The Startup CPG Podcast

Sabah Ashraf
We are a plant based indian food brand and our mission is to make it easy for people to joyfully nourish themselves without sacrificing their health, the planet or their time. And we have recently launched. And to have this opportunity to be able to share our story is something we're incredibly grateful for. Really. Early days we knew that there were certain things that is a brand we wanted to stand for in as products, especially with aspirations of delivering to the masses. We knew we wanted to be 100% made from plants and we looked at the world and where it was and wanted to make the best decisions for what we could see for where nutrition was and the earth was, and having a nice footprint as well on the earth. So were 100%. We still are at the brand level, 100% made from plants.

00:58
Sabah Ashraf
We have no gluten, dairy, soy or nuts. And these types of decisions were really important to us.

01:07
Grace Kennedy
Hello and welcome back. My name is Grace. I am the startup CPG editor and we are here with another founder Friday bonus episode. We're interviewing Saba today, the founder of House of Kajana, a delicious frozen food brand. But I will let Saba introduce herself more eloquently.

01:30
Sabah Ashraf
Hi Grace, it is so nice to meet you and such an incredible moment to be here and have the opportunity to talk about our brand, House of Kajana. We are a plant based indian food brand and our mission is to make it easy for people to joyfully nourish themselves without sacrificing their health, the planet, or their time. And we have recently launched. And to have this opportunity to be able to share our story is something we're incredibly grateful for. And I also just want to give a heartfelt shout out to the startup CPG team and the community.

02:06
Sabah Ashraf
When we first started this company just a few years ago, I'll say we had a running joke with our team, which was every time there was a topic or a theme or something that were trying to figure out magically, a podcast on that exact beam would be released by startup CPG and the founder stories and the wisdom that was being shared were things that really benefited us. And they still do for sure. And so between that, the Slack channel that we quickly joined, and then we'll talk about the other moments we've had with startup CPG since then. Just want to say incredibly grateful. And the other running joke on our team was, we'd always say, well, one day when we're on startup CPG doing a podcast, we can share some of these learnings. So thanks again.

02:51
Grace Kennedy
Yes, and that's the whole, like, beautiful part of the CPG community, honestly, is like, everyone learning from each other and passing along that wisdom as you grow. And I love that full circle moment for you guys. So super happy to have you here on the podcast, especially with all of the exciting things that are happening with House of Kajana. So super excited to dive in. But before we sort of get into the now of House of Kajana, I'd love for you to share a little bit about sort of the origin story of House of vagina. You know, why did you decide to start this brand, and what did it take to get to a launch point? You know, from the idea to we have a product. What was that path like for you guys?

03:32
Sabah Ashraf
Oh, my gosh, so much. I think I'll start at the very beginning, which is I have had a love for indian food all my life. I'm first generation american. My father was from Kashmir, and I grew up outside of Boston. And we all only ate indian food at home and had a love of it. And we also had a cook that lived with us in our home who spoiled us rotten with these beautiful meals. And I grew accustomed to them. And when he had to leave us, as I was a child, and this was the early eighties, we got this big freezer and put it in the basement, and he cooked a year's worth of beautiful meals for us and stored them in the freezer. And so, as a child, I learned that the freezer was the treasure chest of our home.

04:22
Sabah Ashraf
And these beautiful meals could be made and stored and come back magically just as good and at times even better than they originally had been, given their convenience and the fact that they were there. And so, for me, that has always made my heart beat a little bit faster. And I've had a love for that type of option and cuisine and indian food in particular, obviously, I'm from Kashmir and northern India, has one style of food, and I went to boarding school as well. In southern India, where the cuisine is totally different. It is very much 100% vegan and made from beautiful coconut curries and different types of especially gluten free options. So early in my life, I learned there were so many different ways that it could show up and bring joy and always be a convener.

05:16
Sabah Ashraf
And as I traveled the world and had many opportunities throughout my career to experience indian food, because I've always done that no matter what country I'm in or where I am, I've gone to local restaurants, see how it's celebrated, see how people show up and enjoy themselves. And. And that heart was something that, and loves, I felt early on. And so with my own career, I started investment banking, doing consumer products. And so me, consumer and brands were definitely the start of my career, but certainly something I was passionate about. And after I did that, I worked in private equity, where I was focused on manufacturing. And so you can see how these worlds come together later on. And, Ari, I'm so comfortable in a factory, by the way. It's fascinating. It's like coming home when I go into one.

