The Startup CPG Podcast

Mackie Swan
That was kind of a light bulb moment for her. And this idea was back in 2016. So eight years ago, the number of female focused sex brands that you'd find on the market today. So she brought her husband and their best friend Weston in, and she said, hey, I think we have an idea here. There's a real white space to create a brand that's not only natural, organic, clean, really speaks to that more conscious consumer, but also really positions the woman as the buyer in this category.

00:36
Grace Kennedy
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the startup CPG podcast. This is Grace, and I am here today with another founder feature. Today I talked to Mackie of Woomore Play, a sexual wellness brand that creates organic intimacy products for women and their partners. I think it's so important to destigmatize sexual wellness and pleasure.

00:58
Grace Kennedy
So I loved this conversation with Mackie.

01:01
Grace Kennedy
We talked about everything from scaling a brand in advice category to navigating venture capital funding. I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. And as always, let me know what you think. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the startup CPG podcast. This is Grace, and today I am so excited to be joined by Mackie Swan. Mackie is the founder of Woo more play. They're a brand that provides premium organic intimacy products. So welcome to the show, Mackie.

01:30
Mackie Swan
Thank you so much for having me, Grace. I'm so excited to be here.

01:33
Grace Kennedy
Yes, I'm excited too. And I'm excited to talk about all things intimacy products as you describe. But first and foremost, I'd love for you to just let our listeners know. Who is Woomoor play?

01:44
Mackie Swan
Absolutely. Well, you said it well in the intro. Woomoor Play is a brand that exists to help women feel more comfortable exploring the pleasurable side of life. So we make organic sexual wellness products for women and their partners.

01:56
Grace Kennedy
Yes. I love that. So can you just dive a little bit into why did you decide to create this brand and when did you decide it was time to dive in and really found this company?

02:11
Mackie Swan
Absolutely. So happy to share more about the origin story of woo more play. Funny enough, I'm actually not one of the three original co founders of the brand. They brought me on as their first non founder CEO a couple of years after they had launched. Our brand came to because a woman named Lauren Bostic, who's pretty well known online, she runs a brand called the Skinny Confidential. She had been experiencing Utis every time she was intimate with her husband. It didn't seem to matter if she wasn't using any product or if she was using a conventional lubricant from the grocery store. She was always experiencing this really uncomfortable aftermath. So she'd been venting about it to a few friends and somebody said, instead of going and, you know, buying a bottle of ky or astroglide or whatever, I.

02:55
Mackie Swan
Why don't you try and get some organic coconut oil, just, you know, in a jar from Whole Foods. It's allegedly a really good lubricant alternative. She had a great experience and she didn't get a UTI afterwards, so that was kind of a light bulb moment for her. And this idea was back in 2016. So eight years ago, there really weren't the number of female focused sex brands that you'd find on the market today. And so she brought her husband and their best friend Weston in, and she said, hey, I think we have an idea here. There's a real white space to create a brand that's not only natural, organic, clean, really speaks to that more conscious consumer, but also really positions the woman as the buyer in this category. So that was the light bulb moment.

03:37
Mackie Swan
The three of them decided to build this business together. Spent two years working on the first formulation, which is still our hero product today, our coconut love oil lubricants. And, yeah, Woomworth play was born.

03:48
Grace Kennedy
Amazing. So when you were brought on, what was your role and how did you transition into the CEO? I guess you are now.

03:56
Mackie Swan
Yes. Yes. So I was super lucky to get into the sexual wellness industry, I think before it was cool. Like, I've been working in the space for a really long time. I was really fortunate to work at another earlier stage. Sexual wellness brand in the right place at the right time. Learned a lot about the category and the industry and what it means to scale a brand in the natural space. And CPG, and had met the founding team at Woo, was really excited about what they were building, not just given the nature of the products and the category itself, but also Woomwort plays brand position is really focused on pleasure. So we're not coming at sexual wellness from a place of, you know, being health minded and talking about it as part of your health and wellness routine.

