you need to just carve out about 50% of your company, if you're even going to want to talk to them. And so anyways, no good way to go about it, but hopefully they become super fans and then you get a good deal with it.

19:38
Daniel Scharff
So, Grace, I'm going to come to you and I just want to talk to you a little bit about what we're hoping to achieve with the newswire, what we've already achieved. I think we've both been really excited seeing brands using it, seeing, getting the coverage happening like it's going, it's working. All right, I'm. So what have you learned along the way of creating the newswire? And then now we're through the first three volumes of it, seeing some awesome press releases going out. What are you seeing?

20:04
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, it's been really exciting to see the different submissions, see how excited people are. You know, when were at fancy Foods, you know, a month or so ago, I had multiple brands coming up to me saying either, you know, oh, I submitted my news, you know, is it out yet? Or, oh, I have news that I'm going to submit. And then to see those submissions come in, you know, a few weeks later when their news was ready to be announced. It's been really cool to be able to offer the service and to see that brands are genuinely really excited about it. So we're seeing all sorts of things. You know, one of the brands I talked to at Fancy Foods was Rind, which is a really amazing vegan cheese. And they announced with us that they were launching into Erewhon.

20:45
Grace Kennedy
And, you know, they came up to me at Fancy Foods and they were saying, thank you so much for publishing this press release. We were able to share it with some of our connections, some of the people they're talking to in terms of investing as well. So they can say, hey, look, here's our announcement. This is happening. And I think it adds almost just having an external source for your news adds a kind of legitimacy to it that yourself just sending an email to someone like, hey, we launched an air one doesn't have the same exact weight. So it's been really cool to be able to offer that to brands and then also been really cool to starting to see some of these reporters picking up our news.

21:23
Grace Kennedy
So one of our first brands that ever submitted anything to the newswire, Balkan Bites, they were announcing the launch of their mini Philo roles. I think that was maybe two months ago now. But anyway, a reporter, Brooke, just from Food Business News, ended up writing an article about this news that she got from our newsletter. So it's really cool to start to see that happen and that's something I expect to see more of. We have so many connections and reporters, people I meet at different trade shows as well. Like how can we get involved with startup CPG brands? And I'm like, look at our newswire. That's where you can find out what the startup CPG brands are doing. Who's launching where, who's starting a crowdfunding campaign.

22:10
Grace Kennedy
Ava's pet palace just announced their I launching a Wii funder, all sorts of different launches, new products, things like that. So I'm really excited to have just even more reporters come to us about where they can learn about our brands. And also just to give this, again, this platform where brands can say we have this legitimacy of an external source has said this is newsworthy and we are going to publish it.

22:38
Daniel Scharff
Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. You know, I had a little bit of a light bulb go off my head when at one of our DC meetups, Elizabeth Watson was there from food Navigator and there were a bunch of brands getting up and talking about their products and she was just writing notes furiously and ended up doing, I think three articles based off just that meetup and brands that she met there. And I was asking her for feedback because were just launching the newswire and hey, this isn't our area really always am very timid about I dont want to piss off reporters by hitting them up too much in their email inbox. Jess knows all about that, im sure. But I was like hey, whats too much for us to send out these roundups?

23:16
Daniel Scharff
I was like is monthly okay or is that going to annoy you? And shes like at least weekly. I have to write stories daily. Im really interested in finding brands to cover all the time. Send us that stuff is really helpful. And so I've just been so excited by the response that we've been getting from journalists and these are real deal journalists in our space, some of the top tier ones that report for trade magazines, that report for consumer magazines, also all across the gamut that are very interested in emerging brands and they need to get those stories somewhere and they can get them from awesome people like Jess pitching them ideas. But also there's something special about getting it kind of directly from the brand, which is what this press release service I think lets people do.

24:04
Daniel Scharff
So I've been really excited about that. And that example with Brooke, just from food business news that you mentioned, one thing I loved is that we then shared that with our community. And she loved that. She's like, hey, thanks. We love when people share our reporting out inside of the industry because that is a trade publication and it's for the trade. And then I felt really honored that we could then help circulate it further to the trade. So that was a really fun one for us, I think kind of like seeing the whole thing kind of come full circle so quickly. And then I think the other thing, Grace, that maybe has surprised me is just how many submissions we are getting for this. With any kind of launch, you're like, all right, well, try it and see what happens.

24:42
Daniel Scharff
And I don't know, maybe we'll get enough to release this once a month. But now, I mean, gosh, we just are getting so many submissions with such cool news. So what's all the stuff that you're seeing in there? Like, what are brands really using the newswire to report on?

