The Startup CPG Podcast

00:03
Daniel Scharf
No pressure. Just recording. No pressure, but let's make it perfect. All right. There's Holly. What's up, Holly? How's it going? I think you're probably on mute still, but, yeah, sorry.

00:17
Holly Adrien
When you let me be a panelist, it kicked me off real quick, so I just had to join again. So thank you.

00:23
Daniel Scharf
Yes. It's very jarring on here we are. Well, yeah, it looks like we're getting a pretty good, healthy audience here. Usually we give people the kind of two minute grace period, but I think because we have so much good stuff to go through today, I'm going to suggest we actually just go for it and let people kind of catch up. I am so excited about this webinar, and actually, the reason that we're doing it is because I was applying to Kroger, and I was so baffled by all of the stuff that we had to choose. And these are hugely important decisions, and if you pick the wrong one, I mean, they're just drastic money implications. You might not do the right programs. Maybe you get discontinued because you didn't support it in the right way with the good programs.

01:10
Daniel Scharf
And so I was actually reaching out on the slack to see who knew about it. And then luckily, my friend Erin piped up and turns out she has a ton of expertise. I was like, we need to share this info because a lot of people are applying right now and don't know all of the options. They don't understand the implications of the different distribution options, and we certainly don't know what any of the marketing options mean or how to choose them as a very early brand. So that was the impetus for this.

01:33
Daniel Scharf
And then Aaron recruited Courtney, and we got Holly as well, big friend of the community, and have put, and so these amazing ladies have put together just one of the best presentation overviews to give you guys the 101 on Kroger, whether you're applying or trying to stay on shelf or just trying to get to know Kroger better. So I am going to stop talking and pass it over to the people who actually know the stuff. And then as we go through, if you guys want to submit any questions through the Q A, we have a lot to go through. So I'm going to try not to maybe necessarily stop for the kind of one offs, but if you type it in the Q A, sometimes we can kind of type and share those, but I'm going to try to address the broader questions.

02:14
Daniel Scharf
So with that, well, Erin, because you have the screen share, maybe I'll just pass it to you to kind of get started and I'll probably jump in with some questions along the way.

02:22
Erin Fasano
Perfect. So today we're going to introduce ourselves so you know who we are and then we'll just kind of run through what. Holly, thank you so much for being here. She's going to help us understand what Kroger's corporate priorities are and what they look for in new items. And then Courtney and I will kind of tag team the new items, sell in shopper marketing, some of those really nuts and bolts things. But before we do that, we should probably tell you who we are. I guess I'll go first since I'm already speaking. I've been in marketing and branding for 18 years and I've worked with Kroger on brands like Dole, Veggie, Craft Farm, Sagely, naturals. Actually, they were an early supporter of the brand and core foods where I work now and met Courtney. Maybe you go next.

03:02
Courtney Hodgdon
Hi everyone, my name is Courtney Hodgkin. I'm calling in from Cincinnati, Ohio, quite literally in Kroger's backyard. I live about five minutes from their headquarters. I've been working with Kroger in some capacity for the past ten years, most recently with Chobani and prior to that, Kellogg. Super excited to be here to talk with you all. I've met some really awesome people through this community and excited to give back a little my knowledge.

03:23
Holly Adrien
Hi everyone. I'm so excited to be here as well. Thank you for welcoming Daniel to events at Expo west and then at this opportunity with Courtney and Erin. So they're going to be the experts in terms of what the right communication is to all of you in terms of working with Kroger, but I've had the pleasure of working with Kroger for almost 18 years. The first eleven I was working with the data analytics part of Kroger, so Denham being 84 51, so I like to say I have that perspective of how that can bring value to the way you talk with Kroger. And then I was a baby category manager for a little bit about two years and so I was a category manager. So I can speak to some of the ways that we might think about things.

04:00
Holly Adrien
I worked on the digital merchandising team for about a year and a half and so I do have perspective about how we're working with pickup and delivery and how that translates. But today, as many of you that have met, my role specifically in strategy and innovation related to natural and organic. So I can give you perspective, at least in a lot of the way. We're thinking about natural, organic, and how I work with the business there and the considerations that a category manager has. But what we'll say is there's a lot in here about process and ways of working and things to be mindful of, but it's not a one size fits all. Everyone knows category managers might think differently, and we know people change desks. So hopefully this is a good start to the conversation of what to be aware of.

04:40
Erin Fasano
So with that, do you want to maybe take us through Kroger corporate priorities and maybe how to think through what a category manager might be looking for?

04:48
Holly Adrien
Yeah, and I'll keep it very high level because I think there's some of you're already aware as well as there's ways you can read about this online, as well as, I think, the nitty gritty that we're getting into. But just overall, in general, with Kroger, we're constantly working on striving for and going after market share, unit share, and really growing and keeping our customer base. So prior to Covid, through Covid, and now it's always trying to understand the best ways to meet our customers needs as their needs evolve, whether that's through what we deliver in store and online in our pickup and delivery solutions. So we're constantly working on, again, how do we maintain our share or grow it? And that is dependent on category level and department level.

05:36
Holly Adrien
And then I'm looking down at notes, sorry, just to make sure I hit on a few points here. So I think that's really key for you to understand is when you connect with us, a lot of the category managers are going to really want to understand how will your product and what you can do and bring to the table help us grow market share, unit share, and connect with our customers. And really importantly for all of us at Kroger, whenever we're creating our plans, we want to understand our customers and what customers are looking for and what customers in the market are looking for. But also really importantly for us is this dynamic of everything we need to do has to make it easier for our divisions and our stores. So we don't talk about it much.

06:16
Holly Adrien
But really, when you think about things of prioritization from maintaining a certain amount of products on shelf and the right packout and maybe not overwhelming with the number of items, because that makes it that much harder for store associates to make sure the store is stocked, that the tags are changed, et cetera. So everything we do, when we think about it, we're thinking about what's right for the customer. How do we meet their needs? And then part of the customer for us is also the in store division, associates and how do we think about them with decisions that we make and then related very much to the new item appointment and coming to know. I've met many of you and I have the luxury to meet folks in natural organic at Expo East, Expo west and different opportunities.

06:56
Holly Adrien
And what I try to do when it comes to natural and organic is be another advocate for natural and organic and natural organic brands, big and small. So I focus a lot on emerging brands and I want to be on top of trends in the industry with brands in categories, and then who's meeting those needs. And I say that specifically because even though some of you, if I'm behind, I'm very behind on email and I know there's some people on this call that I haven't emailed yet from Exo east is behind the scenes. I'm working on developing what the trends are, communicating that to category managers in advance, talking about you to the category of manager, suggesting you be invited to new EDM appointments, sharing the information you share with me with them.

07:37
Holly Adrien
So I just want to say, as an advocate of natural organic, relevantly, that's one of the priorities we think of when we think about innovation is that who is bringing something unique to the customer, and it has to be unique to not be another item, just the same as on the shelf. So I really say of anything else, you can walk away from what I would say today, and there's not much more I'd say, because Erin and Courtney are going to take it away. But really be clear about your point of differentiation and be honest with yourself what your true point of differentiation is to what's in the market today. Who are the customers that you would attract that's valuable to Kroger, that your product is going to meet that need, and I would say have support.

