The Startup CPG Podcast

Cason Crane
I was always very reluctant to go into the RTD space because it is very crowded for cold brew. It's also very high velocity and it's a big chunk of the cold brew market. The convenience factor of a ready to drink can is very high and consumers like that. What changed my mind was, to be honest, were having a really tough time earlier this year, even though things were going great because, as I said, we still weren't profitable. It's a very challenging fundraising climate and I felt like I needed to do something to show the vision of Explore Cold Brew being a caffeine conscious cold brew company doing something different. And I'd be like, we're the only decaf cold brew option. And not to mention half caf and extra like we have a unique selection of caffeine levels. Also it's a concentrate.

01:02
Cason Crane
Also there's this and it wasn't that I was necessarily being overly complicated. There's something just simpler about a ready to drink can. Here it is. Cold brew coffee, straight up, ready to drink cold brew coffee, decaf, half caff, full caff boom. It's just that simple.

01:21
Grace Kennedy
Hello everyone and welcome back to the Startup CPG podcast. This is Grace and today I am joined by Kacen Crane, the founder of Explorer Cold Brew. Explorer Cold Brew offers a range of premium cold brew coffee and chai products in a unique selection of caffeine levels. Kaysen has now been running Explorer for four years and he is not shy about sharing all of the highs and lows that have come along the way. This episode is a must listen for any emerging brand looking to figure out what it takes to make it past those first few years and beyond. I hope you enjoy this episode and as always, let me know what you think.

02:03
Speaker 3
Hey friends, your reviews helped us become a top 0.5% world podcast. I wanted to shout out some of the reviews here. Gralicious says the podcast has given him MBA level insights into every aspect of cpg. Daniel from Front Page Retail says it helps him understand brand challenges and their most pressing needs. Boba Nutrition said it's great for anybody starting their journey or getting to the next level. Thanks so much guys. If you can rate us, go to ratethispodcast.com startupcpg thank you.

02:33
Grace Kennedy
Hello everyone, this is Grace and today I'm so excited to be joined by Kacen Crane, the founder of Explorer Cold Brew. So welcome to the show. Kacen. I'd love for you to introduce yourself.

02:46
Cason Crane
Thanks Grace.

02:46
Grace Kennedy
And Explore to our listeners.

02:49
Cason Crane
Amazing. Well, first of all, thank you so much for Having me on. I'm a big fan of Startup cpg. Startup cpg. I've been a member from like the inception of my business and particularly as someone who started his business during COVID It's been an invaluable resource in the community. Much needed source of those two things. I mean this crazy founder journey. So thank you for having me on and thank you to the broader Startup CPG team and community for everything you all do. As you mentioned, I'm Kacen Crane. I'm the founder of Explorer Cold Brew. And prior to starting Explorer Cold Brew I have had done some everything from very not crazy stuff like working as a management consultant at Bain and some crazy stuff like climbing Mount Everest and the highest mountain on each continent. So Everest, it's called the seven Summits.

03:37
Cason Crane
I also have appeared on a reality TV show called Race to Survive Alaska, which I competed on with my sister in season one and it's streaming on Peacock so you can watch that. And in my spare time I do Ironman triathlons and other endurance sports. I hang out with my husband Francis and our dog Timmy. And I also produce theater. I produce Broadway and West End theater here in New York and in London. But my main job is owning and growing Explorer Cold Brew. And I started the business four years ago, just very briefly. Our unique angle in coffee, which is a big and incredible industry, is that we are a caffeine conscious cold brew company. So we have four different caffeine levels. I'm drinking our classic right now, but I almost almost had a half calf.

04:30
Cason Crane
I was like, oh, it's 1:55pm right now when we're recording this. I was like, okay, it's getting to my half calf afternoon. But you know what, I just thought why not be super energetic during our chat. But we have four different caffeine levels ranging from 99.9% caffeine free all the way to 300 milligrams per serving. We have both multi serve concentrates. Look, I have behind me. Those are our flavor syrups as well. And we also have brand new ready to drink cans in multiple caffeine levels. So you can get your RTDs, you can get your concentrates and there's more in the pipeline. So it's all organic, fair trade. Check us out if you love coffee, if you're a decaf drinker, we are the cold brew for you. But I'm gonna stop talking so we can chit chat.

