The Startup CPG Podcast

Kartik Das
The real benefit of working with someone like Keith and the Walmart board is that they're representing two sides of the equation. Right. They want to help. The primary constituent are the growers trying to figure out how to take this incredible product. And then you've got the brand coming in with no idea of what they want. And their real superpower is finding ways there might be innovation that the walnut folks have come up with that are not advertising yet. Right. But I'm just giving them a problem to solve and they're saying we can solve a little walnut. I think that's really the value of working with the board.

00:41
Daniel Scharff
Welcome to the startup CPG podcast, friends. I've heard about so many brands out there who have some kind of a trick up their sleeve, a mysterious benefactor, somebody helping them out with their supply chain and R and D education and a lot more. And it turned out to be a commodity board. There are a bunch of them out there. They're formed to support commercial activities for farmers who all grow a certain kind of product. And actually, these boards can provide a lot of resources for startup brands. So today I wanted everyone to learn all about what one of the boards is doing for an incredible brand from our community. So we've got Kartik from Dusra. He just absolutely crushed fancy food show with his new Indian snack mix.

01:18
Daniel Scharff
And we're also joined by Keith Sighs from the California Walnut Board, who has been the person behind the scenes helping Kartik to get his new snack mix to market. Thank you so much to the California Walnut Board for joining us. They would love to hear from anyone out there who is interested in their resources or education. You can email them@foodinnovationwallnuts.org and that's in the show notes. All right, enjoy. Welcome to the podcast, everybody. We are going to jump right in here, so let's do some intros. Keith, can you kick us off? Yeah.

01:50
Keith Seiz
Thanks for having me on the podcast, Daniel. My name is Keith Size and I'm with the California Walnut Board. I've been in the food industry for the last 25 years, about the last seven years with the walnut board, helping them kind of launch their innovation program for food and beverage manufacturers.

02:10
Daniel Scharff
All right, Kartik, over to you. Can you give us an intro, please?

02:14
Kartik Das
Yeah. Thanks for having us, Daniel. My name is Kartik Das. I'm the snack maker here at Dusra. What we do is we make modern takes on very classic Indian snack mixes. So we combine things, Indian ingredients like chickpea puffs and spices. That are unique to India with a little sweet indulgences and, you know, with the help of the wonderful folks, the California walnut board. We've got nut elements in there. And our newest snack mix has California walnuts in there.

02:38
Daniel Scharff
All right. I love it. And so, you know, I really like doing podcasts like this episode because I think a lot of people out there wonder, what actually do these commodity boards do that are out there that I always see at the trade shows? What can they actually do for me? What's. And so, like, here we have a real life example that I think will be pretty interesting to people. So, Keith, maybe if you could start us off, can you just first of all, give us the Walnuts 101, because, you know, we did a webinar with you guys recently and then there's so much there.

03:06
Kartik Das
Yeah.

03:06
Keith Seiz
And I was like you, I did not know what all these commodity boards did either whenever I went to trade shows till I started working with one. So essence, you know, a commodity board is, you know, set up to kind of represent an industry. In this case, the walnut industry in California makes up of about 3,700 growers, 70 handlers. And we represent them because most of them are multi generational farmers that may not have the marketing resources, may not have the marketing budgets to get out there. So that's kind of an, in essence, what we do in terms of walnuts 101. Try to keep this short because I could, you know, as you know, I could talk your ear off for about three hours on walnuts.

03:52
Keith Seiz
You know, it's a great time to be in walnuts right now because I feel we're finally breaking out of the baking aisle. It's been something, you know, here in the US We've always been considered a baking nut. You put them in brownies, you buy shell and shell walnuts during the holiday season and crack them, you put them in cookies, things like that. And in the last couple years, due to a lot of the functionality of it, a lot of the innovation, as well as just people's changing preferences, especially people looking for more healthy products that still taste good, we're starting to see walnuts be really used everywhere. So it's been kind of fun in my role.

04:31
Daniel Scharff
All right, so we've got all of the people growing walnuts out there in California. And so then at some point they formed this board because they don't all want to be doing their own individual marketing. They want to do growing, which they're good at.

04:44
Kartik Das
Right.

04:45
Daniel Scharff
And so then they all kind of come together. And then thus, we have California Walnut board that does look to promote walnuts and the kind of walnuts that they're growing and help a lot of us figure out what else they could be used in and how we can meet consumer demand with interesting walnut innovations. Is that right?

05:01
Kartik Das
Yeah.

05:01
Keith Seiz
And that's really the best part of my job and why I love it so much, is we don't grow walnuts. The board doesn't grow walnuts. I can't physically sell you a walnut. If you came to me and said, I want to buy your walnuts, Keith, I'd go, great, buy them from somebody in California. So our kind of goal is purely educational, which, you know, somebody who started their career as a journalist like me, writing in the food industry, something I really thrive at and love doing, because that's kind of first and foremost is education. We're here to educate the food industry, consumers, restaurants, things like that, about walnuts. I just work on the food and beverage brand side, which is my true joy.

05:44
Keith Seiz
You know, I don't think I'd be as good at this job if I had to deal with consumer marketing and PR and things like that. So, yeah, we kind of are here to promote, but really it's more about education in our part.

05:57
Daniel Scharff
Okay, got it. So, you know, with education and what else is there also? Like, what. What are the benefits for brands of working with a commodity board like California Walnut Board? What's all the stuff that you can do to make Kartech's life easier and all the other brands that you guys get to support?