06:04
Sabah Ashraf
And then after that, I went to business school, and it was there where I fell in love with the creative path and the different ways of approaching product creation and unmet needs. And it was a time that the ipod had just come out on the market and people were starting to understand the importance of design and great customer experiences. And I then pivoted in my career to the second chapter of it and really focused on creative and launching new products and brands and spent the next 15, almost 20 years in that world.

06:40
Sabah Ashraf
And ten of those years at the very beginning at Frog design, where were doing, in many ways, exactly what we are doing right now at House of Gujana, which was designing beautiful products and understanding the unmet needs of consumers and wanting to deliver them well and deliver them joy and so forth. Fast forward after that to when I finally felt ready, even though you're never really ready. But I felt the courage and the conviction and the inclination to want to create a brand and a product and recognize that I had a passion, a very specific one, for indian food and the awareness that it could be delivered in a new way to what I was feeling, I was seeing in the grocery market shelves and the freezers, and really wanting to.

07:25
Sabah Ashraf
And so it was about three years ago where the full time kind of commitment from my end came in and the readiness to approach this. And with that, it has been an incredible journey in these last couple of years to create the company, build a team, raise capital, build a community around us, and prototype the meals themselves. So much fun, I have to say, fine manufacturers and all the rest of it. And so we can dive into the topics that you think might be the most relevant. But that's really been both my own journey as well as the start of the journey of house of Kajana, as we prepare to enter the market. And we just launched in the last year. And so with that launch, a lot of learnings and a lot of excitement and enthusiasm, especially for what's ahead.

08:14
Grace Kennedy
Yeah. And I love the whole winding path, but at the same time, everything sort of comes together in a. In a really convenient way for you to now be, like, perfectly set up to have a lot of expertise that is needed in. In CPG. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about. So, obviously, you spoke to all the different cuisines of India, right? North India, south India. And so how did you decide which of those cuisines to focus on and which of the meals you actually wanted to offer when there is such a huge variety that you could choose from?

08:49
Sabah Ashraf
Oh, my gosh. I mean, you hit it on the head. You had so many incredible considerations and options. And I'll start by highlighting my favorite chef of all time, chef Anita Jaisangani. She had a beautiful restaurant in New York City and still does in Houston. Pondicherry is incredible. If you haven't been there, run, don't walk, hop on the plane of that type of a trip. It's a transporting voyage. And she was my early collaborator in helping to identify what types of products that we could create. And I reached out to her. She was the one and only call. She was the only person that I really wanted it. And I hope I didn't count on it. I didn't count on her saying yes. But when she did, I thought, oh, my gosh. Maybe the first big win for House of Pajama.

09:39
Sabah Ashraf
And so she helped us to identify and build a roadmap. And really early days, we knew that there were certain things that is a brand we wanted to stand for. And as products, especially with aspirations of delivering to the masses, we knew we wanted to be 100% made from plants. And we looked at the world and where it was and wanted to make the best decisions for what we could see for where nutrition was and the earth was, and having the nice footprint print as well on the earth. So were 100%. We still are at the brand level, 100% made from plants. We have no gluten, dairy, soy or nuts. And these types of decisions were really important to us. So we started to look at what our overall portfolio could look like.

10:23
Sabah Ashraf
I remember going to a restaurant in Houston, and this is all during COVID by the way, and she had, like, 20 meals out there ready to go. And I thought, oh, my gosh, all of them. Obviously, that wasn't. And so choosing was. Was complex at the beginning because we fell in love with so many of the combinations. But what we knew ultimately, as we started to look at them, was there were a few clear winners, I'd say about five. And we knew we wanted to do full meals. That was the other thing.

10:49
Sabah Ashraf
So what we allowed was actually, number one, to start to go to manufacturers and to have them do bench tops and pricing and estimates around our current considerations for those meals, because that also helped us to understand from a commercialization standpoint what the complexities were going to be that would help make decisions. We were able to look at ingredient costs as well is pretty much magic. What we also realized really quickly was that the meals that were emerging because they were all delicious were ones that really hit on and highlighted true indian classic dishes. And so when you go to an indian restaurant, there are always a few meals that make it on every table and then a bunch of others, as there should be always. There's always some form of a tikka masala.