04:41
Mackie Swan
We're really saying, hey, women deserve to have good sex just for the sake of having good sex. That doesn't always mean that there's, you know, a health issue involved. And so I was super stoked about the brand positioning, and they brought me on as CEO three years after launch, I think. Sorry, my. Yeah, my dates are running together, so about three years in, they brought me on, which at this point was three years ago. And it was still early stage. We were kind of post seed pre series a when I joined. And I've just had an amazing time growing the brands and working on omnichannel distribution and I. Fundraising and regulatory compliance and kind of all the things that come with being an early stage CEO.

05:21
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. And I love what you're saying about this focus on pleasure and putting that front and center, I guess, is what I was trying to say, because I do think that's definitely a newer thing that's happening in these sexual wellness brands that I'm seeing around the marketplace. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about what it is like, sort of combating some of the stereotypes around sexual wellness and also educating consumers in this industry where for a long time it was so taboo to talk about. Nobody would want to say even pleasure or women's pleasure. So what's it like educating consumers in this space?

06:03
Mackie Swan
It's so challenging. I mean, it's like the best thing in the world and the hardest thing in the world, I think. And it's interesting because I've been in this space for so long, and also, I never had a. Any weirdness talking about sex. I just grew up in a household where my parents were open about it. I got a lot of sex ed in public school. Like, I missed the memo that we're meant to be ashamed of our sexuality. So I never had that personal barrier, I think. And then on top of that, I've been in this industry for close to a decade now. And so I'm really close to it. I forget how weird people can get. I forget how squirrely people can get about it. And it shows up in the places that you least expect it.

06:42
Mackie Swan
I'll often have conversations with customers or with professional contacts where I'm expecting them to be uncomfortable and they could not be more comfortable navigating it, talking about it, being really open. And then on the flip side, sometimes I'm speaking to somebody, you know, super high level that I think is going to be really able to talk about my business in an elevated way. And they're just, like, completely transparent about how embarrassed and how awkward they feel. And so I think that it's one of those things that still very much exists, and there's a lot to overcome. I think that there's, like, hundreds of years of history that have, like, created the space of shame and weirdness around women's sexuality, but we just focus on education.

07:26
Mackie Swan
And I think that, like, as a brand, something I talk about with my team all the time is we have to create a space where it's okay to ask the question. And if people aren't comfortable asking questions about this, they're never going to learn what the answer is. And so just creating a space where people can feel vulnerable and open. And I think that on a tactical level, the way that we do that is we use a lot of humor. So in our brand messaging and our tone of voice, even in our customer service messages, we try to be really playful. We try to introduce some levity. And for us, that means, hey, this is an atmosphere where you might personally be really uncomfortable.

08:01
Mackie Swan
But, hey, it took a lot of courage and a lot of bravery to reach out to this brand and ask these questions. So we're going to make it fun for you, and we're not going to make it uncomfortable, and we're not going to make you regret sending that message to our CS team. And I think that's been really helpful as we've grown.

08:14
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. I love that idea, and I love that you had no shame growing up. That's awesome. Yeah.

08:20
Mackie Swan
Yeah. And I didn't realize how unusual that was. You know, I wasn't raised in a religious household, and I'm from Oregon and in my school system, like, they were really heavy on sex ed from a really scientific angle.

08:33
Grace Kennedy
Yeah.

08:34
Mackie Swan
And I don't think it was until I was well into adulthood that I fully understood how unusual that background is.

08:40
Grace Kennedy
Totally. And even if you think that you're not necessarily, even if you're raised in a way that you think wouldn't make you feel shame around sexual wellness and sexual pleasure, I think there's still so much messaging from society and even thinking about the story of your founder, there's so much shame about getting a UTI when, in fact, it's something that happens to so many women all the time, and they probably just need a better product or they need XYZ. But I. I know, you know, so many friends who have experienced that and felt so bad and felt so embarrassed and, you know, there's just nothing to be ashamed about.