05:12
Grace Kennedy
Yes, I love it. And you are a very busy person and it makes sense that you would run a cold brew company because you need that, you know, steady supply of caffeine for all of your adventures and activities and jobs and many things. And I remember we first met at, I think, Expo west last year, and we kept coming over to your booth. You were in the sort of CBG section, and we kept coming over saying, can we have more coffee? Can we have more coffee? And, you know, you drink yours black, which I respect, but I need a little milk. And then you also have your delicious little, you know, syrup little additions, which are. We'll get into as well. But another thing I remember from Expo was you were. The day after Expo, weren't you doing like a marathon or something?

06:00
Cason Crane
Yes, I did the LA marathon the day after Expo west, which was. I mean, it was. I did fine, but I did not realize how standing for four days straight, basically the whole day. And then of course, going to the evening events where you're standing and mingling, there's no sitting. It's either you're asleep, horizontal, or you're standing. Yes, that's actually really hard on your legs. Like, I, I walked. I came into the LA marathon the day after Expo and like, my Achilles were super tight, of all places, my Achilles. And my, like, my hips started out quite sore. So I did it, but it was not my pr.

06:41
Grace Kennedy
Just fun to imagine. Yeah, I can't imagine it would be your pr that would be truly shocking if you did all of Expo and then also PR at a marathon.

06:52
Cason Crane
I.

06:52
Grace Kennedy
That would be like a whole another level. But yes, you both make delicious coffee and are apparently extremely fit. But I'd love to hear a little bit more about why you decided to create this brand outside of, obviously that you're, you know, a cold brew drinker yourself. Why did you say, I want to actually create something and put it in the market?

07:14
Cason Crane
So, you know, I always had thought it would be really cool to create a product, I think. I mean, I would guess that everyone listening to this podcast either has had or has either recognizes they have had that thought or has had the thought, but might not. Might not recognize it yet, because that is such a. It's so alluring, the idea of bringing something into the world, your baby that's not a baby, and being able to shape it and mold it. And of course, the highs and lows are sort of part of the appeal. You know, it's not going to be a straight lineup, of course, like, you want it to go up to the right over time. And so the genesis of Explorer for me it wasn't actually starting Explorer Cold Brew. I was originally starting.

08:07
Cason Crane
Well, I was brainstorming different ideas because it was early Covid. I was stuck in my apartment and all of those outdoorsy things that I mentioned, the Ironmans, the ultramarathons, the outdoorsy stuff, I couldn't do it. I was stuck in my 700 square foot apartment. And yeah, so what could I do? And the answer to that question was brainstorm product ideas. And food and beverage is particularly appealing. I think now that I've started a beverage brand, I would encourage aspiring entrepreneurs to cast a wide net in terms of the ideas that they're thinking about. Because food and beverage is challenging in part because I think a lot of people naturally think of themselves as experts. You start out, all of us start out as some level of expert in food and beverage because we consume it every day.

09:01
Cason Crane
We go to the grocery store every week. We are already in the industry, whether we like it or not. I mean, as a consumer or maybe we work in the industry. So it can be very appealing, but that also makes it very competitive. So I would say don't. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from, you know, from food, beverage, but definitely think about other verticals or industries as well. And for me, the coffee was actually what I was drinking while brainstorming. Cold brew was my fix. I'd gotten hooked on it through my husband. And originally I was very. I was very balanced in my caffeine consumption. But then as were quarantined, I just kept drinking more and more later and later, to the point where truly I'd be thrashing around in bed, not just keeping myself up all night, but also my husband.

10:02
Cason Crane
So my husband came to me, then boyfriend, now husband, and said, kacen, I swear to God, you have to switch to decaf. Like, no more of this 4pm Cold brew. Like, I'm cutting you off. And I. This was my exact next move. I went to Amazon and searched decaf cold brew because, you know, like a good millennial, or I'm a millennial, but millennials and Gen Z, were cold coffee drinkers. And I love the smoothness of cold brew. It's low acid, all these things. It's very drinkable. So I go. And it didn't exist. I got results, as you always will on Amazon. But I was like, wait, these are all regular. Like, these aren't decaf. I literally searched decaf cold brew, and it just gave me regular cold brew. And I went, page one, page Two page.

10:47
Cason Crane
I'm like, oh my God, there is no decaf cold brew. How does this not exist? Like, there's a big chunk of the market. The estimates that I then quickly Googled estimated around 10%. That's gone up since then. Now the estimates are 10 to 20% of coffee cups consumed or decaf. Decaf includes half caf and other lower caffeinated options. So I was like, okay, this is. I just. I need this. I need this for myself. I need this. And I immediately then pivoted to just focusing on building what became exploriculture.

