The Startup CPG Podcast

The cool thing is when you look at the set, there's. Which is the assortment, the shelves. There's so many different bottles and label styles. Some are more feminine, some are more masculine. Some, you know, there's like, all sorts of stuff going on. So there's something for you, right? And I, I think that's the cool thing about wine is, is that you can move in the grape that you like or in the section that you like and experiment.

00:37
Daniel Scharff
Hello, and welcome to another buyer spotlight on the startup CPG podcast. I am so excited about today's guests because it's Total Wine and more, the 300 store chain, the largest independent retailer of spirits and wine in the US We've got Michael Lowery, who's the VP of Global Spirit Sourcing, andrea Starr, senior director of merchandising. In today's episode, we're going to talk all about their store history, how their consumers shop stores, the role of e commerce, how do they look for new brands and spirits, beer, wine, snacks, and more. I am so excited they were able to join us. Hope you love this episode. Here we go. All right, welcome to the show. I am so excited for brands to learn all about Total Wine and More. There are so few national retailers out there.

01:25
Daniel Scharff
When you're a brand and you're trying to think, like, how can I make my product available everywhere? This is one of those options, and it's such an interesting one, especially for people who are in kind of the bev al mocktail space, but also for a lot of CPG brands that are interested in that national coverage as well. A lot of people out there think they would be a great fit for these kind of stores. So thank you guys so much for joining us today. Honestly, I think this is one of the biggest knowledge gaps, I think, in the industry is brands understanding how Total Wine works and how they can apply for you guys, how they can do well with you guys. So I really feel like it's a huge privilege to get to bring this knowledge out there to our community.

02:04
Daniel Scharff
So maybe we could just start with some intros. Michael, do you mind kicking us off?

02:08
Michael Lowry
Not at all. I'm Michael Lowery. I lead Global Spirit Sourcing for Total Wine and More. And in that capacity, I sort of travel all over the world trying to find new liquids, new brands, and kind of grab up those stories that. That are specific to Producer. Because one of our principal things at Total Wine and More is engaging customers, and the way we like to do that is having a really rich engagement that is filled with all those details from the sourcing that we do. So being able to encounter a customer, share something that's really special about a Scotch whiskey or a brandy or Kentucky bourbon that you may not know, and it may be a reason to buy.

02:47
Michael Lowry
And so I scour the earth, uncovering all of the stones and the little liquids and the people that really have something wonderful that they're creating. And I try to tell their story.

02:58
Daniel Scharff
All right. And Michael, what might we find you winding down and enjoying from a drinking perspective on a weekend night, end of a long workday, however you choose? What's your poison?

03:09
Michael Lowry
Oh, God, won't you find me drinking? So I've always enjoyed spirits and come from a family that has, I think, since I was a little kid. My parents gathered for cocktails from earliest memory, and so it was a time of sharing, a time of, you know, what happened, what went on during your day. So for me, cocktails is celebratory and also a reason to gather. And it's one of our mottos of the company, bringing people together for joyful experiences. And so I think for me, you define me drinking a bourbon of some sort, especially an Old Fashioned or even a black Manhattan, which I crave when I travel overseas. I drink everything everywhere. But sometimes when I'm home, a bourbon gives me kind of that sort of warming feeling like I'm home.

03:50
Daniel Scharff
That sounds really good. I love old fashions also. My rule for them when I'm out is if I'm thinking about ordering it, if the bar that I'm in has TVs, then I don't order it because I feel like if there's TVs, they're high volume and it's going to be a bad Old Fashioned. It's going to have that, like that cherry that's not as good that you would find it like a. I don't know, TGI Fridays or something. I want like the high quality one. What do you think about that rule?

04:13
Michael Lowry
I think it's a good rule in general. I sort of try to find and see if they have a gun. You know what I mean? Like, if everything. They pour.

04:19
Daniel Scharff
The soda gun.

04:20
Michael Lowry
Yeah. And so if they have that, then I'm sort of like, I'll have a seltzer out of that gun, but that's about it.

04:26
Daniel Scharff
Yeah. If I see the TVs or the soda gun, I would just order like two kind of ingredient thing. Like, okay, I could have a bourbon and ginger, something like simple, but nothing that would require a lot of craft. Because there's going to be premix. I don't know. Okay, Andrea, coming to you now. So do you mind just doing your intro as well? What are you up to at Total Wine? And same question, what do you like to wind down with? What's your drink of choice?

04:50
Andrea Starr
Yeah, absolutely. So like Michael, I've been with Total Wine for a while, almost 18 years now. I've actually kind of bopped around the company a bit. But for the last five years I've sat in the merchandising team. I work today in our office. Not quite as exciting, not globe hopping like Michael, but I do cover our beer hard beverage, which is Seltzer, canned cocktails, FMBs business, as well as our emerging THC space, non alcoholic mixers and our staff business as well. So really my business is all about growth and trend. So really my team and what I do a lot of is looking at the trends, understanding what's growing, where we are on the maturity curve and really making sure that we have the right selection that's hitting that sweet spot for what's new and hot right now.

05:35
Andrea Starr
And then of also of course, having all those old favorites, every traditional favorites that people expect to see on our shelves.

05:40
Daniel Scharff
All right. And then your drink of choice to celebrate or come together or wind down, whatever it is you do with it.

05:47
Andrea Starr
Yeah. So like Michael, I love my categories. I'm a Midwesterner, I love beer. So you can definitely find me drinking a beer is summertime. So Plug's my favorite beer. Love and Oberon, great summer beer. Otherwise definitely do hit the seltzer sometimes. And honestly I don't actually drink that much. I love hop waters. I love non alcoholic beer and quite frankly, non alcoholic cocktailing. Making my own mocktails is really fun too.

06:11
Daniel Scharff
All right, perfect. So I'm really excited to especially get into some of those THC questions since you guys definitely are on the forefront of a very hot emerging category there. But could we just start out with a little bit of a total wine overview? So can you tell me all about the chain, what it encompasses, what you guys are up to in general? Michael?

06:32
Michael Lowry
Sure. And I think Andrea and I will kind of maybe split this a little bit. So. 6 billion in sales. 300 about stores. The bulk of those stores sell beer, wine and spirits. We do have some states like North Carolina and Virginia where we only sell beer and wine, but that's pretty limited. Founded by two brothers and still owned entirely by two brothers more than 30 years ago. When I show the charts to our suppliers, they're like Is that real? I'm like, yep. And it was really aided by a couple of things. One is that we had this idea of being, I'm going to use the word Costco in spirits, wine and beer and really bringing that in a huge store footprint for our customers. So it was one place, like an adult, like kind of Playland.

07:17
Michael Lowry
Like you could show up and be like, holy crap, they've got all the brands I love, they've got all the categories I love, and it's really nice to be in here and there's people that could help me. And so very committed to service, to selection and to best price. And that strategy allowed us to really expand our footprint rapidly. And we're now in about 30 states and growing every year more and more. So that's sort of like the overview. Andrea, do you want to give some 18 year insight into what I just said?

07:46
Andrea Starr
Yeah, I think over the years, we're a big company now. I think most people consider sick building a pretty big company. But we really do continue to act like a startup. We're really nimble. We want to be able to pivot and chase those times, like I said earlier, as fast as we possibly can. So I think we have a really great culture. We're always talking to new suppliers. Does that matter your size? We want to see what's out there, what's new, what's interesting. And I think that resonates with our customers. Right? They know that they can come to us and find wine looks new and fun and fresh. And then we have our SOAR team members too.

08:17
Andrea Starr
We have great service, our SOAR team members, we educate them, making sure that they understand the products that are on our shelves and can talk to our customers knowledgeably, make great recommendations, help them craft their own cocktails, plan events. So I think part of that experience is so important to what Total Wine is.

