The Startup CPG Podcast

Sean Goldsmith
Throughout history, people have gathered together and shared moments with a special beverage. And it goes back a long time. So I think that it's just deeply grained in us as humans to want to kind of mark occasions, mark times of day with a beverage. And I think a very common one is the happy drink. You know, you get off work and you want to blow off some steam, and if you don't want to have alcohol, what is it? You still want something a little bit more special, a little bit more elevated. But if you look at the stats, it's over 90% of the people that are buying these drinks are alcohol drinkers, and they're still drinking alcohol. They're just drinking less alcohol and wanting to replace that occasion with something.

00:57
Daniel Scharff
Hey, listeners, you must be hearing all about Dry January. And you're about to hear a bunch more because we've got Sean Goldsmith, the co founder and CEO of the Zero Proof. It's the largest online retailer for the adult non alk category. They've got a huge assortment of alcohol alternatives on their site, including so many brands from this community like Applos, Parch, and lots more, who all say what a great partner the Zero Proof has been. So today with Sean on the episode, we're going to talk about Dry January. What's behind it, what's behind the overall non alk movement, and how does the Zero Proof work, as well as how can brands try to get in touch with them?

01:31
Daniel Scharff
Also, if you've been waiting for an excuse to try out some non alk alternatives, here's your chance because Sean is giving our community 15% off his site. Just use the code STARTUPCPG15. Now let's kick back, crack open a non alk beer, and toast a truly awesome podcast guest.

01:48
Daniel Scharff
Here we go. All right, so here we are, Sean. It's Dry January. Welcome to the podcast. What do you think that people should expect from Dry January this year, like, as an indicator of the overall trends right now around low and non elk?

02:04
Sean Goldsmith
So Dry January, it just gets bigger and bigger every year. We see it in our numbers. And if you look at any of the number of stories that are published around this time, I think last year 27% of Americans participated in Dry January. So let's take a guess and say it's going to be 35 to 40% this year. That's a lot of people that are looking to get off the sauce. And a lot of them are, you know, fortunately finding the Zero proof and lots of great alcohol alternatives.

02:35
Daniel Scharff
Who do you think that is? Is it like people who are heavy drinkers or even like, I can't drink that much. I wish I could drink as much as I used to, but my body does not allow it. I get crazy headaches, which means like, you know, I'm sort of a two drink max kind of guy. And that's still tempting for me because like, I like do really enjoy having a drink, but I almost always regret it and like have a little headache. So I'm like, yeah, I should do that. Is it a lot of people like me or is it people who are going at it pretty hard and they're interested in having a break from that?

03:04
Sean Goldsmith
I think it's all kinds. But if you look at the folks that outside of dry January are gravitating towards our category, this is really a wellness driven trend. So I think it's folks that care about what they're putting in their body, like you and me, getting a little older, their body's not processing alcohol the way they used to. And so we see a lot of on ramps to the space. You know, my wife is a great example. She's big into fitness and works really hard and she's like, wow, I just don't really want to drink alcohol anymore. New parents get a lot of our products for gifts and just a lot of them continue drinking. And so I think it's a wellness driven trend more than anything.

03:45
Daniel Scharff
So we'll get into your guys story a little bit more in a second here, but help me understand you like as a wholesaler or distributor, like what kind of bump do you see in that month around dry January and how much of it actually sustains with individual consumers afterwards?

04:01
Sean Goldsmith
December to January we'll probably see a 50% bump in business. But December is also huge. I mean from October through January we'll grow 50% a month, thereabouts every month. So it's significant. And if you look at the growth patterns of our business, it is straight up through the year, boom, October to December, January and then big drop in February and then it all resets at a higher base and we see that same trend each year.

04:30
Daniel Scharff
Okay, and so do you think that's just about number of consumers or do you think like me, if I try dry January, I'm going to do it and then I am going to like reset afterwards to drinking less in general and ordering maybe more non alk options from you?

04:45
Sean Goldsmith
I think we're going to see a lot of folks, as with kind of any New Year's resolution, there are going to Be some folks that bow out early and decide it's not for them. And we're going to see some folks that discover a drink that they really like or say hey, I've started drinking non alcoholic wine or non alcoholic cocktails Monday through Thursday at the home and I really like it and it's just going to be my routine now. So the good thing is the numbers are so large is we just need a small percentage of folks to stick around for it to be impactful for our business.

