The Startup CPG Podcast

Ashley Fields
Our number one priority from day one was that you shouldn't have to choose between healthy and heavenly. We were relentless about creating the best tasting cookie first and then working on the functional benefits after. What we really want to do is flavor, then function.

00:27
Kim Anderson
We want to be a brand that gives more than promises to customers when they eat our food, when they experience our brand. Because customers don't just want promises, they want proof. We are on the side of we want trust. And we can prove that out with our product, with our brand, and with partners that have studies attached.

00:45
Katie Emerson
And I feel like that's kind of where we're trying to go with branded ingredients is just when someone talks about brain health, it's a no brainer. Like obviously Cognizin Citicoline is gonna get you there because we have over 25 human clinical studies. We really love to partner and we love to do co marketing and co branding together. Because your success, our success.

01:06
Daniel Scharff
Hello, my friends. As you know, functional foods are everywhere now. Cognitive and wellness ingredients are showing up in snacks, desserts, and so much more. And today we are going to introduce you to an exciting new cookie brand. You might have heard about it. It's from self professed Nepo baker Ashley Fields. Her mom defined the classic cookie experience for Americans and now her new brand Fields Good includes protein cookies, sleep cookies, and a mocha dark chocolate focus cookie, which prominently features Cognizin citicoline, which we're definitely going to dig into. We talk about how they balance, how consumers look for indulgence and also brain health and wellness, the customer journey, and how a brand makes a decision around including a branded ingredient. Thanks a lot to Katie Emerson and our partners at Cognizin for joining this episode.

01:56
Daniel Scharff
If you want to learn more about them, check out the link in the show notes. All right, let's go. Let's get cooking. All right, welcome everybody to the podcast. I hope you're excited to talk about cookies today. We're gonna get into it. I know it's a tough job, but someone's gotta do it. I'm here tasting cookies, testing cookies. Let's go. Okay, so I'm really excited to have the team from Fields Good Cookies here as well as Katie from Kiyo Haku USA that makes Cognizin that's prominently featured in the product. Just to kick us off, Ashley, I'd love to start with you for an intro, please. I saw that you were recently called a Nepo Baker by Snackshot, which I think everybody really enjoyed. Could you just kick us off with a bit of an intro here. Yeah.

02:41
Ashley Fields
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to chat with all of you today. I'm a proud Nepo baker, which I think is infinitely better than a Nepo baby. But as many people may know, I do come from a family legacy of people that love making cookies, but Fields Good is its own thing. It's a project that Kim and I have been working on for several years, and so excited to finally bring it to market.

03:06
Daniel Scharff
All right, very exciting. Okay, Kim, I am coming to you next.

03:10
Kim Anderson
Hello, I am Kim Anderson. I'm the co founder, chief brand officer at Fields Good. I'm also the former roommate of Ashley, where we met at Stanford before we ended up working together in this new venture. And we are just so excited to talk about our cookies with benefits.

03:27
Daniel Scharff
All right, very good. Maybe we'll get into some fun roommate stories too at the end. Okay, Katie, thank you so much for joining us. It is very fun to see so many products cropping up that are using Cognizin Cetacholine. Could you give everybody an intro as well?

03:43
Ashley Fields
Sure.

03:44
Katie Emerson
Katie Emerson, senior manager of scientific and regulatory affairs at Kiwahako usa. We're known as the Cognizin people, so we're an ingredient supplier, but we do so much more than that, hence doing podcasts with our key partners. I'm also a registered and licensed dietitian, so I am here for the cookies. I love a cookie with a benefit, but I love even more a cookie that tastes good. So having had them, I'm super excited, so can't wait to dive in and, like, talk more about it.

04:13
Daniel Scharff
All right, so, Katie, let me actually just start with a question for you, which is functional foods are just everywhere now, Right? I feel like that's the thing that we just see all over every category. And certainly everyone knows the protein trend, right? At Expo, you can't go to booths without seeing, like, protein combined with something, creating some new product. But we are also starting to see other things crop up as well. And especially I think we're seeing brain health a lot more. We've seen it in some of the brands from our community. Magic Mind. A lot of people starting to incorporate that more in food and beverage. Why do you think this is happening now?

04:53
Katie Emerson
I think I'm gonna trigger a lot of RDs by saying this, and I'm okay. I've always been the black sheep from the dietetic community. I think functional food is the way of the future. Like, I know a lot of people are like, oh my gosh, another thing that contains protein. Why are we so obsessed with protein? And I'm like, we should be obsessed with protein. We should be obsessed with functional foods. Food is a way that we get our nourishment to become healthy. Why not take it one step further and give you something other than just the nourishment that your body requires for optimal levels of function? Why not give it a cognitive benefit?

05:27
Katie Emerson
Why not give you more muscle mass, ability to build those muscles through protein, or at the end of the night, have a cookie that's going to help you sleep with your milk? I don't see the negative to all these functional foods. I just see it as a way of how we're just changing the landscape. And I'm hoping that people be more receptive and welcoming to it because I think it's here to stay, basically.

05:51
Daniel Scharff
I guess another way to answer that question is, do you prefer non functional foods don't have a function. Okay.