08:34
Daniel Scharff
It's pretty interesting to hear you talk about the education part and the meteoric rise as well of Total Wine. For me, growing up, I would go with my parents when they were entertaining and they would go to the store to get the wine, the same store they would always go to. And they would always go up to one of the people working in the store and just let them know what they were doing, what the occasion was, and get a recommendation from them. And I think because they wanted something that would be good quality and also get a good recommendation on like price point, because they were going to buy for entertaining, let's say half a dozen bottles, something like that, and they just really Relied on the person to know.

09:08
Daniel Scharff
And I think it's something about like, if you're not a total pro on wine, it's hard to know. There's so many different kinds of wine out there. And even if you don't know a lot about the grape varietals and all that stuff, you definitely aren't going to know about all the different brands within them and the years and all that stuff. And so it's not like they had a relationship with a specific person there, but that was the muscle memory was go into the store, ask the person there and just trust them. And then you know you like the wine and then you come back obviously and do the same thing. Is that pretty common, do you think, for how people come in and typically shop at Total Wine?

09:41
Daniel Scharff
Are they people like that who are really like coming in and asking things or is it more people who are coming in and like they have specific stuff they're looking for and they just know you have great assortment and price points and all of that?

09:52
Andrea Starr
Yes, I did work in our stores for several years, so I can talk a little bit about my experience, but I want to start with our jingle. So find what you love what you find. And that sums up our customer base, right? You might be coming for a specific product and you know we want to have that for you or you might be looking to explore and we have that for you as well. And when you were talking about getting the recommendations from the store team members, I think we see everyone, we see the novice person who's just looking to try something for the first time, somebody who's coming in, trying to impress their boss or a guest, somebody who wants to host a party and then all the way up to the connoisseur who knows more than you do.

10:25
Andrea Starr
And that's part of our education too, like making sure that if we have that knowledgeable guest, being respectful of that and understanding and guiding them to the best of our ability. So we really do see it all and it's really fun On a day to day basis working in our stores, you can really delight somebody and help them find something that's price friendly in their price range and they come back and find you and tell you how much they liked it and can you recommend something new. Like that was the most satisfying experience for me in our stores and I know that it happens every single day in our stores and I think that's wonderful.

10:54
Daniel Scharff
I love that. And you know, if I think back on me buying wine, then as I become an adult, I basically would always just want something that looked more expensive than it was. I would be like, oh, I'm going for dinner to somebody's house. And then I don't make a lot of money, but looks like it costs more than it does and hopefully they're not going to price check it. And I remember like in my 20s, I think the first thing was the yellow tail stuff or it was just like, okay, yeah, like that's real cheap, but it looks a little bit nicer than it is. Or the barefoot stuff that was out then.

11:25
Daniel Scharff
And then I think, like now I'm older and I have more of an opinion on what kind of wine I like and it'll be more specific and I know the kind of regions that I like as well. But I would still, I don't know, even today I'm probably looking at that. I've just like to have it at the party, but I want it to feel special, so I want it to like, look pretty nice. I don't know. So for me, that would be one of the purchase drivers, honestly, is just how does the bottle look and does it look like it's a special kind of quality? But I bet I'm not alone in that.

11:50
Daniel Scharff
I bet there are a lot of people who come in and they don't know, but they're like, I want it to look like, nice because we are commemorating something probably in a lot of instances, or it's a special occasion, or you're invited to a party and you're excited and you want to make a good impression. Right. But that probably just goes back to the importance overall of marketing and design in the spirits and wine industry. What do you think, Michael, when you're out there looking to discover, scour the earth for stuff, how much is that playing a part in your discovery process?

12:17
Michael Lowry
Well, I think this is a really touch point for me because I spend so much of my time building brands within Total Wine. And I think what you guys were talking about a second ago, if I like Pinot Noir and I come in and I like. I know I like Pinot Noir and I've been drinking Mark west and it's not that expensive. And now I find a bottle that looks a little bit more expensive and it's Pinot Noir, I'm probably going to move that way or I'm going to have one of our members say, if you like Mark west, you're going to love this. And it's two bucks cheaper and it still looks great and I'm going to try it because now I Can save a couple of bucks.

12:49
Michael Lowry
So we are really good about organizing our assortment in a way where you can go up, you can go over, you can go down, and you can stay within a varietal that you really like, varietal being the grape. Or if I'm you and I am. I like rose and I'm now in the section and I'm just looking for a great looking bottle, man, and I'm going to take it to a party and I don't want people to think that I skim. And so the cool thing is when you look at the set, there's. Which is the assortment, the shelves. There's so many different bottles and label styles. Some are more feminine, some are more masculine. You know, there's like all sorts of stuff going on. So there's something for you, right?

13:27
Michael Lowry
I think that's the cool thing about wine, is that you can move side to side, stay in the grape that you like or in the section that you like, and experiment. When you get over to spirits, wow, things really shift. And now you have all these bespoke bottles. You have all these, like, crazy. No, no, no. Only Bombay gin looks like this and only Laphroaig Scotch tastes like this. And so there's a lot more barriers to entry, to understanding what I need to buy in that space and what it's going to taste like. And if you're going to tell me that this scotch is like that one, is it really going to be. Am I going to be disappointed? And I get concerned about that.

14:03
Daniel Scharff
I.

14:03
Michael Lowry
Whereas I don't feel that way so much in. Over in Pinot Noir, because I know I like that grape. So I think that the challenge for our team members at store is how do I engage a customer and get them feeling comfortable enough that I really can be a guide to them, a trusted guide, where when they come back, they're like, hey, I really appreciate you putting me in to that gin that you just got in from Britain. It was fantastic. And, you know, a lifelong Bombay drinker, but I really love that. So now you really have somebody. You have a customer who you're like, okay, I've got the next thing for you. Come on with me. And I think that's really exciting and it's a fun way to move customers around.

14:40
Daniel Scharff
So let me ask you one question about the design. I've never thought about the branding that way. Probably it's obvious to a lot of people, but about how things can be more feminine or masculine. And that resonates with me because Actually, in the early days of startup cpg, were called SF cpg. And I just had this design off Fiverr or something that was, like, red and black and kind of looked like an ESPN logo or something. And designer looked at it and said, that's very masculine. Do you know that it might be a little polarizing? I was like, whoa, I never thought of that. Oh, yeah, actually, you're right. Okay, I get that. And so I'm interested in just thinking about how that translates in your world. So can you carry through the example for me a little bit?

15:18
Daniel Scharff
So if we take, let's say, maybe the vodka set, like, how do you feel about some of the brands that are well known that are out there then in terms of the branding and, like, how it would appeal to somebody who saw it for the first time, like Grey Goose or Kettle, or how do you feel like when you look at that? Can you illustrate that a little bit of, like, what people might think?

15:35
Michael Lowry
I think that there's. In CPG land, we talk about all those equities in pac, right? And I think in our business, liquid is probably your primary equity. But as you move into spirits and I, I call this out in particular because wine can be very delimited by region, by all sorts of things that say, no, no. You can only be in this shape bottle. There's all like champagne. As a good example, like, nope, you have to be in this bottle. And now you can play with the label a little bit, but you're limited. Whereas I go over to spirits, and there's all spark. It's sort of like, I can do anything I want. I can spend any kind of money. I think the equity that exists in a particular pack are extremely alluring.

16:11
Michael Lowry
And so if I call out a brand like Maker's Mark, most people who enjoy Maker's Mark, and I say most, are enjoy it because there are so many equities about the brand that signify. That's the one I love, the one I can count on. I know exact what to expect. So whether it's the red wax seal on the neck or the parchment label that has, like, all these kind of cool, like, little symbols and marks on it, and just the mascot itself, the marquee name itself, it's nice, big, bold. There's a ritual that I go through when I encounter a brand like that, or for that matter, Don Julio 1942 or closet Zul, that has the little metal top that I like to have a ring the bell every time I go to pour it, right?