11:20
Grace Kennedy
Wow. Yeah, I. I think I had a very similar experience during COVID because also were just at home doing nothing. I think I drank like a whole French press by myself, you know, every day. And I was just like, why can't I fall asleep? Like there's a reason.

11:34
Cason Crane
Exactly.

11:34
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. And I think cold brew, specifically, like you said, it's really delicious. But. And this may be just a myth, but I feel like it's more caffeinated or it's more.

11:42
Cason Crane
Not a myth.

11:43
Grace Kennedy
It is not a myth.

11:44
Cason Crane
It's 100% more caffeinated. That's about double the caffeine of a regular hot coffee.

11:49
Grace Kennedy
Yes. Okay, that makes sense. So then I often don't really go for cold brew because I'm like scared that it's going to be so incredibly caffeinated. So it makes sense that you would want to offer that in these half calf or decaf options and still retain that really delicious flavor and like mouthfeel that often. If like other. You get a decaf coffee at like a diner and you're like, why is.

12:09
Cason Crane
This water decaf has a bad rep and it deserves it. We're trying to change that. It's gotten a lot better. But historically that like the bad reputation is deserved.

12:23
Grace Kennedy
Yes. Yeah.

12:25
Cason Crane
Which is great for us because people try our decaf and they're like, oh my God, this is amazing. I'm hooked.

12:29
Grace Kennedy
Yes. So I'm curious, once you had the idea, where did you start in terms of actually creating this brand? It sounds like you weren't really coming from the industry. So how did you get started?

12:44
Cason Crane
So, gosh, it was its own crazy learning experience. I think the first thing that I did, particularly as an extroverted person, is I talked to people and I did know some people who had gone into. Even though I didn't work in the CPG industry, I knew some people that had worked there or had connections. So I quickly tried to get. Just get some background knowledge there Simultaneously, I was working on product development, cold brewing, testing recipes in my own kitchen, and then also finding a professional cold brewing partner that I then quickly found. And then simultaneously it was. I was doing all these things in parallel. I was then looking for, I mean, one of the great things when you and I. And I mean, to be clear, this is a silver lining from what was a really challenging period.

13:27
Cason Crane
But one of the things that silver linings for me was I reached out to some world renowned coffee experts through Instagram. Like I DM'd them on Instagram and they were very keen to work with me. So I worked, you know, obviously, like I compensated them for helping me craft this incredible product. And it was sort of mutually beneficial because their cafes or their coffee, their. Everyone was really struggling to find a way through this tough period. And so we got to create something really special with these amazing coffee tastemakers. So I was doing a bunch of things in parallel, but I will say it was more challenging. I think I kept feeling like I was having to. Even though I'm.

14:11
Cason Crane
There's so many people who have taken this path before me, there wasn't at that beginning stage, like a blueprint that I was supposed to follow. And so I was. It was discovering communities like Star CPG that were very helpful at trying to figure out what is the next step. Like, what am I not thinking of? Things that I thought as an outsider that were super important and stressful actually were not. For example, FDA label compliance is important. Don't get me wrong. You want to be compliant, we are compliant. But I paid a lot of money to a FDA compliance expert to like review my labels, doubting my own ability to read the instructions. And ultimately I paid thousands of dollars to an FDA compliance expert to tell me that, yes, I had read the guidelines correctly.

15:07
Cason Crane
And it's like little things like that I was like, oh my God. And then I was like, okay, where do I get approval? Like, how do I submit this to the FDA to get my labels approved? And then I discovered that it actually doesn't work that way and that you only they will contact you if you are not compliant. And then, you know, but there were all these things, I was like, oh my gosh, there must be this crazy process of like having the government approve this label when actually that's not how it works. So there were things I thought would be really challenging that ended up being not. And then other things that were way more challenging than I bargained for.

15:44
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. What were some of the things on the flip side of the FDA compliance that were, like, more challenging than you expected them to be.

15:52
Cason Crane
So more challenging than I expected broadly. And this is going to be sound so cliche customer acquisition. I think as somebody who I was overly optimistic. Now, granted, this was 2020, and it was right at the beginning of when things started to fall apart in terms of E commerce customer acquisition. I was overly optimistic about how easy it would be to affordably acquire customers. But beyond that, and this is actually a piece of advice that I would pass along to an entrepreneur or founder who has not yet launched their product. I would say whatever expectations you have for your network of friends, family, people in your circle, your Instagram followers, your business, whatever expectation you have of how many of them will purchase your product, cut it in half or more, cut it 75%.