05:58
Katie Emerson
Everything has a function, right? Like, let's talk about blueberries for brain health. People aren't going, oh my gosh, let's not eat blueberries because they're functional. Everything has a purpose in what we eat, whether that is for nutrition or even like mood boosting. Do you feel good when you eat something that's comforting? There's a function attached to it. So yeah, I think everything is here to stay for that purpose.

06:20
Daniel Scharff
It's pretty interesting and coming fresh off fancy food, man. I'm seeing a lot of interesting stuff crop up. A lot of beauty claims on products as well. And not just like may support some beauty thing in small font, but eat this for your beauty. You eat this thing and you will be more beautiful, like really prominently across the top. So of course I ate a bunch.

06:42
Katie Emerson
And it worked, right? What is that? No, I'm just kidding.

06:45
Daniel Scharff
Yeah, a lot of skincare. There's so many functions cropping up. So it's pretty exciting to see if we're talking specifically about brain health, though. Obviously you guys go very deep in that area with Cognizin. Why do you think we're seeing so many products then tied to brain health? Do you think that there is something in the air the last few years? I have my own suspicions about, especially coming out of COVID stuff like that. What do you think?

07:10
Katie Emerson
Yeah, I think we talked about this before coming out of the COVID era. I think that really opened the mindset of people realizing at a younger age brain health is so important and it wasn't just about the elderly and the memory and just the executive function. But like, the younger generation was starting to see the importance behind being able to focus and have attention and being able to have that mental clarity to get you through a workday when you. We started to go into this remote environment where we're not really socially engaged with our peers anymore and we're kind of stuck on this computer. And there's positives and negatives to remote work.

07:51
Katie Emerson
But I think the thing that's really come out of it is there's an aspect to our brain that maybe isn't being stimulated in the same way that it was when were going into the office. And actually I feel like I'm more productive at home than I ever was in the office. So sometimes that productivity, the overload, that mental stress and fatigue hits me a little bit harder because I feel like I'm doing more. And so those expectations have kind of raised the bar for employees. And so at the end of the day, we just feel drained. And you think of that not just from a physical stance, but a mental stance too. Like, do you have the mental capacity to hang out with your family after a long day?

08:30
Katie Emerson
So that mental cognitive focus has become so prevalent in all generations, not just the older demographics. I think the 20 year olds are now like, oh, I really need to take care of my brain today so I can function in my 70s and my 80s.

08:45
Daniel Scharff
Okay, and one more question before we dig into the cookie story, which is what do you think it takes for a functional ingredient to get to that mainstream part? Let's say one ingredient that I think is pretty mainstream, let's say, is caffeine. Right. It's very much ingrained into our culture and so many cultures, whatever the delivery mechanism is, if you prefer coffee or a monster energy drink, like, whatever people are drinking it, like, I think people generally feel like, yes, caffeine, I associate that everybody knows it works or everyone thinks it has the efficacy, all that stuff. What does that curve look like for ingredients that people are less familiar with? Like, okay, cool, here is this Cognizin product and it supports brain health. What is the journey of that for people? Learning, learning about it and then understanding the impact that it has?

09:34
Katie Emerson
I think it's all around education and I think just the way that we market things. Because I mean, caffeine goes way back. But let's use creatine as a good example.

09:43
Kim Anderson
Right?

09:43
Katie Emerson
Creatine started back in the 80s 90s with bodybuilders. And once the research started taking off and then it was for the sports and active nutrition space. And now it's becoming in the brain health space and fertility. And now everyone's like, oh, kids can have it. It's not just for the meatheads. Right. So, like, it's. As time has gone by, I feel like the education has gotten better, the marketing has gotten better, and people actually understand what it is. So it's the same thing with caffeine. Would I love to be like a caffeine or a B vitamin and be in everything? I would love that because it's so great. It's such an amazing compound that our bodies need. And as we're discovering more, it's not just for brain health. It's for so many other aspects of the body.

10:25
Katie Emerson
Again, we could talk about that for hours as we do the research, but I think it starts with education and people being open to listen to what it is and not putting up a roadblock and being like, we don't need functional cookies.

10:38
Daniel Scharff
That's so interesting. I love the way that you're talking about creatine, especially because I have been alive, I've been present, I think, for the journey of that functional ingredient where, yeah, back in high school, it was a weird thing that the bodybuilders used. You're like. I don't know, you get like big on that. I don't think you're supposed to do it. And there's a funny south park cartoon about.

10:59
Katie Emerson
Yes, I know that one.

11:00
Daniel Scharff
Cartman taking it beefcake. Like just pounding on creatine and bulking up. And now it's totally different. And everybody takes it for a different reason.

11:08
Katie Emerson
It's becoming normalized. Right. Like, it doesn't have as such a negative association. We're still combating some of those myths, but I feel like people are listening. They want to know more. And so we got to break down those barriers.

11:21
Daniel Scharff
Yeah. So I think that's a great way to think about it. And the reason I ask that is because there's so many brands out there who are using different kinds of functional ingredients in their products and probably wondering, yeah, where are people on the curve of understanding what these ingredients do and where will they get to and what role do we play in educating them about those ingredients as well? And whether you're talking about L theanine, which Fields Good, you guys use in the sleep cookie, or just all sorts of adaptogens that are out there and lion's mane and all these different things. Like, I don't know what a lot of them are, but I do know what Some of them are. And so it's just really interesting to think about it that way.