09:15
Mackie Swan
Totally. Totally. It's like, okay, if you have a vagina, you're going to have a vaginal infection at some point. Everybody has it. It's UtI, it's BV, it's a yeast infection. Like, it's going to happen, and we all have bodies, and that's just, I think, part of, you know, being a human, and so it's nothing to be embarrassed about.

09:31
Grace Kennedy
Absolutely. So you spoke a little bit to how you do messaging with consumers, how have you done some of your messaging? Or with like retailers or wholesalers or things like that with, you know, again, this idea where some of this might be a little, people might be uncomfortable talking about this, but how have you approached growing woom or play in this category? That's a little bit trickier to talk about.

09:55
Mackie Swan
Yes. I mean, trial and error, if I'm being honest. That's certainly part of it. I think that I try to always like maintain the position that you get back what you put out. And so I try to just always speak about it in a very straightforward way and make sure that, hey, if I'm super comfortable about it, then hopefully the person on the other end of the conversation is going to be comfortable too. It's a really exciting time for this category in the retail marketplace. I think that especially in the last 18 or 24 months, there have been retailers like jumping into the sexual wellness space. That's a, it's a totally new area for them and they're seeing a lot of the excitement, a lot of enthusiasm around the category.

10:32
Mackie Swan
And I think that we're also kind of sitting at this unique juncture where beauty and intimacy are converging more and more. So that's been fun to see and I share that, to say that we are getting inbound interest. And I think that retailers are kind of waking up to the fact that, hey, this is a great category, not just because it's an important part of life and adulthood and relationships, but also it's going to make you money. Like if you offer your customers these products, you're going to better for it. To your question about how do we talk about it, I think it certainly depends on the retailer and the brand and just their comfort level and level of experience with these types of products.

11:08
Mackie Swan
I do think that showcasing, and this is true in any category, but showcasing just the growth of the market and some of the gaps and helping them understand how their assortment specifically can fill those gaps and also just educating about the types of consumers that are entering the space. It's one of the fastest growing consumer categories and one of the reasons for that is that more and more adult women are entering the space for the first time. The Covid-19 pandemic and quarantine and the way that consumers used that period of life to explore their own sexuality and explore their sexuality within their relationships, just saw hordes and hordes of women entering the sexual wellness market for the first time from all walks of life, from all demos, from all geographies within the US.

11:53
Mackie Swan
So I think being data driven and painting that story has been really useful for us as we've continued to grow our retail business.

12:01
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. And it's kind of a good reminder that at the end of the day, most retailers just want the data that they're going to get customers and that this is a category that is profitable. And so even if it is a topic that maybe is taboo or something they feel awkward talking about, if you can show that you're going to make them money and that it's a growing category, they're probably going to be on board.

12:23
Mackie Swan
Yeah, yeah. And also just, you know, startup CPG. Right. It's so many amazing brands, obviously really heavily focused on food and Bev, but I think personal care is following that pattern where people want to see a natural and organic alternative. So if a store has a family planning aisle, that has condoms, that has pregnancy tests, and that has a couple conventional lubricants, like retailers need to understand that people want to see a better for you product when it comes to their body care just as much as when it comes to their food in Bev.

12:54
Grace Kennedy
It's so true. And definitely as a consumer myself, as a female consumer myself, that's something I feel like in the last few years, I've become more aware of that for so long. Yeah, you just went to the CV's and got whatever's on the shelf. But now we're learning so much more about these different things that we put on top of inside of our body and we want, as consumers, a better for you option beyond the food aisle. Speaking to that, what sort of retailers have you guys been approached by or approaching? And where do you kind of see woomoor play living or where does it already live in the retail market?