16:51
Cason Crane
Not because, like, people will, but people have stuff going on in their lives. And I think I was sort of overly naively optimistic that people are going to, like, all my friends are going to buy this product. And to be clear, many did. I don't want to. If anyone, if any of my friends are out there listening, I am so grateful. But for a while, particularly in those first six months, I could tell you, if you named a friend of mine, I could tell you whether they bought my product or not. Because it mattered a lot to me. And it wasn't like I was just, like, waiting for them to come. I was emailing, I was posting. I poured my heart and soul into this product and brought it to market.

17:30
Cason Crane
And I thought, you know, surely, like, I don't know, spend 20 bucks to try this thing that, you know, if my friend case and has spent more than half a year doing, like, also, especially during COVID when, like, there wasn't that much going on.

17:45
Grace Kennedy
Yeah.

17:46
Cason Crane
And the point is, again, it's not to disparage anyone who didn't. It's just to say I had to. I realized the hard way people have got a lot going on. And that was at the time, a big emotional setback for me that it took me time to recalibrate my perspective. And I would urge people, again, it's not about whether they care. Everyone cares. Just they've got a lot going on. So don't expect. Yeah, they're busy. They're busy.

18:17
Grace Kennedy
And how are you approaching customer acquisition now that you have been in business for a couple years and, you know, you're not just relying on these family and friends anymore and you're looking to those customers that, you know, have never met you or heard of you, how are you approaching Customer acquisition these days.

18:33
Cason Crane
So I think brand matters a lot. We had a strong enough brand when we first launched. We improved our visual identity substantially two years ago. So about halfway through the four years we've been around. Four years almost to the day, by the way. We launched a couple days ago. Four years ago. So happy birthday to us. Yay. We're four years old. Crazy. So brand matters a lot. I think we did a good job at the beginning of developing a strong founder centric brand. I was very involved. I responded to every single customer inquiry, customer service, email, dm, et cetera. And so because we had fewer customers, I was very visibly the face of it and the one they were interacting with. It created a tight knit small business that's possible. You know, they say, like do things that don't scale, that is not scalable.

19:28
Cason Crane
Over time, we did other things to improve our position, you know, improve our ability to acquire and retain customers. So we improved our visual identity, which does matter. It matters more than I realized at the beginning. We also have done partnerships with both coffee experts, also with LGBT celebrities, with pop stars like Troye Sivan to reinforce the premium quality of the brand and the products. So select partnerships not designed to drive sales. So I would. If you're looking at, you know, if you're potentially, if you're listening to this and you're thinking of partnering with a celebrity to drive like $roi, direct ROI from a sales perspective, I'm very. I would be skeptical. I would urge you to reconsider. I think there's other reasons to do it.

20:18
Cason Crane
And so for us, it was about, you know, really deeply establishing the brand as an LGBT brand and also as a premium product in the market. And then on the tactical side, in terms of, you know, what we're doing to actually drive eyeballs and drive taste buds to our product, you know, we did pivot about a year and a half ago to grocery. So we do have an online business that has remained relatively, that's remained sort of stable and a. It has become more of a supplemental channel to our primary focus now, which is grocery. So in grocery, it's doing a ton of demos. We love demos. We love getting people to try the product. I think that's really effective.

21:00
Cason Crane
And then also online rebates, we've become a big user of some online coupon and rebate programs for people to buy in store and then get a rebate after the fact online. And then that combined with our online, you know, our. We do advertise on meta still. We advertise on Google, but we're doing much less of that than we used to. So it's all of the above approach. There's not some. If anyone is on your podcast or on another podcast or on Twitter x saying here's the hack to customer acquisition, run the other direction. That is a snake oil salesman. And the reality is it is hard. There is no. I wish somebody had just said this to me a couple years ago. There is no magical solution. If you're seeing some incredible numbers online, honestly, they're probably fake.

21:48
Cason Crane
Like truly, there's a whole, you know, what makes people money in today's day and age? It's selling courses and selling, you know, and so what are they incentivized to do? They're incentivized to make you feel like you're missing out, like you're having a tough time. It's because you haven't figured out and they can teach it to you. Nobody has the answer. Everyone is struggling. If that weren't the case, by the way, all of these publicly traded e commerce focused businesses would be doing a whole lot better than they are, to be honest. Right. They have a lot of resources, they've been around, they've got a lot of money invested in them. You would think that they would have figured out. So my advice is be very cautious about what you read and see online. And you've got to do a little bit of everything.