05:14
Daniel Scharff
Is there any interaction with Ozempic? I feel super cheesy for asking that question, but that's what everyone's talking about right now. Does that impact alcohol trends and non elk trends?

05:25
Sean Goldsmith
For sure. I'm no Ozempic expert and I haven't dug into it that deeply but I know that it definitely curbs appetite. It curbs alcohol cravings and discussions with some big strategics and food and beverage it is very much top of mind. So the highest levels it is shaping how these companies are thinking about strategy.

05:47
Daniel Scharff
I'm curious when it comes to things like non al offerings is the thinking that like yeah, people just aren't going to crave these kind of drinks in general and they're going to be craving water and you know, smoothies and stuff like that or. No, they are going to crave these options, just not the alcohol part of it. They're going to have a much easier time saying no to things like alcohol but they still want this kind of enjoyment and refreshment stuff that feels like a good time and indulgence, you know, party kind of drinks and they're going to want more of these options. I don't know the answer. I'm not an expert either. But I do wonder about these things.

06:21
Sean Goldsmith
Yeah, well I think there's something to just a complex adult beverage like if you and I go out on the town, probably don't want to have a milkshake while we're sitting around talking. Or not two of them at least.

06:35
Daniel Scharff
Well, I mean I do actually but yes, I can't. I can't.

06:38
Sean Goldsmith
I love, I love milkshakes. Next time I'm in New York we'll put that to the test.

06:43
Daniel Scharff
But you, by the way, you and I who recently both met up at a diner and were both eyeing that milkshake down like should we.

06:51
Sean Goldsmith
Seriously thought about it. No, I mean they want to gather and they want to have a drink that is, that feels special. That to your point is an indulgence and you know, so that's something that is not necessarily syrupy sweet and has some complex flavors and thoughts behind, but something that you can sip and savor.

07:10
Daniel Scharff
So. Okay, in front of me right now, since I'm talking to you, I have a couple non alk drinks in front of me and I've got the Guinness zero because I was told by one of my friends, Reuben, that this is the granddaddy of all non alk options. But Reuben is Irish also, which that could. He could be some bias there. And then I also have the athletic brewing, which I know you're a big fan of, in front of me as well. And I, you know, I just drank both of them. Guinness, I've never been a huge fan of, except when I lived in Scotland and had it there and it was like so fresh and fun because I'd been to the Guinness storehouse and like, reminded me of a lot of memories from that.

07:46
Daniel Scharff
But I don't know, maybe it's not cold enough for me or something. I feel like Guinness is way better when it's extra cold, which is a drink that I actually. They used to like, have one option that was extra cold at the bar.

07:56
Sean Goldsmith
That's cool.

07:57
Daniel Scharff
And then I have. So I have this athletic brewing one, which I don't know. Yeah, for me, it actually, yeah, it's pretty close. Not that I ever drank fancy beer, so I think it's not so hard for it to get right on for the kind of like, down market beer that I drank. Like, you know, pilsners, Natty light, whatever. It definitely gets in that. You know, it satisfies that.

08:15
Sean Goldsmith
And I'm like, non alk. Non alk. Natty Light.

08:18
Daniel Scharff
Yeah. Oh, yeah, that would be a good one. I would definitely. I would drink that ironically and actually probably enjoy it. And I would shotgun it and probably get competitive about that. When I'm drinking this, though, I'm just asking myself, like, why am I drinking? It's a beautiful thing, this movement of people switching away from alk. But why do they drink the non alk drinks? The same way that, like, why do people drink ollipop and poppy and the things that remind them of things that. From their childhood or these past things, and they like those better than just, hey, I just made some new kind of drink that you don't really know what this is and categorize it. And for me, reflecting on it, like, why would I drink this athletic or something in this profile, which is.

08:56
Daniel Scharff
It's not a taste you grew up with, but in College, at least for me. It definitely is something that I drank a lot. I don't know. I think it just reminds me of all of those times. I actually really did not like the taste of beer when I first started drinking it. But then it like becomes like water when you're in college for me anyways. And so I would drink it with friends just to bring some of that memory back because we had so many fun times, obviously when we had all that free time and all of my memories of winning Flip cup and having good times. And so it just reminds me of that. It's not like I would drink this and be like this. I just love the taste of this so much. But there probably are people who are like that.

09:34
Daniel Scharff
What do you think? You know a lot more about this than I do.