24:59
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. And just to speak to how many submissions we're getting. We just pushed up our next roundup to be earlier than were planning for because we have so much news and we're like, well, let's get it out sooner rather than later. So that's been really awesome. But, yeah, there's definitely, they run the whole gamut. But some of the things, like I mentioned before, we see things like a new product launch, like the mini Filo roles, or a brand launching into a really exciting retailer, like House of Gujana launched into Whole Foods in three regions. I think they make delicious indian frozen food.

25:32
Grace Kennedy
So I see a lot of announcements about distribution in that way, and then a lot of announcements about new products and also a lot of announcements about a launch, which I know were saying sometimes a launch isn't a totally newsworthy, but I think that for the purposes of our newswire, it's free. So please announce your launch in our newswire. It's really actually exciting for me because I get to feel like, ooh, like we're of the first people to announce this launch or things like that. So definitely seeing a lot of launches, distribution, and new products, I would say, are the top three things we're seeing on the newswire.

26:14
Daniel Scharff
And you really touched one of my goals for this startup, CPG Newswire service. I want to be everybody's go to source for direct news from emerging brands. There are other new sources out there, which is great, but if you want to hear it right from the brand and only from brands, I want to be the go to source. I want all of the reporters to be looking to us to get this nice, succinct report. I also, I want it to beautiful because when you're an early brand and you're releasing your news, it has to look good and high quality. And, you know, that's something that you and I spend a lot of time on. Grace is how do we make this look like what we think it is? Which is these are very innovative and high quality brands launching important things.

26:58
Daniel Scharff
And, you know, things like the distribution is so interesting to me because when I was a brand, I never understood that reporters and retailers would just care so much to hear about new distribution that were getting. There were so many reporters who would just straight up tell me, hey, come back when you have some distribution story for me. And even retailers who'd be like, tell me when you get distribution in that other store near me, and then I'll take you. Is so wild. Jess, maybe that's a question for you. Why do you think that reporters care so much to report on things like when you get Whole Foods and when you get some new account?

27:37
Jess Windell
I think it goes back to that credibility. It validates your brand. It's just like the media is endorsing or an influencer is endorsing. I consider retailers, stakeholders of your business, too, that you need to have relationships with. So when we think about pr, they're validating and endorsing your brand and your products. And so that's exciting. And it's just another feather in your captain. I also think something I was thinking as you were talking about just trade really being the source of truth for brands, brand news, you think about Douglas Yu, who writes forbes. All he covers is CPG. He is looking at the trades for what he needs to be aware of.

28:18
Jess Windell
And similarly, in every major consumer lifestyle publication, you have the nutrition and the wellness and the fitness writers who are going to these publications and to startup CPG for their source of news and information of what's the latest and greatest, because they want to be, you know, at the cutting edge of what's happening. I also think when there's specific articles to write about. So this is actually a great example for retail specific news. We constantly, every agenda that we have with our brands. One of the first line items is any distribution updates we should be aware of because it unlocks a whole new channel for us to go down. If you are in Costco, Target, Starbucks, Whole Foods, Erawan, like I call them, the sexy retailers, because articles will come out daily of here are the top five new products at Target.

29:13
Jess Windell
Here are the five pasta brands you should buy from Whole Foods. Costco gets so much coverage, so that's also a big indicator of. If I'm just searching Costco in food Navigator, I could probably see the brands that are coming up that are available in Costco that I want to include in this article.

29:31
Daniel Scharff
That's so interesting. And you're totally right. Erewhon is eleven stores and Whole Foods is 400. But almost people would care equally. Yeah. They would write about that, like, oh, you got an errone. That's news. And it's also, you know, when you're a salesperson reaching out to accounts, you're often looking for a way to reengage with them and to have a little bit of news to juice them with. And if you. Yeah, like, distribute. There's nothing like distribution to be a good excuse to reach out. If you're like. If you're reaching out, just be like, hey, I just want to let you know that we got into Erwin and Jimbo's and you're a retailer in this region. They're never going to be like, I can't believe you bothered me to tell me that. They'd be like, totally. Okay, maybe. Yeah, maybe you're validated now.

30:13
Daniel Scharff
They've done the work for me. Now I know you're legit.

30:16
Grace Kennedy
Yeah.

30:16
Jess Windell
And another, like, hot tip is when you get that distribution, tap your buyer. We've been doing this so much lately because our brands are building out sets in these major retailers. And so we're like, will this buyer weigh in on our press release? We got a target buyer and a sprouts buyer to give us a quote for two press releases we just put out. And I was like, if the rest of the press release doesn't matter, that quo is everything, because we get to put this target buyer is endorsing not only our product, but the growth of this category. How exciting is that? Not, that is something that you share with investors, with your board. That is something that speaks volumes.