13:29
Mackie Swan
Yeah, great question. So we're actually, we've grown a ton in retail, particularly in the last twelve months. We've started attacking what I would say kind of the more beauty prestige channel. So we sell our full line with Nordstrom. A couple of our top customers are folks like anthropologie revolve. We launched with Gopuff late last year. So showing up where she shops, but also understanding that our brand positioning is currently focused obviously on slightly more, I would say, mass dish pricing. So, you know, our lubricant compared to a three or $4 conventional item in a grocery store isn't going to be as competitive as it is in some of those more elevated assortments. So that's where we've been focused. But that said, we are entering some new channels.

14:13
Mackie Swan
I don't know when this will air, but we have our biggest retail launch coming up in early September that I'm super excited about. And we're entering a couple new channels within the next six to nine months. So it's an exciting time for the brands.

14:25
Grace Kennedy
Very exciting. And I think this will be coming out in early September. So it could be perfect timing on all fronts for you to get that. That makes me think of another aspect that I saw just on your website, which is press and your approach to getting press for room or play. I noticed that you guys have gotten a lot of it, which is awesome. And especially I feel for these more personal care products, sexual wellness, things like that, at least. Again, personally as a consumer, I know I want someone to recommend me a product before I just go out and buy it. I'm very unlikely to buy a product that's so intimate just on an advertisement or anything like that. I want to be recommended it by a friend or by a press outlet I trust, or even like a social media person.

15:13
Grace Kennedy
So how have you approached a getting that press and then getting that message out there?

15:19
Mackie Swan
So this is such a funny question when you ask how we've approached getting press, because the honest answer is we haven't. We don't have a publicist. We've never had like a PR agency that we've worked with or paid for. And I think I credit the fact that we have had incredible press. I mean, in most months, like Cosmo, glamour, allure, all these really incredible women's health writes about us a lot. All of these really incredible publications have incorporated woomer play into their coverage on intimacy and sexual wellness. I think part of it is that we just make really good products. And I stand by the fact that they are natural, they are organic, they are body safe, they are all formulated with women's bodies and women's health and minds.

15:59
Mackie Swan
And I think that just like consumers are becoming more discerning about, hey, is this brand walking the talk? I think that editors and journalists are the same way. And so I think they're getting much more discerning around, hey, if I'm writing this piece on, you know, brands or products that I recommend for women to use in the most intimate way, I want to make sure it's a brand that's really doing what they say they do. So I think that's part of it is just the quality of our products. The other thing, and this is maybe becoming a less relevant the more time goes on. But historically, like this has been kind of a niche, and so unlike beauty, where I think there's, you know, feels like a billion different editors at a billion different publications.

16:39
Mackie Swan
Like, there's kind of a few rock stars in the space of sexual wellness when it comes to editors that are really committed to covering this industry and covering this category. And so I think that we've been fortunate to get on the radar and have continued to create products that impress them. And so we've been really lucky to get crazy amounts of coverage in ways that I do not entirely understand. So.

17:03
Grace Kennedy
Totally. I mean, yeah, I was just looking at the list of the different publications you guys have been in, and I was like, there's so many here. This is like the dream for any brand, but I love that. And it definitely does speak to the quality of your products and the messaging. And like you were saying, I think for so long, these products were made by men without really thinking about the unique needs of women. And so to have brands now that are really making these products specifically for women and specifically for women's needs, I feel like is a huge addition to not only the category, but just, like, women's health across the board.

17:38
Grace Kennedy
And even to just have a brand that has the messaging you guys have, I think is really exciting and important for a young woman, an older woman, anybody who wants to learn more about their sexuality and sexual wellness. So kudos.

17:53
Mackie Swan
Thank you. Thank you.

17:54
Grace Kennedy
So another question I had again, in this sort of press world, but what has been your guys approach to social media? Obviously, so many young women, young people are learning about brands through social media. So how have you guys approached either, you know, collaborations on social media, working with influencers, or just putting your content out there?