06:14
Keith Seiz
Yeah, and that's kind of exciting thing and an evolving thing too, because in general, it was, you know, more about the education and raising awareness. So get people to think about walnuts. Walnuts are kind of uniquely positioned because they've been underused by the food and beverage industry for a long time. Like I said earlier, just kind of cordoned off to be something you put in cookies or sweet goods or things like that. So, you know, whenever I first started, our main goal was the promotion, raising awareness part. We've since evolved the program to focus more on, okay, how do we work directly with brands, how do we support brands? And, you know, we're kind of limited one hand because in the past, all of our research has been mainly done on harvest, things like that post harvest.

07:04
Keith Seiz
But we're starting to kind of grow our capabilities and really focus a lot of those efforts now on. Okay. You know, in the base level, kind of how we worked with Kardik And Dusra was, how do we connect the pieces? You know, it started with education. He heard us talk at a conference about walnuts, tasted some of the walnuts, we sampled some of the innovative skinless walnuts that we sampled. And then, you know, were able to connect the pieces between getting him samples, working back and forth to make sure he had what he need so he could do what he does best, which is creating tasty foods. So in some instances, it's connecting people, connecting sellers to. To a food brand. It's a lot of sampling, a lot of providing those samples.

07:48
Keith Seiz
And then in other instances, we do everything as far as prototyping with companies who need more R and D source to where we'll work with our, you know, culinary experts to actually develop formulas.

07:58
Daniel Scharff
So you have culinary experts in your network, and you can tap them when somebody like Cardik is like, hey, this is what I would like to do. You know, we could use some help with it. You might go as far as to try to help the product along to get to the point where then obviously, they're really ordering a lot of walnuts from people who you guys support.

08:17
Keith Seiz
Yeah, definitely. And in our case, we're glad Kardik is already an expert at crafting something really flavorful. So we didn't have to do any. Any prototyping. It was mainly just bringing, you know, bringing the walnut to his attention, then help facilitating that relationship, the seller, and make sure he had plenty of samples, make sure he could do his benchtop testing before he even decided to move forward.

08:40
Daniel Scharff
And so how do you actually decide which of the California walnut producers to connect with? Kardik? I know there are so many different kinds of walnuts out there. The colors are different, the taste can be really different. Just so much different stuff. So how would. Yeah. And obviously, you are supporting a wide variety of farmers all over California, so. Yeah. Who gets to be the lucky one for Cardig?

09:04
Keith Seiz
Well, we've got a big list. And then based on the needs, which in Cardiff's case, which he can talk a little bit about, his needs were very unique. So it kind of narrowed it down to one or two. And then whenever it comes to volume, kind of narrowed it down to one. Now I think there'll be more, you know, coming online with kind of the unique product that he has. But, yeah, for. For this one, it was pretty narrow list because not. Not many could provide him with what he was looking for.

09:31
Daniel Scharff
Well, that is just a great setup. I think now everybody is like, what's behind this curtain? Kartik can you. Can you tag in here and just tell us all about your brand? And while you do that, I am also. I've got my lovely sample here. So we've got Deuce Rust snack mix. It's Indian snack mix. And the flavor that I've got here, it says spiced chickpea, puffs, walnut and dark chocolate is the flavor that I've got here. And I'm going to shake my bag around a little bit just so you can hear. This stuff is awesome. And, you know, I had heard about this at Fancy Food. I think you were near our section, and so a lot of people were coming by, like, do you know about Deucero? This brand is nuts. And literally, I guess.

10:11
Daniel Scharff
And, you know, so as I have, I'm pouring some of the product out here into my hand. And the first thing is that there's just a lot of different stuff going on in here, right? There are a lot of different shapes and colors and textures. And then when you actually, like, take a handful of this snack mix in your mouth and start chewing, you're on a journey, you know, and there are going to be a lot of twists and turns and different roads and different experiences. And you just kind of want to tell people about it because it is sweet, it is spicy, and the textures, because there's some that's, like, smooth and some that has, like, a gentle texture. There's some that's crunchy, a lot of crunchiness, and then a lot of gooeyness also from the chocolate. So, you know, buckle up, everybody.

10:53
Daniel Scharff
You're about to go on quite a ride when you have just even a little handful of Doucera. So I'm going to go on that journey and pass it over to Kartik to actually tell us properly about himself and his brand.

11:04
Kartik Das
Well, thank you, Daniel. I mean, I know you've been in CBG for a while, but you basically did my whole sales pitch for me. So we'll. We'll talk offline about how Kogi keep working together. But as you mentioned, so when you said journey, that's really what I wanted to take people on. I'm wearing our little hat here. We've got our logo with our little guy and our rickshaw. The idea is we wanted to take you on a flavor journey through a part of Indian food culture that most people don't know about, right? We've got simmer sauces, we've got chai, we've got spices.

11:33
Kartik Das
But if you walk into any house in the subcontinent, that's Pakistan India, Bangladesh, anywhere in South Asia, they're going to welcome you with a cup of chai and they're going to give you a crunchy, salty, savory snack to go with it. I like to say chai is Batman. It's having his moment. Everyone knows about it. And I'd like to bin Robin, which is the snacks to the party. So I was born india, I grew up in Singapore. I came here for school and I stayed and I worked in corporate America for a while. But I grew up eating snacks like this. It's something that you share with your family at 4 o', clock, when everyone takes a break for the day, you pour some chai, you sit around, you have conversations. So it's something that should bring people together.