30:56
Jess Windell
And so I know I put, like, how to write a press release in this resource guide, but that's just those quotes are an area that you can absolutely tap, and that gives so much more weight to your press release than you just writing it yourself.

31:10
Daniel Scharff
That never occurred to me, ever. And that is brilliant. Oh, my gosh. I never even thought to ask a buyer for a quote.

31:18
Jess Windell
I was shocked. I was. Well, Whole Foods is a little bit different. You have to, like, go through 70 different people to get approval, which is unfamiliar. I get that at that point. But target and sprouts I was shook that we didn't have to get approvals and we just put it out.

31:33
Grace Kennedy
Wow.

31:34
Daniel Scharff
That is, that's a great insight. Everyone should write that down. Remember that.

31:38
Jess Windell
I've never heard that before.

31:39
Daniel Scharff
That's awesome.

31:39
Jess Windell
Let's go for it. Let's try.

31:41
Daniel Scharff
All right. Buyers like to be featured also, and especially if they, a lot of them do this because they care about the products. And if they're not, when they're talking.

31:48
Jess Windell
About categories that they're betting on in store, of course they want to be seen as just like a brand. They have their own pr to do, too. If they're seen as being ahead of the curve in some of these trends or some of these opportunities, like non alcoholic beer, they want to be seen as a leader. So the more that we can do, that's the PR relationship is how can we better serve your perception and reputation? We're going to tell the industry, tell our media contacts that this retailer is betting on non alcoholic. That's going to say a lot about your brand as well.

32:26
Daniel Scharff
I love it. All right, so, Grace, can you tell me what is the process if a brand wants to submit a press release through the startup CPG newswire?

32:38
Grace Kennedy
Yes, of course. So it's actually pretty simple. As long as you've written the hardest part is probably writing the press release. But the process of actually submitting is quite simple. So if you go to our website, startupcpg.com, comma, there is a newswire section, which is where you can find the form to submit to our newswire. And then you'll get a, you know, I think it's like an eight question form, maybe, which will require you to submit your press release, submit your photo, a title of your press release, and a few other little questions, a brand bio, everything. Pretty short, nothing. You know, the press release itself shouldn't be too long. And Jess can talk as well about maybe the exact ideal length of a press release. But you submit that form and then I take a look at your press release.

33:27
Grace Kennedy
I read it over. I make sure it follows our guidelines, which we do have all of the guidelines written out before you start filling anything out. And I highly recommend you read those closely because some of the press releases that I have to deny are often just because of two words that aren't really fitting with press release style, or you don't follow the format or things like that. So read those guidelines closely and then I will look it over. I will either approve it or deny it. And then we'll publish it. I try to get them published, you know, within a few days, because obviously this is news, it's newsworthy stuff. And then you'll get an email that says, your press release is approved, and here's the link to publish it.

34:11
Grace Kennedy
And this is something we're really hoping all brands do as well, which is share the press release link on your own channels. We obviously share it in our newsletter, but we might not have the same audience that you have. So it's 1000% worth it to then share it yourself on your LinkedIn, on your Instagram, everywhere that it matters, and tag us. We're happy to help amplify it as well. Like comment, all the above. But yeah, that's the process. And if we deny your newswire submission, you'll get an email that's letting you know that it's been denied and you're welcome to resubmit. Just make a few adjustments, and we give examples of what those adjustments might be in that email.

34:52
Grace Kennedy
So you're welcome to resubmit, and you're also welcome to reach out to me if you need any support, if you have any specific questions and you're not sure why it was denied.

35:01
Daniel Scharff
Right? And I mean, you and I are here to print as many of these as possible. We're not here to deny press releases. That gives us negative joy. We want to approve it, but we do need to have certain criteria so that this is a real press release that reporters can trust. And at least for me, I think the most frequent reasons that we end up having to deny something would be like, let's say somebody in their press release is like, amazing new product revolutionizes the drink industry. It's like, okay, first of all, it's not objective at all, right? It's amazing to you, but that doesn't mean that, like, objectively, from a news standpoint, it's amazing.