11:39
Sabah Ashraf
There is always some form of a butternut or a paneer itself that typically has, like, a beautiful sag with it and then some sort of a curry. And so for us, as we started to look at our products, we realized that were really focused on selling in a grocery store behind a freezer door. We recognize we better hit flavor profile that people already knew and loved. As much as we wanted to do exotic things that people had never heard of and surprise them and wow them at the beginning, we knew as a new brand, we should focus on the basic, deliver it in a new way, and really nail that and build a relationship with our consumer. And that's how we chose our first three meals. And so our first three meals are a roasted cauliflower tikka masala with a pea, a human. Right.

12:27
Sabah Ashraf
I'll also say that was the Shelfie winner last year from startup CPG. And it's definitely been a product that has been celebrated by us and others. It's kind of the gateway product in so many ways. We also have a roasted butternut saag dish with a bright tomato basmati rice that has beautiful curry leaves in it, and pumpkin seeds from a superfood standpoint to give it crunch. And then our third dip is a coconut Malabar curry, that is with a pasmati rice, as well with Julienne spinach, also with pumpkin seeds. And all three dishes themselves really complete. We wanted to hit the beautiful solo moment, and then we also wanted to make sure that the meals that we are creating were meals that would translate really quickly into the indian feast feeling. And so we have a different rice in each of our dishes.

13:15
Sabah Ashraf
It's a bejeweled rice component. That's how we look at it in itself. It's a beautiful meal in so many ways because it delivers vegetables and protein, and they're really just delicious. And so each of our meals having a different rice component was also something that took us a long time to solve for, because one of the things that we knew was we wanted people to feel like they could have all of our meals and share them really in a joyful way with the other people around them, whether they were in the office or they were at home. So we always say, if you warm up three of our meals, you're going to need six spoons because you're going to have different components to share across everybody.

13:56
Grace Kennedy
I love that. And they all sound so delicious. And yes, your cauliflower was the shelfie winner, which. Very exciting. And speaking of that, could you speak a little bit? You know, like, what was it like to be a shelfie's winner? We started this award program a few years ago now, and I I am in the throes of judging products myself now, but I would love to hear from, you know, one of our past selfie winners. Like, what was that experience like for you?

14:22
Sabah Ashraf
Definitely. I mean, first of all, so grateful that program even exists. And I hope you know how much for the recipients of the work you're doing and you're evaluating right now. These moments really matter to us. And so for us, when we had submitted last year, were excited to submit, and it took a few months right before you hear back. And we never forgot that we had submitted. We just weren't focused on it at the moment where we started to learn that there is a chance that were going to really be considered for it. And at the time where that had happened, we'd actually just launched in retail, which is why our whole focus at that point was at our first. And we'll talk about who that was and how we got to that point. But were just starting to be offered to consumers.

15:12
Sabah Ashraf
And when we learned that we won the shelfie, it was such an incredible moment for a brand new brand that nobody knew to be able to just be recognized and to be on the map and to help discovery, which is such an important moment for all brands. And we need it. We need that help with discovery. And also, it's also so incredible for the team when you're working together and you're working so hard and you know that a lot of the proof points and the milestones, even though they happen in their own way every day you're working towards something, and then you find out these moments and they just, they rally you and your energy increases and it was definitely a joyful moment. There might have even been some tears on that end across, oh, my gosh, this is happening.

15:57
Sabah Ashraf
So that's been important to us. And, and I'd say the other thing is, as we're now starting to spend a lot more time with buyers at different retailers, we're finding that moment and that recognition of the shelfie has been really valuable for us in our conversations with them as well.

16:14
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, I love that. And it is so important when you get on the shelves to be like, oh, I've heard of this brand before. Oh, it was on the shelfies or, oh, it was here. So that makes a lot of sense. And I'm super happy for you guys. So speaking of retailers, getting into them, all of these things, I know you guys are about to launch with a very exciting retailer, which I will let you share. But can you also tell us a little bit about, like, the first retailer you launched with and how you got into your first retailer and then how you have grown that process to now be getting to a place where you can be launching nationwide?

16:53
Sabah Ashraf
Absolutely. It's wonderful to say it out loud and say it to you, knowing that we're filming this and we'll be announcing this in a few weeks. And so getting used to saying this out loud, because until now, it's just, it's felt like a dream moment, which is we are about to launch with Whole Foods, and it is something that we have had our hearts set on for a long time. Feeling that retailer and the community behind it and the types of consumers that they're able to attract and what they stand for would really represent for us the opportunity to be able to meet customers where they are and also demonstrate that people want better options of the types of products that they're seeing in frozen, and they're starting to understand the power of frozen.