11:57
Daniel Scharff
Okay, so let's talk about the cookie journey, and then later, let's come back and talk about the intersection of these things and what that means for everybody. So, Ashley, coming to you. I would love to just talk a little bit about the history of this thing, because when I grew up, everybody knew fields cookies. This is like classic nostalgia cookies, especially at a rest stop. That's like the first thing that I would think about a feels cookie. Grab one there. Nice, warm, delicious. Everybody knows. So coming off that, what made you want to take that legend and then also bring it into this new functional world?

12:32
Ashley Fields
Yeah. For me, the greatest gift growing up was seeing how a cookie could be so much more than a cookie, and I think specifically a delicious cookie. So in my household, cookies were so much more than dessert. They were a celebration. They were a way to connect with others. And I think for so many people, that's what's so special about a cookie, is that it's the most emotional, resonant food factor that we have, especially in American culture. And so I really fell in love with baking as a baby. I was always learning and playing with the dough and trying to understand what makes a great cookie so delicious.

13:12
Kim Anderson
And.

13:12
Ashley Fields
And so I always had that passion throughout my life. I baked cookies for everyone that I knew. I always bring cookies to dinner parties. I'm never bringing a bottle of wine. I'm always bringing cookies, because I think it shows the love and care that you feel for others. And so I knew the power of a delicious cookie. And the goal was, if a delicious cookie can make a person happy, what if that cookie could do even more? What if it could also make them feel something? And so to your point earlier about this education that is needed in educating about these new ingredients and what we're putting in our food, I think it's not only about education, but about the efficacy. So I might not be able to pronounce this active.

13:57
Ashley Fields
I might not be able to tell you exactly what it does, but I actually feel something. And for me, that matters. So our mission was we want to make a delicious cookie, but we want to increase the occasion and frequency with which you reach for a cookie. And that's how Fields Good Functional Cookies was born.

14:15
Daniel Scharff
I really like the point around cookies and just overall significance they carry. I mean, like they say, if you're trying to sell a house, you have the realtor come in, like, bake cookies because of the smell of the cookies. It's so powerful for people. And actually, that is one of my best party tricks is if I have people over at my house, which I love to do, is just to have some cookies baking. It's very exciting for people, and it's not expensive, but it's something that makes people feel really at home and excited. You're right. There is a really strong emotional connection around cookies. That is awesome. I just have to ask, because I think everybody listening wants to know a little bit more, since we're talking about growing up. Like, what is it like to grow up in a household like.

14:58
Daniel Scharff
Like that, where all of your friends know what it is, and I'm sure you hear about it, like, what is it like on the inside of that?

15:04
Ashley Fields
It is so chaotic. So I am one of five girls, and as you can imagine, a household with that much estrogen not only has those things to deal with, but then also always having sugar and cookies around. But I couldn't have asked for a better childhood. And really, my parents, especially my mom, as the original female entrepreneur. I think for so many of us, I was actually talking about this to someone earlier when were kids, and people would ask what your parents would do. I had some knowledge that my parents baked cookies. Right. Like, that was clear to me. But it wasn't until later in life that I really understood the business significance of what they built together and the complete disruption and creation of a new category. I mean, fresh, hot cookies, they didn't exist.

15:52
Ashley Fields
They may be able to get one from a local bakery, but it was likely baked the night before. And so that whole philosophy about wanting to deliver a fresh, warm, and hot cookie was so novel. And it really is now. Looking back and seeing what it takes to be an industry leader often involves making people feel being uncomfortable. The price of the cookie was so different. Yeah. I mean, growing up, we always had nicknames, right? Like, I was Cookie Monster. It was really fun to do photo shoots. Whenever they would do photo shoots, this was at least, like, in the 90s. Like, before they took pictures, they would aerosol everything so it would make it look really shiny. But as kids, you don't know that. So you're, like, reaching up on the counter to eat something.

16:32
Ashley Fields
And so I've probably ingested more aerosol than is likely. Okay. Like Aquanet, basically.

16:38
Daniel Scharff
That's so funny to think about. I grew up in a household with four sisters as well, so I can relate to that. And I wish I had known that trick about placating people with cookies to try to get myself out of Some jams that I definitely got into.

16:52
Ashley Fields
No wonder you turned out so well.

16:54
Daniel Scharff
Yeah. Thank you. And so the next question I'd love to know a little bit more about is. Okay, so yes. Warm, fresh cookies, one of the joys in life. And with Fields. Good. So I think you could call this more of a wellness oriented cookie. Right. Can you just talk a little bit more about bridging that gap of okay. You have cookies which are so important and fun for so many reasons. And I love cookies and for emotional reasons and they're delicious and they make if you look good and sometimes you just need a cookie. But let's say standard cookies do not have a health halo around them and your product does and your product is functional and has these wellness oriented things around it. How do you bridge those two things?

17:35
Daniel Scharff
How do you bridge the cookie with all of the connotations that a cookie has and the reasons people look to cookies to then moving towards. This is a functional food also. And it is something that you should think about that way.