35:40
Daniel Scharff
And second of all, like, well, you know, maybe let's take it easy with the revolutionizing, because, like, probably the drink industry isn't going to be revolutionized by this launch. Probably. It's going to take you a lot of years to work on this thing. So it just, you know, what reporters are looking for in a press release is just kind of flat news, factual. You have data points, put it in there. And, you know, I think if you want to try to get a little bit of flavor and creativity in there, the quotes section is a good place to do that. So a lot of people, you can put in a quote from the founder. Jess is giving me the thumbs up. I'm glad I'm getting some points from the pro here. So, like, you know, put in like, yeah, quote from Daniel founder.

36:19
Daniel Scharff
Like, we wanted to launch the most amazing. Okay. Yeah, like, there we go. And make yourself available to them if they want to talk to you later on. But, you know, I think you kind of have to just try to go flat with it and, yeah, stay neutral, I think is the right word because, yeah, if there is a word like that, just something that you couldn't say is factually true, unfortunately, we have to deny it. But, yeah, I mean, Grace, it's really great of you, too. I think one have fast turnaround on this because we want to get news out fast. News is news. It's got to get out there. And then also hopefully give people guidance and probably brands out there will understand we can't edit this for you. It's a press release that comes from you.

36:56
Daniel Scharff
So we can basically just tell you if it's going to be approved or rejected. And then we are a platform for you to publish the news and we will put it out to our audience. But we really. It's up to you to then also make the most of this thing and so be out there, post it on your LinkedIn. Everyone else, everyone out there knows, like, I'm a pretty big fan of LinkedIn stuff, and, you know, I think everyone should be out there telling their story, creating moments that they can share. And so, yeah, maybe then share this press release with a buyer. I don't know, you know, use it. So, really grateful to you, grace, for making this process. So, again, high quality.

37:34
Daniel Scharff
And then I think just easy, because, again, we also, we're not here to try to take up a bunch of time from brands. We just want to get this release out there, have it look great, get the news out, go about your day building your brand.

37:45
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. And one thing I just want to add to about the ones we have to deny, which the biggest one is definitely the use of words like revolutionize or pioneers in the industry or things like that. And I think I'll say, remember that in the press release form, there's a section for your brand bio. So you don't need in the press release as well to write out everything about your brand, every single product, every single flavor, keep it to the most important news, and then you'll have a brand bio that will say exactly who you are when it was founded, all of these things. So that's one thing I'll say. And then the other biggest reason I've had to deny press releases. It's really just that they're not press releases. And to clarify, it's often people submitting just like, we are this brand.

38:27
Grace Kennedy
And I'm like, that's awesome.

38:29
Daniel Scharff
We exist.

38:31
Grace Kennedy
That's great. I'm so happy for you. But it's not a press release. It's not news. And I'll say, if I don't know what your news is within the first sentence or two of your press release, you should rewrite it. And the announcement you're making should be within the first sentence. Probably. I mean, I maybe would say one to two, but Jess would probably say one sentence. So really, just think about that when you're writing the press release. What is my news? Because if it's just that you exist as a brand, it's not a press release yet.

38:59
Daniel Scharff
Yeah. And I will say, I learned in the whole brand journey, the less is more of, like, oh, and our package, then it's like a NASCAR car with, like, logos everywhere and all the claims and stuff. And I think the same is true in writing, is like, really try to do the work to figure out what are the three things people care about your product and just talk about those. Like, you don't need to say everything that's great about your product, the reasons you care about it. Maybe you'll have opportunities to do that later, but not everybody's going to care about all that stuff. They're looking for the hook, the kind of easy stuff, the things that they would tell other people.

39:31
Daniel Scharff
And often you can get those by talking, by just talking to somebody who likes your product and drinks it and be like, oh, how would you describe it to one of your friends? So that can be.

39:40
Grace Kennedy
Or list every single health claim. Like, sometimes I feel like people have, like, a sentence that's like a paragraph long with every health claim. Like, let's choose three.

39:48
Daniel Scharff
All right, so I also, I'll just.

39:51
Jess Windell
Add to that there's something to be said about leaving something for the imagination. If you give everything in this press release, what does an editor or a writer need to even reach out to you for to follow up? Where. That's where the real magic happens. So oftentimes when we do pitches, we'll put the hook. Is exactly what you're saying. What is the most compelling thing that we want to get across that gets them excited? And we say, you have to talk to our founder. They'll share more of this with you or let us know if we can send over a little bit more information. But you want to bring them in and get them excited.

40:26
Jess Windell
And then all that evergreen information about your brand, they can click right through to your website or there's a contact on your press release, they can reach out to find that. So make it timely. Versus Evergreen. And you're exactly right. The boilerplate for your brand bio, that's where the evergreen stuff should live.