09:37
Sean Goldsmith
Occasion for beverage is super important. Dialing into when people are drinking this and why. And going back to the point that I was making before. Throughout history, people have gathered together and shared moments with a special beverage. And that goes back a long time. So I think that it's just deeply grained in us as humans to want to mark occasions, mark times of day with a beverage. And I think a very common one is the happy hour drink. You know, you get off work and you want to blow off some steam. And if you don't want to have alcohol, what is it? You still want something a little bit more special, a little bit more elevated. And if you're not a beer drinker, then non alcoholic beer probably isn't that for you.

10:24
Sean Goldsmith
But maybe a non alcoholic glass of sparkling wine or a non alcoholic cocktail that's got some bitterness or some spice, you know, something just to kind of, to jolt you a little bit.

10:34
Daniel Scharff
I really like how you put that. I'm just reflecting on it. Like, why would I order this with a friend instead of us both sitting there and drinking waters? It would mark something. Yeah, it would be like, no, we're doing this because it's a special occasion where I get to see my friend and I want to mark that and I want to celebrate it. Or I had a hard day today and we got through something and I want to celebrate it a little bit. And this is. Yeah, it's not just, okay, like, we have waters, like, where's the celebration? Where's the marking of that? So that makes sense to me. Thank you. That helps me understand it. So as we get into this, you obviously have a big history in this industry and a personal journey as well.

11:09
Daniel Scharff
Can we just go back to please hit me with the origin story of zero proof and explain for everybody what it is. Sure.

11:17
Sean Goldsmith
So I was living in New York and was working in finance and quit my job. Didn't know what was next. But while I was in New York, was just doing the wellness thing, being healthy, watching what I ate, doing a lot of yoga and surfing and meditating and just woke up one morning and decided I didn't want to drink alcohol. And that has now turned into six years without alcohol. So dry January does stick for some folks. Then my best friend from high school, a guy named Trevor Wolf, similarly took a break from drinking. And so were just talking as friends, like, why are we doing this? What are we doing? Do we want to drink alcohol? Man, we feel really great when we don't and we're sleeping well and losing weight and all of these things. So we just started a blog.

12:04
Sean Goldsmith
We were curious about this category. There were a couple of products that were out there, Athletic being one of them. Ritual. We thought it was cool. We wanted to learn more. So we started writing about it. And people were reading the vlog and we're like, oh, maybe we should try to sell them something. So we popped up a quick e comm shop and bought a few products. And people bought them like, oh, geez. And so it was all very organic for us. And fast forward today. The ZeroProof.com is the largest online retailer for adult non el. And we have a number of brands that we also are wholesaling.

12:41
Daniel Scharff
That is amazing. And talk about being ahead of a trend as well that's now just starting to capture so much steam. And I guess just going back one more time from a consumer perspective, I think there are a lot of people out there that kind of want to do dry January, but they don't quite get over the ledge on doing it. Like, I don't. I mean, I don't know. I'm just not going to do it. Then they forget about it. Is there something that you find to be really helpful to help people who are thinking about it to actually give it a shot? Something that you typically would say to them or like some resource that a lot of consumers come to you from? I'm like, yeah, this is a thing that convinced me to give it a shot.

13:19
Sean Goldsmith
I think more than anything, it's. It's really just like brute force. Especially right now. Every major online publication has been writing about drinking, has been writing about dry January. And it's been this way for years, throughout the year. I mean, every month is some new not drinking, month sober. October, dry January. I should probably know more, but I know there are more. And I think with something like this you're not going to force it on somebody, but it's just repeatedly being exposed to it. When the time is right, when you do have that kid or you are extra stressed at work or whatever it is in your personal situation that clicks. You know, the category is here and we'll be here.

14:04
Daniel Scharff
Yeah, you're totally right. Just like with any kind of marketing, right? This is, hey, a different thing that is maybe being marketed to you that you just like, I need to hear about this seven times and then I'm gonna give it a shot. You know, that classical way. I also wonder like what percent of people actually have something like a health scare or something like that is actually the thing that gets them to be like, you know what, I should give this a shot because I'm not feeling good or I had a particularly bad scare where I really didn't feel good. And I think maybe it has something to do with alcohol.