17:46
Ashley Fields
Yeah. So our number one priority from day one was that you shouldn't have to choose between healthy and heavenly. And to your point, you really have two sides of the aisle. You have a very delicious, overly indulgent cookie that tastes delicious but makes you not feel so great after. And then you do have some players in the functional space where they really over deliver on the benefits and under deliver on the taste. And knowing that taste is paramount. I knew that I had to create a cookie that tasted so good that the functional benefits disappeared. So that was my marching order. And I can tell you, after 18 months of thousands of pounds of cookie dough and cookies that have been thrown away, were relentless about creating the best tasting cookie first and then working on the functional benefits after.

18:37
Ashley Fields
So for us, our cookies should taste as good as they make you feel. And that importance is equally weighted. Right. Is if this cookie doesn't taste delicious, then I don't really that it has functional benefits. And so I think for the first time we really swept. We really changed that model because before it was function then flavor in what we're seeing now and what we really want to do is flavor then function.

19:01
Katie Emerson
So thank you, Ashley and Kim, for sending me cookies. I immediately opened the Cognizin cookie, which is the mocha. So it's beautifully chocolate. Yes. Oh my gosh. So I started nibbling on it and mine are gone.

19:13
Ashley Fields
Sorry, I don't have one.

19:14
Katie Emerson
My husband came in, I was like, oh my gosh, the cookies are here. You have to try this cookie, and he starts nubbling on it, and he's like, I don't know. The taste is, like, good, but, like, it's really mochi. Like, a high flavor of mocha. And I was just like, okay, whatever. I turned to do the dishes, and I was like, within 30 seconds, I turned back, the entire cookie was gone. He ate it. And I was like, dude, that was my cookie. Luckily, they sent me two. And I go, I thought you said it was too much mocha. He goes, I changed my mind. Like, once I started tasting it, like, the flavor just, like, got better in my mouth. And he's like, the cookie was so good. And I was like, that is something I've always told our customers.

19:53
Katie Emerson
It's like, it doesn't matter the benefit that the cookie is going to give you. If it doesn't taste good, they're not going to get the benefit. So the fact that these cookies taste so good. I love what you said. The benefit is what comes after you enjoy it because of the taste. And I actually went to bat in some of the comment sections because people were like, oh, my God, another functional cookie. Probably tastes like. And I was like, actually, it tastes really good. Wait till you try it. You're gonna eat your worth. So I just wanted to share that because it was so such a funny story. And I didn't get to eat both cookies. I only got to eat the one. But I'm gonna order more.

20:23
Ashley Fields
We'll get you some more.

20:24
Kim Anderson
I was gonna say we can send you some more, but I would say, like, that comment, since we've launched, has been what has made our world and why we spent so long. Because it would have been so easy. Especially because, like, Ashley has been baking since she was born. It would be so easy to make a cookie and have it taste bad but have function. We could have launched two years ago if we took the direction, but because were so focused on, we want to create something that is different than anything in the market, and the market is right now a sacrifice. We want it to be a cookie first. And so to hear that of, like, oh, I didn't even realize something was in it. Oh, it actually tastes good. Has been, like, somewhat insulting, but also very exciting.

21:03
Katie Emerson
You nailed it. You know, Good job.

21:04
Daniel Scharff
All right, so. So, Katie. So you're probably divorced now because he took the cookie.

21:09
Katie Emerson
No, he's just like, more cookies. Oh, my.

21:12
Daniel Scharff
That would be grounds for me if somebody ate my precious cookie. But glad that you are more mature than me.

21:17
Katie Emerson
I had a second.

21:19
Daniel Scharff
Okay. So, Kim, I Think this is a good place to rope you in, because the discussion about, like, making, like, kind of balancing the two, the wellness and the cookie aspect of it. And like, for me, I think maybe some dietitians or nutritionists out there or, like, just perfect people would be like, no, you eat like a salad and then you go to bed and there's nothing in between. Like, that's not the reality for me. Like, I eat sweet things before I go to bed. Very predictably, I'm going to have something. And hopefully it's not me going, like, I live in the West Village in New York City, and there are three pretty legit fresh cookie bakery places on my block. I'm next to the chip city. I'm next to the insomnia. There's a crumble not far away.

22:04
Daniel Scharff
Depending on how my day went, I might venture over there and get something that is huge and probably not that healthy, but it's just going to happen. Sometimes that's the life that I live. That's the human that I am. And so. And I actually found that I can make it less likely that I will do that if I have a different treat that I like that's in my house. And then I don't feel the need to kind of do that and let's say overindulge. And so I really do see the role for things that are indulgent. Maybe you feel like you just need something sweet, but then also have other things that they can do or other benefits that they have. That's great.

22:40
Daniel Scharff
So, Kim, how do you think about communicating all these things to consumers, trying to package up all of these different benefits in a way that makes it seem delicious and fulfill that need for people to have something as indulgent but also communicate the benefits of it.