18:17
Mackie Swan
Yeah, that's a great question. Social media is really tough for us. We continue to face a ton of policy issues, not just when it comes to paid advertising campaigns on social platforms, even just our organic content. It often feels like it's a game of whack a mole, where it's like, okay, is this type of content or this creative? It got approved yesterday. Is it going to get approved today? Will it get approved tomorrow? It's hard to say. I think that we have continued to try, and I think that one thing we've done, for better or for worse, is just remain committed to our brand values and remain committed to the fact that woomworplay exists to destigmatize women's sexuality. And so if that means that I'm constantly in a fight with meta, fine. I'm constantly in a fight with meta.

19:02
Mackie Swan
But like myself and our team, like, we haven't been super willing to water down our content too much just for the sake of getting more reach online. And I think in some ways that's probably hurt us, but at the end of the day, I don't want to become part of the problem that we're trying to solve. And so we just continue to try. I think that we probably haven't grown on social as quickly as we could have if we didn't face those barriers. But at the same time, the connection that we have to our community and the connection that we have to our followers on social media is incredibly strong. If I let you read, like, the DM's that we get on Instagram every day, you would just be floored because people are like, super supportive, super vulnerable, super engaged.

19:42
Mackie Swan
And I think that's more important to me than like, how many likes am I getting on this post?

19:46
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. And I've noticed that myself on Instagram, even of just like different creators having to use like creative spelling of the words, like sexual or, you know, starring things out because they're worried about, you know, having Instagram take it down or anything like that. So that's definitely a big challenge. And meta, if you're listening, let's make some changes, please.

20:10
Mackie Swan
Please.

20:11
Grace Kennedy
I think this is going to get straight to Mark Zuckerberg.

20:14
Mackie Swan
I mean, let's send it to him. Somebody's got to have it. A connection, right?

20:17
Grace Kennedy
If you have a connection, hit up Mackie.

20:20
Mackie Swan
I will give you some woo, please.

20:22
Grace Kennedy
Yes. In exchange. Perfect. Well, I'm sure Mark Zuckerberg's partner would be thrilled.

20:27
Mackie Swan
Yeah, yeah, I think so too. Let's make it happen.

20:29
Grace Kennedy
Okay. I love it. Well, speaking, I guess, of the Silicon Valley of it all, you mentioned earlier on in the call doing some fundraising rounds. So how have you guys managed funding in this space? And as a brand and as a growing brand, obviously you're launching into more retail placements. So how have you approached fundraising?

20:50
Mackie Swan
Great question. We've been super fortunate. So we did have, before I came on board, they had done some fundraising, just more in angel and friends and family rounds and taken in a little bit of investment from a strategic investor. The year after I joined, we closed our first proper, like, venture capital round and have really wonderful investors. And we've continued to add a few more angels to our cap table since then as well. So we are VC backed. I think that's a decision that every founder, every startup CEO has to make is, you know, are we going to go the bootstrap route or are we going to look for outside financing? For a variety of reasons, we've chosen the path of outside financing and I think we've been better for it.

21:30
Mackie Swan
We have incredible partners and incredible stakeholders who do so much for us beyond just write us a check. And so that's part of it. And then earlier this year, we actually did a super fun crowdfunding campaign, which I had never done before. We were the first sex brand to launch on Startengine, which is the crowdfunding campaign backed by Mister wonderful Kevin O'Leary. We raised a million dollars in a three month period, so it was kind of an experiment. Nobody on our team had done it before, but just like you do when you run a startup, you kind of figure it out as you go. And were really fortunate to have a successful campaign and we saw that just as much, I think, as a marketing opportunity as like a fundraising vehicle.

22:12
Mackie Swan
It was more about how can we connect with our community and how can we really create some momentum around the brand as we attack all these new retail launches. So it's been really fun and I think that obviously the VC landscape for the world of CPG has changed really significantly. I think if you have the right partners and you have the right stakeholders, those people are going to help you navigate those changes.