12:07
Kartik Das
It's not the hero, but it facilitates so much. And here I own. When I. When I moved to the us, I saw them occasionally indian specialty stores. We walk into an Indian store, you will see two aisles of snacks, but walk into any mainstream American grocery store and you don't see a single Indian snack on shelf. And so that was the place I wanted to bring to the fore. I like to say we're not solving problems, just trying to spread a little joy. And that's what our snacks are about. You talked about textural contrast, right? We want the crisp and the spiciness from those chickpea puffs. We want the crumbliness that we've got from these incredible walnuts that don't have that bitterness of the skin, but they're meaty, they're textural.

12:44
Kartik Das
And then you hit the chocolate that's smooth, that's sweet, and the dark chocolate case, still smoky. And then it brings those spices back, right? You keep going. And every bite's a bit a different adventure. And that's what I wanted to do. I just wanted to bring people and show that Indian food's a lot more than what you just normally see indian restaurants. And there's so much more of our food culture. That's how we came up with a brand. And I'm glad you got to go on that venture. Usually when we sample it, we tell people to take a shot, right? And it's the exact same ratio in that bag. And it'll change with every bite. And the end, people like, I don't know where I went, but I'm happy. I got on the ride and went for it.

13:19
Daniel Scharff
That's exactly what it's like. It's like you're sort of giving someone directions to a Place that's kind of hard to find or like telling them what their Burning man experience is going to be like. And it's like this. And. But it's also like this. And then, by the way, you think you're done now. Oh, hello. Now all of a sudden your mouth is spicy and you're not sure why. It's all great. Like, all of that experience is very nice. And it's a beautiful symphony that happens with a lot of. Yeah. Twists and turns. And I loved it. So can you also just tell me a little bit about, like. Yeah. When did you decide that you were going to be an entrepreneur in this space and decide to specifically do this kind of a product?

13:54
Kartik Das
Absolutely. So I always knew I wanted to work for myself. Back in college, I ran a couple of businesses. I used to be in the army, but I realized I don't really have a good relationship with authority. I like to work for myself. And so at one point I just, you know, I woke up on my, on a birthday and I said, why am I not pursuing this? But I needed to understand what I wanted, what story I wanted to tell. So I actually quit a well paying job. I went to culinary school through the pandemic, I learned to cook. I worked in a couple of restaurants. I came back here, I private chef for a little bit. And people kept asking me what my food story was and it kept coming back to these snacks.

14:26
Kartik Das
So I feel confident enough at making something that tastes good, but I don't know if people are going to buy it. So we started out just saying, I'm going to do a farmer's market thing, I'm going to get some Kraft bags, put a label on it and see if people enjoy the flavors. And lo and behold, they did. They told me that my branding needed a fair amount of work, naturally, as a brown paper bag. And so that's when we decided, okay, there's something here and let's give that a chance to succeed. So we designed our old packaging, went out to a bunch of independent stores, and the feedback kept coming back saying, this is delicious. There's nothing else like it. And so that gave me the confidence to say, okay, I think we can start doing this. And growing up, I was.

15:02
Kartik Das
I didn't have a lot of other Indian friends, right. So the name Dusra means different. And that's how I always felt. I wasn't, I wasn't surrounded by other Indian folks. But the plus side of that is I was the one introducing Indian flavors to everybody else around me either. Misconstrued ideas of what it was or no clue about what it was. So now I get to do the same thing. I just get to do it in snap form.

15:21
Daniel Scharff
I love it. So one of the things that I really appreciate about Dusra is, you know, you take a handful, and it is actually, to me, something like trail mix, but in a really different format where, like, you know, trail mix, you have, like, pieces of chocolate in there. And if you're someone like me, you might even just, like, hunt through and pick out little pieces of chocolate. But, you know, but also, it's actually very light compared to trail mix. So, like, you know, trail mix, I think you would traditionally feel like it's, like, pretty filling. There's a lot of heaviness in there. But actually, you know, it's.

15:50
Daniel Scharff
It's like chickpea puffs, and it's crunchy, and there is chocolate in here, but actually, when you're eating it doesn't feel like it's super heavy, which I think is why you guys both just saw me sit here and pig out on it for a while you were talking, like, having a bunch of handfuls. I'm like, this is very delicious and flavorful, but also, I mean, I really feel like I could just pour this whole bag in my mouth right now, and that would be fun.

16:10
Kartik Das
The. The name Dusra actual also means second, because we know one bite's never really going to be enough. And you're. You're. You're situated for it.

16:17
Daniel Scharff
How do you say ninth? Because that's what. That's what I'm on right now. The setting of record.

16:23
Kartik Das
Cool.

16:23
Daniel Scharff
And I see the pairs well with chai and yogurt and cocktails and ice cream. And if you just add pizza on there, then that's everything I like to eat and burger. So we're good to go.

16:33
Kartik Das
You know, I'm pretty sure we can make that happen for you. I mean, we can. We can talk to the folks making chickpea pizzas. We'll put this on there, fill a chocolate, we'll be good to go.

16:40
Daniel Scharff
All right. I love it. This is super cool. I hope everybody checks them out. So we do a lot of founder interviews on here, but the. Specifically with this episode, the thing that I really wanted to do was also just really help people understand what it's like when you work with a commodity board, because obviously they have all these resources that are basically free for you guys to have access to, which is a really cool thing for somebody who especially hasn't been down this full journey before and doesn't even know a lot of the stuff that they don't know. So can you tell me a little bit about, like. Yeah. How did you actually get connected with the California walnut board? What made you want to work with walnuts, for example, that they obviously are very happy to help you with?

17:20
Daniel Scharff
Tell me a story.