08:17
Holly Adrien
So unfortunately, all of us are lean, all of us across every part of our industry, that I can tell. And so it's very hard for category managers to have the additional time for an emerging brand who's never worked with Kroger before. As Courtney said, she has this knowledge. So I would say have partners that can help you on this journey and then be patient. So in terms of telling us what's unique about your product, how you grow the category, meet customer needs, how you want to work, to drive customers to our stores, also be patient, because things don't always happen quickly. And I can tell you, I've been on a journey with some brands over two and a half years, and maybe right now they're getting that opportunity to work with us.

08:59
Holly Adrien
So I'd say in terms of Kroger's priority, share units, market share, unit share, customer priority, and then we're looking for partners that will partner with us across that whole journey. I think that's all I'd have to say. Courtney and Erin. Yeah, Holly, that was great.

09:14
Courtney Hodgdon
And we really wanted Holly to cover off on that sort of big picture, because what Erin and I are going to get into is a little bit more transactional and a little bit of a disclaimer. All of you are probably in a different stage of your Kroger journey, so we hope this is applicable to most of you. And if it's a little redundant, we apologize for that. But in order to win at Kroger, the first thing you really need to understand are what are the necessary steps and points of information that you're going to need to actually submit to get a new item of.

09:41
Courtney Hodgdon
I'm kind of coming with more of a sales perspective, sales background, so I'm going to get into more of the new item selling process, how to create your selling story, and then Aaron will get into the shopper marketing component. So three specific considerations you really need to have well defined when you go into your new item appointment, is how does your product and or brand align with not only the grocery strategy that Holly just talked about, but also the category strategy. So oftentimes categories are going through what's called a three CM process, which is a customer centric category management process, which is a partnership between 84 51 and the Kroger category management team. And quite often it's really the big brands in your category that are driving a lot of those insights.

10:23
Courtney Hodgdon
So know the brands that you're kind of coming in to try to steal share from are really informing and help partnering with Kroger right now to drive what that three to five year strategy is for the category. So that's the first priority. The second, Holly already talked about the category and Kroger customer need. Why does Kroger need this item? What is your point of differentiation? And then number three, you absolutely must have some data when you're coming in to sell to Kroger. And it can't just be sort of like social impression data. I'd really encourage you to tap into some sort of third party data source so you really have a good understanding on some KPIs where you are already selling, even if it's a d to c business. So that let's get into the new item selling process.

11:02
Courtney Hodgdon
So before you're even considering Kroger, you should probably have a good idea about when they reset, how many times a year they reset. And if you don't know how to find that information, I can certainly direct you. But really, Kroger is operating eight months in advance, so I'm working with clients right now that are submitting for period five or June of 2024. So really long time frames. It's probably not a surprise for most of you who've been in this industry for over a year. So general process, I'm just going to kind of fly through this because I tend to talk too much. There's going to be a new item submission packet requested sort of general information that most of you have probably seen. After that, category managers will decide which companies they actually want to have a meeting with.

11:39
Courtney Hodgdon
If you don't get a meeting, it doesn't mean that you're not going to be considered. It's just that your information could be comprehensive enough. Or like Holly said, maybe you're in year two and a half of your journey and they kind of already have talked to you before. Roughly six months until the reset, you're going to get assortment decisions shared. I've seen some category managers share entire category decisions. What was accepted, what's going through a change, what's being deleted. I've seen others just share your decisions. And another disclaimer, not every category manager is the same. Everyone operates a little bit differently, everyone shares a little bit differently. So very important to know you're not always going to get this sort of gold standard that you may expect five months until reset.

12:18
Courtney Hodgdon
You're going to need to submit all of your items into the necessary systems, and we'll get into that a little bit later. You're not going to get your store counts until about two months before the reset. So a lot of you guys, this may be your first huge launch. You're going to know that the visions you're launching to about six months, but you're going to have to work with your network and or your broker or sales lead to really understand what that could mean in terms of store counts. And then really about one month will reset. You're going to get your awesome pos that you've been waiting for and sort of a dream for everyone. Okay, must have info. Again, compelling data. We've already talked about this comprehensive product info.

12:53
Courtney Hodgdon
Please do not consider Kroger until you really have all of your ducks in a row. And that's not even me. I don't even work for Kroger. But I would say if you don't have your ducks in your row, you're not going to be considered legitimate. So that means costing specs, tie highs, pickup versus delivery allowances, all of your imagery. If you have shelf ready packaging, these are all things that Kroger wants to know while you're submitting. Because things like shelf ready packaging can make and break you in another emerging brand because you're easier to get on the shelf. And lastly, I can't emphasize this enough, your Kroger specific support plan. So things like owned social, that's not different. So what are you going to be doing at Kroger that's going to help Kroger get more households, get Kroger share.

13:34
Courtney Hodgdon
So basically specific dollars that are unique to Kroger and that are not benefiting your brand in total, or at least above and beyond. Next slide. Okay, so everything with Kroger is not black and white, like I've said. And I've talked to a lot of emerging brands who maybe have a really great hit at like a Fred Meyer or Ralph because you've either met the divisional lead or you're super relevant in that local region. So everyone always asks me, how do I get into Kroger? Well, there's really two avenues. The, I would say most formal and also the biggest reach is always going to come from talking to someone at what Kroger refers to as the go or the general office.

14:11
Courtney Hodgdon
So these are category managers that either sit in Cincinnati, Ohio and or Portland, Oregon, which is sort of like legacy, Fred Meyer folks that really are in charge of setting assortment decisions, and basically what gets on the planogram for the whole enterprise, which are all the Kroger banners out, you know, Fred, QFC, Ralph Smith fries, basically anything except for Harris Teeter, which operates completely separately than the rest of Kroger. And there's two big types of resets. There's something that's called an update, which is typically the big reset for the year. And every year, Kroger plans specific hours dedicated to each of these resets. So, for example, if they know a major manufacturer is coming with some really huge innovation, they may actually ask for more hours for their set to be reset for that next year.

15:01
Courtney Hodgdon
The other type of reset controlled by the general office is what's called an NII. And this is a smaller, touch lighter reset, typically where it's like a one in, one out. It doesn't necessarily mean you can't get brand new distribution if you don't already have something in there. But just know it's harder to get items in when it's an NII versus a full compass update. The other avenue, which most of you are probably more familiar with, is the sort of divisional aspect. And again, category managers are going to vary in how much they really liaison with these divisions and or the banners. So let's say you talk to someone at Ralph's and they really love your product.