22:56
Kim Anderson
Yeah. Well, I think something that you said is kind of the core of our thesis, which is like, we're all human, right? There's no perfection. And that's what we wanted our brand to feel like. We didn't want it to feel like, to Ashley's point earlier, you had to choose, I need something either healthy or I want something like a little cheeky. So we feel like we are sitting at this intersection of permissible indulgence, which I feel like it's starting to become its own subcategory within the. Honestly, like the snack world. And that isn't just our formulation. That's not just our amazing bakery staples that we put in our cookies as well as the actives. It's everything from our language. Like, we didn't want to lean too clinical, but we still wanted to be really trusted. So we did that.

23:35
Kim Anderson
In choosing to go with a Cognizin versus, like, an off brand of some of our Actives, we did that by making sure that our packaging didn't look too clinical but could still be trusted. We still have our Actives really front and center on our packaging. On our product pages, we're citing the sources. We wanted to be trustworthy, but also fun because we know there are. I think, like, the data now is, like, 70% of customers are looking for food that does more and also in the dessert category. So we didn't want to hide our functional ingredients. Like, transparency is part of our recipe, but we wanted to blend and bring back in the fact that it's a cookie. So it should feel joyous, it should feel warm. We want it to tap into this nostalgia that is America's favorite dessert.

24:18
Kim Anderson
So we didn't want it to feel kind of like old school. Apple stores, Clinical white dosage times new roman font. We wanted to play with typography. We wanted to play with the color on our packaging. Something that I would say is another element that we stick to is just this balance. And again, we do that across so many elements of the brand. I have this right here. But if you look at it like our core brand, all of our colors are custom, of course, and this is where I can get, like, very nerdy from a brand standpoint. But we have, like, our classic cocoa. This beige is our flower. This, like, old school, retro kind of American diner checker print. That's old school. That's homey. That's kind of like grandma's kitchen.

24:54
Kim Anderson
And then our packaging is, like, full, bright, pops off the shelf, a little bit more modern. And that balance, again, of ingredients, of colors, of packaging, honestly, and how we speak to our consumers is what we wanted to hit at. So we could show, like, you can have your cookie and feel it too. You can have both sides, and you.

25:12
Ashley Fields
Don't have to choose.

25:13
Daniel Scharff
Okay, so let me ask you a question about how do you choose which type of cookie goes with which function? Because in front of me, I have three different cookies that you make. We have the focus cookie, and that's mocha dark chocolate delicious. And then we have the protein cookie, which is peanut butter cookie, and then the sleep cookie, which is oatmeal raisin. So three of your major hit cookies. I can kind of see how you would decide peanut butter would be the obvious choice for the protein cookie, because peanut butter, like, nuts Got some protein. Protein power. Okay. But overall, how do you decide which of these cookies is going to be the right flavor, texture, feel for that particular function that somebody's looking for?

25:57
Ashley Fields
Yeah, I love that question. So probably, like so many of the founders that you've interviewed, is what you think you're going to do and what you actually do end up being two very different things. So my bread and butter at home is a milk chocolate chip cookie, my favorite flavor. And so when we first started out on this journey, I wanted every function to be a milk chocolate chip, maybe a little semi sweet. What I found was because taste is paramount, it's much more challenging to hide the taste impacts of the actives in a chocolate chip cookie. So that ended up being a failure. Those were multiple failed rounds where the cookie tasted okay, but it didn't taste amazing across each functional category.

26:40
Ashley Fields
And, and so then I asked myself, what are the flavors that lend themselves already either the need state that we're trying to achieve or lend themselves to the functional goal that we have. So for us, a mocha dark chocolate, right. Caffeine, mocha is already associated with an enhanced state of mind. So that became clear that would be the cookie that we would go with for a creatine and citicoline combo. And the cocoa and the mocha themselves already add that natural caffeine to get that boost. Then we had the protein cookie. Like you said, the problem with so many, I think, protein bars and protein cookies today is that it tastes like cardboard. And that's because you're usually adding so much additional protein and it's dense and thick and doesn't taste great.

27:28
Ashley Fields
So when you start with a base that is already high in protein, with peanut butter, we're able to achieve a soft, baked, chewy, homestyle peanut butter cookie much more easier than we would with a chocolate chip. For example, the third one, oatmeal raisin, for me, was one. Oats are very high in magnesium already. But most importantly, I think in American culture, oatmeal raisin is arguably the most nostalgic cookie. It gives you grandma vibes and you're thinking about your nighttime ritual. And that cookie and that flavor for me really wrapped you into like a nice warm cookie blanket. I think that as we continue to innovate and just, you know, we don't put anything artificial in our cookies. So I really wanted to amplify the natural flavors that were using. I love vanilla extract more than anything, pure vanilla extract.

28:17
Ashley Fields
And so I think as we continue to innovate by adding additional flavors to each functional category. It's really going to be continuing to just figure out how we make sure that it's a cookie first and a functional benefit second.

28:31
Daniel Scharff
Okay, so, and then speaking of functional benefits, maybe, Kim, this is a good question for you. What is the shopper's journey here? Whether it's on your website, direct to consumer or on retail shelves. Who is choosing this? Is this because they are looking for the function and then they discover, I could have that through a cookie. What a good time. And then they find the cookie. Or is it because they are shopping the cookie aisle and then they're like, oh, well, I could have a cookie. But also it could do something. And let me check this out. Is it both? What's the story?