17:41
Sabah Ashraf
And so for us to have that be the retailer that we're physically showing up with and as well as online for our start in that area is incredible. And so I do want to highlight, actually, I think one of the things that was a mystery to us, definitely before we started, that our advisors and speaking to other founders really helped us to navigate. I would love to share as well, which is that when it comes to launching your products, the most important. Well, not the most important, but something to be thinking about really deliberately is the sequencing of your launch. And for us, we launched with pop up grocer and for a new brand to be launching for the very first time, it's such a special moment and pop up grocer for us was just this perfect pairing.

18:32
Sabah Ashraf
And so were, as they launched their permanent flagship store in New York. It was the first time we sat on a shelf, and I remember going back to that freezer all the time and just going and looking at it and thinking, oh, my gosh, we're sitting on a shelf right now. Look, it was such a special moment, and it still is for us as we are there. A year passed when we first got onto that shelf, but were able to learn in just that small format for us, number one, what it meant to start to commercialize as a small brand and to be able to think about things such as distribution and your three PL partners and being prepared.

19:09
Sabah Ashraf
And we also started to learn from consumers really quickly that they were buying more than one of our products at a time, and the attachment was high. And we concluded that was very much based on the fact that, well, not only are products beautiful, because they do look like these jewels and these gems that sit in your freezer and stand out, but we recognize that the products themselves really have similar qualities with regards to what they stand for, that people were willing to and wanted to try more than one at a time. And so that attachment rate was something that was really a incredible data point for us with pop up grocer, because it allowed us, within two months of launching with pop up grocer, to be able to talk to fresh direct.

19:51
Sabah Ashraf
And for us, we felt that fresh direct was going to be the perfect partner. And it turned out to definitely be that way for us, which was in New York, in the New York area. We wanted our frozen products to make it into people's homes and into their freezer as easily as possible. And first, again, an early company, it allowed us to focus on a single retailer. So for us, we got into fresh direct, and that was last summer. And that was the first time that were distributing in our minds, you know, to thousands of houses, people we didn't know who were buying our products. I remember that moment. It's a wonderful feeling when you start to realize that.

20:31
Sabah Ashraf
And with that, we bought the data package, and I'm sharing all these moments because these were things that people helped us to make decisions around. And they turned out to be gifts that have really continued to give for us. And so by buying the data around fresh direct, we learned really quickly that we had over 65% of the people buying our meals were net new to the frozen vegetarian meals category. So we realized that were picking up on that consumer who wanted better for you options who also had just not been embracing this opportunity before in their past. We believe they were likely ordering in the past and other options that they were doing, but they realized with our product, this was something that could integrate into their dinners at night, their quick work lunches.

21:21
Sabah Ashraf
That obviously is a large market that we are definitely focused on because we need great options for people. And when we learn that station, and then we also started to see that people were repeating or their repeat purchases on our meals, we took that data and it led us, you really, kind of boldly at that time, because it had only been about two months, but through some incredible friends of the brand and advisors, we had the opportunity to go and to meet with a global head of frozen at Whole Foods. And so that was end of August that we reached out. And at the beginning of September, went in and met him.

22:04
Sabah Ashraf
And I'm going to give a shout out to Chris Monka because meeting him in person and having him try our meals and being so supportive and seeing where were going as a brand new brand, but really a brand that had chosen partners so carefully because we always knew that we would want to scale. He tested our readiness. He gave us incredible feedback. He made it clear to us that we had to be, by the way, non gmo project verified, which we hadn't even thought of. And we did it immediately and realized that our products already passed the test, the learning along the way, and supported us. And so we've just been focused on that specific retailer since then. And I would say we initially thought we'd be launching in the northeast, or let's just say a few stores in the New York area.

22:52
Sabah Ashraf
We quickly learned it was the northeast, and we thought, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. And were delighted to learn recently that actually it's going to be in three regions, and they're kind of the highest likely or potential kind of clients for us and people who are customers who, like, love our types of products and want to see this on shelf. And these are people who are in south Pacific, so that around the La area as well as southwest, which is around Austin. So we're launching in those three regions. And we're still, right now, kind of in the planning phases of understanding exactly which stores they're going to be. But we will be on shelves. They're going to be on shelves next month. And so that's what led us to this opportunity.

23:40
Sabah Ashraf
And it's been an exciting and new phase for us to be working through.