22:33
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, that's great to hear. And I have two pronged questions from that. Which is? The first is you mentioned, you know, great partners and VC's. What advice would you give to somebody who's maybe entering into looking for VC partners? How would you advise them in the sense of what they're looking for? How do you know it's going to be a great partnership? Is it just like a vibe thing or how do you know this is the right partnership for you to engage in?

22:59
Mackie Swan
The real answer is you don't ever know with 100% confidence.

23:03
Grace Kennedy
Yeah.

23:03
Mackie Swan
Which is kind of the bummer that nobody wants to hear. I think that there's a lot of ways to pressure test one of those. I'm like the queen of back channeling. I don't care if it's a potential investor or a candidate that I'm interviewing for a job. I am going to find somebody in my network who knows someone who's worked with this person, who can kind of give me some offline information. So that's one way talking to other founders in their portfolio can be a really good source of information. I think also if you have existing investors or existing, you know, partners, stakeholders in your business who can maybe help you evaluate. That's another way to do it, because oftentimes, you know, investors all know each other. So if you ask around, that's a way, I think, to do some vetting.

23:45
Mackie Swan
But I think just more like a lot of it for me has kind of been a gut check in a way that served me really well. And what I mean by that is if you're pitching somebody and they're asking you all these questions that kind of feel like busy work or make you feel like they really don't understand your mission or really don't understand the value of the business and the brand that you've created. I think listen to that voice, like there's a reason that you're feeling that way.

24:11
Mackie Swan
On the flip side, the investors who have joined our business are people where the first few minutes of me talking to them, not only did I think, hey, they see the value in this brand, this business and myself, but they're really excited about the mission and they're really jazzed about what we're building and they really want to be included. I think if you come at it from that perspective where you're not just asking for money, you're kind of giving them the opportunity to join this adventure with you and really make some meaningful changes, I think that can help things feel more clear.

24:44
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's great advice. And, you know, the reality is, you never know with anybody. You could do every single check in the world and something could still go wrong or it could go perfectly. You don't know till you know. But I think it's great advice to really do your homework and also listen to your gut. So my second question was about the crowdfunding, which is I've definitely heard from more founders who are interested in going that route, especially, as you said, the VC landscape has shifted and funding has shifted. So how did you guys approach your crowdfunding campaign? I know you said, you know, you saw it as marketing as well, but how did you approach it? And what advice would you give to a fellow founder who may be deciding to launch their own crowdfunding campaign?

25:25
Mackie Swan
Yes. So in terms of how we approached it, we launched our crowdfunding campaign in January of this year. So almost exactly six years after our first product launch. Because of that, I mean, we have a really remarkable community that is well into six figures of people who have been buying our products and buying our brand and supporting us over the last six years. So I do want to be transparent about the fact that I think we had a supportive community already established for many years before went back into this crowdfunding campaign. So I think that was a big part of what made it so successful. We approached it with a lot of humor. We really leaned into kind of the playful side of the brand, and we had a lot of fun with our creative and our campaign video.

26:09
Mackie Swan
And we're like, if we're doing this, like, let's make it fun, let's make it silly. And I think that really resonated with people. In terms of advice, I think first and foremost, be very thoughtful about the platform that you choose to launch with. We spend a lot of time evaluating the major players in the space and understanding the pros and cons. And each of them have pros and cons. There's no one clear winner. But understanding, like, okay, with our goals, with where we are as a brand, with what we're good at, with what we're not so good at, who's going to be the best fit for us. I think that's a really important decision. The other thing to know and hindsight is 2020, of course, like, you don't learn until you do it, but it's a lot of work.

26:50
Mackie Swan
It is a lot of work. If you're a startup and you have a small team and you have limited bandwidth and limited resources, understand that if you decide to do this, it is going to take up your entire life for many months. It's in no way, in my experience, easier or less work than a private vc round. I think some things were better, some things are worse. But just understand, like the administrative burden, the creative burden, so much goes into launching the campaign. And then once you launch, I mean, I was talking to investors every single day. They're sending emails, they're asking questions, you're hosting community calls.