16:52
Michael Lowry
So I think spirits have done a remarkable job of incorporating many different equities, whether it's an outer pack that I've got to open up first and get to the luxury that's inside the box. So I think there's all of these steps that I go through that become ritual for me. And if the brand that's being offered to me doesn't offer all those equities, then it seems less them. And so I think there's a real magic in spirits when you get this down and when brands like Macallan and others really own this and they take it into a lifestyle place, not everybody can do that. I know, Andrea, if you feel like there's a brand or something that pops up in your space that really kind of hits this. And I'm trying to think, like, who?

17:32
Andrea Starr
I mean, especially like the beer and hard beverage. Those are all about brand and no shade to the brands at the top. But I like to say the best liquid rarely wins in my space. It's all about the package, if that's what people go to. The differences between the liquids in some cases, like a seltzer product can be really minor. It might just be this one uses a little bit more flavor, a little bit stronger flavor, or this one's a little bit lighter. I think a brand like White Claw is really interesting. Right? It's just seltzer water. There's not that much interest to the product. I love the Marc Anthony brands. So again, no shade to the brand at all, but something, you know, they came out, they were one of the first on the shelf. They have that really clean white box.

18:12
Andrea Starr
They were really able to drive home the message that this is a low calorie product, it's a replacement for your beer occasions. And they won, and they continue to win. And I think packaging just drives that message. And they, you know, if you look over time, they have made small modifications to their package, but they are so careful to not change that. A lot of people came in with that white box, they tried to replicate it, and they just weren't able to break into the space. So I think that's branding is king in that beer and seltzer space. And, you know, there are some brands that just do a really great job with it and it resonates with the customer.

18:44
Daniel Scharff
I love these examples from both of you, and I hope it's a message that all the brands will pick up on just really how important the packaging is, which is always true in cpg. But I think more important than any other category probably in spirits, wine, beer. And you know, it's also the interesting thing to me is you actually have a lot of local beers, craft beers that even have labels on the can, which if you're any kind of other beverage for me, I'm like, don't do it. That looks really crappy. If you do that, it's going to look like some bush league, no pun intended for beer kind of product and you're not going to sell well. People are going to pick it up and be like this low quality.

19:19
Daniel Scharff
But in beer they actually do really well with that, like the local stuff. It's almost like a signal. It can be in a lot of instances that this is a local beer and you can love this and you know beer more than anything. I think when I hear retailers talk about like, we love local beer is the one that actually drives a lot of that because they develop such passionate local followings that can actually get people in a store if they like can find their favorite local beer that's present at events and field marketing all that stuff in their community and come in and actually buy that somewhere. So pretty interesting. I also like the other examples that you gave Michael around the Maker's Mark. For me, it's such an interesting brand because it's one of the few for me that is truly national.

19:59
Daniel Scharff
You can find it everywhere, mass produced, but it actually still feels craft and that's reflected in the name of it, like maker. Oh, the person who makes this. And I think the wax is even applied by hand.

20:10
Michael Lowry
Not that I'm, you know, trying to support beam, but it is. And if you've ever been to the distillery, having a home place where your brand is made, that's a 400 acre farm in Loretto, Kentucky and I visited it many times. It is truly like everything you would hope it would be, right? And so now that if you like makers to visit the distillery and to have that experience all wrapped up in place where people are like, welcome to Maker's Mark and it's that sort of thing just you walk away being a lifelong devotee of the brand and that's a really special thing to create and to have to maintain as the brand owner, to constantly build and protect and you have to be very careful about the choices that you've made.

20:49
Michael Lowry
There's been many times when I have made significant errors with a brand and really kind of hurt, injured the brand following and the goodwill that's out there because I just didn't know enough to say, oh no, don't do that. And so you see in our business, I think you see people making mistakes like this all the time, especially with like legacy brands where they might say, oh, it's time for a revamp and not really understanding your demographic or trying to move from one demographic that you've had to a new one can be really troubling. And so it's interesting to watch that happen when you have so many brands that you're responsible for at total one and more.

21:28
Daniel Scharff
I think there's a lot in what you just said and you know, I've worked a lot with people who come from some of those legacy companies. Like they're all very data focused people, you know, and they're running some of the biggest brands in the world. And when they see the data one way, of course it's going to be an instinct to follow the trends. But also a lot of times like those aren't the same people who actually built the brand and there just can be a real big disconnect and then you have marketers who are, I don't know, a lot of times I think it can be kind of like marketing by consensus or just things can get distilled. It's no longer a brand that's just led by like a founder creator who has the vision, like really holistically.

22:04
Daniel Scharff
And then, yeah, you can chase a trend and then make a huge mistake with a brand that's maybe just not going to grow in the way that it did before. And that's the reality, right? If you look at some of the biggest CPG companies out there, their products are not going to grow a ton anymore. They're going to have to grow by innovation acquisition, not like all of a sudden finding a new growth curve for their beer or whatever that everybody already knows about and has kind of stuck in their mind how it is. So anyway, it's pretty interesting to think about. And also I really liked what you said about the packaging flexibility because, yeah, even in the vodka set you have the one vodka that comes in the skull, the glass skull. Right.

22:41
Daniel Scharff
Which is pretty interesting and absolutely beloved in Canada, I think, and other places. Whereas in wine, champagne, you don't see a lot of variation there. Like the innovation might be a small bottle of wine or a bag, but increasing the quality of what's in the bag, stuff like that. But yeah, I haven't seen like a lot of wine in a shoe or, I don't know, something kind of interesting. Would you guys, would you just say no to something like that?

23:07
Michael Lowry
Not necessarily. I think there's a lot of things in the lockbox at the store that obviously, I'm not responsible for buying everything in the store, but when I go to see our lockboxes, I'm like, who approved that? Because I just don't know why and how that got there. And then I'll turn around, I'll walk down the aisle, I'll come back, and the lockbox is being opened, and somebody's buying that thing. And I'm like, okay, Just goes to show you. And so a motto that I think Andrea and I both use is, while we are buyers at heart, our personal tastes and what we think is delicious or not delicious actually matters a lot less. It's really about what we think will sell. And is there a market for. For it? And I would say, if anything, is the liquid faulty or not, that's different.

23:49
Michael Lowry
I think we have to be very good judges of whether or not we're dealing with something that's faulty or not properly produced or something that's different. We have to be excellent judges there. But beyond that, I think it's more of a. Should we test it? Should we blow it up? Should we. You know, what should we do? And what is even flavors? Everything else. I mean, I. I was in one of the trade shows I go to is Provine in Dusseldorf in Germany, and the owner of our company was traveling with, and he made me go over to the wine set with him to the wine halls, and we tasted a Dubai chocolate merlot. And I just said, you know, his name is Robert. And I just said, robert, really? Do I have to taste this?

24:26
Michael Lowry
And he said, michael, he said, this is about flavor. And I know. Maybe we'll talk about this in a little bit, Daniel, but I think flavor is enormously interesting spot and sort of something that is being amplified in ways that I never expected it to be in all the years I've been in the bev alk space. And it is happening. It's sort of capturing a flavor that you love in different channels. And that happened to be merlot. Was it Dubai chocolate? Yes. Was it a merlot grape? Yes. And is someone going to buy that? Yes. And so we have to buy it, and we have to carry it. And so, anyway, so I think that's sort of a fun part and also a really sort of frightening part of our job.

25:09
Daniel Scharff
But wait, Michael, did you like it, though?

25:12
Michael Lowry
It doesn't matter if I like it, Daniel.

25:14
Daniel Scharff
I know. I'm dying to know, though.