23:46
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, no, it's so exciting. And I'm selfishly excited as well because, you know, there's a whole foods near me, so in the northeast, so I'm good to go. But how have you guys been. Obviously, it's a huge leap, right, to be launching in so many whole food stores. So how have you guys been preparing to take that leap as a business into, you know, this more like nationwide presence?

24:10
Sabah Ashraf
Again, really great question. It was something that we always felt that were working towards. And when we realized this fall the reality of the opportunity, number one, we thanked our partners and advisors for helping us early on to make sure that we had chosen manufacturers and teams who were world class and could scale with us when the time was ready. We were fortunate that we didn't have to find new partners to be able to work with at a time of scaling, because that type of work had been done.

24:44
Sabah Ashraf
By the way, I remember speaking last year with Jenna as were doing our interview for the shell fees and your frozen edition last summer, and were doing our 1st 30,000 unit run at our manufacturers, and I was had a hairnet in hand and tikka masala wafting through the air and talking to her and thinking, wow, we're doing a really big production. But really, were doing that to demonstrate that when the time was right, we could scale. So with regards to where we find ourselves now, which is that we do feel the confidence in our ability to scale the product. But what we realize is that, you know, with every phase, you learn the new mechanics and different types of things you have to navigate. And what we've learned is it's about distribution.

25:30
Sabah Ashraf
And so you spend all your time really dreaming of and working towards that retailer, and you think, how am I going to get into that retailer? And the moment you do, you realize, actually it's about also recognizing that it's the distributor in between your team, your product, and the retailer and building a relationship. And in our case, what we recognized was that was a very big world. We have a small team. Big shout out to my partner in crime, Lillian Cohen. She and I, in the last two and a half years, pretty much spend every day together, have been working in an amazing team around us, as well as a collaborator on the finance side, Gabby. But we have about a dozen other regular collaborators for us and for us.

26:14
Sabah Ashraf
When we started to realize we had to figure out distribution, we knew, wow, this is a big new world to figure out. And we heard about the up next program, which Unfi has. And so we really quickly made sure to apply to that and to give it our all. And so were delighted to find out. We got into that in December. And I can't recommend enough for other people who are thinking about starting their own brand or at a phase where they're ready to scale, which is find all these incubators and programs that are out there to help you when you're still navigating the first steps, because they're invaluable and so, and they're really there to help and they're more of them than we ever would have thought initially.

26:57
Sabah Ashraf
And so for us, we have felt the confidence in being able to get the product to all these over 150 stores in this next month. But what we realize is that it's been based on finding the right partners to support us in that. And, and it's been great. And I'll also say that being partnered with great brokers at these moments for scale is something to really recognize that if you haven't done this before, they are experts and they've done it day in and day out. And it's a, they can deliver peace of mind in a way with the right partners, which we do have in our team at Greenspan sales who have helped us to navigate these steps.

27:45
Sabah Ashraf
So I guess the answer to it is that find great partners, build trust, and do it before it's time for these big launch moments, because then you have familiarity and a really strong team around you to enter into these phases with.

28:01
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, I think that makes so much sense and it is great advice. And I have a follow up question that's maybe very big, but how do you find great partners?

28:11
Sabah Ashraf
Oh, wow. Okay. I, it's interesting. It depends on the types of areas you're thinking about within a business, but I'm going to start with the most important partners that I always think of, which is your team. And so our team is amazing in regards to you. We have built a culture, built trust, built a way to be able to navigate current and all new things that we need to figure out together. And so it starts with our team. I think when you build that culture and that awareness of great communication internally is you start to identify, first of all, you have to identify the outside partners you need because you don't know what you don't know. Thank you.

28:53
Sabah Ashraf
Start at CPG for your podcast where we started to realize, oh, wow, we have to figure out things like, you know, three PL brokers, etcetera, IP lawyers. So you figure out what you need and then you start to think about who those partners would be. And for us, we talk to other founders all the time. And it's been a great way to help us to navigate not only what we need, but to get a good short list. Actually, I haven't mentioned as well that we are WBENC. So we're not only women owned and minority owned, but we're part of this incredible network that is there to support us.