40:46
Daniel Scharff
I love it. Okay. And so, Jess, let's just jump into a little PR 101 here. So, you know, I think we talked a lot about what do people do with a press release? But typically, if you start working with brains, is that something you recommend pretty quickly? Like, hey, do you have some news, like you should do a press release, or do you feel like it's not always necessary? Like, when would you even need to have one?

41:11
Jess Windell
Yeah. So I think this resource guide that I shared with the community is helpful to not only see what is the true purpose of a press release, but also what are those news categories that you should write a release for? And we also call press releases media briefs, where it's not something that we actually publish. And to your point, prior to the startup, CPG Newswire, press releases cost money to distribute. And certainly there's not necessarily a value that you get that you can track the ROI of that investment. So I say the three reasons to do a press release is that you're looking for that media stakeholder coverage, which to me can either be written sometimes in a pitch, or you're able to attach it as a media brief, but you don't always need to distribute it on the massive distribution wire.

42:06
Jess Windell
It is a way to put your stake in the ground as this happened on this day. It helps with SEO. If you do a search, that's when that news comes up. And then it does give you the opportunity to control the message. So I will say if we have something that we're hoping to share that maybe is a bit more verbose and we can't quite convey it in a sentence, in a pitch, we'll do a press release or a media brief, which just helps us to get it exactly as we want the information conveyed. And to your point earlier about objectivity versus subjectivity, you want your news to be as objective as possible because you're essentially serving it up on a silver platter to editors to then put their own spin on it, that's where the subjectivity and the endorsement comes in.

42:56
Jess Windell
If you're fluffy and you're saying, and we have the best and the greatest, and we feel all these things about it, and you should too, that gives no room for them to make to form an opinion of their own. So that as quick and dirty as you can share the news as possible, I would say it's hard. Some of our brands really enjoy having the news kind of formulated in a way that they can share it with buyers and brokers and on LinkedIn, and we're putting it on our blog page. Those are maybe more of the early stage brands. And I would say for our bigger brands, we're doing them once or twice a year when we have a big announcement, or we're pulling together innovation, retail distribution into one release, and then we're like, what new data do we have to support this?

43:48
Jess Windell
How can we get it all out at once? So sometimes I'll say, great, that's awesome that's happening. Let's wait till we have, like, two more things that bulk this up a little bit and make it really newsworthy.

43:59
Daniel Scharff
Yeah. And I mean, it's not all just about press releases, obviously. Like, I don't know. For me, in an ideal world, like, okay, I'm launching a product, I can just, like, maybe tell people about it, and then I could post, like, a press release, hopefully, that I wasn't paying for, like, ours. And then maybe we get some coverage, and then I can post about that coverage, and then I get distribution and I post some kind of content about getting that distribution. And then for me, that's like, okay, this is the beginnings of creating a lot of hype and excitement around a brand. It looks like it has a lot of validation and people rooting for it. So it's not just like, let me just post, like, ten press releases in a row, right? Which people will get fatigued from.

44:37
Jess Windell
And that's, I think, in these early stages. This is my whole premise of demystifying PR is most people think PR is media coverage. That is one sliver of the pie of what PR is. It's about relationships with your public, which means the relationship with the stakeholders who have influence on your end consumer. So in those early stages, it could be registered dietitians, it could be your most loyal fans who are going to scream from the rooftops or give you a ton of reviews on your website. Hi, stat. We have 25,000 reviews in the first year. These relationships that you have, even your employees, how are they talking about your brand? How are they showing up on LinkedIn? There's so many relationships that come in those early stages that you need to foster.

45:27
Jess Windell
If you're so worried about what is the media going to say about us, and we need to get that coverage. In women's health, you're going to lose sight of the people who are there with you building. And so I say, what's the low hanging fruit here? Who do we have access to that could help us tell our story, even if it's on a small scale to start, because that's where you start building.

45:49
Daniel Scharff
I love it. Okay, so once, let's say you get this newswire published or you do a press release anywhere, maybe you pay money to do it, and now you have the press release. What would you be typically doing it with it? It sounds like you would want to communicate it out then to your public in one or many ways. Maybe it's through your email newsletter or dming it to one of your registered dietitian influencers. Or, you know, what would you say is the kind of best practice for what to do once you have a nice juicy press release out?

46:22
Jess Windell
I think it depends on the news entirely. You have to ask yourself who's going to actually care about this news and want to share it with their audience? So when we talk about trade updates, innovation, I think is probably the one that you would want to share with more consumer. Even when you get trade coverage, if you get nosh or food business news to cover your news, you're not putting that on your instagram. In fact, that is just something I want to call out. Do not put that type of news on your instagram because your end consumer doesn't care as much as your LinkedIn audience does or your buyers do or your board of directors does. So just be really cognizant of what is the news that we're sharing and we'll talk about Catalyst in a moment.