29:01
Kim Anderson
Yeah, I think that's something we will continue to learn over time, especially as we're currently D2C only and expanding into retail, including in New York in a quick 10 days. So what we know from an audience standpoint, both like, who's reaching for it and where are they reaching for it. We're likely not for the extremist.

29:19
Katie Emerson
Right.

29:19
Kim Anderson
Because we sit in that category of permissible indulgence. We are healthy.

29:24
Katie Emerson
Ish.

29:24
Kim Anderson
We are making smarter swaps in our cookies and then adding things in. And I think the starting place of we didn't take everything out of a cookie. We're not anti everything and know everything. We have butter, sugar and smarter swaps within that world, which Ashley can definitely talk more about. And because of that, in terms of who's reaching for us, so far we've seen it's both. It's someone that's like, oh, wait, there's good stuff in here. Amazing. It's a cookie especially for, I would say, like today's modern consumer who is, we know from data, is looking for more things out of their food. We definitely get that customer.

29:56
Kim Anderson
I think as we start to enter into spaces where we are in the aisle, because right now we can be in protein, we can be in standard cookies, we can be next to Oreos, we can be in natural and whole because of how intense we are about our ingredient selection and our formulations. And we want to kind of test to see where do we see from a business standpoint, the highest velocity. But where can we reach different members of the family, different part of the household and different occasions. So obviously our sleep cookie, for example, where they're reaching for that might be a little bit different than our protein and focus cookie because of occasion and time of day.

30:31
Kim Anderson
So it's something right now that we are really excited to get more data as we enter into retail to see where we can be valuable to the customer in terms of where they find us.

30:40
Daniel Scharff
That makes sense. And you've covered a lot of the need states I think that people have throughout the day. We've got the focus. Okay, I'm at work, I need to pay attention and here I've got this cool podcast coming up. I gotta get it right. I've got my workout and I've got my sleep time. I don't know, those actually are probably the major day parts that I think about for my day. So it seems like you're covering a lot of ground here and Nice. That's a lot of different times that I could rationalize a cookie. So I like it more to come. Perfect. All right, let's just guess right now. Let's put it on the record. Ashley and Kim, let's say in store. Once you're in retail, which do you think is going to be the top velocity item?

31:19
Ashley Fields
I think over the course of the next year it will be protein because we're all determined to get more protein in our diets and it's the most family agnostic product. So you can put this in your kid's lunchbox. You can also take it to work or go on a workout followed by focus. I think that focus has quickly become it's our second top seller. But the taste of it is just really making people be like, I just want this delicious cookie all the time. I had someone text me this morning and say like, can you make the same cookie without the functional ingredients? Cuz I think I could overdose.

31:54
Katie Emerson
And I said, the good news is,.

31:55
Ashley Fields
And Katie can speak more to this, is that you can't actually overdose on creatine or citicoline. So have as many cookies as you want. I mean, within reason, right? But I think that you started the podcast talking about this, which is the movement into brain health. And I think that once protein has its moment, we all feel well enough educated about our protein goals, how we're getting it, then it moves into a more holistic approach to wellness. So it's not only about your muscles, but also about your brain.

32:24
Daniel Scharff
Yeah, I'd be pretty interested to see also what that customer journey looks like, who maybe discovers you, let's say, because everybody is obsessed with protein right now. Great protein cookie. Let me check it out. Wait, they've got the focus cookie too. Okay, I could use that later. So let me grab that. I'm sure you Have a lot of that data from the D2C stuff already about the cohorts and the journeys and where they start and where they end up. But that'll be a really interesting one to get into. So, Katie, front and center on this package. It mentions Cognizin. Coline, what is it like for consumers to see that how many of them know what it is already versus they're like, oh, okay, that's focused. Let me go check that out and learn what it is.

33:03
Daniel Scharff
We see it front of pack for a lot of products out there and information about what Cognizin is with. Just with a lot of products that are out there that have these kind of focus and mental clarity, brain health, overall claims. What is that like for the consumer? Yeah. How many of them know about it already or what is their journey to learn more about it?

33:22
Katie Emerson
I think our goal of becoming mainstream is getting there, but it's taking a little bit more time. What's different about a branded ingredient being on front of the package is that if someone doesn't know what it is, they can go to the website. And our website is very educational. We are very transparent on our science and the research and what it is doing. So if someone's like, oh, this ingredient sounds foreign to me or I can't pronounce it so I shouldn't eat it. Right. Like, I hate that so much. But unfortunately that's just what's circulating in social media these days. So if they actually take the time to pick up their phone and Google it, they will find our website. They'll see we're in 300 random products. But also you get to learn about it.

34:06
Katie Emerson
So we are becoming a little bit more mainstream in drinks and cookies and protein bars and now toothpicks and gum. I was just mentioning that they're in chocolate truffles that are going to the outer space. Like we're trying to get the information out there. And truly what's unique about Cognizin is because we come from a Japanese company, we have these really unique timeline goals. So our new goal this year is actually for 2035 and we do 100 year goals as well. And so it's not necessarily something that we may see in our own lifetime, but we want to see in our children's lifetime. And the goals and the mission of the company is to promote health and wellness to those around us.