27:30
Mackie Swan
So make sure when you do it that you're ready to do it in all the ways, but especially that you're doing it, like during a time in your business where you can really give it your undivided attention, because I think that's what it requires to be successful.

27:43
Grace Kennedy
Totally. Yeah. There's so much that you don't know that will come up. And so it's like, be prepared to spend all your time on this crowdfunding campaign. And that's definitely something I've heard from other founders who have gone down the route of crowdfunding. And, you know, like you said, there's pros and cons with every route, and it's just deciding which pros you'd prefer. And which cons you'd rather avoid and then going from there. So thinking a little bit more broadly, just as a CEO yourself now of a startup, what has been some of the biggest challenges of running woomer play in the sexual wellness space and also just being the CEO of, yeah, this.

28:23
Mackie Swan
Emerging brand, oh my gosh, there's so many challenges. When you sent me the pre read of, I think it said like, what is the biggest fail? And like, oh my gosh, what week is it? Like when you're running a startup, there's always a fire, there's always something that breaks that, you know, you don't know until it happens. I think one thing that comes to mind when I think about like really big challenges, like kind of come to Jesus moments in the history of our brand and my tenure at Woohoon play, one of them was related to regulatory. So personal lubricants are FDA regulated class two medical devices because they're applied internally in the body.

28:59
Mackie Swan
So in order to do that, you have to obtain medical device 510 clearance, which is a big hairy ass process that can take, you know, sometimes it takes people several years, sometimes it could take 18 months. It's very expensive, very time consuming. You do a lot of testing, a lot of back and forth with the FDA, and we had gotten pretty far down the road with a new partner who was overseeing regulatory changes, filing compliance, and also working with the manufacturing facility because, you know, you have to make sure that you're working with FDA certified facilities and they're doing all the stuff that goes into that.

29:37
Mackie Swan
So, very long story short, it came to my attention in a pretty brutal way, well into this process, probably a year into working with this new partner, that they were actually not going to be the right partner for us in the long term. And there was like a pretty egregious oversight that had occurred and had not been appropriately communicated. And I just had this moment of, I can't rely on this partner and I can't grow my business. And if I finish this process of FDA clearance with them, that means I'm kind of committing to them for a period of time. And so I had to kind of take a step back and say, am I really starting over? Like, am I losing the last twelve months? And I don't even want to think about the dollar amount that we had invested in that relationship?

30:23
Mackie Swan
Or do I just kind of like bite the bullet and hope that it's okay and hope that we can fix it and finish this process with them? And I couldn't do it like, I couldn't do it. So it was kind of like, we have to start over and we have to go back to the drawing board. Like literally googling facilities we could use, like starting at step one after so much time and effort had been invested. And that was really heartbreaking and really challenging and frankly, really scary because, you know, you have these timelines that you're working toward when it comes to launches and retailers and I, you know, different distribution channels. So it was a really tough and scary decision to make.

31:03
Mackie Swan
But I think that, like, when founders and CEO's are faced with those issues, you normally know what the right path forward is. You just kind of have to, like, have the courage to follow that path. That was like a bad one. That was real challenging.

31:19
Grace Kennedy
That is tough. Yeah, and that's an element I hadn't even considered, honestly, that personal lubricants would be, have to be medical, you know, gradevere, or have to be FDA approved, which makes complete sense. But that's just like a whole nother doozy that you have to go through of this approval and dealing with bureaucracy can be very frustrating.

31:39
Mackie Swan
Very frustrating, very expensive, not startup friendly, and a workaround that I know a lot of players in the space. If you're licensing somebody else's formula, then you can bypass a lot of those efforts. Right. But when you're developing formulas, you know, custom from scratch the way that we do at woo, you have to jump through all of those hoops. And so it is really expensive, but it's what allows us to innovate and it's what allows us to create products that we're super proud of and that we know are not just like, hey, here's this formula that is being sold by ten other brands that we're just going to put our brand color on. So it's what we're committed to doing and it's one thing that I'm super proud of, but it does come with some painful moments as well, for sure.