47:07
Jess Windell
But it's really what is the story that I want to come out of this. So if we're launching a pumpkin pie flavor in the fall, who is writing about seasonal flavors that would care about this? Versus we got distribution in Target, who's writing about target products that we would want to know about. This really dependent on the news is who you go after and what beat they're covering. But just be cognizant of, I know you want to get your news out there and that's, you know, think about what is my ego or what is my excitement driving versus what is the relationship with that media contact? Who is going to be excited that I shared this with them, our retailer? What is it about the relationship where it's mutually beneficial not just for you but for them as well?

47:54
Jess Windell
And they're going to be excited to share it with their audience and Jess.

47:58
Daniel Scharff
Referred to it earlier. But when you're submitting your press release through our website, you'll see a couple pieces of important content from her. There are videos that tell you exactly what is newsworthy, how to write a press release in this objective, not so subjective kind of way. Tips for getting coverage as well. So yeah, any other thoughts, especially on how to try to get organic coverage for your press release? Just with at least that one focus of getting those kinds of trade publications? Let's say you're somebody who doesn't even know a lot of these reporters or have a relationship with them already. How could you build that and get the coverage?

48:37
Jess Windell
So one thing that excites me most about what I am very delayed in launching because it is taking way longer than I expected it to. But this catalyst program is I built an in house agency at perfect bar and yes, were much bigger than a lot of the brands and startup CPG community. But what it showed me is that we didn't need to rely on the preceded relationships that these agencies had. It took more time. But my God, was it so valuable to have these editors coming directly to us. We're stocking their fridge every month. We as a brand are building relationships with these people. So something that my catalyst program teaches brands is identify the 20 media contacts that are writing articles that you want to be in.

49:26
Jess Windell
So go to those publications and I give lists of kind of where to start looking. But what are the articles that you think you should be in or you deserve to be in and get those contacts? I teach how to write a pitch and to kind of find those story angles. Dm them on Instagram, dm them on LinkedIn. There's a media database that you can purchase that gives you full reign and full access to any media contact that you want. So the access is there. I think that's a big misconception is like, I don't know how to reach out to them. I don't know where they are. It's like they are absolutely accessible and available to you. It's just about focusing and knowing why you're reaching out to them so that you don't get blacklisted.

50:06
Jess Windell
You don't want to spray and pray to every media contact in the world. You want to be really focused on who you're talking to, why you're talking to them, and work on building a relationship with them. We send out an ungodly amount of samples to media contacts every single week and we have, were just talking to a brand yesterday, we have like 72 interests and that have not come to fruition. Other ones have come to fruition, but 72 interests over the last year that have just. That people sampled our product and they like it and they've given us positive feedback. Yeah, it was so good. Love this about it. But it hasn't resulted in coverage.

50:45
Jess Windell
However, how we get that coverage to come through is the second they're looking for that specific ingredient or this use case of this product, they're going back in their email inbox, they're scanning, you know, what samples have they received or what. What products have they been privy to? And then they're covering it. Stuff pops up all the time that again, we didn't pay for, we prayed for, and we got, you know, we got it because we sampled them a year ago. I can't tell you the amount of coverage that has come through from something that we thought was completely dead in the water. So going back to build relationships with the people you think are going to be excited to know about your news and your product, that makes me think.

51:27
Grace Kennedy
Even from anecdotally, as a person who writes a lot of features of brands and does a podcast, part of our podcast of the founder features, I don't think I've ever featured a brand. I haven't tried a sample of. I don't.

51:40
Jess Windell
It's an endorsement.

51:41
Grace Kennedy
Yeah.

51:42
Jess Windell
It's why it's still so valuable, because there's still an endorsement component.

51:45
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. And I, you know, even too, we want to feature brands that are a part of the startup CPG community. And so I think of two of those media contexts. They want to feature brands that probably read their stuff themselves or who would be, you know, relevant to their audience. I think that's great advice. And just speaking as somebody who gets, I do get emails from PR people about, you know, can you check this out? My first thing is, well, are you part of the startup CPG community? And then my second thing is, yeah, I need to try it before I interview you because I don't want to, like, interview somebody and then after the fact, discover that their product is like, not good.