15:36
Courtney Hodgdon
The merchandising lead at Ralph may very well give you sort of like an endorsement or recommendation to the general office category manager to be put on the pog. You could also get into Ralph through sort of like a more, I'll call it rogue or scrappy way, which is kind of through the back door and you may get a display. So just know that there's not this sort of one size fits all strategy. And if you have the opportunity to talk to anyone at Kroger, obviously it's a huge blessing. But if you work with someone more formally, like a know, a sales consultant, they're probably going to go through the general office route.

16:10
Daniel Scharf
Did you have something to add, Holly? I see your hand raised.

16:13
Holly Adrien
Yeah, I just wanted to add to that because I didn't even say so. I'm based at Geo, and again, when it comes to national organic, that's one of the exact points is I work with category managers and divisions to help bridge that gap. So for those of you that might talk with Cassandra Ralph, for example, she is such a wonderful advocate. Weekly I get at least two to three emails where she's reaching out to a category manager to say something about your brand, here's this great opportunity could you please consider for Ralph's on the next update, while she might already put you in a program specific to how she's bringing you in through DPI or Keihi, whatever that might be, right. So just know. As Courtney said, while it truly is not one size fits all, but it depends on how someone works.

16:55
Holly Adrien
So it's really important to just be clearing your communication and know that someone might see your communication too. So if you're talking with Geo and the division, it's not bad to make that right. Like, I've also seen a negative way of folks that might run brokers or such and try to do things behind the scenes. Rogue is great if a division wants it, but I think you can also ruffle feathers if you don't just communicate freely and openly just because everyone manages things differently. What I would say it is pretty challenging to be very clear what Courtney said. Let's just say your update is taking place next August. It's really hard if you're off cycle. Let's actually say it differently.

17:34
Holly Adrien
Let's say something just reset in August and you're trying right now to talk to the CM and you send them a note every other week. Unfortunately, it's not a helpful time, and that could really put, so I'd say really connect with the people in the industry to support. Like Courtney said, that can help you think about the right time to communicate because unfortunately, an off time communication can actually set you up to have more challenges with a category manager fighting the constant fires and the most important priorities at a time. And if they've just reset, now's not the right time to maybe hound them every week with an email. And I see that. So I just want to say, definitely use your partners in the industry of what might be a good time for communication.

18:12
Daniel Scharf
Maybe I can add from my personal experience, I mean, specifically Cassandra, you mentioned I was super lucky to meet her at an under the radar trade show in California, and she became an advocate for the brand. She loved our social mission and was interested in kind of these off the grid opportunities where they have like, white space display type stuff you can go after. But then also she did send a request into the national category manager because of her and because I had met some other banners at the UNFI show, then all of that groundswell got me a meeting with the category manager. So for me, for an early brand, I would hit absolutely every angle. And if you work with a broker who tells you not to do. No, no. Just submit centrally, and that's it. Don't believe them. Go around them.

18:57
Daniel Scharf
Go directly to people. Hit up Holly on LinkedIn. Sorry, but hit up. Do Kroger first pitch at the Expos. Amazing opportunity just to go stand in line. That'll separate you from the people who aren't willing to get up early and go wait in line to meet really important Kroger people. So any. Courtney, did I miss any tactics?

19:17
Courtney Hodgdon
No. I love you. You have to stand out, right? And it's like persistence prevails when all else fails.

19:25
Daniel Scharf
All right, awesome.

19:27
Courtney Hodgdon
Okay, so this is pretty fundamental, guys. You probably know this, but if you want to set your brand apart at Kroger, you really need to know your shopper. So Kroger is a massive company, and they have stores that range from very sort of value or community stores up to very upscale. But your brand is not going to be relevant for everyone. So know your shopper, and by knowing your shopper, you're going to want to know where to pitch at Kroger, you're not going to get ten items enterprise wide. So if you have a better for you brand that has like around a $10 price point, please go after the west where people are used to spending more money.

20:03
Courtney Hodgdon
I mean, growing up in Cincinnati, I think one of my biggest strong points is that working with people in New York and Southern California, I'm like, guys, I have a dual income household and I'm not paying for this product. So just know that Kroger is really everyone and that it may not best to kind of throw your product everywhere because you really want to be successful right off the bat. Merchandising placement. Know Kroger stores and where your product fits best. If you haven't been at a Kroger store and if you haven't been like in a Kroger banner versus a Fred Meyer, you really need to go in and see what's out there. Before pitching, Holly already mentioned being able to grow the category. But I really want touch on this last one, the competitive landscape.

20:41
Courtney Hodgdon
So Kroger's number one priority this year, as Holly said, is to grow market share. So coming in with a perspective on how other retailers are operating in your space versus what Kroger is doing is really going to be the most important information you can bring to the table. Is Kroger losing share? Does Kroger carry ten items, whereas Walmart carries 20 items? And I will also say, and Holly would love your perspective here, Kroger is more concerned with the Walmart, the Aldi's, I would say the bigger conventional players. And if you're doing great in the natural channel, that's great. But I would say not really top of mind for Kroger.

21:16
Holly Adrien
And to build on that, I think that's perfect. That's what I was going to say is, like you mentioned, types of shoppers. So just for perspective, with our shoppers, we look at how sensitive they are to price. So looking at all our shoppers, we have our least price sensitive shoppers to our very price sensitive shoppers. And then in the middle, it's just price sensitive. So 70% of our customers are just in the middle, meaning they might buy some products like always on deal or the entry point. Maybe it's our think about natural, organic, simple truth, for example. Then we have 15% of our customers on those outliers, whether they're very price sensitive or least price sensitive. So one thing we do is, like Courtney said perfectly. We have community stores, which is all based on the type of shoppers, right?

21:54
Holly Adrien
So there might be more very price sensitive shoppers than community stores to our upscale stores, where we have more higher indexing, least price sensitive shoppers, but all of them have mainstream. So exactly. To Courtney's point, we are looking at our entire competitive set and really great. As our CMO was talking last week at a meeting and you mentioned, we're even looking know those non traditional competitors, but how they merchandise. But in terms of share, we are looking at everybody. And especially for natural organic, what I would say is that's where you could be focused. Like this is the type of customer we're going after. These are the markets we tend to do well in, whether it's a natural channel or more mainstream.

22:39
Holly Adrien
But help us even with the environment, because what Courtney said so well is while you're coming to us about placement, you can also be specific. And it goes a long way to say, you know, what we believe would be most successful if we start at Fred Meyer and then as well as maybe in Mariano's in Chicago, based on where we know our shoppers are, and we like to prove ourselves to you and then you grow. And so I think it's really important to note that whether it's upscale store and additionally, our category managers are now well versed in the idea that we have supernatural stores natural leaning. So it comes to natural organic. That's another way to think about it. It might be a mainstream store, but it could be a more natural and organic store.

23:18
Holly Adrien
And that's another good suggestion as you're taking your information, if you sit in that space, is to say you could go to more places, but here's where you might recommend you start.