25:16
Michael Lowry
What matters is if I thought that the Dubai chocolate flavor resonated and if I Thought the Merlot Grape Channel that it was in was not faulty. And in that case, I would say it was a good product.

25:29
Daniel Scharff
Okay, cool. That's a good bar to have. Is not faulty. Andrea, what do you think? Do you want to build on that?

25:33
Andrea Starr
Yeah, absolutely. Personally, Michael, by the way, in your aisle, I love the tequila in the taco bottle. I think that's amazing. I haven't purchased it yet, but I like it. But, you know, in my world, that's a way to stand out, right? So my world is all about flavor. So think about product like Buzz balls or Beatbox. Those products came in well, first of all, they were not lightning bolts. They seemed like lightning bolts. They were not. Those brands have been around for a long time, and now they're getting their moment to shine. We call those products novelty, and they truly are, because would I have otherwise purchased a berry, cherry, lime, can of seltzer or F and B? I don't know. But it's in that ball. So people love those buzz balls. Like, it's really fun.

26:12
Andrea Starr
It captures people's attention and makes you walk over to the shelf and take a look and see what it is. Same with the Tetra packs. Having a unique perspective, having a different package on the shelf really does make a customer stop. It's disruptive. It makes somebody stop and think. And I like what Michael's just said about, you know, is this something we're going to test or is this something we're going to blow up? And as hard as my team tries, and I have a wonderful team, we cannot predict the trends. We don't know what TikTok is going to love. So we have to keep an open mind. So really, anything that comes our way, we're typically saying yes, unless we really think the product is, you know, to Michael's point, faulty or in some way problematic. So we're open to testing anything we know.

26:54
Andrea Starr
At any moment, something could blow up virally or it really resonates with the customer. Right. So we're more likely to say yes than not.

27:03
Daniel Scharff
It's probably this obvious for a lot of industry pros out there. For me, this is super interesting to learn about because, I mean, yeah, it just parallels a lot of what general kind of food buyers. They're going to be going to trade shows, and they're like, look, customers are demanding more protein stuff right now. So I am here looking for a lot of solutions for them, stuff that is packed with protein. Even though a lot of us might be like, it's a fad or whatever, like no, but people are buying that now and you need to have those options in the store. And then it's also.

27:30
Daniel Scharff
Yeah, I mean it just really interesting just to think about the shoppers because I'm curious, how many of your consumers do you think are coming in and doing kind of a weekly shop or a monthly shop and that's just where they come to buy anything, let's say alcohol related versus how many of them might do a general shop somewhere else. And then they're coming in more because there's a specific occasion that they're shopping for.

27:52
Michael Lowry
So I can probably start because I think our categories, wine, spirits, they're a little bit different. And a lot of times Total wine is trying to make sure that we're getting that shop, we're getting that visit because grocery, in many of our markets where grocery might carry beer and wine, it's rarer, they carry alcohol, but they might be getting some of that. It might be a one stop shop. Right. So we have to make sure that we're drawing that customer in and we do that with price, with selection and with customer engagement. So I would say to you that if I'm talking about Andrea can amplify this, but beer is more of a convenience item. So sometimes it is more frequent in the amount that you know, comes in.

28:33
Michael Lowry
And then when you get over to wine, also probably a little bit more frequency spirits, probably the least. And so what you see with heavy spirits shoppers is a monthly shop or a bi monthly shop, that sort of thing. And but the basket size is big and so that's very common. They see multiple bottles and then a lot of times there's crossover. There will be wine in that basket, there may be some beer in that basket. But it just depends a little bit on category for us. And I'm not even thinking dimensionally about the other categories that Andrea does. So Andrea, what do you think?

29:07
Andrea Starr
Yeah, we capture the spirit shop pretty well. People know that we have the selection. If they're looking for spirit, you know, there's a good probability they're going to a total line. But when they're there, they're going to shop cross category. Beer really is a convenience. Right. You can buy anywhere. We know c stor do great with beer fail, so do grocery. But what we try to do is like find those items that are going to draw people in those categories. So having that great selection of local craft like you mentioned earlier, that's a differentiator. That's something that's going to drive that trip and the Frequency. Other things that we really see. Driving trips in my categories follow those same rules. The things that you aren't finding out in the broad market.

29:44
Andrea Starr
So, you know, the THC drinks really driving that trip, you want those, you're probably gonna have to come to a total wine. And then my job from there is, okay, you're in the store to pick up your local craft beer, you're in my store to pick up the THC drink. What else do you need while you're here? Just making sure that while they're there, they're not forgetting to add in the beer. Oh, my tequila bottle is running low. Just making sure that, you know, they're really able to shop all their bad health needs.

30:08
Daniel Scharff
So one thing you made me think of is a lot of the questions that I'm asking you in my head, I'm thinking about being in the store, like discovering new items with cool packaging and stuff. But actually, for me as a consumer, I do a lot of my alcohol shopping online. I do that because I feel like I can often find a good deal on a product using one of the apps or something and then just kind of do a bigger shop that way. Because also it can be heavy to buy a bunch of beverage. How much is Ecom playing a role in your business today? And also, do you have any views on what do you think the evolution is for the shopper and how they buy alcohol? You know, spirits, wine stuff in general, leveraging online options.

30:46
Andrea Starr
Yeah, so I am with you there. I'm an online shopaholic. I love shopping online. It's an important part of our business and we see it in all different flavors. So we definitely do the marketplace businesses. So doordash, instacart, and through that you see a lot of the smaller purchases. Right. You see a lot of the add ons. I'm getting a bottle of wine to go with my dinner. I forgot that margarita mixer with my tequila. So, you know, adding that so you see a lot of the smaller purchases. But through our website, totalwine.com, you get a really great shopping experience. We have a wonderful website. We have a great app too. And you can browse and you can find all of the things that you want. And that business continues to scale for us.

31:23
Andrea Starr
So we obviously drove that through Covid and was some really strong success and we've been able to hold onto that business. Our digital business only continues to grow and we're seeing more of our business head that way. I think there's a lot of reasons for that. One, maybe I just don't have time to go to the store. I think that's a huge motivator. Right now, everyone's busier. They're getting more busier by the day. So, you know, just log in, place my order. It shows up in my doorstep. I just have to sign for it. That's great. And I think that's the future. We're really investing in digital and how we can continue to drive that shopping experience and have it near what we do in store. So really make sure that we're featuring the right products at the right moments.

32:02
Andrea Starr
If it's, you know, we're heading towards a huge holiday right July 4th, how do we make sure that we're amplifying that on the web too, that you have all of the great products featured and readily available right on the website and driving that convenience message, making sure that we have the delivery or you're able to pick it up, get curbside when you're out running your other errands. So we just continue to drive that business, and we do have a lot of focus there.

32:24
Daniel Scharff
Do you think it's easier or harder for new brands that get to work with you newer to market to try to get trial awareness through the online channels? Are they able to do that successfully through totalwine.com I think people kind of know how to do it through Instacart. Like, there are ads, you can promote stuff. But do you think it's easier or harder for them to stand out online versus in the stores?

32:46
Andrea Starr
We definitely do see big brands perform better online. People know what they want. They can search up. You know, I want Corona and Bing is there very easy. As opposed to having to walk down the aisle and walk past all the other products that might catch your eye. But, you know, we have a really strong digital merchandising team that's working with us constantly. What do you want to highlight? What are you excited about? What do you think is new or interesting that our customers might want to see to, like, really curate the pages? And I'm sure Michael can talk a lot about what we do with cocktailing and how they organize spirits. But with my team that we work with digitally, they're always asking us, like, what's trending, what's exciting? And we're also looking at the search data, like what people are searching for.