29:25
Sabah Ashraf
And we have found that the guidance we get from groups like that as well has helped us to really whittle down what some of these great initial partners could look like and who they might be. And then we evaluate ourselves. We always spend time with people before we hire them. Even as partners in our team. We also send them all meals. We want to make sure that they understand both what we're building, why it's special, and really buy into the mission of what we're doing. And so that has been how we've navigated our partnerships. And we've had pretty consistent partnerships actually, from the very beginning. And so that's something that is important to us. We've known from the very beginning the importance of not doing it alone and building that community. So those are things that we look for.

30:13
Grace Kennedy
I love that. And yeah, asking questions, asking other people you trust, who do you like working with, it's really all you can do is ask people for help. So I love that. And sort of thinking a little bit more broadly now about being a founder, but what has been one of the most challenging moments or things about being a founder and embarking upon this journey and how have you overcome it or how are you currently, you know, still working to overcome those challenges?

30:45
Sabah Ashraf
Well, I would say that you're never ready. That's something. There definitely is no playbook, as everybody says, and I'm here to reinforce there is no playbook. But having the confidence to start to build your own and really understanding the types of, like, what good looks like for you and what you want to build is a really important thing. So I would say, number one, as a founder, the things that I prioritize are continuously looking to develop really good habits myself and what works for me, at least. And so things like my morning pages, which thank God I've discovered them, as well as meditation and really surrounding myself with the right level of support and incredible friendships and professional relationships as well.

31:36
Sabah Ashraf
And so I think as a founder, especially in listening to people as we are getting started, I realized early on how lonely that journey could be as people talk about it and so wanted to prepare ourselves early on to be able to do our best to escape that feeling and build a lot of friends in the brand and have that support. And so it's something that I think about all the time and feel the benefits of and feel that is something that is worthy of prioritizing. And so I would say that's something that becomes a focus area for me. And then recognizing that as we're building our company, it's important to build relationships with other founders at different stages of where they're at because, or where we're at, and they're at because we all have things to learn from each other.

32:25
Sabah Ashraf
And the introductions we get from each other are incredible. And the depth of connection also means so much to all of us. I mean, the food industry itself really attracts a very specific, as I've learning kind of person. These are tender hearted people who are full of conviction, love what they're doing. You have to love it if you're going to be going in the way that all of us have to go in. And it's been a community that I've loved the most, actually, in so many ways in my career.

32:53
Grace Kennedy
Yeah, I love that. And so many good nuggets of wisdom in there. And you have already given us so much advice to other founders. But I do love to ask this question, which again, is a big one, so you could take a moment if you need it. But what is one thing you wish you'd known, you know, if someone was coming to you in your position, where you were, you know, a few years ago when you were just thinking of house, of Kajana as a brand, what's one thing you know, now that you wish you'd known when you started?

33:23
Sabah Ashraf
One thing that somebody gave me early in my career, really good advice for that we have done regularly that has served us well. That I can definitely start with, which is treat every single conversation you have as a pitch and an opportunity for people to be able to learn about you and what you're building and why you're building it. We'll get onto a call with, you know, an insurance team, we'll get onto a call with a product supplier, with, you know, you name it, obviously a manufacturer. And rather than show up and have a meeting, we always start a conversation off with a capabilities deck and an introduction to who we are and what we're building. And it's really served us because it's allowed us to be able to connect at a deeper level that doesn't feel transactional.

34:18
Sabah Ashraf
And we are able to make other people recognize as well how important they are to our journey. And so that is something that I am glad that the light had been, you know, kind of shined on for me earlier on, because in doing that, we've been able to see the benefit of that. And then I would say, what would I have done differently in these last couple of years? I have definitely learned to always focus or listen to my intuition in my gut. And that's partially based off of, obviously, having worked in a lot of environments in my past where I have to be able to learn or trust that there's enough both intuition or ways to be able to analyze certain situations that regardless of what I'm hearing on the outside, I should have a feeling for myself and enough conviction to explore.

35:10
Sabah Ashraf
And I've definitely done that in the few times that I haven't had been pressure from other people or partners that felt that they were giving us the best advice that they knew and they felt, but that didn't necessarily map to where were and what specifically were doing. And so I appreciate it. I'm grateful that any of those moments and those learnings have happened, pretty much internally for us as we started to say and started to consider other things. But then went back to, actually, this is what feels right for us. But, you know, I think that it's just an important way to build a relationship with yourself and understand how you're going to make decisions and what's important to you to listen to everybody and to learn from them.

35:59
Sabah Ashraf
But to be selective and understand which things serve you and your brand and your team the best is an important focus and point of conviction, I think, to hold on to always.