22:33
Cason Crane
Be super careful from the get go, not careful, super thoughtful about your unit economics. Because if your product does not have a lot of room built in to those unit economics for customer acquisition cost and or other things that will inevitably squeeze the margin, you gotta go back to the drawing board and it's easy to do that sooner rather than later.

22:56
Grace Kennedy
That's so true and I think it's so helpful to hear that, you know, there is no magic solution to any of this and everybody's, you know, like, game plan of sorts is going to be a little bit different. And so I'm curious, thinking a little bit about your pivot. You know, I guess you said about a year and a half ago to retail, what has been your approach? I know you've done trade shows, I know you're in quite a lot of retailers from what I understand on your website. So what's been your approach over this last year and a half to both getting into retail and then also like you said, staying in retail and making sure people buy the product.

23:34
Cason Crane
So I think there's two. You just mentioned the two I think of retail as having two hurdles. One, getting on the shelf and two, selling off the shelf. And the first one, in some ways can be easier than the second. Or at least for us, it was easier. We started with trade shows, and I think I'm a very passionate founder. Use whatever you've got. In our case, I think passion goes a long way. So if you are a passionate founder and you're listening, use that. Go to trade shows because you'll do better in person than you will just through emailing or on Zoom. So people who didn't respond to our emails or honestly, people who had rejected us. Okay, I will give you a real example. Whole Foods Market rejected us when we submitted.

24:26
Cason Crane
I then met our buyer in person, who's amazing, really wonderful person, and now we're launching in Whole Foods nationwide. So just because you get a rejection doesn't mean, I mean, there's a lot of factors that are at play here, but play to your strengths. And so again, if one of your strengths is passionate team or there's something about it that really lends itself to in person. Do the trade show circuit. Now that we're in about. We're in some incredible accounts now. The fresh market, fresh time. Whole Foods launching in December, sprouts regionally launching next month. Some amazing accounts, plus a bunch of incredible independents across the country. Now I'm going to go to fewer trade shows because the focus is now on the second hurdle, which is getting, you know, driving that velocity. And that's where I'll, you know, reiterate the.

25:16
Cason Crane
What we have found works best for us is a combo of demos and online rebates. I think the, yeah, those are the things that were, that are working best for us. You know, I'll update you later if other things start to work well. But those are our best options.

25:32
Grace Kennedy
And I can speak personally as a consumer. I have used those online rebates when they've been offered to me by brands because it's like, why not? Especially if it's a product I already know. I like, I'm even more incentivized. I'm like, oh, I'm going to go buy extra because of this, you know, thing. And it's, I think, a really useful way to drive that velocity. And then I can also say I've gone back and bought it again, even without the online rebate. So I do, I can just testify to that as a, you know, just a regular customer. It works well.

26:04
Cason Crane
And even though I didn't Have a career in cpg. Before starting Explorer when I was a consultant at Bain, one of the projects I worked on was at a company that made paper coupons and that company has since gone under. And you know, I think we think of E commerce as being around. It's a pretty recent industry and the combined omnichannel E commerce, grocery retail approach is still evolving. And I really think that the online coupons are. Those are the future of coupons as an industry. And that has always been like. Coupons have always been a really big industry. We love coupons. I love coupons. And I think that online rebate structure is. It's a win for everyone.

26:53
Cason Crane
People get to try new things, they get a reward for being an early adopter with the coupon and then it drives awareness trial and then hopefully repeat purchase.

27:03
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. So how are you gearing up for these big launches, like nationwide, at Whole Foods Sprouts, regionally, obviously a lot of big retailers. How are you going to gearing up? Obviously some of these things you've mentioned, but anything else you're doing to sort of just prepare mentally, physically, anything you're.

27:20
Cason Crane
Doing, gosh, I'm doing a. Yeah, it sort of feels like the wheels are falling off the wagon because so much is happening at the same time. That's a very exciting feeling. It is a real challenge. We've got a very lean team. I have an amazing team of part time folks, fractional folks, whether it's fractional retail sales lead, fractional graphic design, jack of all trades, fractional operations manager. But there are no full time people other than me. So that's a challenge and can feel overwhelming at times. But I think the biggest thing I'm thinking about is actually not. It's not specifically Whole Foods Market. And I mean obviously that's top of mind and we need to do well in Whole Foods. But the broader thought is we're four years in now.