17:21
Kartik Das
Yeah, absolutely. So I think the important thing with working with anyone, especially with a walnut board, is you've got to be okay with knowing what you don't know. Right. So we launched with a. With another sku. It's a peanut and white chocolate version of this mixture with the same pus. And after a lot of conversation with our customers, there were so many folks who wanted something that was peanut free and was. Was vegan, that was dairy free. And so we knew were going to go down a dark chocolate route. And so the idea was we wanted to find something that gave the mixture texture in the same way it gave it that crumbliness. And I wanted a bit of that dairy feel because you'd losing the dairy with that dark chocolate, that vegan dark chocolate.

17:58
Kartik Das
And so initially I was trying to figure out, okay, what do I include in there? And like Keith mentioned, we met at a. At a trade show where they were doing a presentation of how walnuts could be utilized. And as someone with a culinary background, I was like, okay, I understand walnuts. This should be. This should be pretty straightforward. But they laid out, I think, almost seven to 10 different samples of different ways in which walnuts were used. You've got the whole. You've got the regular walnut, a roasted walnut. There were ways to use walnuts in meat, alternative products, in frozen products, in savory applications. But there was this one thing that looked like exactly what you said. It's a naked walnut. I was like, I've never seen it without skins.

18:36
Kartik Das
Because usually when you think of walnuts, you think of the bitterness and the astringency that the skins have a little bit of that flakiness when they tend to move around and fall apart. So I hadn't even considered walnut as an option, but when you tasted it had that crumbliness, it had the texture, it had the creaminess of almost like a walnut butter. Because, you know, those raw, skinless walnuts taste like they could easily become something that's a dairy alternative. And so immediately I was talking to Chef Robert, who was presenting along with Keith, and we talked about, okay, how would this be utilized? What is the shelf life of it? How does it work with other elements. How do I need to store it from a. From a.

19:14
Kartik Das
If I'm shipping it to a distributor, like, you know, how do I think about those things? And so went back and forth, and then I went away from that conference. We set up time with Keith and Deirdre, and we talked about, okay, what would be like to work with walnuts as a product in our. In our snack mix. I have no idea who to contact. I've got no idea how to source this. I have no idea from a costing perspective. And so went back and forth, and all I did was tell them what I was hoping to get out of this product, what I wanted it to feel like from a texture standpoint, how I wanted it to work from a costing standpoint. And they said, okay, I think we can work with this.

19:47
Kartik Das
They went away, and then I think it was like a week and a half later, they said, we've got something for you that. That could make sense. Shall we chat? We spoke and they said, we have these skinless models. We found a. A grower in California that can do that, and we'd be happy to support you as you figure out this bench testing by sending you some samples. Right. And for me, I wanted to make sure that the customers who are asking for these products got a sense of how to try it and taste it and validate it before went to market. So we spoke with them. They sent over some samples from a grower out there in California, and I just sampled it at events I was doing.

20:21
Kartik Das
You know, I was like, hey, this is a product that's coming out that we're working on, and we'd love to get your honest feedback on it. And the feedback was, wow, there's no dairy in here. How is there no dairy in here? Because the walnuts are skinless and there's a fatty texture to them and they crumble in the same way. People like this works really well. It's a different taste. So then you went back to rock and said, I think. I think we have something. What are the next steps now? And so from that point, they said, okay, great, let's connect you directly with the grower. Because now we've done our job in creating this, this collaboration, and now you can work with them.

20:52
Kartik Das
They put us directly in touch, and now we've placed our second order a couple of weeks ago, and it's been wonderful to work with them. It's been really simple. And then on top of that, I mean, speaking to Deandra who's been working with them, and we met Z fooj talked about the process product to a bunch of folks. We got to go on a little road trip. Well, this bag got to go on a little road trip to Chicago because were in their IFT case when they were talking to a range of other folks. And so as a brand, not only has the walnut board supported us in creating a product or finding an avenue to create a product, but then they're helping us down the road continue to talk about that product to folks who might never have found us.

21:27
Kartik Das
And so for that, we're very grateful.

21:28
Daniel Scharff
Isn't it amazing how serendipitous this world is when you're like, I was. Because I was at that conference too, at Nash, right? And they were doing the presentation, and I stopped in on it. It mainly because I like the look of the googly eyes on the walnut. That was very appealing to me. I stopped in. You know, you, like, he never could predict that, though. You're there, and you're just kind of like, there with an open mind. And then you find out about walnuts and meet them, and then they just happen to be these very deep walnut experts who then can go out and just find you the perfect thing that you're looking for it. It just like, man, it's a very beautiful world.

22:01
Daniel Scharff
Sometimes when you're just working on stuff like that and meet the right people who really are there to help you and everything just kind of comes together.

22:07
Kartik Das
I think that's what you and so many of these folks have done. I think so many founders or product developers have a sense of what they want to create. Right? But there's a difference between being a chef and a food scientist. So definitely between being someone who has created something culturally and then understanding how to navigate in a different environment or a different culture with ingredients that could work just as well. And so I think just putting yourself out there and trying new things could lead to these wonderful serendipitous moments.

22:33
Daniel Scharff
And I really like your approach about actually testing the product with real consumers to get feedback. I think that it just almost makes too much sense. But I think most people don't do it or don't have the capability to do it. They're like, no, we're just like, that's what they want, and this is a good one. And now we're going to launch it, and everyone's going to like it without actually having the chance to get that feedback cycle. And also, like, you know, I was talking about the flavor before I mentioned like a symphony. It's interesting to just think about, you know, you with your background, you have a lot of skills that a lot of founders may not come with. They may come with passionate, but, you know, they may not have this culinary background.