36:11
Grace Kennedy
Absolutely.

36:11
Sabah Ashraf
Yeah.

36:12
Grace Kennedy
And it can be so loud in this industry with so much advice and different ways of doing things. And it's so important to remember what's right for my brand and me is maybe not going to necessarily be what was right for that brand over there. So, sort of last question really is beyond this very exciting launch into whole foods, you know, what does the rest of this year look like for House of Kajana?

36:36
Sabah Ashraf
Well, we are in the process right now of, number one, accepting the fact that the hard part is everyone says now is not getting on the shelf. It's actually making sure that your products get off the shelf and into people's homes and into people's, you know, lives.

36:55
Sabah Ashraf
And so we have very much kind of pivoted our focus now to identifying incredible collaborators and people from in the marketing world as well, who are helping us to be able to do our best to embrace the potential we have right now in sitting in all of these stores with these incredible consumers who pass our products all the time, to be able to make it into their lives and have them not only have a joyful, great experience, but want to tell their friends about it and their loved ones and to continue to come back, and we want to get to know them, too. And so we're approaching it almost like a book tour, which is that we're going to be in the regions and the stores that we're launching in. You know, we're going to be doing demos, like nonstop, just our team internally.

37:51
Sabah Ashraf
And so please come and say hi, by the way, everybody, when we're there, and we know it's an important level of effort to show as a team, and it's a really wonderful chance to learn and connect directly with your consumers, too. And so that's a big part of our year, which obviously implies a lot of traveling, too. And with that, we're going to start to also, which we actually have, which is identify which of the retailers feel right for us in these different, well, in the specific regions we're launching in, but understand which of them and be really selective to also build a relationship with them, because we have our products, they're ready to go and we want to pace ourselves, but make them accessible to many.

38:37
Sabah Ashraf
And we also have a number of other products we're so excited to start to not necessarily launch, but to be prepared because we've already identified them to be producing in the future. And so we're showing great discipline in the focus on our current collection. But oh, my gosh, we can't wait to share some of the things that we have in our pipeline.

39:04
Grace Kennedy
I love it, and I'm so excited for you guys. And so where can people learn more and follow along as you guys are launching and growing?

39:13
Sabah Ashraf
So, first of all, you can definitely find us on Instagram. And that's something that for us right now, because we haven't been available in so many parts of the country, we've been focused on a select area. But as we start to launch and need to build relationships in different parts of the country, Instagram is going to end up being a bigger part of the way that we can be discovered and people can learn about us. In addition to that, we'll be at a number of stores that we're going to be sharing with people what those stores are so they can come into the stores.

39:48
Sabah Ashraf
And we're also going to be launching with aisle, too, which we're really excited about because it's a really great way to be able to have people have the opportunity to seamlessly try our products and so you can look for us there. And then I would say of all of those things, the things that we would love the most is reach out to us. Both Lily and I are people who are so grateful for all of the different ways that so many companies and founders and teams were there for us as were launching and getting started. And I would say for people who feel that there could be things that we could help them with, please definitely reach out. And for people who want to learn more about our products, please do the same.

40:33
Sabah Ashraf
Because it's an important relationship for us to build and we want to hear people's comments and understand it always how we can improve and how we can show up in just the right ways for the areas of their lives that they're excited to explore. And the fact that we do believe that people want it to be easier or to have better options for themselves at mealtime. And so it's an area that is important to us and we will learn the best from those who are trying our products and on this journey with us.

41:08
Grace Kennedy
I love it. So everybody reach out to Saba on Slack. Follow House of Kajana on Instagram. It was such a pleasure to have you on today, Saba, and to learn more about all the exciting things you guys have planned. And yeah, I just can't wait to see more. But thank you all for listening.

41:25
Sabah Ashraf
Thank you, Grace. This was such a wonderful experience. Appreciate it.

41:31
Daniel Scharff
All right, everybody, thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed the podcast today, it would really help us out if you can leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. I am Daniel Scharff. I'm the host and founder of startup CPG. Please feel free to reach out or add me on LinkedIn. If you're a potential sponsor that would like to appear on the podcast, please email partnershipstartupcpg.com and reminder to all of you out there, we would love to have you join the community. You can sign up at our website to learn about our webinars, events and Slack channel. If you enjoyed today's music, you can check out my band it's the super fantastics on Spotify music. On behalf of the entire startup CPG team, thank you so much for listening and your support. See you next time.