23:30
Courtney Hodgdon
Awesome. Thanks. Everyone's like least favorite subject, but just some system considerations to know. You must be familiar with one world sync if you want to be serious about Kroger. So this is basically a system that captures sort of all of the official specs of your product, as well as Kroger specific attributes such as claims, nutritional facts, et cetera. So before you can even get an item accepted, you do have to have what's called an item maintenance board or an IMF submitted. The second requirement from a system perspective would be EDI. So this is an interchange that basically facilitates purchase orders and invoicing between you. You probably have to hire sort of a third party to manage it, like FPS or whoever and Kroger. And then thirdly, 84 51, which is Kroger's data arm.

24:21
Courtney Hodgdon
In addition to all the shopper marketing stuff that Aaron will talk about, they also really drive all of the POS and shopper data that is available to you guys to utilize. I think this is my last slide before, you know, you probably already know most of this again, but how? I always think about building a good selling story, and I have seen a lot of actually that don't hit on these points. So it's all rooted in what Holly said. So what is the shop or consumer insight that your product is aiming to deliver upon? Is it better for you? Is it a brand new category, et cetera? And again, understand how that category operates at Kroger. Is the category doing well? Is it declining? Is it losing share?

25:04
Courtney Hodgdon
Again, compare the category at Kroger to relevant competitors and then demonstrate how your product fits that unmet need, both for the shopper as well as the opportunity at Kroger. And then lastly, elevate and customize for Kroger. So the assortment for those of you who've worked at big CBG in the like, what is your amp strategy? So what is your assortment? What is your merchandising? What is your pricing? What is your shelving strategy specific to Kroger? And then how are you going to drive trial and awareness? And I think that's a good segue into what Aaron is going to talk.

25:34
Erin Fasano
Sure. So at Kroger, there are a lot of opportunities for you to talk about your brand, leveraging some of that 84 51 data, because that's really built into how they communicate to their own shoppers. So you'll hear this acronym in a lot, BCC. That means best customer communication. There are more than these pictured here, but these are, I would say, the three most common lcms. That means loyal customer mailer. This is literally an envelope that gets mailed to your home with coupons, but they're all customized based on the way that the shopper shops. And so this is definitely something that you would want to consider including on a proposal to Kroger as you're approaching them for selection. And. Go ahead, Holly. Oh, you're on mute.

26:15
Holly Adrien
Just a quick comment. As you mentioned, it's still called a mailer, but luckily these are served digitally as well. So I received mine digitally. So you don't think we're old school? Just say we only mail because that's come up recently.

26:27
Courtney Hodgdon
A lot. Yeah.

26:29
Erin Fasano
And then my mag is a magazine, again, customized to the shopper. And this is an opportunity for you to do more of a traditional print ad style. You can also include coupons and then new at Kroger. This is an opportunity only for brands surprised that are new at Kroger. But it's a great way for you as a new brand to really maximize your participation and in leveraging where Kroger's data sort of crosses over with marketing. So these are all things that you'd want to consider on your plan. And Courtney and I actually put included in here a plan that we built together for a brand that we partner on. So you can kind of see how we sprinkle in these types of programs around all of the other sort of at shelf marketing.

27:10
Daniel Scharf
How do you know how much you need to spend on each of these things? Or how much to offer for a newer brand?

27:17
Erin Fasano
Yes, I think in terms of what the offer might be or the discount might be, we'll start there. And then, Courtney, maybe you can talk to the frequency. My sort of mental rule of thumb for couponing is always 20% at least. And then you can go more or less, sort of depending on what your product is and whether or not that feels like a value. Hopefully you've probably learned in a past life or at a different customer what is going to deliver the best redemption for you. And then, Courtney, maybe you can speak to how frequently you should be including these in your annual plans.

27:46
Courtney Hodgdon
Right, understanding that there's always a fixed amount, a fixed budget of what you can spend. I, coming from the sales side, would always have to prioritize promotionally investing before you even tap into marketing. So I think that's important to mention just because obviously dollars are always very lean. So you absolutely must promote at Kroger in order to be successful. At least a 15% trade rate, which is the minimum investment to even get a sale tag. So I would always be planning 15% to 20% trade. And then in terms of marketing dollars, I don't have a percentage to recommend you. And I think it's obviously going to vary based on the number of skus and the distribution. At least fifty k, I would say year one. And that's like through BCC digital coupon, KPMS, and then sort of other tactics that Aaron would go through.

28:30
Daniel Scharf
When you submit to Kroger initially, I think in the first thing you can basically just check the things you're interested in without committing to a certain amount. So you could say all of these things, then maybe find out what kind of distribution they're actually thinking about for you and then come back with a refined proposal. Is that right?

28:44
Courtney Hodgdon
I would. I would customize your submission based on what you're asking for. So if you're asking for three divisions, I would be very specific and say, I want to do new at Kroger because you can't even do these other two until you have loyalty established. And then I want to do digital coupons for pulses. I would actually build out your financial model and submit that specific plan because then they know you're serious.

29:09
Holly Adrien
I think it's a great recommendation to at least say where you lean in. And I would say the LCM is the first one, the loyal customer mailing. While you need to build loyalty, that happens quarterly. So for perspective, once you build that should be a quarterly investment as like table stakes of what we might expect at Kroger beyond a traditional TPR. Again, and if you're in limited distribution, not in full stores, there are certain things we get into in the next pages that you might not be able to participate in based on thresholds. But LCMs, again, is the kind of table stakes of what an expectation might be once you build your loyalty and then continue to grow it at Kroger. Because these are specific mailings for our loyal customers to make that more clear.

29:46
Holly Adrien
And the value of someone that's engaged with us versus trying to just acquire new households is tenfold. But the perspective as to why these programs.

29:56
Erin Fasano
And then KPM is an acronym for Kroger precision Marketing. This effectively baskets all of the digital offerings. There are a bunch of ways to advertise basically on kroger.com or in the various banner apps search and is I sort of describe as like the Google query results. So this is like when your ad basically pops to the top. So it's a sponsored ad. Basket builder is more specific to placements. So versus popping up when there is a query. And this is like on the homepage or on a product page. So it's just a different name for a very similar ad placement that's just not query related. POA is an acronym for targeted on site ad. And this is basically a banner placement where you can control some of the.

30:43
Erin Fasano
Also through Courtney and I have kind of done a bunch of these together and what we've learned over time is that these actually perform best when you attach an offer to it. So not just Courtney and I work together on the core Foods brand, so not just core bars taste good, buy them. It's core Foods taste good, save the dollar off now. And then you click basically to an ad result that looks like this, where you can clip the coupon directly to your Ralph's or Kroger app. And so Inmar powers these coupons for you. And so what we have sort of found is that this is a great way to drive the awareness and then make sure that it converts to a conversion in the store. But you can also run these coupons without including the banner ad.

31:25
Erin Fasano
You can just do the coupon and then other tactics that are sort of not purchased through Kroger, but you can place inside of Kroger. Shelf tags are, I would say, a fairly efficient way to make your shelf tag look bigger and give you a little bit more presence. There are third parties like Bestcom who executed these. This item was new at Kroger, and so for a limited window, it's actually new. And so you can place these little tags. Just a great way to get the consumer, the shopper, when she's standing in front of the shelf, to draw her eye to your product. A more expensive option for that would be a placement of pop like this. This is a shelf banner. This was executed through Neptune, who is authorized inside of Kroger. So you basically execute the whole program through the third party.