28:09
Cason Crane
How do we take what has been an unprofitable business and make it profitable in the next six to nine months? And I believe the key is again taking these accounts that we're in and we should be now at the scale where profitability is possible. In theory, you can always say we're too small subscale, we'll eventually get there, we'll eventually move, but we're not the point where if I cannot in the next year get Explore Colbert profitability, it's not that it won't be around. Like maybe there's a way to keep it going, but I Just it needs to be profitable. I need to find, you know, we need to find a sustainable path to growth. I believe it exists. But let's talk in a year. Hopefully in a year, my plan has succeeded.

28:59
Grace Kennedy
And what do you see that path looking like?

29:02
Cason Crane
Well, for us, we are in the final stages of a partnership that will. That I'm very excited. That has not been announced or discussed. So I can't give too many details because we're, you know, it's not. The final documents have not been signed yet. But I think broadly, because I can't answer that in as much detail as I would like to.

29:21
Grace Kennedy
Yeah.

29:22
Cason Crane
What I would encourage, you know, we talked, I gave advice for the early, early stage founder or aspiring founder types. But my advice for the folks who are more in the position that I'm in. My peers that have been around for a year or two or three or four and are still facing some really big challenges. I mean, grocery might be slightly better than E. Com in certain ways, but it's not without major challenges and obstacles for emerging brands. KE and unified do not make it easy. And you know, or grocery store, I mean, like free fill for us, free fill is insanely expensive. We've got a 12 pack of concentrates. Free fill ends up one case ends up being like 120 bucks anyway, so very expensive.

30:07
Cason Crane
But my advice would be go out and see if it makes sense to partner with another brand. It's better. Like, I think there should be more earlier stage M and A or really like the M of M and A. Whether it's a strategic partnership, merging to similar brands or adjacent brands, or having an acquisition or a slightly larger one, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. And I think, honestly, I don't know whether it's founder ego or I don't know what it is, but I feel like it should happen more often. I've definitely been hearing a little bit more of that in the last year, like by necessity. But I would say even if it's not strictly necessary, like, scale does matter. And if you can get there more quickly or achieve synergies or economies of scale pretty instantaneously through a partnership like that.

31:01
Cason Crane
Why not?

31:03
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, I think that's great advice for people to consider because it's not. You're right, it's not often talked about. And honestly, might be the first time I'm talking to a founder about it, like on this podcast. And I think it's really practical. And you know, sometimes I think you're right. We can get so in the weeds of like this is our baby and this is, you know, our thing. But they, you know, isn't there some saying about, you know, five years in is a good benchmark of like whether or not your business can survive. And so I think it's a good time to be thinking really practically about how much or how little you're going to be able to scale. And I'm thinking about another thing that you're. That's new ish for you guys.

31:41
Grace Kennedy
I don't know exactly when you released it, but what made you decide to add the like RTD canned cold brews which are also delicious. But I'm just curious about, you know, why you decided to add those in.

31:53
Cason Crane
So I was very resistant to. We started with concentrates, multi serve concentrates mostly in 32 ounce bottles. I was always very reluctant to go into the RTD space because it is very crowded for cold brew. That said, it's also very high velocity and it's a big chunk of the culprit market. The convenience factor of a ready to drink can is very high and consumers like that. What changed my mind was the business. You know, to be honest, were having a really tough time earlier this year even though things were going great because as I said, we still weren't profitable. It's a very challenging fundraising climate and I felt like I needed to do something to show the vision of Explore cold Brew being a caffeine conscious cold brew company doing something different. I would go and it was crazy.

32:52
Cason Crane
I'd have a conversation, I'd give the elevator pitch, focused again on the caffeine levels and would hear from some people, not everyone thankfully. But I Kate, you know, I hear the like but how are you different? And I'd be like we're the only decaf cold brew option. And not to mention half caf and extra like we have a unique selection of caffeine levels. But it still people were getting lost in the well, okay, also it's a concentrate. Also there's this and it wasn't that I was necessarily being overly complicated. There's something just simpler about a ready to drink can. Here it is, Cold brew coffee, straight up, ready to drink cold brew coffee, decaf, half caf, full calf boom. It's just that simple. And so I brought it to market actually very quickly. I mean it's easy because we already source amazing beans.