33:28
Andrea Starr
And that's so interesting. Honestly, what people are searching for is the most interesting thing to me because that helps us understand if there's a flavor or if there's a brand out there that's really starting to gain reach. So just continuing to work with that team to help elevate new and exciting items.

33:45
Michael Lowry
Yeah, I think I don't know how much I would elaborate on that other than to say I'm getting a footprint that has a national cover in bev alk, especially in spirits and to some degree in wine. And actually all three beer two is not easy and it's really state driven. So we really kind of have websites that are specific to each state, but they're all under the same banner and we can offer deals where legal and stuff like that across markets. But I think if you're able to access the total wine and more digital footprint, then it's a huge win. And I would say to you, historically, while were a big player before COVID during COVID we became a huge player because we had that footprint, that digital footprint.

34:29
Michael Lowry
And so the likes of Diageo or edrington, who owns McAllen, or like the big players who are used to sort of being sought after by every retailer of like, you know, I want your brands. I think for the first time they were like, what do we need to do to get onto that website? And it was that, you know, that was kind of that moment in many ways for us. And were very fortunate to have the vision that, number one, were putting a lot of energy and a lot of investment into our digital marketplace before COVID And then as Covid approached, it was like we stuck like nuclear reactors to it. And then we amplified it with the bricks and mortar by saying, we can bring it out to the parking lot with you. Park here.

35:10
Michael Lowry
I mean, the guys went out, got buckets and sand and nailed like little posts in There with number 17, dialed this number and it was their cell phone number. And when you got there, you literally called the store manager and V came out with your delivery. That sort of ingenuity that we had and that the ominous twigs and sticks, you know, that we put together to make something digital work allowed us to scale in a way that built that website into our largest single store. That's the way we sort of look at it. It is a store, but it is our biggest store.

35:45
Daniel Scharff
That's amazing. That's super interesting to think about. And yeah, I wonder, you know, there will be some kind of a good playbook for brands that start to launch digitally as that channel. It's only going to grow and grow, right? There are more people like me who are too lazy or busy or whatever to go to the store. But then we still want to, you know, have alcohol or alternatives for parties and everything. And it'll just. I feel like I don't often discover new products when I'm doing that. I'm just like, okay, I'm having this thing, I'm busy. I want good stuff, but I just want to order a bunch of it. Let me get on the website. Okay, yeah, that all looks good.

36:17
Daniel Scharff
Let me just take those six things that I know and I trust for this party rather than having a chance to maybe sample a brand that's demoing in the store and learn to love it or, you know, just so. I think brands definitely have their work cut out for them to learn how to differentiate themselves and get trial and awareness in this digital world. And a lot of them will be doing it through their own Instagram and, you know, efforts so that when people see it on there, they know it a little bit already. So speaking of brands that want to get noticed and want to work with you and get in that store and get in your stores, how do you discover new products? What's your process like? Is it happening on your website? Is it people running into you at trade shows?

36:54
Daniel Scharff
Can you give me a little bit of an overview? Because brands want to meet you, they want a shot.

36:59
Michael Lowry
Well, I'll start because I travel as much as I do and part of that travel is oriented to world trade events. So there's Vin Expo, which is a big show in Paris. There's Provine, which is a huge show in Germany and it draws the world. I mean, they're massive shows, especially for wine. But there's a huge spirits hall as well. There's other spirit specific show like Bar Convent and the Tales of the Cocktail in New Orleans. And then of course, I think Bar Convent also has a Berlin sort of outshoot, but there's a lot of events where we gather and meet as sort of industry folks. And you can get a booth, you can show your brands. So if I'm a legacy brand owner, I might do that and show off whatever I'm building that's brand new in my assortment.

37:46
Michael Lowry
And I want to engage you, try you on it and see what I can do, you know, to get you to buy it. If I am a little guy, accessing shows like that can be extremely expensive, if not cost prohibitive. And so they do a lot of the shows now have special areas that are very small, almost like kiosk like type locations where you can get in there for a lot less and, you know, you run with it. And then other times Countries will subsidize an entire section, and that allows smaller producers to get into a show under the auspices of being Greek or Austrian or whatever it might be. And so I would say those trade shows are really good way to encounter what's new, especially in Europe, being American and kind of running around.

38:32
Michael Lowry
There's a lot that happens organically that just comes to me, whether that's through LinkedIn or through contacts or just cold calls. You know, it's not hard to figure out what my email address is at Total one of work. And sometimes you get a lot of that, But I would say that it's really comes from all over the place. And it's one of those things that's akin to the way I describe the way that we buy, which is it's not what I like. It's whether or not I think something can sell. And so when those sort of ticklers come, my way of, hi, I'm making a vodka, and I'd like you to try it. It's not like I don't need any more vodka. That is not the answer.

39:09
Michael Lowry
So I might fire that off to our vodka buyer, and I might say, hey, I'm passing this to you. Tell me if you think that there's, you know, an opportunity. But that gets more to now the nitty gritty of how we operate. We have category leaders at our company, and they create needs lists. They create opportunities within category where, hey, we don't have enough of this, or, we're selling the crap out of this. We need more in the assortment. So we are driven by a lot of analyses in this area that tells us what we should be shopping for and where we need, you know, what percentage of our sales is coming from what percentage of our assortment. Right. And how are we doing in terms of category? Like, what's our most profitable category? Are you really souped up in that category?

39:49
Michael Lowry
And, you know, stuff like that. So we absolutely look at it from a data perspective constantly and are tweaking, and tequila needs to be, you know, have four more feet, and maybe vodka needs to have four less feet. And so we constantly look at it that way, and then we adjust assortments and what we're buying based on that as well. So there is a little bit of kind of given and sway within those people trying to get in and what we have space for, if that makes sense.

40:16
Daniel Scharff
Absolutely it does. Andrea, same question for you. Same answer or anything different particular to your categories or how you meet people?

40:23
Andrea Starr
Yeah, mine's a little different. We're not quite as actively going out and sourcing products. So there is a piece of my businesses like that and I'll do food and mixer category. We definitely do frequent trade shows really depending on what we're looking for. So we're kind of doing that analysis and if there's a category that we're not finding, you know, organically, then we'll go out to a show, we'll go to like a Sweets and Stacks or an Expo west and like under like try to see kind of like what else is out there or is it something that just doesn't exist and we have to figure out like is that something that we want to, you know, do in RFP or go find somebody to help us create something new.

40:59
Andrea Starr
But really for the beer seltzer piece, you know, a lot of it does come to us really directly through our website. It's really easy. You go down to the bottom, there's a for the trade link and it really tells you everything you need to know about how to submit a product. Tell us about your brand. And like you talked about earlier, we're more often going to say yes than not. So a lot of those brands are going to, you know, come and find us and you know, we'll test them out. And there is, you know what Michael saying there definitely is some art in there, right? Do we have the space for this? Where does this product go? That's my favorite question. Especially in the hard beverage space. Like where is this going to sit on the shelf? It's a margarita.

41:33
Andrea Starr
Okay, it's a margarita, but it's in a can. Okay, so is it going in canned cocktails? But wait, it's a malfeast. So as I go with that from bees or does it go, you know, so there's all those questions the follow up there, but you know, really pretty easy to find us on the website. And that's how most of the products that in our sets are found.

41:50
Daniel Scharff
First of all, I love that, I love how you're talking about it. I think you're going to be getting a lot of submissions now based off how you just described it. And so just out of curiosity, what actually happens when somebody submits on the website? Does that kick out an email to you or is it like a database that you'll go through, you know, once a week or something? What's the process like?

42:08
Andrea Starr
Yeah, there's a few different ways on our website. Primary one is there's just a new item submission link and every team works a little bit differently. By my teams, we review over 500 new products a week. If you think about it's local. Like we get local beer products constantly submitted different food products. So they are reviewing every day. Really a big part of what my team does. They look at the new products, are coming in and making decisions about, you know, where and how we might add those new items. So that is really a daily for me and my team.