32:07
Erin Fasano
They place it for you, but then it is sort of a bigger, brighter way to, again, draw eyes and then drive to that conversion. You can also place coupons on these types of these big shelf banners. There's all sort of different offerings that are available. Those big floor talks you might see, or little coupon machines. Neptune has sort of a wide gamut of options. However, they do get quite expensive. So I sort of built this as, like, the must dos. That's the LCMs. The next thing out you have to do is the KPM. The next thing out? As your budget grows bigger and your business grows bigger, maybe some things like.

32:39
Daniel Scharf
This, and anyone can do that kind of stuff, or you need special approval from your buyer, or can you kind of put whatever you want on the tag, or it has to get approved by Neptune or the buyer.

32:49
Erin Fasano
So typically, you do not need to get buyer approval. However, there are some category specifics. So, like, for example, when we launched, when I was working at Sagely Natural, that's sagely naturals, that was a CBD brand, and there were, like, specific rules for that category. So I think if you were in a category where you know that there's special rules, I assume alcohol probably had special rules, but generally you don't need special permission in terms of very. They're basically templates that have already been pre approved by Kroger. So you just plop your brand in and you sort of play within that template. And then I included some messaging best practices just as you're designing these pieces, like you're designing your mymag ad. When a shopper is in the store, your goal is to connect whatever your placement is with your product.

33:33
Erin Fasano
So you want to make sure your brand name is on your pop, make sure it's the same logo. A lot of times I'll include the literal package so that if she sees the banner, she sees my bar and then she looks at the shelf, it's very easy for her. I also always recommend that you think about those same reasons to believe that you told the buyer those should end up on your placements as well. So if it's organic, no sugar added, whatever those things are, that are your points of differentiation that are going to drive the shopper to be interested. You'll want to include those, if it's possible, on the messaging and then of course the call to action to shop.

34:04
Erin Fasano
Whereas once you get outside the store and you're maybe in the my magazine ad, for example, again, you'll want that package in the ad so she knows what to look for. You'll want those same reasons to believe. I always recommend that you include where your product is. Know I sell nutrition bars, but they're refrigerated. So I have to make sure that the shopper knows to go to the right place in her Ralph's or her Kroger. I include the price or if there's a discount, sort of depends if there's a coupon and then again a call to action, make sure and now go buy it or whatever makes sense for your brand. So with that, there's also courtney kind of referenced all the trade programs that you have to do and she's going touch on that now and then.

34:43
Erin Fasano
I think you have the example plan in this section as well, right?

34:47
Courtney Hodgdon
I already mentioned that it's absolutely necessary to promote at Kroger. I think most of those 70% and especially the lower 15% are very much conditioned to buy products on deal at Kroger. And there's several different ways you'll partner with the category management team to execute those. What is the most effective and highest lift promotions, in my opinion, are when you're part of the sales plan. Those are typically events called buy five, save five, buy six, save three. The five x digital events, which are basically the net price of the digital coupon, will be displayed on shelf and then locked in low prices, which are basically there to combat everyday low price competitive players. There are thresholds that exist in order for you to participate in the sales plan events. If you're in, I'll call 1000 plus stores.

35:36
Courtney Hodgdon
You're going to need to be generating at least $25,000 in retail sales a week in the natural foods categories. And if you're in a mainstream commodity or category, it's $50,000 divisional. There's nuances. So a huge strategy at core was sort of shifting away from tprs and getting in these events, and we doubled our velocities just because Kroger shoppers are conditioned to buy on deal. There are ways to promote that I would say are non sales plan. So a yellow tag, a roller, an everyday low cost. It's basically a 15% investment off your list cost in order to get a yellow tag. And it's usually a four week minimum time frame. I will say you'll get pushback on some types of products if you're not a super elastic or there's not going to be a great response to a price reduction of your product.

36:24
Courtney Hodgdon
So there is a tag and there's labor costs associated with these promotions. So Kroger really wants to make sure that it's going to be worth it for them to print these tags and for them to have their store in place. Put the tags up when you invest in the price. Holly, it looks like you want to.

36:38
Holly Adrien
Add something to build on that. Courtney, you mentioned four weeks, et cetera. So if you are in fewer divisions and fewer stores, it might be a minimum of twelve weeks at one time of running a TPR. So I think that's a great consideration as you're building a plan, you might need to have eight to ten weeks at 1.1 time of the year, and another if you're in a minimal number of stores. And we just don't want to change tags constantly. So, something to consider if you're not, again, meeting thresholds to be in mega or five X Digital, a TPR is a great way to just get some attention to your brand. But it's more than four weeks if you're in just a few divisions and a few stores.

37:20
Courtney Hodgdon
Thank you. And planning for this, just like everything at Kroger, occurs very far out. So with some of my, we're. Most of them were planning period three, which is April, some are planning period two. And if you miss those timeframes, you basically are locked out of promotions. So very important to sort of be ahead of the game. And if you're not in Kroger yet I would encourage you to go to kroger.com on a weekly basis. Like the weekly ad will drop either Tuesday or Wednesday. See what your competitors are doing, how often they're promoting, how deep they're promoting. Because when you launch, you're going to need to be expected to do as much if not more in order to be competitive. And that's a way to be scrappy without having data.

37:59
Courtney Hodgdon
Anyone can go to a.com website and see what the price is for any given product. This is an example. I would encourage you guys, whether it's yourself or your broker or whoever, to kind of keep a calendar that layers promotional activity with your shopper marketing activity. Category managers are very conditioned to understanding this type of summary where you're sort know what is your price, what is your promotion, what are you lapping from year ago and how are you supporting it with Kroger specific activity as well as some national activations that you may be. You know, it's great to talk about these marketing know with words, but I'm such a visual person. So this know just some pictures.

38:43
Courtney Hodgdon
To put it into perspective on some activations that Aaron and I partnered on this, you know, at the very top level, there were posts on LinkedIn, but then we even got Kroger specific with billboards. Outside of Ralph's always engaged in product listing ads. Now that's on the Kroger ad platform for those of you who are familiar with promote IQ. And then lastly, the sort of lower funnel. This is a visual of what the LCM looks like. We did digital coupon partnerships where you buy mush, you get a free bar and vice versa. And the reason, look, there's always going to be opportunities to make this better, but we basically doubled our velocities and kept our distribution year over year. So we're very proud of this. Everyone's favorite topic, supply chain. Go ahead.

39:28
Daniel Scharf
Oh, I just want to mention to everybody, this is amazing, by the way. Thank you guys. This stuff is so helpful. We will share the recording of this afterwards on our vimeo. Just so in case anyone's like trying to frantically write it all down.

39:38
Erin Fasano
Just want to mention.