23:06
Daniel Scharff
Where I think for you, it's interesting because I feel like, you know, you're not just like a musician who understands one component, like one of the ingredients in the snack mix. You're. You're actually the conductor. And like, you know, you're not just evaluating whether you should have a product with walnuts in it, but also, like, what are the particular properties and taste characteristics of that actual walnut that are then going to work with the overall orchestra to create the right experience when it's all put together for the consumer, which is just very impressive to me. It's like, it's just hard for me, for myself, to imagine developing that skillset where I could just understand the whole composition of the things, thus what elements I would be looking for.

23:47
Kartik Das
It's. I appreciate that, Daniel, but, you know, when I went into this, when I first was thinking about this queue, walnuts weren't on my radar. I had identified something else to go in there already, and I had already started going down that route, right? I was like, okay, let. We're going to do this because it has dairy. It's got that. It's got that element to it. And we pivoted completely because we found something that worked better.

24:05
Daniel Scharff
And I also like that it's a very complimentary skew, right? Because I think a lot of times people are just like, well, we'll just launch this next thing. But then, you know, it cannibalize, or it might not be the right thing, but, you know, you listen to your consumers and you found something that will really help a lot of them that may not be able to go for the first one if they have a peanut allergy or a dairy allergy or something like that, or just a preference. So I think that's very cool. Keith, you're listening to all of this. Is this a very common story? Like, yeah, it does work like this, and people find us and then they're very excited in this way, or it's.

24:37
Keith Seiz
Never a common story because every brand we work with is different, you know, in this sense. I think how you describing Cardick as a conductor is perfect. You know, after that session, I remember talking with our chef in residence, you know, at the conference, and there was kind of a vision going where he wanted to go, and the whole dairy thing Was really great for us to hear because that's something that we're really starting to make a lot of progress on is just using walnut cream as a, you know, plant based dairy alternative and a whole lot of products.

25:11
Keith Seiz
So the fact that he saw that vision and knowing that it wasn't going to be just a traditional trail mix, nothing wrong with a traditional snack or anything like that, but we love that this was something that we could align in a completely unique product because, you know, as far as we know, there's no other snack product on the marketplace with skinless walnuts. This is a very first. So this is not something you're going to go into any, you know, 711 and grab and fail to find this. I mean, you have to go to doucher to find this product. And I think it's fantastic because from our standpoint, you know, as, you know, whenever you taste it's pretty unbelievable.

25:50
Keith Seiz
So, you know, we're big believers in it ourselves here, so it's easy for us to go, okay, this is something that we want to fully support because it's such a wonderful product and it's unique, which is always great for the market.

26:05
Kartik Das
I think if I could jump in there. Daniel, I think the real benefit of working with someone like Keith and the Walmart board is that they're representing two sides of the equation. Right. They want to help. The primary constituent is, are the growers trying to figure out how to take this incredible product and then you've got the brand coming in with no idea of what they want. And their real superpower is finding ways to mix it. Because there might be innovation that the walnut folks have come up with that are not, they're not advertising yet. Right. But I'm just giving them a problem to solve and they're saying we can solve it with walnuts. I think that's really the value of working with the board.

26:39
Daniel Scharff
That is cool. And in, actually in the webinar that we did the other day, it was funny because one of the people attending the webinar from our community was like, hey, my dad actually invented the whole method for doing skinless walnuts. So it was very funny that she was in there also. Quite serendipitous, I would say. That was sue and she has, she sells those skinless walnuts just like, just by themselves, not in anything, but very cool to have her there. Also growing in the Central Valley in California also. Keith, man, I'm hearing about nuts all the time right now. It definitely something that's trending, like, for sure, a lot of different kinds of nuts and, you know, people, I think, associating different benefits with them.

27:20
Daniel Scharff
What is going on in the world of nuts right now and, you know, specifically walnuts, how come people are interested in looking at them? For a variety of different reasons. But what makes consumers likely to pick up a product right now that has walnuts?

27:32
Keith Seiz
Yeah, I think it's. It's a couple different things. You know, first off, especially if you're talking about a. A food product, it's. It's. A lot of the times it's a texture. Walnuts have a really unique texture. They're not too hard, they're not too soft. They kind of. They're crispy, they're crunchy, but then they're not, you know, they're also chewy. So it's a really dynamic kind of texture. So that is kind of starting point for a lot of people whenever they want to use walnuts is we need that texture, whether it's in a food bar, whether it's, you know, in a, you know, vegan Bolognese sauce where you're using walnuts as kind of that meat replacement.

28:13
Keith Seiz
So, you know, we're seeing a lot of people kind of going to texture, but then we're also seeing just as many people looking at it as a whole food natural ingredient that's going to provide that texture, but it's also going to provide nutrition benefits, whether we're talking about the omega 3 fatty acids, the cognitive research that's coming out on the cognitive benefits of walnuts. So it's kind of the whole package. You know, you've got this one ingredient that can provide flavor, texture, and health benefits, and people are familiar with it. So it's that familiarity also, I think, is why, you know, nuts in general are becoming more popular in packaged foods, and walnuts specifically is because people kind of trust, you know, they trust that this is. I know what I'm getting, but it can also be kind of new to me. So it's.

29:05
Keith Seiz
I think all those things kind of mixed together is really kind of boosting walnuts right now in the food and beverage industry.

29:12
Kartik Das
That's.

29:12
Daniel Scharff
That's awesome. Also, when we did the webinar, I just was really interested to see the variety of, like, taste that you get and especially the top pairings that you see with walnuts also. And I know there was some pretty interesting stuff in there, like dark chocolate, you know, because I think a lot of pairings can make sweet products taste more savory and so, yeah, dark chocolate, vanilla, sesame, cayenne, sea salt, caramel, coffee, candied orange, cinnamon, chai spice. All of that stuff with walnuts being really frequent pairings was super interesting. And I also just. I was really interested just to see the diversity within walnuts, because I don't know that much about walnuts coming into this. And I'm like. Like, there are walnuts, right? And. But actually, no, you are in the world of walnuts now, and there's.