52:18
Jess Windell
But yeah, and that's exactly it is. There are so many free, some aren't free, but resources that you can just start watching what they're saying. Sub stacks have blown up. Almost all of our editorial contacts, to some degree, have. Have a sub stack that they're sending out newsletters of what they're covering, what they're looking for, things that they find interesting, sign up for those. I'm on like 20 sub stacks that we're just watching to see what people are talking about. Same thing with their LinkedIn and their Instagram. If they're in, you know, LA and they're visiting from somewhere else, you're like, hey, pop into Arawan. We're doing a demo today. Would love to see you and meet you.

52:59
Jess Windell
Like, if you become obsessed with what they're covering and what they're interested in, they'll tell you just have to be in the right places to show up and see it.

53:08
Daniel Scharff
That makes a lot of sense. And Jess, you mentioned it a couple times, but, just as we wrap up here, do you mind just giving everyone the quick overview of what is your new program? Catalyst?

53:19
Jess Windell
Yes. Yes. It's taking me far too long because I am obsessed with making sure it is just full of all the information that brands need to really do, kind of everything we're talking about on their own in those early stages. So, basically, it's the first DIY PR toolkit for emerging brands and it's ten modules, 32 lessons, and kind of a master class in PR. So I think it really does dive deeper into a lot of the areas that we've talked about today. But what it really has that's useful is these tools and resources that you can use. A lot of, you know, I put pitch, I'm sorry, press release examples in this resource guide. There's pitch templates, press release templates, there's, you know, planning docs, all the things that you really need to build out your pr strategy as well as execute on it.

54:08
Jess Windell
So it also has a consulting component to it. So you can get sessions with me to kind of review what it is you're working on, or if you want me to join an influencer, celebrity call. Like, that's what excites me, that's why I started Maven in the first place, was to help brands that I am excited about and obsessed with get their word out to the world. And so I think I've had maven for almost four years now and I've been able to do that. But what hasn't worked is bringing on brands too early, that we expect to come with this resource heavy toolkit that we can then go and amplify. Or you have a lot of things happening in the marketing world that we get to then go tell about.

54:52
Jess Windell
We need to start at the base level and we need to give brands just those key fundamentals they need to start revving the engine, and then you better believe that I'm going to be watching the brands that are in catalyst and seeing, you know, who might be ready for that next stage. But I tell brands all the time, you know, agencies will say, come on in, the water's fine, we can get press for you. Absolutely. And they probably can, but the benefit and the impact that's going to have for your brand in this life stage is not going to be there for you to invest that amount of money. So I think it's start here and then you decide and I will help you decide if it's the right time to then up level.

55:31
Jess Windell
But I think so many brands go all or nothing either. I'm not touching pr. We're not looking at it. No, no, don't talk to me. We're not going to do that for another couple years or I'm going in on an agency because, like, they told me that they could get me pressed. I think there's an in between and that's what I'm trying to build.

55:46
Daniel Scharff
And all of this can be yours for the low price of how much, Jess, what are we talking? Let's talk turkey. Yeah.

55:54
Jess Windell
So it'll be $3,500.01 time fee. And that gives you access to. It's on demand, so you can share it with your team. In fact, I recommend that it's, you know, the founder listens and watches it all and then a junior level team member, an intern, bring them on, have them watch it and have them kind of execute on some of these tactical things. And it's doable. It does take time. I will say, like, you have to be willing to put in the time, but I mean, I'm a founder of a startup brand that's, we're two years old and, like, I'm doing the elementary stuff. I never thought I'd see again. Right. It's those things that you almost want to do before you pass it off and get so close to it that you understand it.

56:36
Jess Windell
So you can better manage a PR agency when you bring them on and say, oh, I actually did that back in the day, or, I also understand this now, that's actually not the right route to take, or you're kind of blowing smoke because I know better. I think there's such a blindness right now with PR and I'm really just trying to unpack it.

56:56
Daniel Scharff
Yeah, makes sense. And so for anyone interested, if you go to our news wire section on our website, you'll see the link to learn more about Jess and her resources. And it has an email address if you want to get in touch there as well. So thank you, Jess, for all of that partnership. And I will just end on a little sad story of when I tried to hire somebody to do PR. And just to put that cost into.

57:16
Jess Windell
Perspective, it wasn't me.

57:17
Daniel Scharff
No, it was not Jess. It was. Sadly, this was in the days I referred to as PJ pre Jess before I knew Jess. And I asked around friends like, hey, we want to get PR. We want good coverage for launching. It's a super cool brand. Everyone's going to want to know about it, obviously, but we don't want to spend a lot of money. And so then they're like, okay, yeah, if you want like one of those big legit PR firms, I mean, you got to have at least like fifteen k a month for those guys. Like, whoa, okay, well, what about someone like maybe an independent, like a freelancer who's just as good as them? And then I think we ended up getting someone who was about five k, which honestly it felt right.