39:42
Courtney Hodgdon
Okay, so supply chain. So there are so many different ways to actually get your products in the doors of Kroger. So I'm going to cover it very high level. But no, this varies widely based on your category. So I would say this is applicable to frozen, refrigerated, shelf stable. And then when you get into the whole distributor DSD network, it's going to be kind of crazy, especially for beverage. So I would say for the highest volume, fast moving skus, you will likely be awarded local Kroger DC distribution. So that basically means a Kroger distribution center within a similar geography of most of the stores. And there will also be a very significant slotting charge for that fee if you get national distribution, call it 2200 stores plus, in every Kroger division, roughly $150,000 slotting.

40:33
Courtney Hodgdon
Now, there will be a tremendous ROI if you actually get that distribution. So please know, don't be scared of that money. Okay, now, most of you are going to fall into one of these middle two buckets. So consolidated or regional Kroger dcs. So Kroger has, I would say, dcs that are kind of more centrally located, that it's more of like a spoken wheel model. So lower volume items where everything is shipped. There's one in Mount Zion, Kentucky, which is 20 minutes south of here. Everything is shipped there. And then Kroger basically has a very sophisticated supply chain that then branches out from that one location to service eight different Kroger divisions. So this is more likely what you're going after. Mount Zion is a shelf stable example.

41:17
Courtney Hodgdon
There are also consolidated frozen warehouses where Kroger partners with third party partners like iwi or Maricold, that basically get product out from your cold storage to several different Kroger divisions at a time. Similarly, refrigerated. CIW is an acronym you might have heard that's a consolidated warehouse in Shelbyville, Indiana, or in Atlanta. So, again, it's all sort of this medium to lower volume items that are still getting Kroger distribution, but not as fast moving. And Kroger replenishment, or buyers are the ones that write pos for these types of models. Okay, then we get into the DSD or distributor partnership. And, Holly, you could chime in here, but I would say Kroger has really leaned into these options tremendously over the past five to ten years.

42:03
Courtney Hodgdon
It was very rare that I had to work with a DSD partner, and now it's almost like a sure bet, at least in one division. So these are people like DPI, Kehi, Unfi, who you guys partner with on your natural accounts to basically get your product into Kroger warehouses and or stores, depending on what kind of model they operate in that division. And then lastly, there's this sort of direct ship option, which if you've ever shopped on Kroger.com, which I hope you have, there is a ship program, which basically is fulfillment that you can either send directly to consumers and or there's kind of a partnership here with Vitacost is a whole new other opportunity we haven't talked about.

42:48
Courtney Hodgdon
That's sort of another more like, ship e commerce site that you could participate in if you don't have distribution in the stores, I would encourage you to go after Vitacost. Okay. So that was a lot. I'm, like, rushing because I want to make sure we have time for questions. Just no slotting for those last three. And likely it would be a combination of the both. So I would always plan a little slotting.

43:08
Daniel Scharf
Just a quick question on that. Sure. Yeah. Thank you. Courtney, just because you mentioned Vitacost, do you mind explaining what Vitacost is? And also, we had a question from somebody about Harris Teeter as well. Do you mind? And maybe Holly can chime in on just.

43:22
Courtney Hodgdon
I think Holly might do better justice for Vitacost.

43:26
Holly Adrien
Thanks for mentioning Courtney. So that's an entire part of Kroger that is just a subsidiary that is focused only on natural, organic, non refrigerated frozen foods. Today, nothing fresh, but it is natural, organic products, and they're managed separately. So we have different category managers that are specifically on the vitacost business, but we have three fulfillment centers for Vitacost. And some items that might go through unify or Khee are also going to those distribution centers. But then the ship, which Courtney mentioned, there's an entire marketplace, so there are sellers that there's different programs there. And again, it's different people managing that than your category manager that's in store.

44:07
Holly Adrien
So just for perspective, when there's questions for Vitacos and then as well as for marketplace, for ship to home, likely a category manager or someone like me might put you in touch with people specifically working on that business day to day. And then you mentioned Harris Teeter. What was the question? Did you want me just.

44:26
Daniel Scharf
I think people's understanding is that Harris Teeter is, like, part of Kroger. But does it, like, do they make their decisions separately? Can you approach them directly? Does it influence trying to get broader Kroger distribution?

44:37
Holly Adrien
Oh, yeah, I think I get that question, like, weekly. But, yeah, Harris Teeter makes completely independent of decisions, and so they also manage it differently. So their category managers, for example, I'm friends with a few, and luckily enough to get to know them at events in the industry, and then we become friends. We bounce ideas off of each other, talk about brands with each other, et cetera. But they have even bigger desks than the category managers at Kroger. So let's say my friend Rebecca used to manage. Becca Bellino used to manage bag snacks, but for her, it was bag snacks, popcorn, meat snacks, cookies, crackers. And then in the Kroger organization, there are five people doing, five category managers that would represent those categories, for example.

45:18
Holly Adrien
But, yeah, so you can go directly to Harris Teeter separately, and they actually lean in very heavily with Unfi based on the fact of their lean and as well as their distribution is different than ours in terms of warehouse. But what I will say, it's really great when folks tell the story. There are some brands that are at Harris Teeter right now that I would love to get into Kroger in various ways. And so what I love is for folks to share that story with us, like, how have you performed at Harris Teeter, where have you engaged, et cetera, and then vice versa.

45:47
Holly Adrien
So there are folks that are using data, if you've launched at Kroger, that they can share with Harris Teeter now, the CMS at individual levels and directors might not always talk, but again, if you're in the natural, organic space, happy to connect with folks in that space. Really great team down at Harris, Peter, that they're doing some cool things down there.

46:04
Daniel Scharf
Awesome. And just a plug for the UNFI team. I know for me, like getting into Vitacost Unfi person made the whole thing happen. I don't even think I ever heard who the actual Vitacost person was. Unfi just did the whole thing. So really encourage everybody. Distributor reps really can help you a ton, especially with Kroger. They are sometimes, like best friends with a buyer. I know. I mean, DPI was true with also I know they'll be going into next question. So Sasha was asking, where do you find the category review calendar? Because for me, it was like we had a broker, but we would just have to ask them. And then all of a sudden we would get an email from the category manager that said it's due in a.

46:45
Daniel Scharf
How do you, how can you actually get a handle on this thing and get ahead of the game? So you have your plan ready to go before the panic button hits?

46:52
Courtney Hodgdon
Yeah.

46:52
Holly Adrien
Unfortunately, like Courtney said it, while everyone just thinks differently for their category, what I would say is we have one right now for 2024. And in theory, anyone that supports your business, whether it's a sales support and or broker, should be able to get that calendar, but it changes weekly or every other week. I'll get an update because as Courtney mentioned earlier, she use it in the guise of let's say there's a major brand that has a relaunch and their category manager is asking for more hours. I'll put it back in terms of strategy. So that category manager is thinking for my category to grow and that's mainstream and natural, I'm going to take this 32 foot space and I'm going to tweak XYZ.