14:32
Sean Goldsmith
I can't give you a percentage. I mean I would say it's a small percentage. A good friend just texted me the other night and I think it was her father in law or something who can't drink anymore for medical reasons and loves red wine. So I sent her to our red wine bundle so she could buy a bunch of different bottles of red for, you know, her family member. But if you look at the stats, it's over 90% of the people that are buying these drinks are alcohol drinkers and they're still drinking alcohol. They're just drinking less alcohol and wanting to replace that occasion with something.

15:05
Daniel Scharff
I love it. Okay, and can you help me understand what are they drinking exactly? Because I know about some of the options out there but I really don't have a good sense for how many people are choosing to drink non alk beers versus the RTD options that are out there versus some of the spirits that we've seen and the wine options because I know you guys have a pretty nice variety on zeroproof.com yes.

15:28
Sean Goldsmith
So if you look at the pie chart of the adult NA category, it's over 80% beer. Beer is the lion's share of non elk. It's been around the longest. It has the most retail penetration. Next is wine which is nicely time sipped there.

15:45
Daniel Scharff
Thank you.

15:46
Sean Goldsmith
This is wine enjoying this and wine is 15 plus percent. And then there's spirits and cocktails which are very small. So that's how the pie chart breaks down and you're seeing the fastest growth in the Spirits and RTDs category. It's like triple digit growth a year, but from a lower base.

16:10
Daniel Scharff
Okay, so then maybe just from an overall dollar perspective of growth, even though beer is not triple digit growth, probably still contributing the most absolute value growth or no.

16:21
Sean Goldsmith
Yes, for sure.

16:22
Daniel Scharff
Okay, that's interesting. I mean, it makes a lot of sense because if we all just say, hey, name some of the non alk brands that you know, probably the beer. Some of these beer ones like athletic are going to be some of the ones that are, that have captured a lot of share, captured a lot of the attention. And I know for anyone interested, if you go back into the history of our podcast and listen to an episode with Dan Kopman, who is my cousin, he's part of the World brewers alliance and he talks a lot about the history of non alk, especially beer in Europe versus the US and how the share of non alk beer in Europe is actually triple what it is here.

16:55
Daniel Scharff
And it's just in part like, it just shows the potential for especially I think, non alk beer because it can be shown to be so much higher in other places. And when I lived there in my 20s, I would be at a bar and there would be like just a lot of people ordering non alk beers. Like it was nothing. It was not a weird thing, it was not a bold choice. It's just like, oh yeah, I want to have a good time. I'm going to get that non alk beer for. And you don't have to explain yourself. So it's encouraging, right, to see the potential.

17:21
Sean Goldsmith
Yeah. And the market is so much more advanced in Europe where if you go there, you have non alk sets and every major retailer, every major grocery store and every on premise menu and they're probably a decade ahead. So we've got a long way to go here in the States. And today if you look at the stats, the entire N A market is about 1%, probably under 1% the size of the alcohol market.

17:49
Daniel Scharff
It does seem like it's trailing. Just like I'll go out with my dad a lot and he will usually try to order a non alk beer. And it blows my mind now when it's a nice place that doesn't have an option. And I feel like at restaurants usually they will be like, oh, but we can make some fancy $20 mocktail for you because you know they're interested in that. But like, oh, just a non alk beer that Tastes good. No, we don't have that in one of our precious taps.

18:12
Sean Goldsmith
Yeah, well, Athletic has done a very good job. I mean especially going around New York. They, there's a Mexican restaurant called Atla that my wife and I used to eat at all the time that's kind of a high end Mexican joint down in Noho. And I asked them for a non alk, what they had for non alk and they're carrying Athletic. So I mean they've really cut across.

18:34
Daniel Scharff
Athletic does do a nice job and also I think just as a novice drinker of it just tastes pretty clean I guess as far as beer goes. Like there aren't any odd ingredients on there. Pretty, pretty, just smooth like kind of does the job. Has the kick that you expect. So can you tell me a little bit more about who is drinking each of these different kinds of drinks? Who is the kind of consumer that's more likely to buy beer that's non alk versus the spirits that are non alk versus the wine, for example.

19:06
Sean Goldsmith
I'll speak kind of generally and maybe not in a way that you're asking, but I'll share some information that I do have. So it seems like the non alcoholic spirits, the larger format bottles, those are really winning out on premise restaurants and bars. That's, that's the use case. Whereas the RTDs, the can cocktails, those are individual consumers. They're taking those home, stocking them in the fridge and when they want their non alk drink, they're just cracking the can and drinking it.