34:49
Katie Emerson
Yes, it is selling an ingredient, but we're selling the ingredient because of what it is giving people from a beneficial source stance. And so our education Piece is always around. Why is this good for you and why should you take it?

35:02
Daniel Scharff
Okay, and so Kim, what is your actual decision process? Like when you're considering like, okay, do I actually put the brand Cognizin on there? The ingredient is citicoline. Cognizin is a branded form of citicoline. Obviously this is a decision that you and Ashley made. What are the factors that go into that when you're deciding, Do I want to put this there? What is it actually mean about how people understand our product?

35:27
Kim Anderson
Yeah, I'll talk about it from a branding standpoint and then we'll have Ashley jump in from an ingredient standpoint. But one from a brand is kind of goes back to trust. We know that we want our customers to trust us in taste, in texture, and in the quality and efficacy of our ingredients. And to have an existing brand company like Cognizin already has done the legwork of scientific studies, of research and packaging that up for us. One, thank you for doing the legwork. Cognizin, that was very appreciative. But we want to be a brand that gives more than promises to customers when they eat our food, when they experience our brand. Because customers don't just want promises, they want proof. We know and Ashley, I both have worked in a regulated environment before. We can't just pixie dust marketing language. Right?

36:14
Kim Anderson
It's so many brands do. We are on the side of we want trust and we can prove that out with our product, with our brand and with partners that have studies attached. So it was kind of a no brainer from a brand standpoint of why wouldn't you put something trusted? And we think that Cognizin of choline will be like protein and creatine. It's come onto the scene, everyone knows it. We believe that Cognizin is next. So to be at the earlier stage with them in that journey and have people be like, oh, Fields Good. Did that four years ago. We've already earned trust in terms of ingredients in the future that we might look to.

36:48
Daniel Scharff
Okay, that makes a lot of sense, especially you just hear it from everyone right now about ingredient transparency and like, oh, that product says it does this and you can see the study on their website and that website does not exist. There you go there. It's a broken link. You're like, what is happening here? Okay, cool. Ashley, anything to add on to that?

37:08
Ashley Fields
No, I think they nailed it. It's really important that especially as a startup that you're working with partners that have legitimacy to further boost, I think consumer trust as a new product. So it's transparently, it obviously is a more expensive ingredient when it's branded. But I think it's worth every penny to be able to work with partners that have the data that they do and also that can support you in so many different ways because of their network and really wanting their portfolio of companies that use them to do really well.

37:42
Daniel Scharff
It is a big decision because every cent matters these days. When I had a beverage, I had honestly no idea how much the ingredients cost that went in it. And then it was organic and like were calculating, okay, we got the formulator to give us a formulation and then I asked my CFO to go and work up, okay, how much does this cost, let's say per can the actual ingredients? I could not have told you at that point. This just shows you how little experience I had. If like the whole thing was going to be like $0.05 or $0.50, no idea. Just like had to go and run the numbers. And when you get stuff that's better, it legitimately costs a lot more. Like organic ingredients versus non organic ingredients.

38:23
Daniel Scharff
This is how you can have some stuff out there that is very low priced at Walmart and still has a huge margin for the manufacturer versus stuff that is very high quality that's out there different places. And we're all just scrambling trying to figure out how to be profitable on those ingredients. So it's definitely a real choice to make and which ingredients you want to make sure that the things that are really core to what you're trying to get across and which things are worth paying for that way. And I worked at a company years ago called Just Egg and were selling into food service, into restaurants and that was the thing we wanted the most is like when you put this on your menu, please say that it's just egg, not like plant based egg ingredient or whatever. And.

39:05
Daniel Scharff
Cause that would mean so much for us. And I'm sure that Cognizin loves that. Right? Because they obviously have made a huge investment in all of the testing and formulation and all of that. So obviously they're pretty happy when you're making that choice as well.

39:18
Katie Emerson
I was going to say every time I see anyone that has a Cognizin containing product, like Maria Schreifer was just on Good Morning America, I think, talking about the protein bars and I'm like, stay Cognizin. And then when she doesn't, I'm just like, oh man, I get so bummed. Out. But no, but like one to your point, Daniel, is like, I think because we recognize it's an expensive ingredient. Like, we know and we're always trying to work around ways to make it work for the partnership because that's what we truly value. And something to reassure both Ashley and Kim, as you're talking about product launches and like expanding, you've got the three cookies, but I know you're already brainstorming and testing new cookies and which directions can you go?

40:00
Katie Emerson
My favorite thing to tell partners is like we're doing the same thing on the science level. Like, we're exploring new avenues and endpoints for you, for the product. So you can say, oh, we already have this ingredient. What else can we say? Because that ingredient does various things for us. So it's a nice give and take.

40:18
Daniel Scharff
I feel like Katie, what are all the reasons that somebody would pay for a branded ingredient? What are all the advantages that Cognizin branded citicoline would have in addition? Because we've talked about a couple of them, like all of the research that comes about and like the quality of the ingredient. But what are all the things that you're typically helping the brands understand when they're making that decision?