42:40
Daniel Scharff
Wow, that's so interesting to hear. Thank you for telling me about that. And because you mentioned food a few times, do you mind telling people what kind of stuff are you actually stocking in Total Wine? What kind of CPG food type products are you interested in? Obviously knowing that you're going to be going to shows and looking for the new stuff also.

42:58
Andrea Starr
Sure. So the first thing is what do you need to build a cocktail? So a lot of the food, the most important food items that we carry are things that you might add to a drink. So our number one product, food product that we sell are maraschino chickies. And we sell a lot of them. So that's a huge part of our food business. But beyond that, and I talk to my food buyer about this all the time, they don't come in for food, but they should leave with food. So we're not going to sell the conventional food? Well, we do sell some conventional food, but it's not our sweet spot. You know, if you need a bag of Cheetos, we got them. But that's, you know, Snickers.

43:31
Andrea Starr
But our sweet spot is kind of that something that you might see in like a Whole Foods or a sprouts. Like it's kind of interesting, differentiated flavors, things that are going to pair well with other stuff that you're buying in our store. That's really our sweet spot. Just really fun, interesting snacks. Pretzels are sell amazing for us. I mean beyond the cherries, pretzels are definitely our top category.

43:53
Daniel Scharff
Makes sense. And also just because you mentioned local, when you work with brands, are you typically willing to give them a store or a region or a state or how many of them you're thinking immediately about doing a national program with? Obviously understanding there are a lot of these rules with three tier systems.

44:11
Andrea Starr
It depends on the category and the product. For a food item specifically, typically going to not add something for one store. But if I only have one store in the market where it's relevant, sure I will. And it's also about route to market. Right. Like how am I getting that product? You know, I would love to have, you know, a Hundred local food vendors bringing their food into my store. But, you know, that's just not something that we're able to manage that's not scalable. So really, making sure that we have the right mix of local, regional, national products is important. And that's honestly important across every category. And when it comes to something that's a beer, let's talk about a beer.

44:45
Andrea Starr
Like, if it's a local craft beer, we're probably going to put it in all of the local markets right away and see how it does. And then, you know, if they have the ability to scale or they're available in other markets, then we'll gradually expand out and see how it does. A national product, something that's available nationally. Kind of depending on who's making that product, who's bringing that product to us, what that product is, we can go a lot of different avenues. We can say, I'm gonna put this in my test stores, the stores where it's more most likely to succeed, and then, you know, expand from there. Maybe it's really resonates in the northeast.

45:15
Andrea Starr
So I just decide to throw it in all my northeast stores and maybe pull back on, you know, the west coast or it's kind of, you know, hitting everywhere. And, you know, then we kind of expand out and just depending on what the sales look like will depend on how quickly we scale that brand.

45:30
Daniel Scharff
And speaking of route to market, can you talk about what your preferred method is or what the most common is for bevalk and then also for those snack products?

45:39
Michael Lowry
So Bevalk, there's three tier system in the United States. And so traditionally I'm, you know, alcoholic beverages, wine and spirits come through a distributor in each market, and that would be the case for us. So even though if wine producer shows up and says, hey, you know, I'd really love for you to buy my wine. We say, I think Andrea was saying a second ago is have a lot of data, obviously, that we use. For example, in my business, I know Minnesota is a huge liqueurs market. So they love sweet and they love liqueurs.

46:11
Michael Lowry
And so if you came to me and said, hey, Mike, I've got this great chocolate cream or something, I'd say, okay, let's test it in Minnesota because it's a good space to say, if people buy it and it grows there, then you know, you've got a good product and you can probably expand it out. And when we do that in spirits, we tend to kind of zero in where the data tells us. If you have a Smoky Scotch. I'm going to put it into best smoky Scotch market to test it potentially. And then if it works well there, we'll put it into. We class the stores and stuff like that so that we can say, well, let's move on next class and get it into that many more doors.

46:48
Michael Lowry
And I think I want to be careful about saying that in this cast because I never want to discourage producers. I was at a wine tasting last night and the guy makes 2500 cases of wine a year and so he's like, I would love to talk to you, but there's no possible way. And I'm like, no, no, there is a way. And so you should never fail to bring product to us that is great product, regardless of how much you're making. Because we can give you a couple of doors, you know, we can give you a door. The idea is that we want to make sure we have the very best product that customers would love to buy or are asking for or we have data that's saying this is something customers love. We should get as much of it as we can.

47:27
Michael Lowry
And so I think it's important, regardless of where you are in the pecking order, that you don't think of Total Wine and more as a huge box store that's only interested in gigantic brands. And my product's never going to fly there. And so I hope we'll talk a little bit about activation in, you know, today, because I think that is extraordinarily important in market. But that's a little bit over here. But typically, once we identify a product, there is a route that it comes in to our markets and it's a legal route that we are.

48:00
Daniel Scharff
Okay, so for alk, that's pretty clear. And honestly, I don't know a lot about it, but that makes sense. Yes, there are a lot of distributors. Andrea, what about for the mocktails, non ALK stuff and for food? What are the options for brands? What will you accept?

48:14
Andrea Starr
We'll accept most things. We do, you know, really prefer to have them coming through a food vendor because that does help us. Of course, we also do because there are products that we can move through a warehousing system, a total wine warehousing system. And that's true for some of the non alcoholic beverages and mocktail pieces as well. So in that business, we're typically talking to the brand and specifically talking to them about route to market, you know, so it really is individual. Again, what do we want to do with this brand? Is this something we want to Put in every single one of our stores. DSD is a tough option if that's the case. Right. We don't want ship every brand to every store. We'd really like, you know, another way, whether it be a national partner e through our warehouse system.

48:58
Andrea Starr
Sometimes there's a lot of brands also that do work through the three tier products. They complement alcohol, that sometimes they do ride on the same trucks. So it really is individual in that space. We talk to the brand, understand what our goals are and like Michael side kind of identify what the right route is and work with them to get that going.

49:14
Daniel Scharff
Okay, great. So it could be direct if it's the right fit or it could go through like a K or unfi. I remember I used to run a beverage brand and we had this kind of funny storage partner called Real Soda and that was one of their things is like the owner would go and drive the truck and hit I think a lot of total wine stores also. So yeah, a lot of options. Okay, that's great to know. So yeah, speaking of that activation side Michael that you brought up, I would love to chat about that a little bit more. So any tips, any direction you want to go with that on just how people can activate best?

49:46
Michael Lowry
Sure. I mean I think this is critical. It's central to who we are. And you know, one of those three tenants that we are as Total Wine is great service. And that doesn't just mean, hey, let me get that case for you. It means what brings you in today? What do you like to drink? How are you going to consume that bourbon? And have you ever thought about adding a Luxardo cherry? Making great intelligence suggestions? Because our staff is extremely trained, they're very educated. We've all these programs that allow them to access more and more knowledge about the categories and the products that we're selling and ideally that are they're passionate about to begin with. So I think that we created an environment that is filled with passionate people who like to talk about all the brands that are on our shelves.

50:30
Michael Lowry
If you are a producer and you have the opportunity to get in and encounter that sales team, you're going to win big time because you're meeting other passionate people that share your passion. And when they taste your product, if they like it and it's delicious and they get excited about it, then it's basically this infectious enthusiasm. And even if you're not in the store, but you put the time in with our sales team, I think when you leave, the sales team still says, oh my gosh, those Guys were in yesterday. They're awesome. I tried all of their liqueurs, and every one of them is more delicious than the next. But my favorite one is the strawberry. And I think that's like, a really solid way to engage a customer because you're giving it a lot of validation, a lot of truthiness, and.