57:57
Daniel Scharff
Like, okay, yeah, they like, you know, a person or two vouched for them and it seemed like they were passionate about the brand. At the end of the day, what happened? They worked for us for, I don't know, three or four months and were paying, that's a lot of money, five k a month. I mean, that's a, you know, a junior resource even in some different areas who could be just doing that nonstop. And I mean, it just really was like a cost center because then, okay, they're like trying to help us reach out to different influencers as well as reporters and we're just sending out lots of product and like, we could never own the relationship with these people. Like they, this person would protect the contact info and we couldn't have their email address or have a relationship with them ourselves.

58:40
Daniel Scharff
And we would just send out tons of product. And a lot of times it was just, it just was nothing. And they were like, yeah, okay. They say they like it and they'll consider it in the future and then they get you on the hook. You know, it's like, no, like some good coverage is right around the corner, you know, they know, I think, like, yeah, they're definitely going to pick it up at some point and I think, man, you can be on that for a long time. So fortunately, I think we cut the juice before too long on that one. And it was kind of a sunk cost, but there was no consistency on it and you couldn't track it. I mean, probably that has turned out a little bit better for some other people out there.

59:17
Daniel Scharff
But that, for me, was just at least not too expensive of a lesson to learn about pr for an early brand. The early stages of just like, gosh, if I could do that one over again, I probably would have been like, you know what? Let's just get a resource and have them learn about it.

59:34
Jess Windell
Yeah.

59:34
Daniel Scharff
Like, and it means more when it comes from.

59:36
Jess Windell
You lose all those conversations.

59:38
Daniel Scharff
Yeah, you lose.

59:39
Jess Windell
Like I said, some of these pieces of coverage require us. I mean, we're constantly asking our brands, what new thing do we have or what can we create and come up with that? We can go back to these 72 people that we have, like, on, you know, on speed dial that would are interested in covering it. They just need a reason why. And I say it's like, something that's timely, relevant, and significant that we need to go back to them with. And when you cut off that contractor after three months, all those relationships go out the window. You think that contractor is going to send you the interest. When someone comes back to them, they're gonna be like, no, actually, I'm representing this brand now. Why don't you check them out? So that is. I mean, yes, that was part of.

01:00:22
Daniel Scharff
The story at the end, but it did not happen.

01:00:25
Jess Windell
I still run a full service PR agency, but we qualify brands like no one's business that we know we can really bring value for and that they're looking for that PR partner. And so it's. I am not, you know, pooing PR agencies whatsoever. I just think time and place, and you just. I want to equip you with the knowledge that you could be discerning with when and who you work with. And believe me, we can't work with everyone. And so we refer out people all the time to great agencies that we love. And it's more about, okay, I want to assess, and Daniel knows I'll talk to anyone. I will literally talk to anyone that wants to better understand PR because I want to avoid them having that pitfall and then xing PR for the rest of their brand's life.

01:01:11
Jess Windell
It's just, I want to help them avoid that.

01:01:14
Daniel Scharff
All right. I think those are great words for us to end on. Thank you so much to grace, our editor. Thank you so much, Jess, who helped us make this whole thing possible and for all of this great advice for brands. I think were really excited to just come on here and talk about the newswire, but we ended up getting all of these incredible tips for pr as well. And so now I feel like I at least got 10% of the module here for the lowest price. All right?

01:01:42
Grace Kennedy
And we also do have a link to the resource guide that Jess created specifically for startup CPG community members that's on the newswire application form or submission form. So check that out too, where you can hear even more of her lovely pieces of advice that are super helpful.

01:01:58
Daniel Scharff
All right. Okay, thanks everyone for tuning in. Thank you to my guests.

01:02:02
Jess Windell
Thank you.

01:02:03
Daniel Scharff
Peace and get great coverage everybody.

01:02:05
Grace Kennedy
Woo.

01:02:08
Daniel Scharff
All right, everybody, thank you so much for listening to our podcast. If you loved it, I would so appreciate it if you could leave us a review, you could do it right now. If you're an Apple podcast, you can scroll to the bottom of our startup CPG podcast page and click on write a review. Leave your company name in there. I will try to read it out. If you're in Spotify, you can click on about and then the star rating icon. If you are a service provider that would like to appear on the startup CPG podcast, you can email us at partnerships@startupcpg.com lastly, if you found yourself grooving along to the music, it is my band. You can visit our website and listen to more. It is superfantastics.com. Thank you everybody. See you next time.