40:39
Katie Emerson
Kim totally nailed it. Trust. It's something when people go to choose between what tissue paper or toilet paper they get right, it's something that they've relied on to be of good quality. It's the reason sometimes you grab Tylenol versus acetaminophen. It's the same thing. One's generic, one's branded. And I've said this several times interviews before, is like when you have a headache, you may not say, can I have a leave? Or an inset. Sometimes I just say, do you have a Tylenol? And I don't necessarily mean Tylenol. I just mean I have a headache and I need some sort of medication to help me with it. But they have done such a good job of instilling that trust and that quality in that ingredient that's just how my brain is wired.

41:20
Katie Emerson
And I feel like that's kind of where we're trying to go with branded ingredients is just when someone talks about brain health, like you said, Kim, it's a no brainer. Like, obviously Cognizin citicoline is going to get you there because we have over 25 human clinical studies and I just wrapped up another study. We're planning another study starting next week. Like, we're already talking about what to do five years from now. So it's like we're not a generic ingredient that goes, here's your one study, here's your claims. Good luck. We really love to partner and we love to do co marketing and co branding together because your success is our success. And so we want to see this through from start to finish with you. And I think that's something you just don't get from a generic company.

42:00
Daniel Scharff
All right, very well said. Okay, as we wrap up here, I would love just to let everybody know, first of all, field's good. How can everybody follow along and get their hands on some cookies?

42:13
Ashley Fields
Great question, Daniel. We are currently available for sale on our D2C site. So at Fieldsgood Co, we are actively sharing our journey, the good, the bad, the ugly, on our social channels, on Instagram and TikTok. So eeldsgood co. And we are really excited to continue to be part of the startup CPG community. I can't thank you enough for two founders who really had no idea about what to do. I think that the wealth of information that you and your team and everyone that's part of this community has provided is so incredible. So thank you so much.

42:51
Daniel Scharff
Thank you. I really appreciate that. And hopefully this in turn will help a lot of other founders out there. All right, perfect. And Katie, just coming back to you. What's a great way for anybody interested to learn about Cognizin and everything that Kiyo Hakou USA has to offer?

43:07
Katie Emerson
Our website. We're revamping it right now where I'm constantly changing and adding and trying to just keep it fresh and innovative. So as we continue to evolve, our website and our social media pages are going to evolve. So Cognizin or Kyowa Hakko USA. Cognizin's easier. Go directly to that ingredient if that's what you want to learn about. Or just reach out to me or anyone from the team. Like, we love having engagement and talking about questions. I'm such a nerd. I love talking about science. Like, I have people that run into me and they just ask me random questions and I could talk to you forever. Like, you don't feel like, shut me up. But yeah.

43:41
Daniel Scharff
All right, Katie, just to put you right on the spot, top opportunities you think out there for brain health focused related products. Like, oh, like, because you work at Cognizin, I know you think about this stuff all the time. Like one or two ideas. If someone is just twiddling their thumbs out there thinking, what kind of a product could I launch? I want to do the founder journey. What could I Figure out how to use Cognizin. What's a cool product format you haven't seen it in? Or one that's just sitting out there waiting for someone to crush.

44:07
Katie Emerson
I had to be careful not to give away the conversations I've been having because I.

44:10
Daniel Scharff
Right.

44:10
Katie Emerson
Just got back from the International Society of Sports Nutrition where I was talking with people about formulating. They're like, what would you do? And I was like, I would do this. And now they're doing it. So, like, I'm like, can't give that away.

44:21
Daniel Scharff
Maybe they have to get the one one conversation with you to get the good stuff.

44:24
Katie Emerson
I mean, like I said, it's in random applications like toothpicks. Like, I feel like everyone's doing something. I think maybe a gum is new. I don't think we have a gum. I think we have a mint.

44:35
Ashley Fields
Can you put it in wine?

44:36
Katie Emerson
Oh, girl, would I not be the happiest person in the entire world? Why not? I mean, why not?

44:42
Ashley Fields
Anyway, if you want to formulate, I'm happy to help.

44:45
Katie Emerson
Like a functional wine. Yeah, that sounds great to me.

44:48
Daniel Scharff
We could do like instead of four Loco, four Foco, four Foca. Let's go.

44:54
Katie Emerson
Okay.

44:54
Kim Anderson
Brand.

44:55
Daniel Scharff
Hey, let's go.

44:57
Ashley Fields
Oh, let's make sure we get that URL.

44:59
Katie Emerson
It was just created right here.

45:01
Daniel Scharff
There we go. No, it's that easy, people. All right, all right. Thank you everybody. What a good time. Can't wait to get my hands on some more. Fields Good cookies. Thank you all so much. I really enjoyed it.

45:11
Kim Anderson
Likewise.

45:12
Katie Emerson
Thank you, thank you.

45:17
Daniel Scharff
Well, my friends, we've now arrived together at the end of another episode of the Startup CPG podcast, the top globally ranked podcast in CPG. As you may know, we're not just a podcast.

45:27
Katie Emerson
We're complete.

45:27
Daniel Scharff
A community of brands and experts. And you should join. You can sign up @startupcpg.com you'll then get an invite to our online Slack community. You're going to hear about amazing events near you, all of our special opportunities to get you in front of buyers, investors, brands and more. It's a free community. So what are you waiting for? I will see you there or on our next episode. Bye. Bye.