30:00
Daniel Scharff
Now you're on a journey because there are, like, you know, you have this very cool chart that's showing all of the different sizes and colors of walnuts. And I mean, this is, like, more complex than, you know, wine and, like, crying grapes and stuff and then. And like the whole flavor wheel experience that you guys have that just shows all of the different aroma profiles of walnuts and, you know, textures and tastes and all of that stuff. Can you tell everyone a little bit about that?

30:26
Keith Seiz
Yeah, and that's. It's one of the first things whenever we did the flavor wheel. That was kind of recently as we started kind of bolstering our culinary expertise in house and go down this route of how do we work with food brands to best support them? And it was. It was funny. You know, we would even talk to walnut growers themselves, you know, growers that have been around walnuts their whole life. And you ask them, what does a walnut taste like? And they have to sit and think about, you know, and they don't. It's hard to describe. And so were like, well, we need a flavor wheel. And once we sat down and developed the flavor wheel, it was something where you realize, you know, I've always known it's a complex flavor.

31:04
Keith Seiz
You know, the mixture of the, you know, the fatty acids, the oils and the meat, as well as kind of the tannins and the pellicle and things like that, it really creates this unique, complex flavor profile. But to sit down and think about it in terms of not only how it pairs, but also how the pea size even impacts that flavor. So you can buy walnuts, everything from ground walnuts that are used as, like a pie crust or an ice cream, all the way up to, you know, a full halve, and that's even going to taste different. You know, if you use small pieces in something, it's going to have a bit of a different taste. Then we've got varietals, we've got colors, everything like that. So it's great. From a standpoint of.

31:48
Kartik Das
Sure.

31:48
Keith Seiz
You can just Order walnuts. You can just put walnuts in a product and it'll be great. But you know, you can also, if you really want to tailor each bite that somebody's going to be tasting, you know, you can get a certain piece size to where, you know, okay, if I'm making a bar, I want every single bite to have a walnut in it, not every other bite. So you can do those kinds of things. So there's a whole world out there of ways we can sort of use complimentary flavors as well as pea size and even color to kind of deliver somebody the exact flavor profile they're looking for.

32:26
Daniel Scharff
And it's pretty interesting to see just how many products out there are using walnuts in different ways. I know during our webinar we had so many people chiming in the chat with stuff that I was not expecting. There were like walnut meatballs. And I know there's like, you know, plant based Bolognese pasta sauce using walnuts. And the Amy's. Amy's has a walnut and quinoa veggie burger, I think, and like, you know, walnut better butter and like, obviously the milked walnuts that you get from, you know, Elmhurst has like a walnut latte. I mean, I know you've probably seen a lot of stuff out there.

33:00
Keith Seiz
And it's even, you know, we export a lot of walnuts, you know, worldwide. And so, you know, we work with partners and countries all over the world and to see some of the ways they use walnuts and say Japan or India or the Middle east or Europe, it's, you know, it's completely different to how we use walnuts. So we see, you know, especially in a lot of plant based dishes, even a lot of things like fish stews, you'll see walnuts in them, all packaged products. So it's one of the benefits I have is I get to see all these products from all over the world that have walnuts in them. And it really helps us kind of bring new ideas and potentially new, innovative formats to, you know, food brands here.

33:45
Daniel Scharff
In the US So obviously Kartech has been able to take advantage of a lot of stuff that you guys have for, you know, a commodity board. Like, you guys, is there other stuff that you feel like people don't take as much advantage of that you have that you wish they would, that, you know, you're like, really eager to offer to them that, you know, if anybody out there is listening, they should know that this is a service they can ask you guys for.

34:07
Keith Seiz
I say listen To Kardik, just learn. That's the big thing. You know, we offer to any food brand, you know, the webinar we did, you know, with you, Daniel, earlier this week, we offer that to any food brand where we will, you know, sit down with them and give them a hour long 101 education on walnuts. And I think that's the biggest thing that most people miss is they think they know walnuts or even if they are very familiar with walnuts, they don't look at that as an opportunity where, well, maybe this will give me an idea that may not work now, but maybe two years down the road, three years down the road, that's a free service that we offer. And you know, we always come whenever we work specifically with food brands is we do the Walnuts 101. Yes.

34:58
Keith Seiz
But then we always pitch five ideas. So we look at their product line and we go, here are five ideas for new products. Here's exactly how we would do it. Here's why it would work from a marketing standpoint. And sometimes it does surprise me that people won't take advantage of that kind of free education and really just, okay, let me learn about something that I may not think I need, but who knows, maybe I do need.

35:23
Daniel Scharff
I feel like we're about to launch a TV show that's called so youo Think youk Know Walnut. And it's. It's a quiz show and you're the host and Kartik will be the plant and he'll be on there and just, I don't know, dropping all sorts of walnut knowledge. Kartik, when you were at Fancy Foods and when you're like starting to talk to more and more buyers, do they ask you questions about the specific ingredients that way? Like, are they just really focused on the overall product and composition or are they like, you used walnuts here? Like, yeah, that's like, makes sense because our consumers are looking for more stuff that has walnuts. Or do you. Does it come down to that ingredient level or is it mainly just they're interested in the overall product concept, The Indian snack mix, all the properties and flavors.