33:44
Cason Crane
We already, we already have a lot in place. And I did a run, the production run at the end of May, beginning of June, pitched it at the bevnet New Beverage Showdown. In June, were a finalist at the Bevnet New Beverage Showdown. And now we've gotten amazing adoption again. The cans will be regional and Sprouts in November like it like very rapid adoption from our existing partners and then from some new ones like sprouts. And what I'm loving seeing is the, you know, we've got some of our stores where we've got the concentrates and the ready drink cans and they're supporting each other because the barrier to entry buying a $4 can of cold brew, a single serve ready to drink can is much lower than buying a 1499 bottle of concentrate, even though it makes 10 servings.

34:34
Cason Crane
So it's a much cheaper price per serving. So having that option to try it and then go back next time be like, oh, great, now I can have my favorite cold brew at the house in concentrate form. That's a really great option to have for consumers. So, yeah, I'm sold on it. I've been won over and I'm very lucky, to be honest, that we remain the only caffeine conscious cold brew company because it is a unique point of differentiation across all of our formats.

34:59
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. And there are so many, I feel like cold brew companies that offer the like triple espresso, you know, 18 times as much caffeine. Like just the other week in the park, I was getting passed out like, you know, some cold brews thing that was literally like quadruple espresso. And I was like, I can't drink that. I will have a heart attack. So I think you're exactly correct. There's so many brands kind of going the opposite direction, which is like more caffeine, more this, and there are a lot of people who are eager for less caffeine. And I know our social media manager, Kiki, she doesn't really drink caffeine, but she loves coffee, so, you know, she likes to have the decaf or have those.

35:40
Cason Crane
Caffeine conscious, I hear that all the time. And I'll hear from people. I'm sure I'm the only one who's saying this, but I've been craving a decaf and I'm like, no, you're like the 12th person who's told me that today. And to be clear, I understand why. Other coffee. There's this convergence recently of energy and coffee and there's a huge, I mean, there's a big coffee market already and there's a big energy drink market, and right now they're sort of in A battle like in some cases I'll hear like 7:11 ready to drink cold brew is down 30%. And I'm like, let me guess, your energy drink consumption is up 30% because people who are going to grab the cold brew are grabbing the Celsius or vice versa. So there's this dynamic right now and that's where people's eyes are.

36:28
Cason Crane
They're, they're recognizing that 80 plus percent of the market is caffeinated and they're saying, well we're going to, we want that big chunk. And I'm saying, you know what, 10 to 20% is still a really big chunk of the $90 billion coffee industry. So I'm going to focus on the caffeine conscious side. And look, even if in the long run explore doesn't work out, I think being a part of this caffeine conscious movement, being an early leader in the caffeine conscious movement will always be very special to me. And I really do believe that like the non alcoholic, the, you know, the NA and the low ABV movement, I think there's an increasing desire for those caffeine conscious half caf decaf options.

37:17
Cason Crane
And I'm really proud of the work we've done Explorer to make to bring that mainstream to for many of our customers be the first decaf cold brew they've ever been able to buy, they've ever been able to drink. And, and I'm extremely proud of that.

37:30
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, I love that. And you already answered one of the questions I always ask which was what are you most proud of? And that's the answer. And anecdotally as well, thinking of energy drinks, I've had a Celsius once in my life on a long car ride home. I was driving by myself eight hours and I think I had it at like noon and I didn't sleep that night. Like I could not sleep. And you know, everybody's body is different and I turns out I cannot have Celsius. And even though it did help me with my drive, but you know, no shade to Celsius, some people love it, but a lot of people love it.

38:00
Cason Crane
It's done really well.

38:01
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, but I am one of those maybe 10 to 20% who can't, you know, handle quite as much caffeine as I could in my youth perhaps.

38:10
Cason Crane
Well, we are the perfect option for you then. Our seeker half calf is great.

38:15
Grace Kennedy
That is the perfect option for me. Exactly. And once you're in Whole Foods and Sprouts actually I'll be showing up so yeah, I'll be coming through with those online rebates. So we're nearing sort of the end of our time chatting and I'd love to hear just what the Startup CPG community can do to support Explorer and how they can support Explorer.

38:37
Cason Crane
Well, you know, I said at the beginning, and I want to reiterate, the Startup CPG community has been so valuable, I mean, for literally four years now. I think it's valuable already in a number of ways. Being a resource, a proactive resource, as in, you know, people posting proactively, you know, the Startup CPG team, providing opportunities, providing resources or insights, but then also as a resource in a different way, as a reactive resource. If I have a question or a concern or an issue, I'm like, oh my gosh, like I just got hit with $40,000 of chargebacks from K here Unify and then asking questions. So both proactive and reactive. And I'm not going to lie, like it is really hard. The odds are stacked against you out there in the industry still for emerging brands.