47:31
Holly Adrien
So during this year in the summer, we had to submit, or CMS had to submit, what they're really trying to achieve next year in their categories and what might they need in terms of hours for the store, as Courtney said? So right now there's one for 2024, but I just received this new one last week, which means there might have been a category that slightly moved. Generally we know when the categories are, there might be slight movements. So I can't remember when 2024 was published, but you should have it now knowing that it could change slightly.

48:06
Erin Fasano
No, I have a little trick too. You can usually tell when a tag was printed. If you go to the shelf that you want to be on and you look at the tag, there's often like a little date on it. And if all the tags have the same date, you can kind of surmise, okay, this probably was because this was when it was reset, and then you could probably guess that it'll be roughly the same time the next year. So that's not like a rule at all. Holly, to your point, things are changing constantly. But if you have no idea when frozen fruit is resetting, you may be able to give yourself a clue by checking when the tags were printed.

48:39
Holly Adrien
That's such an awesome tip. Thank you for saying that. That should be on a slide somewhere.

48:43
Courtney Hodgdon
And I would say some of the.

48:44
Holly Adrien
Biggest categories have two updates a year. So like bag snacks, for example. That will be twice, but the majority of categories might be one time a year. That's a big update. And maybe an NiI. So it really depends on the size of the category.

48:59
Daniel Scharf
Awesome. And yeah, I mean, if you guys can share anything, even if it's subject to updates with us, we will blast it out to everybody here on the startup CPG slack. Great, cool.

49:08
Holly Adrien
I'll send that. After the one I got last week, I'll send that.

49:12
Daniel Scharf
Awesome. Thank. That would be amazing. Thank you. Okay, so another question we've gotten. Someone said, hey, I'm actually on shelf. And the performance is like, okay, how could I use some of this info that you guys have just presented, which is incredible, to maybe try to convince them to give me another chance or to stay on shelf.

49:29
Courtney Hodgdon
Anything in particular would say the quickest turnaround time. Things you can do are digital coupons and product listing ads. So the most effective tool typically to start driving velocity is price. So I would say those are the things you should do now and then why are you not moving or why are you underperforming versus the category? And you'd have to kind of get into, is it a branding issue, is it a packaging issue, is it a placement issue, is it a promotional issue? And that's like a whole rabbit hole.

50:05
Holly Adrien
Well, I'd say look into the reach into what data assets you have available to say. Is it in certain areas specifically that you're not doing well, whether it's, again, the community, mainstream upscale stores and their markets? Because let's just say that it could be a factor. Is DSD not helping so much get you on the shelf in certain markets and others, I've seen that to be true. As a challenge. What I will say is, please do not go back to your category manager and say, well, you put me on the bottom shelf. I can't tell you how many brands have only been in store for four weeks, and they are saying, well, if you move me up a shelf, I'll get more attention. And I don't think that's the right time.

50:46
Holly Adrien
It's a few weeks on the shelf, as you've barely been selling to tell that story. Right. So what can you do to drive awareness of your brand, no matter where you are on the shelf?

50:55
Erin Fasano
Yeah. And I can build on that as well. One of the reasons why we executed the partnership with Mush that Courtney showed is that we knew that mush and our bar were merchandise next to each other and were also unique baskets of people. And so we wanted to leverage each other's consumers. So perhaps there's a smart partnership that you can execute that will help you tap into another brand's following and maybe vice versa. And I just want to reiterate what Courtney said. She sort of casually mentioned price, but we have learned, I would say, on more than one occasion, with more than one product that's moved from natural to mainstream, which Kroger is more mainstream, that obviously the same price, or maybe it's not obvious, but the same price might not work.

51:42
Erin Fasano
And so you really have to, I think, be honest with yourself about your own margins and the margin that Kroger is expecting and what price the consumer is willing to pay inside the Kroger store, because you may need to consider whether or not you can take a pricing action. And if your buyer would support that.

51:56
Daniel Scharf
Very good. Thank you. And then a couple of questions we've got in are around. I think the promo plan specifically, like, hey, we don't have unlimited money. Do they have limits on promotions? And conversely, could we start with a certain promo plan and then try to ramp it up? Hopefully the category manager understands. We need to understand the ROI and kind of build from there. Any tips on that?

52:20
Courtney Hodgdon
My perspective is that it's all about the differentiation of your product. If it's super compelling and it's really hot, you might not need to promote at all. But as a baseline, I would expect to do what you're observing in the category. You should absolutely not be promoting. I would say, more than half the year, because then I think your pricing structure is kind of all wonky. So I don't think there's a one size fits all answer. I don't know. Anyone else have thoughts?

52:50
Holly Adrien
I look to you in terms of how you grow other brands, but I do think, like I said, you're not going to be able to just jump right in, most likely, and get to a mega or five x event. So I think trying on a TPR and I think that honest communication is if you're selling elsewhere, like this has worked for us elsewhere, you want to give it a shot, go evaluate it, analyze the performance, and then know how you could pivot. I also think really highly of just digital coupons, especially if we're in the natural, organic space that we know our customers are shopping and pickup and delivery at a higher rate than just total store. And we have people engaging in that space.

53:26
Holly Adrien
So it might be a great thing to also try out a digital coupon for perspective, understanding who's engaging and what might that drive?

53:34
Erin Fasano
Yeah, I was going to build on that. Digital coupons are also very easy to manage the budget on. Like, you set a cap and then you don't exceed the cap. And so they're sort of a useful tool, particularly if you're in fewer stores, because it's very difficult to drive awareness of your product in Kroger if you're not in all the Kroger's. So it is a helpful way to ensure that you're sort of, again, matching the location that you're in, that you're actually available with the shopper who's going to be in that store.

54:02
Daniel Scharf
All right, so, data question. So for, let's say you're on shelf trying to understand your data, people have asked what's out there that you can use to understand how you're doing on shelves sales velocity. I know 84 51 is one option. Maybe you guys can give like ballpark, what does that cost depending on stores you're in? And then I know in the past IRI actually had an exclusive on Kroger data specifically. So I don't know if that's still true. Do any of you guys want to comment overall on data?

54:33
Erin Fasano
Sure.

54:33
Courtney Hodgdon
So if your brand drives more than a million dollars of retail sales at Kroger, you're going to be required to do a direct partnership with 84 51, which for the lowest level package is about $8,000 a year. If you are sub a million dollars, you can leverage and you want to hire a broker, you can partner through them and the cost is $4,800. And brokers typically bill you back for that. And that's the bare minimum from 84 51, which is the most valuable data because it includes on demand, which is straight POS data, as well as 84 51, which is loyalty card data, including sort of like unique 84 51 attributes. Sometimes at silver level, you start getting like shopper demographics and things like that.

55:16
Courtney Hodgdon
And I would say like IRI starts to be packaged in when you have like a million dollars to spend and you can kind of get the whole store and Iri really gives you that sort of rest of market viewpoint. There may be some smaller IRR packages that I honestly can't speak to.