36:06
Kartik Das
I think it's varied. I think you've got folks who are, you know, first looking at, okay, what is the category? Right? And so in this case, it's salty snack, it's got Indian flavors. But then when they look a level down, you know, the same way folks are looking for a gluten free product. Right. Which ours happens to be, they're looking for, okay, we've got A lot of snack mixes in our set, but they're all peanut based. Right. And so we've got nothing for folks who have a peanut allergy.

36:29
Daniel Scharff
Right.

36:29
Kartik Das
So, okay, it looks like you're using something that's a little more allergen friendly in that space. And then there's the question, or the flip side is folks are asking, okay, are you using local ingredients? And now we get to say, yeah, our walnuts are right here from California. And so that also adds value for someone saying, okay, this is, this is a, a locally made product. Product. Right. And so there are different angles in which different consumers or different buyers are looking at the product. And then from a media perspective, you know, we want to support a lot of homegrown businesses. And so now by working with the California board while aboard, you're like, okay, there's a decent chunk of my product now that's locally made and locally sourced as we know it.

37:07
Kartik Das
For most, more and more folks are looking to support to source from local farms, to source from local growers. And this is a great way for you to align with that. I mean, I'll be completely honest, that wasn't the intention. But when you find a great product and you didn't get the additional benefits of that, it's quite serendipitous for someone who's trying to formulate something.

37:25
Daniel Scharff
Yeah, it's so interesting to think about. And I guess, I mean, when anytime I talk to one of our ingredient providers, they would tell me so much about the ingredient, that actually really helped me talk to buyers specifically and even thinking about product messaging, but just to really know the benefits and like sustainability stuff, like all about the ingredient then it gave me so much confidence and education information to talk to buyers in a very elevated way, I would say. Did you find that also?

37:55
Kartik Das
Yeah, it's helpful, right? Cause then if folks are asking. Because we always launch with flavor first. Right? And after the flavor, they're like, okay, what else separates you? Like, okay, so the product, not only is it allergen friendly, walnuts have so many health benefits. Right. I'll be the first to say we're not a health forward snack. I mean, we're better for you. But the idea is that now we have different ways to talk to different folks about how this fits into their lives. Right. Even hearing you and Keith go back, I was like, why is no one grinding walnuts and using that in a vodka sauce instead of dairy? Right? Because that could be a way for you to create that. Create that creamy nature in a, in a pasta sauce. But as far as I know, I don't know anyone doing that. Right.

38:32
Kartik Das
But that seems like a pretty simple application for something that's grown right here.

38:37
Daniel Scharff
Keith, you gotta hire Kardik for the walnut board.

38:40
Keith Seiz
I mean, the envelopes are coming his way.

38:43
Daniel Scharff
You know, let's go. We need 5 ideas cardig for every single brand. Let's go. Well, I just think that's so interesting and I love the partnership here. And just karting, it seems like you have a really great approach to being open to grow this brand, which, you know, like Indian snack mix, you might expect, like, oh, it's just going to be, you know, a very specific kind of mix that is very traditional. But it seems like you're open to evolving this and considering different kinds of things to really deliver the consumer experience. And it, like, it feels very true to, you know, how it's marketed. And the branding is fun and just the experience is really awesome. And I feel like reflects your approach to entrepreneurship. Like the actual taste reflects all of that.

39:28
Kartik Das
Yeah, I mean, Daniel, I mean, I'm like you. Right at the start, I was fishing out for chocolate. Right. I'm a sweet tooth at heart. But you want to take people and you want to give people something they've not had before. And at the end of the day, no matter how better for you the product is, what the macros are, if it doesn't taste good, it doesn't really matter. Right. And so the lane that we're going is we just want to make you smile. And if that works, great. And if not, thank you for giving us a try.

39:52
Daniel Scharff
What do you think the plan is going to be? To get a lot of people to try this. Because I'm pretty sure when they try it, they will love it. But, you know. Yeah. Who's that target consumer, do you think, to start and. Yeah, how are you going to really spread word about this product to everybody?

40:09
Kartik Das
Yeah, I think the methodology we're taking is very much slow, steady. We're here for a while, so we know that introducing a product, the differentiated flavor and then with this skew, combining things that even indian cuisine you wouldn't see together. Right. So boondi and peanuts, you can see that elsewhere, but you'll almost never see a walnut with these chickpea puffs. So what we do is we do plenty of events where we are sampling. I also, I almost have a policy when I, when we sell in person, I refuse to let someone buy the product until they try it, because I would much rather you have an understanding of what this product is here and not spend your money if you don't like it. But then if you do, great, I, I know I never have to talk to you again.

40:50
Kartik Das
You will be talking about this to everybody else. Right. So we do a lot of events, we do a lot of conventions. You know, things like Wine and Whiskey Festival where you don't expect to see an Indian snack mix, but where they're talking about how walnuts end. This vegan dark chocolate, which you would normally see in a brownie, come together when you are pouring a glass of wine or hosting with a beer. Right. You don't think a walnut is a beer snack as much, but now here we have an opportunity to do that. And so that's what we're doing. We're just sampling it at every single point we can. And so we're not in a lot of large retail. We're doing a lot of independent stuff.

41:23
Kartik Das
But we will send single shot samples to stores so they can just put it out and people can have that experience. That's what we do.

41:30
Daniel Scharff
That's because you know if you do that, they're going to want it. I would, I was just sitting here eating it thinking like, man, this would go great at a, like total Wine and more. Have this with beer. This is a much better experience than what you're used. They're usually going to put in front of you at the bar.

41:47
Kartik Das
Right.

41:48
Daniel Scharff
And it's nice and salty and I might have to arrange for that after this podcast.