51:12
Michael Lowry
And I think we're really good at that. So I would say if you have a story to tell, right. I'm not just some white guy who went down to Mexico and found a mezcal and brought it back. And it's great. Mezcal. No, no, no, no. I've got a family that is making mezcal, and they're really authentic, and they're incredible, and I want to tell that story. We're your retailer to do that with, and we will sing about it. And so I think getting into market and bringing your story with you, activating with customers through tastings, we're legal and with our team members, is the way you build a brand in the U.S. I mean, it's so fundamental.

51:49
Daniel Scharff
I like how you say that. And it honestly is a pretty different answer than I would usually get from a lot of grocery retailers who would instinctively go more to, like, promotions and a lot of other stuff. Makes actually a lot of sense to me. Like, no, really, that is actually maybe much more important in a world where people rely so much on recommendations from staff and, like. Like the importance of really building your brand rather than just relying on discounts. But are there other ways that you like to see brands supporting the business and also when they pitch to you, like, telling you that, like, hey, we're going to do these kind of promotions, we're going to have coupons, we're going to have demos, our field team, like, what kind of stuff do you really like to hear from them?

52:26
Michael Lowry
Well, I'm going to let Andrea speak to, because I think her world is filled with more promotional stuff. We do a lot of promotions as well, but I think I want to encounter a supplier that's going to say to me, I've got ambassadors in the market that are trained. They come to our distillery, or that we have spent the time to invest in them. And I've got a team that's going to cover the market and maybe even do we have classrooms in every one of our stores. And sometimes we invite our suppliers to come in and do a class that might be specific to the categories that they sell or they're making lips in. But I think someone who isn't just like, okay, I sold you the product, now it's your problem. No, no, it doesn't work that way.

53:03
Michael Lowry
I want to know that you are going to have a very active role in market to help build the product and to get focus on it. And so that is something that I look for in addition to what you're selling. And so, Andrea, maybe you speak a little bit more to what you're looking for in other sorts of promotional activity.

53:20
Andrea Starr
Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, I completely agree with everything Michael's saying. Again, coming initially from the stores, like, stories sell, right? And these are emotional categories. People are very emotional about Bev alone. So being able to tell that story really connects the customer to the product and that is invaluable. That said, I have very promotional categories. So we do want to know that the brand is going to be supportive. Like I said many times, we'll bring the product in, but now what are you going to do with it? Right. So driving smart promotions, driving trial with your promotion. So maybe it's an introductory offer, maybe it's an offer during key moments to make sure that your brand is top of mind when I'm out shopping for Thanksgiving, whatever it might be.

54:01
Andrea Starr
So making sure that you're using promotion in the right way, because a brand that's always on promotion is not a healthy brand. If you're only selling discount, you're either priced incorrectly or you're not getting repeat purchase. So really making sure that when you're using that promotional lever, you're using it with precision and at the right moments and targeting the right customers. And a lot of that is also about knowing who you are as a brand. Not every brand is for everyone, and that's okay. You have to have a target audience. Tastings are so valuable. We do tastings in our store constantly. We're always pushing our suppliers to come in and taste especially newness. We want to see these brands succeed. We want to see your brands grow in our stores.

54:38
Andrea Starr
So coming in tasting, telling your story, having people taste that liquids and getting their reactions, quite frankly, like listening to the customer and hearing them and understanding how that might impact a tweak you want to make to your product or how that might impact your innovation pipeline, like, oh, I really like this product. But you know, I really wish you had one that was mango flavored or whatever it might be, you know, that can be really valuable. So making sure that there's lots of tasting agencies out there, some of them do a really good job. But honestly, sending your own people in is the most valuable thing you can do because it's going to bring that feedback right back to you and that's going to help you evolve and grow your brand. And not least is that product or that education aspect. Right.

55:20
Andrea Starr
So we do offer events in our stores. Is your product or is your brand the right type of brand that we could run an education, whether it be just with our staff, maybe with our consumers. Again, when you're in our store, taking the time to talk to the team that's there, tell them so that they can tell your story when you're not there. So that's so valuable to us.

55:38
Daniel Scharff
I love it. And I've been getting into martinis recently and I don't know a lot about it. I feel almost afraid to order it in a bar because they're going to be ask me some question that I don't know the answer to, like, do you want to draw? Do you want to be like, just, you know, like the good way? I don't know. So I definitely. There's a good brand that's going to do a tasting education session on how to make a good martini. And I'm coming in and I'm probably going to learn to love them and always make my drinks with them. So sign me up for some of my.

56:03
Michael Lowry
Do not order a martini at the.

56:04
Daniel Scharff
Place with the TVs.

56:06
Michael Lowry
It's not okay.

56:07
Daniel Scharff
Yeah. Really?

56:08
Michael Lowry
No, I just don't think that's a good idea. So.

56:11
Daniel Scharff
Okay, thank you. I will add that onto my no list. Okay. And then once they actually get on shelf, what do you want to see? Velocity wise, sales wise, where do they need to be to have you keep giving them that shot?

56:26
Michael Lowry
I would say it really depends on the item, obviously, and the liquid, what you're trying to solve for, if that makes sense. I mentioned to you there's lots of ways and reasons we would choose to put a product onto our shelves. And so, for example, right now, Chartreuse is limited in the amount that's coming into the United States. The month are only making as much as they make. And so we found a lot of liqueurs that are similar to Chartreuse. But I would say whether or not they're selling like crazy well, or we want to make sure we have that option on the shelf that the customer who comes in and goes, excuse me, do you have any short juice? No, we don't. But what we can suggest is this really great product called Vervine du Valet. And it's a really old French product.

57:07
Michael Lowry
And they might be like, oh, okay. But I think that it's more. Sometimes you're solving for something. Other times, if I have a tequila, for example, if I've got one tequila producer knocking on the door to feature their product, then I've got, I don't know, 20 a week. And so it's very competitive to get onto shelf in that category. And so in that space, I might say, hey, buddy, you got to move some cases, and the cases depends on the number of doors you're in and that kind of thing. But overall, you know, I would say we have like, sort of established, maybe dollar thresholds in spaces that we look to. And Andrea, we look at that on like a semi annual basis and then annual basis.

57:48
Michael Lowry
And it's not like a cut and dry, like, you know, you're in, you're out, but it's more category specific. And there's a science that we use to it and we value our partnerships. And so it's not sort of, oh, yeah, by the way, that product is gone. It's more, hey, there's some troubling signs, and we wanted to make sure that we chatted with you to say, hey, you know, this product might be at risk. Do you want to make a bigger investment in store activation, in tastings? You know, we call that getting liquid lips. And what else would you like to do that? We have tools that are available to you at the store where you can sign up for tastings and stuff like that. Again, we're legal.

58:24
Michael Lowry
I think we try to partner in that process as well, to give you every opportunity to make the brand of success. Andrea, what else?

58:30
Andrea Starr
I think you covered it and I think what you said, it's really is about the specific product and a specific category. We do have a tendency to protect local items or items that are very specific. It might not be the best seller, but we always want to have X product on the shelf. In your world, maybe that is a product like a chartreuse specific imperative or flavored liqueur, but it really is very specific.

58:54
Daniel Scharff
All right, amazing. And just as we're kind of finishing up here, are there any trends you're paying attention to right now or any, like, products you haven't been able to find in the market? If someone out there has this kind of a thing, hit us up. Anything you want to call out specifically?