55:32
Holly Adrien
I'd say one of the key metrics that we, I didn't even say it specifically, but it should be pretty obvious is units per store per week, right? So if you can talk to, we are aware you can't share data that my other retailers with us of sharing appropriately of an average unit per store per week and thresholds you're hitting is pretty important data to tell your story. I'd say as you're building that story and understanding your business, that is a key metric in terms of, let's say, reach of customers if you go down the path to understand via 84 51. But units per store per week is also extremely important of a key metric that category managers are looking at as they're looking at their pogs and their sets and productivity that they need at the shelf.

56:12
Daniel Scharf
Great. And I mean, just the kind of scrappy way also probably everyone knows is just looking at your selling data through distributors and then using that to make a calculation. It's not going to be perfect, but it'll be directionally pretty helpful for people. Okay, and then another question we got here. So how does Kroger think about selecting products do you, when brands are submitting, should they really just tailor their selection for regional preferences or based on the incredible amount of data that Kroger has? Do you also do that for brands based on your knowledge of consumer preferences?

56:52
Erin Fasano
Maybe I can start the conversation here. Courtney and I always discuss where we think it's going to make the most sense. Based on her combination of knowledge of the inner workings of Kroger, am I going to be able to deliver it to the store on time in full? So there's sort of a supply chain component to the recommendation, but then also based on what we know about where the similar item or same item is selling elsewhere. So, for example, we recently launched a product that we know is a little bit expensive. We also know it's relatively niche.

57:21
Erin Fasano
And so went in with the recommendation for just a limited number KING super and a few other banners, sort of, again, kind of to your earlier example, Holly, we wanted to make the recommendation that we wanted to get our toe in the water together, see what works, and then push out from there. So I've always found it to be valuable to go in with an opinion on it, but you will definitely hear your opinion back from the category manager. If you ask for 3000 stores and they don't think you're ready, you will be assigned less distribution.

57:49
Holly Adrien
Yeah, I would say always have that idea of where you could perform best to prove yourself. I would say, honestly, we do run into situations with folks that are pretty green, that really are not prepared to have for broad distribution and to promote and to do things well. And I don't want to be a really Debbie downer, but you could imagine sometimes you might ruin your shot by reaching too far and not one meeting our customer needs and having in stock and full and the ability to meet those needs and the demand. So unfortunately, we've seen people do that.

58:24
Holly Adrien
So I think always having recommendation and then as you discussed with the category manager, because if you haven't had a good discussion on strategy and where they want to go, being able to pivot and learn together and look into it together, because yes, we will look at data, but as well, and CMS can look at divisions and look at additional information. They're using information from circana, from spins, from numerator, all kinds of information to look at decisions for their category. But again, everyone's time crunched. Even you say that seems kind of crazy.

58:56
Holly Adrien
You start eight months out, but think about some brands might have 70 submissions, or some CMS might have 70 submissions for just their one category, and then you're weeding through that and going through the best possible scenario that you want to create again for our customers and for growth that they have. So I think it's great to have a suggestion and to be honest with, if you could excel in one area, could just be out west, could be east at Kroger. But to be clear about that, to start, great.

59:25
Daniel Scharf
Okay, last question, then we'll wrap it asks you when you submit to Kroger to put in your expected velocity and how much business you're going to like, will your category manager sometimes tell you what that needs to be? Or if you're a first time at like, what does that number need to be? And let's just all acknowledge that it may be aspirational for the brand trying to show that, yeah, you should do business with us. No, it'll be good and we're going to work hard to support it. Or can you get into hot water if that number is too high and you set a bad expectation? So what's the right way to set units per store per week expectation with a category manager and understand where you need to be?

01:00:05
Holly Adrien
Court, I think Courtney want to take.

01:00:10
Erin Fasano
On that one slide every time.

01:00:11
Courtney Hodgdon
Population of one. I think $20 per store per week is a good threshold. I think at least in the categories I've been in. Well, cereal aside, because cereal is crazy, but $20 is sort of like the absolute bare minimum. And so back in, what is your price point? How many units per store per week? If you have a $10 item that's two units per store per week in every store, you might need to risk adjust it. Like, we only think we'll sell in 50% of any given stores a week. It is a balance. You don't want to look super shitty, but you also don't want to put in a number that you're going to double the category. So again, email me. Email Aaron. Work with your network. There has to be some intelligence and the category managers are probably not going to tell you.

01:00:55
Courtney Hodgdon
Some of them will, but most often or not, they have like 1000 emails in their inbox and they're going to be like, you should know this.

01:01:04
Daniel Scharf
That's a very good answer. I know that the best questions we get from people are the ones we're all kind of like. So thank you, everybody, for all the great questions. So we're going to wrap up honestly, I want to thank you guys. This is the all star team. This is an incredibly thoughtful and helpful webinar. One of the best that I can remember and I think it showed because the attendance was really off the charts for this. So hopefully we'll be able to do it again in the future. And anything each of you wants to add for anybody, like anyone can reach out to you for a particular kind of help or any good place to find you guys or good next step for people. Just as we wrap, I think we've.

01:01:42
Erin Fasano
All listed our contact info here, so please feel free to email us. You can find us on LinkedIn with any questions. And I guess everyone will be really on the edge of their seat. Holly, for the country schedule, I'll send.

01:01:56
Holly Adrien
That right after this to us for right here.

01:01:59
Erin Fasano
Yeah.

01:01:59
Daniel Scharf
All right, cool. Courtney. And can you just remind everybody what you do and things to reach out to you for?

01:02:07
Courtney Hodgdon
Oh, yeah. So I am a lone wolf broker. I partner with emerging brands and help know get into Kroger. So I partner with Aaron at Core Foods and Mellow Water and Chubby and Bowser, who are also a part of this community. So yeah, you guys basically have allowed me to be a flexible, full time mom. And.

01:02:29
Daniel Scharf
I just, I'll just add personally, I've heard really amazing things about Courtney from Erin, obviously also from Mellawater, who are just super happy working with mean. I've worked with brokers that do not know how to get things done at Kroger and don't know anybody and will just submit nationally. And Courtney's not one of those. Courtney knows people.

01:02:47
Courtney Hodgdon
Yeah. And I will say there's some other brokers on this call, like select brand CPG. Shout out to John Dematt. There's so many great people who are here locally in Cincinnati who are not going to scam you if you can't afford, like, we'll just tell you off the, you know, if you need a recommendation, by all means, happy to give you one.

01:03:04
Daniel Scharf
All right, thank you guys again so much. We will send out the recording. It's going to be available on our startup CPG Vimeo as well. So check our email for everybody. And hopefully everyone here is on the startup CPG slack. All of these incredible speakers are on there and you can join@startupcpg.com you just fill it out, it'll send you the slack link. And just again, thank you guys so much. This is one of the best presentations that we've had so far. So thank you.

01:03:28
Holly Adrien
Thank you. Thank you.

01:03:30
Daniel Scharf
All right, bye, everybody. Have a great day. Bye.