41:53
Kartik Das
We can make it happen.

41:54
Daniel Scharff
All right, so as we start wrapping up here. Yeah, Kartik, I actually am curious though, just on that retail front. Basically, it seems like you guys are slow and steady, like you're going to start evaluating these opportunities as they come and make the right decisions for your brand. Not too over eager or anything to immediately land like you know, national accounts or anything or what. How are you thinking about it?

42:15
Kartik Das
Yeah, we've had interest from a range of regional and actual retailers, but we've said no because we know we're not going to be able to support them in the way they need to. So we're trying to build a business where we are, we're building a little food service business. Right. We're working with a few bars that have this on their bar menu is a bar snack. We're working with some corporate offices to have us in their snack dispensers. Right. If you walk in next to the granola, if you had those. Right. You can have as much as you like, trying to reduce the friction to that initial trial and then finding different ways for us to be able to, you know, maybe in 2026, the second half of that to support a regional launch, because now people know what it is.

42:54
Kartik Das
You have cash in hand, and we're confident enough that the flavor is bringing people back. And then we'll. And we're focusing on the Northeast. We're based here out in New York, and so I. Well, I'd love Keith, you know, drop a whole bunch in wineries all over or all over Napa. I think we'll get out there at some point. But for now, we're staying in the Northeast.

43:12
Keith Seiz
Sounds like a great idea to me as well.

43:15
Daniel Scharff
That sounds like a service that I'm sure Keith would love to.

43:17
Keith Seiz
Daniel may join us on that trip.

43:19
Daniel Scharff
Yes. If we have to go to every winery, then we'll do it. All right, boys, trip, let's go. I love that approach, Kartik. It almost sounds too reasonable, like.

43:28
Keith Seiz
Yes.

43:28
Daniel Scharff
Isn't that what everyone should do, like, grow the business responsibly, based off creating awareness and demand in a nice, you know, thoughtful way before just going and blowing all your cash on big national launches before anyone knows about it? So I. It sounds like you're being quite. Yeah. Thoughtful about your approach, Keith, just as we're finishing up here, any. What else do you think people should know about, you know, commodity boards in general and, like, you know, maybe how you guys compare with other commodity boards out there or just people should really know about all of them in general? Anything to kind of leave us with.

43:59
Keith Seiz
Yeah, I think the big thing is just take advantage of the resources they all offer. I think we push things way more on the food innovation side just because I feel we're in a unique position with walnuts to where there's not this massive backlog of knowledge of how to incorporate it into a packaged food and some ideas and things like that. So I think we're kind of in an advantageous position. And one of the reasons why we love working with startups and founders is that we're in a position to really position it as something unique and innovative.

44:37
Keith Seiz
So I would say the big takeaway is to use the resources and then, you know, in our instance, really capitalize on the educational component because, you know, it's something that who doesn't want to know more about, you know, something going on in the food industry with an ingredient, and it's a free resource. So it may lead to your next skew. So take advantage of it.

44:59
Kartik Das
Daniel, can I just say one thing there? I think a lot of times in this industry, you're working with so many different folks who are trying to protect their. Who have a vested interest in protecting their bottom line, and they're selling a service, they're selling something where they, at the end of the day, are, you know, making money from it. It's hard because there's often tension as to who is. Who is benefiting and who is really who's got your best interest at heart. And I think at the end of the day, you want to work with people you enjoy working with. And, you know, I've been very fortunate to work with the team over there. And not only they just nice people, but there's no vested interest on that side.

45:30
Kartik Das
And I think just going into that conversation with that very clear mindset on both sides just makes that conversation a lot easier to happen. I know Keith won't give himself credit for that, but, you know, his team has been fantastic in making me feel at ease that they're not trying to sell me something.

45:43
Keith Seiz
That's the best part of the job.

45:46
Kartik Das
We can.

45:47
Keith Seiz
That is why I love it.

45:49
Daniel Scharff
That's amazing. Well, Kartik, really big congrats on all the early success. So, yeah, I was really. I just kept hearing about you guys at Fancy Food, so I hope that was a great show for you all. And, Keith, thank you so much for just sharing all this info. I really like for everyone to kind of live through this example, just to understand some of the resources that are out there, because this is a very hard industry to be successful in. But, you know, when you look at the different pockets, you find a lot of people out there who are, you know, willing to help. And obviously, Keith, you guys have a mission, which is to support the California walnut growers out there, and this is how you do it.

46:24
Daniel Scharff
But I think, you know, your model is a lot like ours, which is you're just. You're trying to provide a lot of value, and that's the way to help a lot of people as well, through education, you know, through opportunities. So I love to see it, and I love to see this beautiful partnership as well. And everybody, if you haven't had Dusra that. I'm not messing around here. You got to try it, go to the website, buy it, maybe rate it on Amazon also for bonus points. That's how we do it. So great. Thank you both so much for joining us here today, and I hope everybody enjoyed this as much as I did.

46:57
Kartik Das
Thank you, Keith. Thank you, Daniel. Appreciate it.

47:02
Daniel Scharff
All right, everybody, thank you so much for listening to our podcast. If you loved it, I would so appreciate it if you could leave us a review. You could do it right now. If you're an Apple podcast, you can scroll to the bottom of our Startup CPG Podcast page and click on Write a Review. Leave your company name in there. I will try to read it out. If you're in Spotify, you can click on about and then the star rating icon. If you are a service provider that would like to appear on the Startup CPG podcast, you can email us@partnersartupcpg.com lastly, if you found yourself grooving along to the music It Is My Band, you can visit our website and listen to more. It is superfantastics.com thank you everybody. See you next time.