59:08
Michael Lowry
Gosh, trends that I'm looking at right now are. They're sort of all over the place. I already mentioned Dubai Chocolate Merlot. I would say in terms of flavors, my focus is on flavors as they appear in different channels. And I really have started to move away from the idea that I'm buying spirits, but I'm buying flavor. And so, like use the analogy of lady who might enjoy putting hazelnut non dairy creamer into her coffee in the morning. And if I said to her, what if I could get you that exact same flavor in a Merlot, would you like it? I think that customer would say, I'll try it. And that's the thing that you got to be looking out for as a buyer is how do I channel the flavor that you love into a space?

59:52
Michael Lowry
And it's time of day, a channel that you might want to enjoy. And so that happens to be now, five o' clock, let's say in the afternoon, because you don't want coffee then, but you might want hazelnut. And so I think that's an interesting way to look at it. So I'm always on the lookout for flavors that we encounter in different spaces that might show up in a channel that I buy. And I think that's doubly true. I'm sure Andrea can speak to that in THC and spades. But anyway, so I'm looking at that in probably in whiskeys, I'm looking at increasing like full strength whiskeys, you know, barrel strength whiskeys, things that are really over delivering again on flavor.

01:00:32
Michael Lowry
And so flavor out of barrel, all that goodness in barrel that's coming into the glass and we're able to showcase that more because I think a lot of people, if they're always drinking maker's mark, you know, it's fine. Maker's mark is always going to be there. But how do you introduce to them the fact that they actually really love the flavor of a weeded mash bill and they might really love it at full strength? And so that's. I focus a little bit on that. Places where spicy meets sweet meets savory with alcohol and stuff like that. So where is that happening? Like, there's a big spicy tamarindo which is based on the candy, the Mexican candy poparindo. And so there's a lot of nostalgia that goes on in these spaces.

01:01:11
Michael Lowry
And so looking again, where can I get a flavor vortex going on that all these things are happening? And it might be a great additive in a cocktail and it might also be something people love doing as shots because it tastes so strange. And so I like looking at that. And so I do think there's a move within tequila among those who have been drinking it, even those who have been recently introduced to it. And where they may have been hooked on sweet, I think they're finding their own tequila now. And that's a really fascinating thing in that category. In other words, this is the brand that I like and it's my brand. It's not Maker's Mark, it's not Bombay. It's some obscure little brand that they found. And so I think there's a real potential for deep personalization.

01:01:52
Michael Lowry
And Andrea said earlier, emotion in this category that I love. And I think it's just beginning to sort of blow up. So those are a couple of things I'm looking at.

01:02:00
Daniel Scharff
Okay, great. Very interesting. Andrea, how about you? And then. And anything on the THC space?

01:02:05
Andrea Starr
So I think non alk, low alk, those are trends, Those are definitely things that we're exploring. And specifically within non alk, those are functional beverages. So setting THC aside, there's a huge piece of the business that's emerging right now. Things that have additives like, you know, lion's mane, magnesium, all these different things that people are looking for as an alternative to alcohol, still adult beverages, still good flavors. But really, you know, what is my drink offering me? So we're definitely looking in that space quite a bit, expanding as we see opportunity. It's early, but it's evolving really quickly. I'll say you have to taste good. There's a lot of products in that space that quite frankly don't taste good. So you're getting those functional ingredients in.

01:02:50
Andrea Starr
So you might again, going back, you might get that trial, but you're not going to get the repeat purchase. You have to have both. You have to have the function and the flavor. So that's definitely something that my team spends a lot of time on. And then that RTD space like that continues to grow. It's gone from malt based hard seltzers to spirits based hard seltzers to canned cocktails. Now it's in the bottles. Does the customer care that it's malt based or spirits based or if it's in a can or if it's in a bottle? So how is the customer exploring and really thinking about that?

01:03:17
Andrea Starr
Because right now, and I could change my opinion tomorrow, but right now the way we're thinking about it is, you know, like, I might want something that's BlackBerry flavored, but it doesn't matter to me if it's in a bottle, in a can or malt. But I want to see what my BlackBerry options are. So just trying to understand, like how the customer is shopping, how the customer is thinking about that because they. It's been blurry for a while, but it's just continuing. It's really crazy. And you know, trying to get your arms around all of it, but just seeing what's out there I think is really interesting on thc. Like speaking of category line blurring, like super relevant THC beverage. And we like to say we sell adult beverages. THC drinks are adult beverages. So where we legally can. We're definitely seeing consumer interest.

01:03:59
Andrea Starr
I think, you know, our CEO was recently quoted several times saying, you know, we are gaining customer. There's a lot of new customer interest coming into our stores and then our existing customers also stepping into that space. But what's really interesting is over time that customer starts to look the same. So it really is about occasion. And something I say a lot is the cooler isn't changing. The cooler is getting bigger. So when I was a kid and my parents would throw barbecues, maybe there was a domestic beer and a light beer, maybe an import if it was a special occasion. Right now you look open the cooler, you probably have a beer option. You know, a domestic or an import, you might have a craft option, you probably have a seltzer, you might have some non Elks, you have some THC beverages.

01:04:38
Andrea Starr
Now it's just continuing to grow and there's just, there's an occasion and there's something for everybody. So I think THC does fit what we do in our stores. And it's also a place where education matters, like the absolute most everybody. There's a cultural understanding of alcohol. Right? You kind of understand when a beer is an appropriate drink, when a Manhattan's appropriate drink, like for thc. That's something that we're all learning together. So you'll find in our stores some educational materials. And we're really trying to talk about it the right way and be responsible with what we're doing. It's so interesting in terms of like what the products look like. It's starting to evolve. It definitely started as just seltzers and now it looks a lot like that hard beverage space. You have cocktail flavors, you have hard soda flavors.

01:05:23
Andrea Starr
But what's really interesting now is the products coming in multi serve bottles. So things that are starting to look like spirits. So I think there's no limit right now on that category. It's evolving so fast. You know, it might take like five years, six years. Michael will correct me, but you can brew a beer in, you know, we, you can turn these things around in a day. So like the innovation is so quick. It's incredibly rapid and what we're really looking for there is differentiated products. We need something that's new and different and understanding where the category is going and what the consumer really wants in that space place.

01:05:56
Daniel Scharff
I love to hear how you talk about that, the assortment you want to have for people for the different occasions. I actually want that even if I'm entertaining. So when I have parties in places where it's legal, I definitely want to have that as an option. Some people want alcohol, some people want something like a White Claw, some people want to have a THC drink, and some people don't want alcohol at all and would host parties in la. Half the people weren't drinking, but they would still be pretty interested in those options. And I'd like to have something for everybody. So I really like that you guys are thinking so holistically about that and really just it's such an opportunity for brands who are innovating in that space to get to partner with you. So I am going to wrap us up here.

01:06:32
Daniel Scharff
But I just really want to conclude by saying thank you again because this is such an unbelievable opportunity for me and for so many brands just to really get to learn so much about how Total Wine and more works and how you look for brands, how you think about the whole category and stuff that's out there. So again, I really just want to thank you, Michael andrea for the time that you spent with us today. And I'm looking forward to hopefully getting to do lots more fun stuff with both of you. So thank you again.

01:07:00
Michael Lowry
Sure, Daniel, it's nice to chat with you. Thanks a lot for the opportunity.

01:07:03
Andrea Starr
Yeah, it was great to meet you. Thank you so much.

01:07:07
Daniel Scharff
All right, everybody, thank you so much for listening to our podcast. If you loved it, I would so appreciate it if you could leave us a review. You could do it right now. If you're an Apple podcast, you can scroll to the bottom of our Startup CPG podcast page and click on Write a Review. Leave your company name in there. I will try to read it out. If you're in Spotify, you can click on about and then the star rating icon. If you are a service provider that would like to appear on the Startup CPG podcast, you can email us@partnershipstartupcpg.com last. Lastly, if you found yourself grooving along to the music, it is my band. You can visit our website and listen to more. It is superfantastics.com thank you everybody. See you next time.