39:24
Cason Crane
And I think I'm very grateful to have been a part of, as you said, the Expo Startup CPG Expo West Group. That's the sort of opportunity that was off the table for us because it was just too expensive. And to get the opportunity to get a more recently priced opportunity and to be a part of that. Not just that, but also doesn't have special access to buyers and meetings. And increasingly Stirrup CPG is developing its own reputation for helping shepherd amazing brands through these tough early stages. So I mean, my view is it's not what can Startup CPG do more of, it's more to the founders out there. I hope if you're listening to this podcast, you're already familiar with Startup cpg, but just make sure you're utilizing the resources that are available.

40:11
Cason Crane
And I have found grace, that the entire team is just really helpful. Like if, you know, sometimes look like there was a time with one of the shows weren't eligible for the Startup CPG group, but I still was able to work with the team to get access to some special opportunities. Like everyone's just so willing to help and I really appreciate that. So don't be afraid to slack the folks, email the folks, whatever it may be. And ultimately it can feel really isolating being a founder or being in this industry even if you're not a founder. And there are people out there who are really motivated and passionate about helping folks in our position.

40:50
Grace Kennedy
So that's my, that's so sweet And I swear I didn't pay him to say that, but that's very kind and we're so glad that the community has been so useful to you and Explorer. So final question is just where can people learn more and how can people follow along on Explorer's journey?

41:08
Cason Crane
So definitely you can buy Explore on our website, explore colber.com and on Amazon. You can also go to our website to find out where we are in store. We love in store purchases now. Really, you know, of course try to make sure that we have that strong velocity and always appreciate if there's a void on the shelf, let me know so that we can, you know, follow up and make sure that all of our retail partners are stocking our product as much as they should be in terms of following the journey. Instagram is probably the best place at Explore. Cold brew. And yeah, some exciting news in the coming two months. One, two, three months. So lots of exciting things in the pipeline relevant to both our retail launches, our products and also to our.

41:50
Cason Crane
I alluded to this, but our business partnership and structure and how we're trying to make it work in a really tough industry, I love it and.

41:57
Grace Kennedy
I so appreciate how frank and honest you are about, you know, how tough it can because I think it's useful for early stage founders to know what they're getting themselves into. So I think it's really valuable. And thank you so much.

42:09
Cason Crane
Well, thank you for saying that. I mean, it is my biggest pet peeve when I listen to CPG podcasts. I think memories are just stories that we tell ourselves. And I think like memory is fallible, like it's stories, right? They I'm not expecting anyone to be able to tell their life or career or business story perfectly because that's just not how the human brain works. And I do find it a little frustrating when the story that founders tell, particularly very successful founders, like, I'm still in the throes of an emerging unprofitable CPG business, but the founders that have, you know, gotten further or exit, whatever, and they tell their like stories, even when they talk about the highs and lows it can, I think sometimes it's an overly positive spin on the realities.

42:57
Cason Crane
And so I listen to a podcast, I'm not going to say which company it was I listened to, like how I built this podcast for a brand that has been successful. And I, for a time I was very disheartened not having even remotely the same like it set an unfair bar. I think that isn't realistic and also like, might not have actually been how it happened. So anyway, all that to say, take everything you hear and read with a grain of salt, especially on Twitter or X. But yeah, no, it's hard. It's really hard. And just because it's hard doesn't mean you don't have a great product, doesn't mean that there isn't a strong future for your product, doesn't mean that you don't have traction. So don't give up.

43:40
Grace Kennedy
I love that. That's a perfect note to end on. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Case and everyone check out Explorer Cold Brew. It's truly delicious. They also have a chai concentrate which is also delicious and check them out when they launch and all these exciting retail launches and just follow along and yeah, thanks again.

43:59
Cason Crane
Thank you.

44:00
Grace Kennedy
All right everyone, thank you so much for listening. If you enjoy this episode, it would help us out so much if you left a 5 star review on ratethispodcast.com startupcpg I am Grace Kennedy, the host of the Founder Feature series. So feel free to add me on LinkedIn or reach out to me on Slack. I'm always on the hunt for new and exciting brands to feature and if you're a potential sponsor who would like to appear on the podcast, please email partnershipstartupcpg.com and finally, as a reminder for anyone listening, if you haven't already, we would love for you to join our community on Slack. You can sign up via our website, startupcpg.com.