19:36
Daniel Scharff
Okay. And I wonder. So like the big spirits like Seed Lip, obviously that was kind of the OG in and others who have those bigger formats which could be for. Because that's what people are putting on menus and bartenders like to craft something. Right. Or it's, or it's because that's what the consumers want and they don't necessarily want to just order an rtd.

19:57
Sean Goldsmith
Yeah, I think bartenders like to work with a spirit and also it's a great use case as a non drinker who loves to go out and dine when there's a bar or restaurant that has a really good program of non alk like it's a wonderful experience to try things that you would never make at home.

20:16
Daniel Scharff
Awesome. And then for beer, do you have anything to add on that about who you like? Who is the typical consumer of that versus things like RTDs?

20:26
Sean Goldsmith
Yeah, so overall, what we see, and I've channel checked this with other friends in the industry, it's about 65% female and millennial in age is what's really driving our trend right now.

20:42
Daniel Scharff
For overall. Not for one of those. One specific.

20:44
Sean Goldsmith
Overall. Overall. And so we do not sell beer online. And. But I would say that beer, I would guess, leans more masculine. That makes sense in terms of the consumer.

20:59
Daniel Scharff
Yes, that makes sense to me in my anecdotal experience from who was drinking the most beer in college and might still be interested in having that nostalgia. Okay, so can we get into zero proof a little bit more? So you don't have non alk beer, which having run a beverage company and I know how much that like cans like that size weigh and the price points, that kind of makes sense to me from a consumer perspective as well. Yeah. Hard to ship, expensive to buy. Okay. I guess. Especially if you're buying a lot of it. Okay, so for the many brands out there that are interested to work with zero proof, the largest online seller of non al, how does it actually work? How do they get on your radar? How does it work to actually work with you?

21:41
Daniel Scharff
Obviously they would love to get access to all of these consumers who are coming to you.

21:46
Sean Goldsmith
Yeah. Well, so it all starts with the product. We have to try the product. We get samples, we try it as a team, we discuss it. And even in our small category, as you have probably seen and listeners have probably seen, there are a lot of entrants and a lot of new entrants all the time. So helping us understand why your product is different. If we have 20 different non alk cocktails, help us understand why we should be looking at yours in addition to what we already have. What's the value to our customer? Because ultimately that's what we're interested in, is providing the best drinks to our customers. So, you know, I think pretty simply that's the way one.

22:27
Daniel Scharff
So one question, which is do people come to your platform and then decide what to get from what you offer, or is it sometimes they're looking for a particular offering and that leads them to your platform because you're a great way for them to buy it. The same way when there's something I want to buy, like maybe they might direct me to their Amazon site?

22:46
Sean Goldsmith
I think it's a little bit of both. I mean, people that are more informed, that have an idea of what they're looking for, that are doing searches, they're going to find us and they're going to find that product. But also we are pretty prolific marketers, pretty prolific advertisers, and we always have ads with a number of various products that we're putting in front of people, and I'm making them aware of our different offerings and. And that brings a lot of people in as well. But what is always fun to see is even though we're. We're marketing on a. On an individual product, and you've probably seen our ads at some point, but it's usually a person holding a bottle of something talking about it, they're buying a lot more than just that one product.

23:24
Sean Goldsmith
So it's cool because there's a clearly an interest in the space, there's an interest in exploring the category. So there's a big benefit to coming to a website like ours where you might see an ad for a bottle of red wine, but then say, oh, you know, I really wanted to try this sparkling, and I really wanted to have this cocktail and a, B, C and D. And you can build a cart.

23:44
Daniel Scharff
Okay, so that's very interesting. You're actually running ads on people's products who your store. So probably there are a couple products that are getting some free marketing from you that way, right. Because you're using it to find new consumers for your store to buy their product on your platform, Is that right?

24:03
Sean Goldsmith
That is right. And it can be very beneficial for those brands.

24:07
Daniel Scharff
I wonder, like, you might be open to some pitches from people who might just actually send you the proof of that. Like, hey, look at this video we're running on our site, which has this redundancy, ridiculous return. And people are so interested in this demo that we do it, which is like, how you guys do it, that if you run ads on our product this way, it's going to be the best performing thing you ever do. Is that possible?

24:29
Sean Goldsmith
Yeah. I mean, listen, if people want to create content for us, then that's fantastic.