32:19
Grace Kennedy
Yes, absolutely. And yeah, I think. But it's that tension of choosing to stay true to the ethics of your brand and the mission of your brand versus taking the easier way or the shortcut that might make things simple or might make things less expensive, but would ultimately undermine the mission of your brand. And like you said, so many consumers these days really want to see a brand that's walking the walk and not just saying they're doing things. So I think it's really great to hear that is true for you guys and that you're continuing to do so even when I. It makes your life a lot harder. Yes, and a lot more challenging.

32:54
Grace Kennedy
So another question, and we'll wrap up soon, but was for other founders who are thinking of entering one of these categories, like sexual wellness, for example, or any other category that maybe is more taboo or historically taboo, obviously so much of that is changing. What advice would you give them if they're thinking of entering a category like this?

33:14
Mackie Swan
I would say if it's something you're super passionate about to do it. I wish there were more of us, which sounds weird because it's like, wait, what? She wants more competitors. But I wish that we lived in a world where these products were readily available and they weren't stigmatized and they weren't like a sensitive, awkward topic for people. So I think it's great if more people want to enter the space and more are like, as the, you know, market growth has shown, I think that people are catching on to the opportunity and jumping right in.

33:43
Mackie Swan
I think that this is not unique to this category or any vice category, but if I was talking to anybody who said, hey, I'm thinking about starting a brand, like make sure that you really want it and that you're excited about it and that you feel compelled to do the work regardless of the outcome. Running a startup is super hard. It takes a lot of energy. It takes a lot of commitment. It takes a lot of resilience. And so I think that, you know, make sure that you are, like, really ready to do it. And at the same time, ignorance can be bliss.

34:18
Mackie Swan
And I think the naivete of, like, getting into an industry that you don't know nothing about means that you know, sometimes have a sense of confidence or have a sense of courage that you have because you don't know what you don't know. Right. But I think that's the number one, is like, if you would do this even if you weren't going to make a dollar doing it, then take a chance. Yeah, take the leap.

34:37
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, I love that. And that's a perfect place to sort of wrap up. But my final question is, what are you most excited about? I mean, you mentioned some things or you teased some things, but what are you most excited about in the year to come for Woomore playdead? And where can people learn more about woomer play? And, yeah, what does the next year look like for you guys?

34:55
Mackie Swan
Yes, there's so many exciting things in the pipeline right now. So we're deeply focused on retail launches, as I mentioned, and hopefully around the time this comes out, we'll be talking about it publicly. We're also working on a couple of new product launches that folks will see from us in the next six to nine months that are really like game changing products in our assortments and things that we have never done before that I am incredibly excited about. And we're just focused on continuing to support our community and continuing to educate people and making sure that Woomoor play continues to exist as like a platform and a place where people feel comfortable exploring their sexuality and having more fulfilling relationships. And if people want to learn more woomooreplay.com, they can also follow us on socialoomooreplay.

35:42
Mackie Swan
You do have to type it in exactly as it appears because depending on the day, we are probably shadow banned. But yeah, I think that's it.

35:49
Grace Kennedy
I love it and I can't wait to hear about all the new products and the new retail launches. Super exciting. And yeah, everybody, check out Woomore play and thanks so much for coming on the show. Mackie amazing.

36:00
Mackie Swan
Thank you so much grace. This is an awesome conversation.

36:03
Grace Kennedy
All right everyone, thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode of the podcast, it would help us out so much if you left a five star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. I am Grace Kennedy, the editor for startup CPG, so feel free to add me on LinkedIn or reach out to me on Slack. I'm always on the hunt for new and exciting brands to feature, and if you're a potential sponsor that would like to appear on the podcast, please email partnershipsartupcpg.com. And finally, as a reminder for anyone listening, if you haven't already, we would love for you to join our community on Slack and you can sign up via our website, startupcpg.com.