24:33
Daniel Scharff
That's amazing. Because if I were working with you, it would never even occur to me that could be an option. But that is like the thing that you so desperately want, right? If you're selling into a physical retailer, you're in sprouts, like, wherever, like, the chance to actually get on their Instagram and reach their consumers and increase your velocity and orders is amazing. So I hope anybody who is working with you or thinking about it checks out that tip. I think that's a really cool one that benefits everybody. And honestly, with startup cbg, we kind of do the same thing sometimes. Like, we've had some people who have just done the best demo ever of their product with beautiful lighting, and it was extremely organic and awesome.

25:12
Daniel Scharff
And then we have actually promoted some of those posts as we're looking to spread the word about startup CBG to more brands. And those have been just some of the absolute best performing content that we've had. And everyone kind of wins in those instances, so makes a lot of sense to me. Okay, so people are pitching you all the time, right? They're like coming to your website, they're hitting you on LinkedIn, they're talking to friends of yours, trying to get in front of you. Right. Any other ways that you typically are hearing about brands or that they get a chance to send you samples?

25:40
Sean Goldsmith
I don't know how, but more and more samples show up at our office. Like, people are just doing their research, finding our address, and like every day boxes and boxes show up. So there are some good sleuths out there. But yeah, if for anyone listening, just shoot us an email at hello@thezeroproof.com and it'll find its way to the right people.

26:00
Daniel Scharff
I have a feeling that email will find its way to a lot of people after this. That's a, that's great. Thank you for giving that out. Okay. And so they send you samples, you decide if it is a fit for your consumers, and then how does it work? Are you typically going to place a certain order with brands? You know, what do you need from them in terms of pricing or marketing support to make sure that they're going to do well with you?

26:25
Sean Goldsmith
Yeah, I mean, we do require a fair amount of margin because it's very expensive to run the business that we run and do the level of advertising that we do. So we like a healthy margin and we definitely love it when our partners will chip in and, you know, reinvest some of the profits into our marketing activities. Because going back to what you were talking about with beer, you know, we're shipping heavy, relatively low value and breakable things in the mail, so the margins are slim.

26:56
Daniel Scharff
And in terms of pricing, you try to hit their regularly advertised pricing, is that right?

27:01
Sean Goldsmith
Yeah, we stick with SRP in almost every case.

27:04
Daniel Scharff
Okay, pun intended. There we go. All right. Every case. So when we. So then backing out from that's good for brands to understand. So you're gonna try to hit the same price that they have, not what some retailers would do, which is just, hey, sell it to us forever. And we will add our markup. It's going to be astronomical. Whatever. You're going to try to hit the reference price there and then you're going to need a fair amount of margin off that. Right. So then are you asking them then immediately like hey, just tell me a delivered price shipping to us or do you guys pick stuff up? How does that work?

27:36
Sean Goldsmith
We would prefer to have it delivered.

27:38
Daniel Scharff
Okay, and your warehouse is where again.

27:41
Sean Goldsmith
Right now it's in Atlanta.

27:43
Daniel Scharff
Okay. So that's good for everyone to know. You can price that stuff out like what it would cost and you're. And let's say you're starting with a new brand. What size of orders are you typically looking at? Like a mixed pallet. A pallet, a couple pallets.

27:55
Sean Goldsmith
It depends on the brand and how we think it will do. But an opening order of a pallet is not unusual. We usually start smaller, test things out. So I doubt we'd order less than 30 cases. But if something works, there are brands that we're placing six figure POS with on a regular basis.

28:15
Daniel Scharff
Okay, cool. And just to put in an unsolicited good word for zero proof, I do not know a lot about the non elk space, but when I talk to people who do know, what they say is like zero proof is the one who is the people who move the most volume for us. We love working with them. So we do know that about people. So it's great to hear. So is there something else on top of the pricing part? Like hey, I just wish that every brand who is interested to work with us or reaches out to me, I wish they knew this about us. Like whether it's a way to talk to you about it or a way to think about your business or a way to approach you or the kind of information you're going to want.

28:49
Sean Goldsmith
Yeah, well, some very basic things like having all of the information about your product readily at hand, the dimensions, the weights, all of the ingredients, just like you were submitting to any other retailer. All of that is very important and very helpful for us. And same like the more content you can give us, the more photographs, the more copy, the more you can teach us right off the bat about your product, the better it makes our lives easier. And after that make something delicious. Make something that our customers are going to want and that we're excited to try and that is different.

29:23
Daniel Scharff
Makes a lot of sense. Okay, and so of the brands that you've worked with, are there a couple that really stand out to you of they came in and have just done a bang up job with us. Like they supported us in the right way and the marketing went well and they're turning really well.

29:38
Sean Goldsmith
Yeah. So a few brands, Oddbird and Ish are two of the brands that we import. And so, I mean we have a deep relationship with them and a deep partnership. But you know, we have seen significant volume and significant growth with them investing alongside us and building their brands through the website. Another is Lights, which is a non alcoholic wine brand. Giessen, another non alcoholic wine brand. Those both do very well and you know, they are willing to invest in helping us produce content and drive some velocities for their product and to kind of wrap that up. We sell a lot of non alcoholic wine, so we have seen a lot of non alcoholic wine brands wanting to step up and support to continue that growth.

30:25
Daniel Scharff
So do you, what bold predictions do you have for this space? You probably know more about it from a product perspective than most people out there. What are the things that you think we'll see or that you really want to see in the next couple years to really drive this totally into the mainstream?

30:39
Sean Goldsmith
I think it's nothing revolutionary, it's just continued improvement in the products. This category is still so new and so young and relatively unfunded that as it continues to grow and it is growing rapidly, we're going to see more money involved, we're going to see more serious players involved, we're going to see the technology improve and so creating a non alcoholic wine that tastes exactly like the real thing and just getting to parody with these drinks where they're so good that people don't feel that they're missing out on anything by drinking the non alcoholic version other than the rough morning.

31:19
Daniel Scharff
Yeah. And getting sleepy. I think actually that's probably like for me if I'm drinking non elk, it's like one. I don't want to be sleepy and I want to be on my game. When I'm talking to people I hate if I'm trying to have a conversation with someone, I'm just like, this is. No, I'm better than this. Come on. I need to be on like I shouldn't drink this and I'm going to get tired and then just my brain will get sloppy. And then yeah, to the part about being hungover. So there we go. Cool. And then just for your business, I don't know, maybe on a more personal level, like what's, what is your dream for zero proof? What do you think it can be? What do you hope it will be?

31:56
Sean Goldsmith
My dream for the zero Proof is for it to be the number one resource for anyone wanting to learn more about adult NA or purchase adult NA through channel. Regardless of channel, whether it's through our website, Amazon retail. So to be the leading platform for non alk as the continues to grow.

32:21
Daniel Scharff
All right, well it seems like you already are so dream achieved but hopefully we're getting there. Okay. All right, Sean, so maybe just to wrap us up here, if people are looking to catch you in person somewhere, what are good places to find you? Are you hitting the trade shows? They could try to run into you or see if they could meet you there. Are you at Expo? Are you at Fancy? Are you at some of the adult non alk stuff? Where, where do you hang out?

32:45
Sean Goldsmith
Yeah, at the office in Atlanta is where I usually am. But no, we'll be at Expo west. So I'll be there roam in the halls and was just at bevnap and had a really great time and we'll definitely be heading to that as well. So yeah, we'll be around and also we'll likely announce on our Instagram which is at the zero proof where you can find us.

33:09
Daniel Scharff
Amazing. All right, well thank you so much. I really recommend a chat for anybody who's interested to reach out to Sean. And thank you so much for joining us here and I'm really excited to work with you guys also to help you all find some brands. I know we have some exciting programming stuff planned with you to help all the brands who are interested to get to meet you. So thank you very much and I hope everybody got as much out of this as I did. Bye everybody.

33:34
Sean Goldsmith
Thanks.

33:39
Daniel Scharff
All right everybody, thank you so much for listening to our podcast. If you loved it, I would so appreciate it if you could leave us a review. You could do it right now if you're an Apple. Podcasts, you can scroll to the bottom of our Startup CPG podcast page and click on Write a review. Leave your company name in there. I will try to read it out. If you're in Spotify, you can click on about and then the star rating icon. If you are a service provider that would like to appear on the Startup CPG podcast, you can email us@partners startupcpg.com lastly, if you found yourself grooving along to the music it is my band. You could can visit our website and listen to more. It is superfantastics.

34:18
Daniel Scharff
Com.

34:19
Daniel Scharff
Thank you everybody. See you next time.